Rhein.8197
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Posts posted by Rhein.8197
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Heads up, you can purchase the item needed from the Forge Master in Thunderhead Peaks.
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> @"Alimar.8760" said:
> As some of you have pointed out and also with a guild member of mine. That one potential and totally understandable reason why Istan was changed the way it was changed, was because people were using the farm to convert to gems. Thus, Anet was losing out on money from people who would normally purchase gems who instead spent a few hundred hours in Istan to buy whatever gems they needed.
>
> It makes sense, a sad sense, but it does make sense.
I agree with this, although I think it's a combination of using the gold for gems and also using gold as an alternative to "farming" (i.e. player earns gold in Istan and buys wood they might need that they would otherwise have to run around and cut down). This is a good example of what I and other players here have referred to as "grind" because finding nodes is repetitious and boring. if you need hundreds of one wood to level up a profession or craft something, earning the gold in Istan to purchase the wood is more fun (for some players) than farming nodes. You can earn gold (and wood) other ways, but the Istan meta is one way, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can even still earn gold in Istan 2.0, just perhaps not as much as before.
If ANet didn't want this type of zerg to form, then they wouldn't allow it in the first place at all.
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> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > > > > You're going to have to define grind then because all ascended gear can be crafted simply by the mats you earn playing the game (i.e., not needing to grind anything) or purchase off the TP. If you grind for mats, it's because you CHOOSE that path to get the mats for the gear you want, not because you NEED to play that way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok. Let's say you just play the game for materials...aren't you then just grinding different events, or farming?
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe ... but that's and odd reason to play a game. If I want to just 'farm' a material ... I would get a second job and 'farm' money. I play games to have to fun ... lucky for us, in this game, you can do that without resorting to 'farming' materials to get things you want.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, you are going to have to get into a discussion about what 'grinding' means to you if you want to argue you have to grind in this game to get something like Ascended gear. I'm also under the impression that if you think this game is forcing you to grind, your experience in MMO's is pretty limited.
> > > > >
> > > > > So how do you define what 'grinding" is?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > How I define grind is irrelevant.
> > >
> > > No it's pretty relevant because from where I sit, you don't need to grind to get most of the loot in this game. So if you are going to say it's a grind and that's related to not good parts of the game or changes to it, you better be clear about what you mean.
> >
> > I will not spell out examples of grind in GW2 or the logic behind farming Istan for gold any more than I have already. There are reddit posts you can search to get player opinions on how to manage the material and gold requirements of various endeavours and many of them will point to participating in metas. If that isn't satisfactory, I will assume you are being disingenuous, or just aren't into crafting/collections/fractals/etc? It's also derailing the thread (we're not talking about the meaning of grind).
> >
> > I did see someone say you can raid with Exotics and that it's been done. Okay? You're not going to convince people to stop crafting ascended weapons and armor.
> >
> > Moreover, as a final note: Nothing about the Istan change will affect how the player who farmed Istan will operate. The same players will continue using metas to get gold and materials until ANet sufficiently nerfs them all down. I guess you can spend the additional time between now and the final nerf wondering to yourself why people ever farmed Istan for gold since I can't adequately explain it.
> >
> Right, you want to avoid a discussion about 'grinding' in GW2 because it's a non-starter. I would back peddle too if I started to make claims that related to how you have to 'grind' in GW2 to get things you want because that's simply not true. I'm not here to convince people they don't need ascended gear but I'm going to challenge the implication that you need to 'grind' any map in the game to do it, including Istan.
>
> There isn't any question about it; people in Istan farmed there because it's scrub level play for pro-level rewards, contrary to the guy trying to convince us all that people prefer Istan because it provides a complex and unique socially interactive gameplay and not because it has the highest rewards for zerg farmers. I know when I'm being fed a load of bull.
I actually never argued that Istan has a social element, although it does by default (there's squad play and map chat). Are you confusing me with someone else?
How have I avoided a discussion about it? We've literally been talking about it for 10 posts. There are grind elements in GW2, you just don't have to grind to "win" the game which is what grinding traditionally implies.
And in this post you revealed your true position: *you view Istan farmers as scrubs who are undeserving of pro level rewards*. Are people who whip out their credit cards for the gem store pro level? Or is it just people who play the way you want? It doesn't matter to me. I think people should be able to play however they want as long as it isn't breaking the game. Istan was not breaking the game, simply put. As I said, reducing Istan won't change anything anyway.
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> @"Zaklex.6308" said:
> > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Empanda.4617" said:
> > > > > > > > > So ok I understand why you'd want to nerf istan but I'd just like to say Anet, you released the new chapter, full of bugs and crashes. You haven't fixed THAT yet, but you want to change istan, a map grind that people actually enjoy. Now its hard not to be salty about this after experiencing the new chapter and all the bugs, glitches and crashes. Are you POSITIVE, you want to change istan before you fix that new map and story instances where people can get stuck in rocks and crystals in the story instances, dwarven plates don't drop all the time or drop multiple time for the same person messing it up for the other players who need it? Are you POSITIVE you want to change it before you change the fact that you've released broken material that you expect us to be ok with? Like don't get me wrong the istan grind is OP, but at least its not SO broken it's not enjoyable like the new map is. I think you should look at the bad broken map and story you've released before dislocating hundreds of players from their happy grinding area. Now as a coder I know its not that simple, but as a player I have to say this isn't the best way to make your players happy at the moment.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I know this may not be the most popular opinion either.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This 1000000x. Some of the bugs are just unacceptable, especially given the lack of response to certain bugs (I'm starting to think the DB weapon issues will never be resolved). And I think it's a shame that someone has to tag their posts with "I know this may not be the most popular opinion". Like, why is that? Because the player base is largely just as apathetic as ANet about the game's issues because they're jaded by years of bugs? Whatever. It's sad to see anyone discussing Istan when the latest content is simply not in order.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So a bug that exists for hardly 2 weeks makes you think it will never get fixed? Something they can't just activate a switch on that will magically fix it? Really? They've acknowledged several of the bugs and they're working on them. This is useless doomsaying though.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Actually, that was hyperbole, but since you asked: It's within the real of possibility. What evidence do you have that the bugs will be fixed? If so, which bugs, and why?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ouch ... that's harsh. We know bugs get fixed. Which ones? Just speculation but the ones that are most harmful to the game most likely. I mean, lets not talk like Anet just lets bugs just linger around.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > "We sincerely appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Currently, we are aware of this issue and are going to continue investigating. *Unfortunately, we currently do not have an ETA on a solution*. Be sure to keep your eyes on any upcoming patch notes for hotfixes! *I'm afraid we not able to grant the item or achievement*, but we sincerely appreciate your patience and understanding while we work this out!"
> > > >
> > > > This is an example of a response for DB weapons bug. Sounds like lingering to me. Also, I bet they can't grant the necessary items or achievements.
> > >
> > > I won't debate with you what lingering means. If you think Anet doesn't care about bugs and just let's them hang around because of that, it's because you want to believe it. There are lots of examples of bugs that Anet did fix, so the idea they just randomly let some linger is disingenuous.
> >
> > There's no need to debate it because I am (and have been) completely honest about the fact I believe they launched the product (that is, the latest LS installment) without testing it and figured they would have the players debug it for them (leading to long waits for "solutions"). You heard it here first. I'm not trying to sound harsh, or even angry, but definitely concise and honest.
> >
> > Also, IMO, there's also no debating the fact that given the messy launch, fixing Istan to maintain some daily quality of life concept the company has going on is, at the very least, worthy* of some eye rolling.
>
> Rule #1 of testing, it is impossible to test for every conceivable bug that might happen...there is no reasonable way to replicate the way the entire player base plays a game. There will be players that do things no one thought of during testing and they will break something that appeared to work as intended...this actually applies to all software but primarily to games. People that expect bug free game releases are delusional, there will always be some bugs, it's just the nature of the beast...the most you can do is hope to minimize them. ArenaNet has a testing team, they have QA(if you ever watch the Guild Chat episodes on YouTube some of them have even been on those broadcasts).
>
> Then there's the level of severity of the bug, some bugs will never get fixed because they're so insignificant they don't harm game play, others will be a little higher priority, but still not high enough to warrant a fix within a set amount of time, and others are so game breaking they need to be fixed 'yesterday', but of course until they find the solution 'yesterday' has to wait.
This is a nontechnical, common misconception unfortunately. There are many examples of bugs in the LS story release that have nothing to do with "how players did things" (although as you pointed out, *some* do). There are basic features in the LS release (types of features we've seen before in Guild Wars 2) that are broken and indicate that there is an issue with the code. I am working on a bachelor's in CS and have programmed in Java, C++, Python, SQL, and more. I don't need a course on the "number one rules" of testing. The development team simply didn't have it together for this release. If you quickly go over the forums for some of the bug topics regarding LS5 you can see exactly what I'm talking about. If you are in game development or software engineering, I'm concerned.
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> @"Gop.8713" said:
> > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > @"Gop.8713" said:
> > > That doesn't seem to make sense, from their perspective. It would just be horribly inefficient for them to leave it to CS to go through and individually fix each account. But either way it's not really time sensitive. I try really hard to avoid sending tickets so I can wait until it is clear that is the only recourse . . .
> >
> > Well yes, that's my point. It's kind of unbelievable they rolled out a patch knowing all the players who had the deeds complete already still wouldn't be able to finish the collection. But they did.
>
> Well it wasn't entirely useless either, in that it prevents further damage at least. Now there are a finite number of accounts that are affected, and though that number is probably fairly large at least it won't be increasing moving forward. So they've fixed the initial problem, now they just have to do the cleanup . . .
>
> I'd be more frustrated if this prevented completion of the collection or something like that, but it just prevents crafting the asc focus so it's not a huge deal to me. It's mostly just annoying to have the unfinished cheeve hanging out there . . .
I agree with you, except that ANet has needlessly stayed silent and dodged commenting on this.
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> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > > You're going to have to define grind then because all ascended gear can be crafted simply by the mats you earn playing the game (i.e., not needing to grind anything) or purchase off the TP. If you grind for mats, it's because you CHOOSE that path to get the mats for the gear you want, not because you NEED to play that way.
> > > >
> > > > Ok. Let's say you just play the game for materials...aren't you then just grinding different events, or farming?
> > >
> > > Maybe ... but that's and odd reason to play a game. If I want to just 'farm' a material ... I would get a second job and 'farm' money. I play games to have to fun ... lucky for us, in this game, you can do that without resorting to 'farming' materials to get things you want.
> > >
> > > Again, you are going to have to get into a discussion about what 'grinding' means to you if you want to argue you have to grind in this game to get something like Ascended gear. I'm also under the impression that if you think this game is forcing you to grind, your experience in MMO's is pretty limited.
> > >
> > > So how do you define what 'grinding" is?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > How I define grind is irrelevant.
>
> No it's pretty relevant because from where I sit, you don't need to grind to get most of the loot in this game. So if you are going to say it's a grind and that's related to not good parts of the game or changes to it, you better be clear about what you mean.
I will not spell out examples of grind in GW2 or the logic behind farming Istan for gold any more than I have already. There are reddit posts you can search to get player opinions on how to manage the material and gold requirements of various endeavours and many of them will point to participating in metas. If that isn't satisfactory, I will assume you are being disingenuous, or just aren't into crafting/collections/fractals/etc? It's also derailing the thread (we're not talking about the meaning of grind).
I did see someone say you can raid with Exotics and that it's been done. Okay? You're not going to convince people to stop crafting ascended weapons and armor.
Moreover, as a final note: Nothing about the Istan change will affect how the player who farmed Istan will operate. The same players will continue using metas to get gold and materials until ANet sufficiently nerfs them all down. I guess you can spend the additional time between now and the final nerf wondering to yourself why people ever farmed Istan for gold since I can't adequately explain it.
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> @"Gop.8713" said:
> That doesn't seem to make sense, from their perspective. It would just be horribly inefficient for them to leave it to CS to go through and individually fix each account. But either way it's not really time sensitive. I try really hard to avoid sending tickets so I can wait until it is clear that is the only recourse . . .
Well yes, that's my point. It's kind of unbelievable they rolled out a patch knowing all the players who had the deeds complete already still wouldn't be able to finish the collection. But they did.
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> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > You're going to have to define grind then because all ascended gear can be crafted simply by the mats you earn playing the game (i.e., not needing to grind anything) or purchase off the TP. If you grind for mats, it's because you CHOOSE that path to get the mats for the gear you want, not because you NEED to play that way.
> >
> > Ok. Let's say you just play the game for materials...aren't you then just grinding different events, or farming?
>
> Maybe ... but that's and odd reason to play a game. If I want to just 'farm' a material ... I would get a second job and 'farm' money. I play games to have to fun ... lucky for us, in this game, you can do that without resorting to 'farming' materials to get things you want.
>
> Again, you are going to have to get into a discussion about what 'grinding' means to you if you want to argue you have to grind in this game to get something like Ascended gear. I'm also under the impression that if you think this game is forcing you to grind, your experience in MMO's is pretty limited.
>
> So how do you define what 'grinding" is?
>
>
How I define grind is irrelevant. I already stated the reasons why people use Istan for gold and the evidence is supported by the existence of the Istan farm (or even the existence of the topic itself) as well as other comments you see here. This change is all about taking gold from players and putting dollars in the Gem Store. What you define as fun or how you want to play doesn't serve this topic in any way.
Edit: When I said "ANet forces you to grind" that is a common way of using it to suggest that the material and gold requirements of many post 80 collections/weapon armor sets/mounts/etc. are too high. They're intentionally high so that you spend more time. getting it.
One side of the argument wants people to be able to play how they want. The other side doesn't, for whatever subjective reasons (you can find them all in the thread yourself). All suppositions aside (including my supposition that their motive is to make more money through dollars spent at the Gem Store) ultimately don't matter when you really get down to the basic argument here.
Also I see people are still talking about lingering lol. That's undeniable too. ANet's really out here patching things and not retroactively helping players who were bugged! Give me a break. Lingering is a nice way of putting it.
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Guys, ArenaNet definitely knows their patch didn't address players who already completed the achievement. The patch notes don't even imply the issue was retroactively fixed. The patch notes implied that, moving forward, players can now do the collection successfully. In other words, they want you to do it on your alt or wait around forever for (possibly nothing) something to happen.
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> @"Rose Solane.1027" said:
> Clayton, Can I ask a related question? Until yesterday evening (so before the patch) I always got the Gravelling room as one of the rooms I needed to go through on my way to the end room. Yesterday evening (after the patch) I got to the end room without having to fight the Gravelling. And as there is a point of interest in that room and this was the only character without map completion for Thunderhead Peaks that was inconvenient. Is this a bug or was I "lucky" so far on my other characters to always got the Gravelling room?
You were just lucky. The rooms you get each day may be different sets. Keep trying and you will get it in your rotation eventually. This isn't a bug, thankfully.
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> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> You're going to have to define grind then because all ascended gear can be crafted simply by the mats you earn playing the game (i.e., not needing to grind anything) or purchase off the TP. If you grind for mats, it's because you CHOOSE that path to get the mats for the gear you want, not because you NEED to play that way.
Ok. Let's say you just play the game for materials...aren't you then just grinding different events, or farming?
If players thought that just playing the game, traversing Tyria, was time well spent then they wouldn't grind Istan in the first place. Grinding Istan is done because the material and gold requirements for commonly desired things, like a Griffon mount being 250g for example, are demanding. You might say "but why is this optional content so important"? Because it's clearly what defines the post 80 experience: upgrading your character and items to make the repetitive endgame enjoyable. You may also say "Griffons should be 250 gold, that makes them more rare and unique" but clearly the majority of players don't find that affordable/reasonable or they wouldn't grind metas to obtain it. As I said earlier, new content is slow, therefore people start doing collections and crafting.
You've already heard it in this thread echoed: World events are not rewarding enough. And the elimination of Istan just means something else will be "exploited". This is just another way of saying required mats and gold are too high. All of this is just leading back to the Gem Store. If GW2 ends up like you suggest it should be, players will become exhausted by depending on RNG/farming for everything, and end up buying more nodes/boosters/gold to compensate. Hopefully in the future when GW2 finally reaches that terrible point where it's the only option left to craft a decent ascended set/get a griffon/whatever, sensible people not opt to spend their $$$ or 6 months trying to earn enough gold and mats just to craft an ascended set (or heaven forbid some other collection), and drop the game if necessary.
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> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> I don't even know how to respond to that .. Anet fixes bugs and if you play the game so you have to 'grind' by running around like a sheep in Istan, that's your choice. Certainly nothing in the game REQUIRES that behaviour. I won't tell anyone how to play but if that's how you interact with the game, I don't think you understand the game you play ... which is why you don't get why Istan change is a good one.
>
> Bugs they don't fix immediately aren't there with the intention to linger as a conspiracy theory to keep you from playing and enjoying the game. I don't care if you don't spend money or not, but I do care if you're just going to be salty because you experience bugs or make assumptions about how Anet allocates their resources. you don't know the division of labour, so to assume one thing is happening at the expense of another isn't a valid complaint.
Many unique weapons and armors are gated behind a grind-- whether by time, materials, or gold. You can say its optional to get ascended gear, but ascended gear is important for strategic group play. This is only one example that makes your point null. Grind is an inevitable part of GW2, and the nerf to Istan only serves to knock out one way people are grinding effectively. You say you can't respond, but you did? "You don't understand the game you're playing"...you're basically just saying we should be okay with ANet steamrolling Istan so that play is diversified more across Tyria...which I literally already went over.
I don't have a conspiracy theory. I just said ANet assumes we will roll alts to redo content, which is true. ANet does fix bugs, just not all bugs. You should care if players spend money, without money the game doesn't exist. Not salty, just stating the obvious.
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> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Empanda.4617" said:
> > > > > > > > > So ok I understand why you'd want to nerf istan but I'd just like to say Anet, you released the new chapter, full of bugs and crashes. You haven't fixed THAT yet, but you want to change istan, a map grind that people actually enjoy. Now its hard not to be salty about this after experiencing the new chapter and all the bugs, glitches and crashes. Are you POSITIVE, you want to change istan before you fix that new map and story instances where people can get stuck in rocks and crystals in the story instances, dwarven plates don't drop all the time or drop multiple time for the same person messing it up for the other players who need it? Are you POSITIVE you want to change it before you change the fact that you've released broken material that you expect us to be ok with? Like don't get me wrong the istan grind is OP, but at least its not SO broken it's not enjoyable like the new map is. I think you should look at the bad broken map and story you've released before dislocating hundreds of players from their happy grinding area. Now as a coder I know its not that simple, but as a player I have to say this isn't the best way to make your players happy at the moment.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I know this may not be the most popular opinion either.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This 1000000x. Some of the bugs are just unacceptable, especially given the lack of response to certain bugs (I'm starting to think the DB weapon issues will never be resolved). And I think it's a shame that someone has to tag their posts with "I know this may not be the most popular opinion". Like, why is that? Because the player base is largely just as apathetic as ANet about the game's issues because they're jaded by years of bugs? Whatever. It's sad to see anyone discussing Istan when the latest content is simply not in order.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So a bug that exists for hardly 2 weeks makes you think it will never get fixed? Something they can't just activate a switch on that will magically fix it? Really? They've acknowledged several of the bugs and they're working on them. This is useless doomsaying though.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Actually, that was hyperbole, but since you asked: It's within the real of possibility. What evidence do you have that the bugs will be fixed? If so, which bugs, and why?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ouch ... that's harsh. We know bugs get fixed. Which ones? Just speculation but the ones that are most harmful to the game most likely. I mean, lets not talk like Anet just lets bugs just linger around.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > "We sincerely appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Currently, we are aware of this issue and are going to continue investigating. *Unfortunately, we currently do not have an ETA on a solution*. Be sure to keep your eyes on any upcoming patch notes for hotfixes! *I'm afraid we not able to grant the item or achievement*, but we sincerely appreciate your patience and understanding while we work this out!"
> > > >
> > > > This is an example of a response for DB weapons bug. Sounds like lingering to me. Also, I bet they can't grant the necessary items or achievements.
> > >
> > > I won't debate with you what lingering means. If you think Anet doesn't care about bugs and just let's them hang around because of that, it's because you want to believe it. There are lots of examples of bugs that Anet did fix, so the idea they just randomly let some linger is disingenuous.
> >
> > There's no need to debate it because I am (and have been) completely honest about the fact I believe they launched the product (that is, the latest LS installment) without testing it and figured they would have the players debug it for them (leading to long waits for "solutions"). You heard it here first. I'm not trying to sound harsh, or even angry, but definitely concise and honest.
> >
> > Also, IMO, there's also no debating the fact that given the messy launch, fixing Istan to maintain some daily quality of life concept the company has going on is, at the very least, worthy* of some eye rolling.
>
> Believing you are honest doesn't have any correlation to whether Anet fixes bugs or let's them linger. Yes, there were noticeably more bugs in the recent release. Again, that has no correlation to whether Anet fixes bugs or let's them linger. If you want to convince yourself Anet is lackadaisical about fixing bugs, I can't change that. But there is lots of evidence that suggests Anet does fix bugs, including the patch we have today. A few that take longer to fix or are not a priority to fix right away is not 'lingering'.
>
> > @"Jeknar.6184" said:
> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > @"Jeknar.6184" said:
> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > > I mean, lets not talk like Anet just lets bugs just linger around.
> > > >
> > > > Dolyaks in WvW get desync'ed of their position when returning to camps since 2012...
> > >
> > > That's not proof Anet doesn't address bugs though.
> >
> > Indeed it's not... It would be unfair for me to say Anet **NEVER** adress any bugs in the game... But it's also unfair to say Anet **ALWAYS** fix the bugs in the game when there are 6 years bugs lingering about...
>
> Glad I never claimed they ALWAYS fix the bugs. I stated before a very reasonable and sensible approach to how bugs are dealt with. They likely get assigned priority based on how badly they impact the game. The only reason I can think of that people want to rub Anet's nose in the dirt because of bugs is because they are salty and bitter ... or they don't get that the people that deal with the bugs are probably not the same people that make content. So when people QQ that Anet is making new content instead of fixing bugs, they clearly have no idea what they are talking about.
GW2 is largely a free experience that doesn't churn out new content as often as its competitors. With a limited amount of items to collect and story to do, achievements, gold requirements, and other grind-inducing elements are incorporated into the gameplay to give it more lifespan. As a result, players look to farms like Istan (which are optional) to help reduce the grind. Keep in mind Istan *does not* easily eliminate grind, it just means you'll spend more time doing one thing and other events will be ignored, which means Tyria doesn't function as intended given the "Dynamic Events" concept GW2 relies upon. GW2 developers want to have it all. They don't want to charge money for new content (so we could have more, less buggy content maybe), so they make you grind for content, and they want to control the way you do it.
The expectations we set for all of these issues (bug fixes, daily life cycle strategies, farm killing, etc.) are totally subjective. As you astutely pointed out, these different parts of the game are handled by different teams. It's up to Anet to move cohesively and efficiently-- not players. Players issue feedback regarding how much that goal is being met in the form of money and attention. I don't honestly care who handles PvE farming and who programs the fixes. It isn't unreasonable at all to be disappointed with the way LS5 is being handled and point out that the Istan nerf could've at least waited.
You bring up the patch we had today and it took me 2 seconds to find a fix that doesn't work for everyone. It's just a fix for players who haven't started the particular weapon collection yet. If ANet's teams are so disorganized that they didn't anticipate this problem in advance, then that's on them. Having moderators run around the forums acting surprised doesn't help either. The patch today tells me ANet is basically interested in you rolling alts to experience their content after bugs happen (which they actually explicitly told me when I couldn't access the new map a week ago). Like, does this game have ANY in game moderators or just forum moderators?
Edit: Also, you're correct about the correlation. But that wasn't the point. The point of that statement was simply that I'm well aware of my bias and my definition of lingering should be abundantly clear by now and also be interpreted as fairly negative.
My reaction to all of this continues to be the same: whatever. I'm done spending any money on GW2 for now.
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edited: this got patched :D
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This is one of the bugs I've been complaining about in other areas of the forum. The only way I was able to bypass it was via Teleport to Friend. If you don't know someone, just ask around in Lion's Arch or LFG. If you don't have Teleport to Friend, then I guess you're screwed and I don't know how to help you. ANet definitely didn't help me at all when I put in a support ticket.
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> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:
> > > > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > > > @"Empanda.4617" said:
> > > > > > > So ok I understand why you'd want to nerf istan but I'd just like to say Anet, you released the new chapter, full of bugs and crashes. You haven't fixed THAT yet, but you want to change istan, a map grind that people actually enjoy. Now its hard not to be salty about this after experiencing the new chapter and all the bugs, glitches and crashes. Are you POSITIVE, you want to change istan before you fix that new map and story instances where people can get stuck in rocks and crystals in the story instances, dwarven plates don't drop all the time or drop multiple time for the same person messing it up for the other players who need it? Are you POSITIVE you want to change it before you change the fact that you've released broken material that you expect us to be ok with? Like don't get me wrong the istan grind is OP, but at least its not SO broken it's not enjoyable like the new map is. I think you should look at the bad broken map and story you've released before dislocating hundreds of players from their happy grinding area. Now as a coder I know its not that simple, but as a player I have to say this isn't the best way to make your players happy at the moment.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I know this may not be the most popular opinion either.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This 1000000x. Some of the bugs are just unacceptable, especially given the lack of response to certain bugs (I'm starting to think the DB weapon issues will never be resolved). And I think it's a shame that someone has to tag their posts with "I know this may not be the most popular opinion". Like, why is that? Because the player base is largely just as apathetic as ANet about the game's issues because they're jaded by years of bugs? Whatever. It's sad to see anyone discussing Istan when the latest content is simply not in order.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So a bug that exists for hardly 2 weeks makes you think it will never get fixed? Something they can't just activate a switch on that will magically fix it? Really? They've acknowledged several of the bugs and they're working on them. This is useless doomsaying though.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Actually, that was hyperbole, but since you asked: It's within the real of possibility. What evidence do you have that the bugs will be fixed? If so, which bugs, and why?
> > >
> > > Ouch ... that's harsh. We know bugs get fixed. Which ones? Just speculation but the ones that are most harmful to the game most likely. I mean, lets not talk like Anet just lets bugs just linger around.
> > >
> >
> > "We sincerely appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Currently, we are aware of this issue and are going to continue investigating. *Unfortunately, we currently do not have an ETA on a solution*. Be sure to keep your eyes on any upcoming patch notes for hotfixes! *I'm afraid we not able to grant the item or achievement*, but we sincerely appreciate your patience and understanding while we work this out!"
> >
> > This is an example of a response for DB weapons bug. Sounds like lingering to me. Also, I bet they can't grant the necessary items or achievements.
>
> I won't debate with you what lingering means. If you think Anet doesn't care about bugs and just let's them hang around because of that, it's because you want to believe it. There are lots of examples of bugs that Anet did fix, so the idea they just randomly let some linger is disingenuous.
There's no need to debate it because I am (and have been) completely honest about the fact I believe they launched the product (that is, the latest LS installment) without testing it and figured they would have the players debug it for them (leading to long waits for "solutions"). You heard it here first. I'm not trying to sound harsh, or even angry, but definitely concise and honest.
Also, IMO, there's also no debating the fact that given the messy launch, fixing Istan to maintain some daily quality of life concept the company has going on is, at the very least, worthy* of some eye rolling.
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> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:
> > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > @"Empanda.4617" said:
> > > > > So ok I understand why you'd want to nerf istan but I'd just like to say Anet, you released the new chapter, full of bugs and crashes. You haven't fixed THAT yet, but you want to change istan, a map grind that people actually enjoy. Now its hard not to be salty about this after experiencing the new chapter and all the bugs, glitches and crashes. Are you POSITIVE, you want to change istan before you fix that new map and story instances where people can get stuck in rocks and crystals in the story instances, dwarven plates don't drop all the time or drop multiple time for the same person messing it up for the other players who need it? Are you POSITIVE you want to change it before you change the fact that you've released broken material that you expect us to be ok with? Like don't get me wrong the istan grind is OP, but at least its not SO broken it's not enjoyable like the new map is. I think you should look at the bad broken map and story you've released before dislocating hundreds of players from their happy grinding area. Now as a coder I know its not that simple, but as a player I have to say this isn't the best way to make your players happy at the moment.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know this may not be the most popular opinion either.
> > > >
> > > > This 1000000x. Some of the bugs are just unacceptable, especially given the lack of response to certain bugs (I'm starting to think the DB weapon issues will never be resolved). And I think it's a shame that someone has to tag their posts with "I know this may not be the most popular opinion". Like, why is that? Because the player base is largely just as apathetic as ANet about the game's issues because they're jaded by years of bugs? Whatever. It's sad to see anyone discussing Istan when the latest content is simply not in order.
> > > >
> > >
> > > So a bug that exists for hardly 2 weeks makes you think it will never get fixed? Something they can't just activate a switch on that will magically fix it? Really? They've acknowledged several of the bugs and they're working on them. This is useless doomsaying though.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Actually, that was hyperbole, but since you asked: It's within the real of possibility. What evidence do you have that the bugs will be fixed? If so, which bugs, and why?
>
> Ouch ... that's harsh. We know bugs get fixed. Which ones? Just speculation but the ones that are most harmful to the game most likely. I mean, lets not talk like Anet just lets bugs just linger around.
>
"We sincerely appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Currently, we are aware of this issue and are going to continue investigating. *Unfortunately, we currently do not have an ETA on a solution*. Be sure to keep your eyes on any upcoming patch notes for hotfixes! *I'm afraid we not able to grant the item or achievement*, but we sincerely appreciate your patience and understanding while we work this out!"
This is an example of a response for DB weapons bug. Sounds like lingering to me. Also, I bet they can't grant the necessary items or achievements.
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> @"Blocki.4931" said:
> > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > @"Empanda.4617" said:
> > > So ok I understand why you'd want to nerf istan but I'd just like to say Anet, you released the new chapter, full of bugs and crashes. You haven't fixed THAT yet, but you want to change istan, a map grind that people actually enjoy. Now its hard not to be salty about this after experiencing the new chapter and all the bugs, glitches and crashes. Are you POSITIVE, you want to change istan before you fix that new map and story instances where people can get stuck in rocks and crystals in the story instances, dwarven plates don't drop all the time or drop multiple time for the same person messing it up for the other players who need it? Are you POSITIVE you want to change it before you change the fact that you've released broken material that you expect us to be ok with? Like don't get me wrong the istan grind is OP, but at least its not SO broken it's not enjoyable like the new map is. I think you should look at the bad broken map and story you've released before dislocating hundreds of players from their happy grinding area. Now as a coder I know its not that simple, but as a player I have to say this isn't the best way to make your players happy at the moment.
> > >
> > > I know this may not be the most popular opinion either.
> >
> > This 1000000x. Some of the bugs are just unacceptable, especially given the lack of response to certain bugs (I'm starting to think the DB weapon issues will never be resolved). And I think it's a shame that someone has to tag their posts with "I know this may not be the most popular opinion". Like, why is that? Because the player base is largely just as apathetic as ANet about the game's issues because they're jaded by years of bugs? Whatever. It's sad to see anyone discussing Istan when the latest content is simply not in order.
> >
>
> So a bug that exists for hardly 2 weeks makes you think it will never get fixed? Something they can't just activate a switch on that will magically fix it? Really? They've acknowledged several of the bugs and they're working on them. This is useless doomsaying though.
>
>
Actually, that was hyperbole, but since you asked: It's within the real of possibility. What evidence do you have that the bugs will be fixed? If so, which bugs, and why? The bugged features I'm concerned about were demonstrated prior to release (see: Youtube). Also, some of the broken features are actually basic (missing infusion slots? i'm actually genuinely puzzled). There was definitely time to promote this release, just not time to adequately test it I guess.
I am glad you feel the devs making a "Post ur Bugs here" forum that they barely respond to means they've acknowledged and are working on issues. I don't feel that way. I'm also impressed that you're into bugged releases, waiting around, and stalking devs across the forums to keep up to date. Perhaps you fall in to the category of players I described in my previous post? How long exactly should we wait? And by which metrics are you deciding on your suggestion?
It took me two weeks to make this comment and that's still jumping the gun. Like I said....whatever.
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> @"Empanda.4617" said:
> So ok I understand why you'd want to nerf istan but I'd just like to say Anet, you released the new chapter, full of bugs and crashes. You haven't fixed THAT yet, but you want to change istan, a map grind that people actually enjoy. Now its hard not to be salty about this after experiencing the new chapter and all the bugs, glitches and crashes. Are you POSITIVE, you want to change istan before you fix that new map and story instances where people can get stuck in rocks and crystals in the story instances, dwarven plates don't drop all the time or drop multiple time for the same person messing it up for the other players who need it? Are you POSITIVE you want to change it before you change the fact that you've released broken material that you expect us to be ok with? Like don't get me wrong the istan grind is OP, but at least its not SO broken it's not enjoyable like the new map is. I think you should look at the bad broken map and story you've released before dislocating hundreds of players from their happy grinding area. Now as a coder I know its not that simple, but as a player I have to say this isn't the best way to make your players happy at the moment.
>
> I know this may not be the most popular opinion either.
This 1000000x. Some of the bugs are just unacceptable, especially given the lack of response to certain bugs (I'm starting to think the DB weapon issues will never be resolved). And I think it's a shame that someone has to tag their posts with "I know this may not be the most popular opinion". Like, why is that? Because the player base is largely just as apathetic as ANet about the game's issues because they're jaded by years of bugs? Whatever. It's sad to see anyone discussing Istan when the latest content is simply not in order.
As someone else pointed out, the game seems poised to become daily login w a gem store transaction here and there (i mean honestly, that's where we are now). So you as a player have to accept that *this* is the free content experience GW2 is based upon.
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> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:
> > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:
> > > > @"Clayton Kisko.5207" said:
> > > > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > > > @"Clayton Kisko.5207" said:
> > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:
> > > > > > > There is a collection for all exotic dragon blood weapons that gives the title "Journeyman of the Forge"
> > > > > > > doing one of the small achievements you unlock after that give "Master of the Forge"
> > > > > > > but there doesn't seem to be any collection for collecting all the ascended dragon blood weapons. I hope this is an oversight. The title should be called "Grandmaster of the Forge"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I love that you would be willing to chase that down! As others have mentioned however, we decided against this due to the fact that we thought gating a title and achievement behind something so large would be painful to players. :)
> > > > >
> > > > > You technically could not get this achievement anyway, since the episode was launched with several of the ascended weapons collections being broken.
> > > >
> > > > Yes which was an unfortunate issue, but we very quickly fixed that and the achievement is now unblocked. Yay game development! :)
> > >
> > > Will we see the fixes today or on Tuesday?
> >
> > I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing here. The Dragonsblood Focus collection is currently broken as you can't complete all 3 deeds. I know several other players with the same issue. This means you couldn't collect all ascended weapons right now, even if you wanted to, if you are experiencing this bug. I've seen posts in the forum indicating this issue is being worked on and I am unaware of a fix. I logged in just now to confirm and seems the collection is still broken.
> >
> >
> >
>
> We're obviously not because I was quite clearly asking when the fixes would be live and not about whatever anything is particularly bugged...
I apologise, my post was just confusing because I quoted you and not the dev. The game dev indicated that a quick fix had already occurred. I was pointing out that no such quick fix has happened. You were asking "when will see the fix" but I don't think he can adequately answer that question if he doesn't know which bug I am referring to. I was just elaborating on which bug I am referring to so there isn't any confusion and we're all on the same page.
To answer your original question, there is no ETA on fix (per response from Anet I've seen elsewhere in the forums) and also they can't do anything to help you if you're affected by the issue. I am not sure what fix the game dev was originally referring to.
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> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:
> > @"Clayton Kisko.5207" said:
> > > @"Rhein.8197" said:
> > > > @"Clayton Kisko.5207" said:
> > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:
> > > > > There is a collection for all exotic dragon blood weapons that gives the title "Journeyman of the Forge"
> > > > > doing one of the small achievements you unlock after that give "Master of the Forge"
> > > > > but there doesn't seem to be any collection for collecting all the ascended dragon blood weapons. I hope this is an oversight. The title should be called "Grandmaster of the Forge"
> > > >
> > > > I love that you would be willing to chase that down! As others have mentioned however, we decided against this due to the fact that we thought gating a title and achievement behind something so large would be painful to players. :)
> > >
> > > You technically could not get this achievement anyway, since the episode was launched with several of the ascended weapons collections being broken.
> >
> > Yes which was an unfortunate issue, but we very quickly fixed that and the achievement is now unblocked. Yay game development! :)
>
> Will we see the fixes today or on Tuesday?
I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing here. The Dragonsblood Focus collection is currently broken as you can't complete all 3 deeds. I know several other players with the same issue. This means you couldn't collect all ascended weapons right now, even if you wanted to, if you are experiencing this bug. I've seen posts in the forum indicating this issue is being worked on and I am unaware of a fix. I logged in just now to confirm and seems the collection is still broken.
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> @"Clayton Kisko.5207" said:
> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:
> > There is a collection for all exotic dragon blood weapons that gives the title "Journeyman of the Forge"
> > doing one of the small achievements you unlock after that give "Master of the Forge"
> > but there doesn't seem to be any collection for collecting all the ascended dragon blood weapons. I hope this is an oversight. The title should be called "Grandmaster of the Forge"
>
> I love that you would be willing to chase that down! As others have mentioned however, we decided against this due to the fact that we thought gating a title and achievement behind something so large would be painful to players. :)
You technically could not get this achievement anyway, since the episode was launched with several of the ascended weapons collections being broken.
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> @"Eminstra.9207" said:
> > @"Blessed Riot.3187" said:
> > after completing Scion & Champ I was teleported back to Durmand Priory and not Thunderhead. so yeah not sure what to do here. reloaded the game, tried quitting the chapter to restart but nothing. Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Same issue here. Is there another way to get to Thunderhead?
Same issue here, accidentally made an external thread about it. Sorry ;__;
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reported in main bug thread
(sorry this can be removed)
Is it just or me or is the in-game community becoming more and more toxic?
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion
Posted
> @"JTGuevara.9018" said:
> I only ever get angry in pvp, never in pve. Even then, it's primarily because of the league system and matchmaking, but that's a discussion for another day! In pve, though who cares?
>
> And yes, the community is getting worse. The toxicity is creeping in into fractals and even public strikes. One day, I even saw gear/build checks for t2s! It's not just that either, people in chat just want to argue or get attention, just want to be "edgy" for the sake of it. It's the whole Reddit-Snowcrows-edgy-4chan mentality is infesting the game and it starting to distance me from MMOs.
The obsession with DPS is inevitably bleeding into PvE as more people participate in raids, strikes, fractals, PvP, etc because in these other modes DPS and other metrics dictate the gameplay. We then find ourselves in a position where so many people are subscribing to this DPS-centric meta ideology, that everywhere we go we are told it's the only way for an "optimal" result etc. And I can certainly understand this strategy for raids, PvP, even higher fractals and *some* strikes, so I don't want it to sound like metric assessments don't have a place in MMOs.
At the same time, this is why we have players like Guevara who are considering just dropping MMOs altogether, and who can blame them? Can we have one mode where we aren't shamed for our builds? Can we ever have results that aren't optimal? Often times we blame the developers or the game's design for these kinds of issues popping up but i think it's 2020 and we need to start discussing the real issue at the root of all this: players.
The fact is MMOs are not single player games, they are public games that put you around a range of personalities and perceptions you might not agree with. I would also argue that the anonymity/"character creation" element of MMOs (I'm going to try to keep this as simple as possible) allows people to behave how they want (within community guidelines). So that means we might have a commander who is very forgiving, tries to res everyone constantly, feels rewarded by helping, etc. It could also mean you have a party member in fractals that has been relentlessly shamed into believing their original ideas suck, only certain builds work, only a so high DPS works, etc. Some people are just trying to get done quickly and want optimal synergy in their parties (which imo is contradictory to public gameplay, but whatever).
It could ALSO mean you encounter completely unreasonable people. Ultimately, players are actual people who possess a range of motivations for playing GW2/games in general. We don't about think about this, but it heavily affects the kind the world we live in (in GW2).
You have to decide for yourself what to do about it. You could quit the game. You can start your own guild. You can can start your own group content in PvE. I can tell you what will happen regardless:
- Game devs will not address player behavior unless it falls outside of established guidelines
- The values held by PvPers, raiders, etc. won't change
- Experienced players will still have unrealistic expectations, no matter how much it hurts the game's population
- Players obsessed with winning will stay obsessed, that's quite common even outside of MMOs
edit note: I also have to say that if you haven't noticed the population changing to be more aligned with snow crows, meta battle, raider perceptions, etc. you are either very lucky, don't public play/chat much, or are willfully ignoring it because TC is correct that things have changed. I don't know how productive it is to call it "toxic" though. IMO toxic is a blanket term for very specific behaviors we can define.