Janitsu.6284

Just wanted to pop in and say that having a dedicated healer in a fractal group already makes it "not meta".

> @"Armen.1483" said:

> > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > @"Armen.1483" said:

> > > > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > > > @"Armen.1483" said:

> > > > > The consumables while fun to use, were kinda gamebreaking too. It was making the game much easier. So it was a double edged sword. I am not quite sure what to think about that change up until now. For me only thing that changed was a tini bit of my gameplay.

> > > > >

> > > > > However as you brought up the CM100 issue. Well everything would be ok, but I found myself asking in lfg only condi firebrands as dps for that boss. Problem is not that there is too much breakbars, but that not all classes can deal with it _efficiently_ . My complaint is that I am locked into playing only condi firebrand there. Of course I am not saying you can't play anything else there and it is not only the Sanctuary that makes Firebrands so good there, but the fact that we see only firebrands there and 1 replacement with some scourge or something is considered something exotic and can even scare off people joing LFGs where they don't see a full firebrand group.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think if the consumables were still present, playing full team of firebrands with sanctuaries +alac would still be the way to go, but that would make playing other classes there less punishing. So in my opinion the removal of CC consumables hurt the accessisibility of CM100 for all classes except for firebrand.

> > > >

> > > > This is purely an issue with class balance and fractal design. Not a good excuse to enable consumables. If anything cFb has needed shaves for a long time. condi burst that nobody else has, ridiculous support for a dps build and lets not forget that it's one of those "melee" builds. What I mean is that it's widely considered melee, but it has much more room to hit stuff while avoiding mechanics than something like weaver. Then the sanctuary cc is the gravy on top.

> > >

> > > Well, while I agree that firebrand is very strong, it is not the **ONLY** burst condi class out there. Condi warrior, condi weaver and ofc condi soulbeast have similar burst because they also do dps with burning and bleeding, which are bursty by nature. For CM 100 you could easily be on par or outdps fbs with those classes, though they don't have the same CC, aegis spam and invuln the aoes utility. Nerfing firebrand too much will make it useless, cutting a lil damage will not change anything in the META though, as it is a rework issue. And if sometime firebrand gets out of the CM100 meta, newer and casual players will suffer the most, which is not a good thing imo.

> >

> > I disagree with your assessment on condi burst. Those classes do have a bit of a condi burst, but it is in no way comparable to FB's. Don't get me wrong, they can still compete for total damage in 100CM, but it's not because of their burst. That fight simply allows their short ramp up to happen. How often exactly do you see other condi classes in the other CMs? You almost never see them, and that's because the quicker cFB burst matters more there.

> >

> I guess you haven't tried it, it sounds like that firebrand's burst is better than other's because of the popularity (which is ofc the case for many situations cause of other factors), but it is not true. If there is no situation where we can prestack ashes of dust you get around 40-45 stacks of burning. Weaver does nearly as much burning + another 40ish bleeding which ends up in higher burst and does roughly 4k dps more of a burst than condi firebrand. If we take fractal cm100 scenario, pretty sure warrior with enough precision will outdps the CFB too even with prestacks. Same with ranger which has spirit dps buff to all his teammates which can't be calculated by arcdps compared to AoD. Firebrand's damage becomes really broken only when there are opportunities to reset F1s and ofc very easy to play + immense amount of utility which make it so popular in other fractals other than CM100. Yes condi weaver (and even tempest) are not popular in fractals, but they are better at dealing damage than firebrand. Soulbeast maybe not as much but not too far, and ofc you got a better version of power slb to choose from there, so we don't see much condi slb in other CMs for good. Same with berserker. To back up my statement here I invite you to compare the burst numbers of the mentioned classes on golem benchmark videos in youtube. I have personally tried them in fractals in my same static and can surely say that the burst difference is not very much different, some do a lil better, some worse, but it is pretty close, so clearly comparable.

>

> Now why you see such good numbers on condi firebrand in other fractals ? Same reason you see berserkers outdpsing the traditional DPSes. Breakbars aren't broken soon enough and long phases favor linear graph dps players. Try condi weaver in those groups you'll see it is even better than firebrand.

>

> We see firebrands and not weavers because everyone can play firebrand, but few can play weaver. And people who can play condi weaver are experienced enough to know that they shouldn't play condi on CM99 and will always choose a better option.

>

> Popularity is not a really solid argument here for that reason. Firebrand is very strong, but it is not a damage issue. Easy to play means conistency which ends up in artificial better damage that it's counterparts. CM100 though shows that very well, CFB gets outdpsed quite much there by other classes I mentioned, but those other classes are worse to play because firebrand brings so much more than damage.

>

> So I say it again, my whole point is about the accessibility. Firebrand nerfs are maybe needed, but it will affect only new players. No veteran player I know plays condi firebrand in non CM100 fractals seriously.

You are only comparing pure damage here but you are ignoring what the class brings and what it needs. Firebrand is self-sustained for might, fury and quickness with ease while blocking 1/3rd of all the damage skills coming their way with the hilarious amount of blocks it can provide. It can also heal, reflect and do quite a noticeable amount of CC with ease. It has pulls, it has AoE and single target damage. The targets can be moving a lot and firebrand can apply their burns with relatively OK numbers. Condi Weaver is bad in 100 CM simply due to the fact that Ai moves around a lot and doesn't stay in fire fields.

Also regarding your "veteran player" comment; I could name people with records in fractals that play condi Firebrand seriously in T4s on almost a daily basis due to how much easier and safer it is to the alternatives and how well it works across the board.

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > @"Henrik.7560" said:

> > the stupid thing is some of the consumables still work in fractals so we have to keep changing which ones we have every patch.

> >

> > Can they just disable ALL consumables in fractals and reduce the extremely cancerous massive defiance bars? like 3.5k in the new 100cm is ridiculous for 5 people considering we have to cc adds as well.

> >

> > It's getting nearly impossible to carry bad pugs without consumables, this is why people go toxic-elite mode with high KP / title requirements, because they can't carry with anets dumb changes.

>

> Thats a good thing though. it shouldnt be possible to carry useless players through the hardest group content.

It would be a good thing if the majority (or even a slightly bigger minority) of the player base had any idea about PvE.

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> Im one of the few who like sunqua peak because everything is avoidable and can be super fast with a decent group. Sirens reef has the annoying treasure mechanic with a forever lasting debuff. Would be so much better if mobility skills or portals would be allowed.

> Deepstone is ok until the endboss. Spending more time running than fighting is just annoying. Also wasted opportunity. Old dwarven ruins and we fight a boring human.

> > @"Fuchslein.8639" said:

> >Along with all these reworkings you can't do fractals+recs as casual within 30-40min anymore....

> Of course you can. As long as nobody runs pepega builds like MM necro, scourge or druid. You dont have to be a pro to use a fractal build.

>

>

I like new fractals when the group is at least half-decent. Sunqua Peak suffers from poor instabilities since there is already quite a bit of incoming damage that can one-shot you on higher difficulties. I believe this will make players avoid the fractals as they simply do NOT understand why they die. Adding to this discussion; instabilities are a terrible system when most of them are just annoying or have added damage threats for an encounter. BO is a bad instability because it is simply just a BD boost. They should be reworked or removed.

> @"DKRathalos.9625" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > You don't have to do what is meta. Create your own group if you don't see any to your liking in the LFG.

> Not the entire meta but at least HB and Alacren must be present to have convenient run, the other DPS doesn't matter what class as long as they know what they doing but the 2 roles is just... way to good to pass because those 2 bring a lot of utility to deal with some instability too.

Healing Firebrands literally take any convenience or comfort out of a run due to abysmal DPS and usually really low average player skill.

if you keep on disabling the consumables in fractals, for the love of god, make a proper tutorial about CCing and Exposed-debuff

consumables have always been a band-aid fix of what is prevalent in GW2; nothing of importance is taught to the new players and then they are incapable of doing even the simplest of tasks in group content

> @"Wolfb.7025" said:

> > @"Janitsu.6284" said:

> > > @"Wolfb.7025" said:

> > > SC uses the most (unrealistic, for mere mortals like me) optimal settings, and they focus on basically showing the top potential on every class on the game.

> > >

> > > Empower Allies is still a semi viable meta build, the warrior loses some dps but if the other 3-2 dps in your sub can pull out their benchmark numbers, its gonna end in an increased squad dps (sure, this never happens in non-static experienced squad anyways).

> > >

> > > Snowcrows does use empower allies in their group benchmarks on power bosses. They put their BS in a sepparate sub so the buff spreads through everyone on the squad.

> >

> > This is false for benchmarks. The reason for Empower Allies is simply that they used it for a long time and it would've been a lot of work to do all of the pre-existing benchmarks for the sake of changed build. Nowadays Empower Allies is used in a lot of the record runs, but the build still doesn't have it by default simply because it's not really worth it. SC uses realistic buffs and LN uses most buffs for the ease of benchmarking.

>

> SC boss benchmarks use a warrior with empower allies. You can see it on the logs on their videos.

Quite literally what I said.

> @"Wolfb.7025" said:

> SC uses the most (unrealistic, for mere mortals like me) optimal settings, and they focus on basically showing the top potential on every class on the game.

>

> Empower Allies is still a semi viable meta build, the warrior loses some dps but if the other 3-2 dps in your sub can pull out their benchmark numbers, its gonna end in an increased squad dps (sure, this never happens in non-static experienced squad anyways).

>

> Snowcrows does use empower allies in their group benchmarks on power bosses. They put their BS in a sepparate sub so the buff spreads through everyone on the squad.

This is false for benchmarks. The reason for Empower Allies is simply that they used it for a long time and it would've been a lot of work to do all of the pre-existing benchmarks for the sake of changed build. Nowadays Empower Allies is used in a lot of the record runs, but the build still doesn't have it by default simply because it's not really worth it. SC uses realistic buffs and LN uses most buffs for the ease of benchmarking.

> @"Carcharoth Lucian.1378" said:

> > @"Janitsu.6284" said:

> > > @"lare.5129" said:

> > > so what? skilled speedrunners don't have any tie to main community. One of our team yesterday make AC p3. It was 60 minutes. We know about skill differences.

> > > this is [qt], so it is not real example of common run.

> > > Looking that video can be wrong opinion about run, and how it look in real. Also I suggest for [qt] presended members put condition, that decree all stats 2-3x

> >

> > > @"lare.5129" said:

> > > so what? skilled speedrunners don't have any tie to main community. One of our team yesterday make AC p3. It was 60 minutes. We know about skill differences.

> > > this is [qt], so it is not real example of common run.

> > > Looking that video can be wrong opinion about run, and how it look in real. Also I suggest for [qt] presended members put condition, that decree all stats 2-3x

> >

> > Hard agreed with lare here ?????

>

> Why do you care?

> Btw, 1 hour to do AC p3 is for from common either...

Why do you care? And it's not. I am the source. ????

> @"lare.5129" said:

> so what? skilled speedrunners don't have any tie to main community. One of our team yesterday make AC p3. It was 60 minutes. We know about skill differences.

> this is [qt], so it is not real example of common run.

> Looking that video can be wrong opinion about run, and how it look in real. Also I suggest for [qt] presended members put condition, that decree all stats 2-3x

> @"lare.5129" said:

> so what? skilled speedrunners don't have any tie to main community. One of our team yesterday make AC p3. It was 60 minutes. We know about skill differences.

> this is [qt], so it is not real example of common run.

> Looking that video can be wrong opinion about run, and how it look in real. Also I suggest for [qt] presended members put condition, that decree all stats 2-3x

Hard agreed with lare here ?????

> @"lare.5129" said:

> they not remove it, they forbid get it more for new and old. But they not removed.

So yes, essentially removed it from the game apart from the old and existing ones. Therefore, I consider it removed due to the fact that it's **literally** unobtainable.

> they not remove all cc consumables, so they remove only part of them.

They removed them due to their faulty reasoning. It stands to show that they will likely remove them as they pop up.

> may be Anet say that this cc bar should be not touched ? use survive abilities or etc?

Why add a Defiance bar that should not be broken? Doesn't make any sense from a developer, game designer or player perspective at all.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Janitsu.6284" said:

> > Raids are EXTREMELY trivial and have no actually hard content once you've cleared them once or twice.

> For a lot of people it's more than just once or twice. Also, the key problem lies in the part "once you've cleared".

> Yes, obviously raids become easy once you have got to the point when they're easy. The issue lies in what happens _before_ you get to that point.

They become extremely easy after two clears. They are very easy prior to that if you just read up on the mechanics and practise a class to some extent. And you don't have to do your builds for some reason ??????

`#RepublicansForConsumables ??????`

Anet's decisions to remove KPs and consumables just shows how little they actually know about their own game and its systems. If they are not bringing anything new to the LFG tool or adjust CC bars in 100 CM, it's quite literally a confirmation of my statement. ??????

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > @"Yellow Rainbow.6142" said:

> > guard guard guard guard rev exclusive combo is definitely asking for nerf to ground on next update :D

>

> Yes but this has only indirect to do with the consumables cFBs dps is just insane. Most DPS numbers on the golems are measured with a good bit of DPS remaining from the burst phase and doesn't take the mechanics to play into account . cFBs can keep up it DPS nearly perfectly + it the only condi build which can burst.

>

> Top DPS in my last 100 cm run was a cFB with 29.6K dps after lowering the dps several times otherwise otherwise we would wipe in the sorrow phase. 32k and more are possible and this with out having an HFB with offensive traits&skills with it you get really close to 40K(!) dps

>

> Now cc became a huge problem because the faster you are the more sorrows you need to cc.

>

> In comparison basically all other condi dps builds do 21k in 100 cm(as top player) and in average 17k which is nearly half the dps of the cFB

>

Your numbers regarding other builds are way off. I've seen other builds perform to the same degree, or even outperform firebrand with ease. ??????

If you have good sites like Snow Crows and you are not using them, you are already handicapping yourself for nothing. Raids are EXTREMELY trivial and have no actually hard content once you've cleared them once or twice.

If you refuse to use the tools available to you, don't complain about them. You don't have to. Just acknowledge your decision. ??????

what the previous poster said

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Maybe stop using condi fb and use condi reaper, condi ele ,condi ranger or better condi classes with more cc the point of the block was to force build changes maybe use hammer instead of scepter

Yeah broskis just stop having fun in the game and play trash ass garbage classes and specs. ??????

The reason why no one should share anything with this community is the fact that they legit leak everything to the devs that are not doing any services to their playerbase lmao. ?????

ArenaNet and balancing is almost as iconic of a duo as Renegade and build templates. Looking forward to not pugging anymore! ?✌✌

> @"Carcharoth Lucian.1378" said:

> > @"Janitsu.6284" said:

> > But Anet said on stream that the best way to check someone's competence in fractals is by gear checking them? I don't see an issue since this game has a built-in gear checker and allows said thing in their ToS. Or at least so I'd expect since those comments were made.

>

> There is no "built-in gear checker" and it will probably never the case : it's against the tos right now, even if a dev said that.

Yes, I am aware. My post was satirical because I have little to no faith in Anet ever fixing these actual issues, rather than trying to make the game as casual as possible.

But Anet said on stream that the best way to check someone's competence in fractals is by gear checking them? I don't see an issue since this game has a built-in gear checker and allows said thing in their ToS. Or at least so I'd expect since those comments were made.

Firebrand is a weak healing build.

Also, Chronos can easily AFK and give out both alacrity and quickness if they so wish. What's so hard about renegade, chrono or firebrand is dealing adequate DPS while giving out those boons.

I wholeheartedly agree. I think it's really nasty how these people are destroying the lfg raiding scene with their evil intentions. Other site that I absolutely DESPISE is the Discrubtize (dT) website. People are not letting me play my celestial druid dps build. Little do they know, I can actually EASILY outdps anyone (if they have gg'd before starting the boss).

Keep up the good fight brotha! ????✌???

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > @"Oldyoung.6109" said:

> > > > > > KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

> > > > >

> > > > > and lie with chat code generator.

> > > > >

> > > > > Truth is that, people peaked in their knowledge and skill at around 20 ESS. Most players experienced the largest growth between 1 ESS and about 20 ESS. The difference in player skill between a 20 ESS player and a 200 ESS player was so marginally low that it didn't really matter aside from if you really cared that much about completing your nightly fractal run a few minutes faster than normal. And yeah, that mentality brought in a lot of really really unnecessary toxicity actually.

> > > > >

> > > > > @"Fir.7932" Mark my words, having no ESS KP for this big fake imminence front will reduce toxicity in very significant ways.

> > > >

> > > > As mentioned in the other thread, the second biggest skill gap is between playing with and without a healer, not in being slightly faster in pressing buttons between 20 ESS and 100 ESS.

> > >

> > > And again, it seems like you encourage the idea that a player couldn't play with no healer unless they had some crazy amount of ESS, which is simply not true at all.

> > >

> > > If players were trained with no healer from the get go, they'd just get used to it, like they do with anything else in any other video game.

> > >

> > > Considering that a player was telling the truth and not fake pinging, KPs do speak for a certain amount of experience, yes. But there is an awful lot of this KP thing in specifically GW2 fractals, that is a big fat illusion of grandeur.

> > >

> > > Sorry it's just true.

> >

> > No, I am saying that it requires a ceratin amount of practice, one that will almost never happen at sub 100 KP groups. Even beyond that, many players never try or want to get good enough to play without a healer. As such, at 300+ KP level, players are communicating a specific type of playstyle, and gating for players who want to play the same way. Not gating clear experience.

>

> Yeah

>

> I'm just pointing out, you'd be surprised that there ARE people who want to play at that level who could play at that level, but they can't because they only have 20 ESS and the older players gate them, rather than teach them in a single run how to do it.

>

> It may have taken the first gen of fractal players 300 KPs to be able to play at that level because they had to engineer the knowledge on their own. But now that gen 1 is at that level, they could be teaching that knowledge to players and allowing them access to it much much earlier than 300 KPs, but instead they choose to imagine that it would impossible for anyone to keep up with them unless those players also had 300 KPs.

>

> Consider the idea behind that.

What about the older players who do not want to teach newer players and want to get their dailies done in one easy go? I am not saying that teaching isn't a good idea and I am all for teaching people, but most of the time it's not worth it for a few reasons:

1. people who want to learn only want to learn to a certain extent where they are comfortable in the dailies (therefore, usually don't want to consider doing fractals without a healer for example)

2. it takes a lot of time to actually get people comfortable on their prestacking, precasting and openers. It takes a lot of pulls and a lot of time; something I want to avoid in dailies

3. you need consistency for fractals, if you are teaching someone, in ideal world you'd be running with them daily for a few weeks. If the setting changes too often, it sort of waters down the teaching. This is why teaching pugs is rather annoying and why I'd recommend training discords and guild for that reason

I think that it is important to acknowledge the fact that some people just want simple, easy dailies the way that they want them. KP used to (to some extent) signal how people want to do them and at what skill level. Was it perfect? No, not by any means. Was it okay-ish at what it did? Yes. Since there was no alternative to it really.