Vyriis.6258

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> I'm kind geeking out a bit sorry. And thank you for listening.

Geek away. I love discussing lore and issue within it.

> Ho boy do I want to see these magics explored more. Most of what I say is my speculation on how it works. Some of it isn't but it's all based in my in game knowledge.

Same, on both accounts. Was a Rit main in GW1 and have been a Rev main since it came out. The mists, being both the afterlife and seemingly the connection of the uni/multiverse, has always intrigued me. Most of what we can do is speculate until solid evidence comes out and rely on each other to fill in the gaps when we miss something.

On that note, though, I don't really want to keep discussing this on a thread that has been hi-jacked and derailed. >.> If a moderator could maybe move the conversations that went from "Next legend and weapon" to "who exactly uses the mists and what do Revenants actually channel" to the lore section I'd be happy to continue discussing.

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"Vyriis.6258" said:

> > What Revenants are doing is technically "necromancy" in that they are communing with the dead, but they then take it further by pulling their power directly from the mists; something Necromancers don't do.

>

> Well, that's not quite true. The necromancer is pulling magic from the mists. As far as we can tell, much of their magic is using the threads of death connecting Tyria to the underworld and realm of torment to fuel their magic. What we see in game isn't quite expressed too clearly so we can only speculate based on in game descriptions and evidence given to us by characters and lore.

>

> Necromancy seems to have a connection to the realm of torment and underworld which you can tell by looking at their minions. [stygian](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Stygian) , which are partially formed Demon spawn look identical to the minions the necromancer summons. It would seem that the energies the necromancer is calling on are from the mists, a specific part of the mists but this is speculation. But it can't be ruled out that the necromancer's magic isn't connected to the mists because there is evidence that it most certainly is. [Ghastly Breach](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Breach) the scourge elite is "breaching" the realm of torment as the skill describes it. So they are able to pull directly from the mists in cannon. How much of their magic requires this connection to the underworld and realm of torment? I'm not entirely sure.

>

> Necromancers have more questions than answers. As do Revenants. It would be nice to explore both of their respective magics further.

Though I do agree there are more questions than answers when it comes to the mists and death magic and how exactly they differ. Stygians and minions are not the same. Lore wise minions are simply animated corpses; they are not summoned from another realm. They are made up of the bits and pieces of broken bodies around them, nothing more. The reason they look the same is most likely due to them not wanting to make new assets. It does throw me off, though, when they introduce skills like Ghastly Torment, and even Shadow Fiend, which do both directly connect to the mists (seemingly in the case of Fiend, though this could also just be a ball of condensed death magic). As you say; anything we can come up for these would simply be speculation.

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > @"Vyriis.6258" said:

> > Also getting tired of people suggesting Balthazar. As cool as it would be to use a greatsword like Balth does, we can't use him as a legend for the same reasons we can't use Joko, Eir, Trahearne, Vlast, or any of the other characters who have died in "recent events"; they have died in recent events. If a new player were to stumble across someone using "Legendary Marshal stance" or "Legendary Hunter Stance" and notice they were Trahaerne or Eir it would tell them that those two characters are dead before their story gets to that point (talk about spoilers).

>

> We do channel Joko as Legendary Prisoner during the story, while he‘s still around. A legend doesn‘t have to be dead to be channeled.

> [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Prisoner_Stance](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Prisoner_Stance)

>

> Revenants do not commune with the dead, they commune with fully sentient echoes of legendary figures.

> The entity the echo came from can be dead or alive. In the case of Joko we don‘t commune with the currently active Joko walking around Tyria, but an echo of his former self as a prisoner.

The Legends we use on a daily bases are not simple echos, but the legends themselves. During the point in the story where we do channel Joko it is still unknown whether he'd broken out of the prison before or after we had, but that doesn't change the fact that we only channel him long enough for him to say "Release me!". This is either because it's just an echo or because he's still alive. Mallyx has a voice line "You can't hold me forever!" which implies he is bound to us. The voice lines of all the legends thus far tell that they know they are already dead; this is because we are binding their spirits themselves, not echos.

If it were merely echos we were channeling it would be the same situation as with Joko where we'd only get voice lines from the time in which the echo is being channeled from. Or at best spurts of their power during what ever echo we could find while they were in the mists (Which would limit us to Mallyx during his time in the Realm of torment and Shiro during his time as an Envoy). If it were also as simple as channeling echos to rein in a legends power why is it Anet decided to go with Kalla as the legend for PoF? Why not just channel the echo of Balthazar to fight Balthazar with? Or any of the gods for that matter; Grenth (Ice) or Lyssa (Water) would have been good choices as well. Why not channel Malandru to fight Mordrimoth with during HoT? Because we can't simply channel echos and expect nearly as much power as we get from them. It also wasn't until after we defeated Balthazar and Joko that people started thinking of them as legends to channel simply because that's how it works; they need to be dead and have their spiritual forms residing in the mists.

However, all of that aside, neither of us can really say how exactly Revenants channel their power for sure as it's not specifically stated anywhere how our powers work. Given what we know about the mists via fractals, though, we can say for sure that echos within the mists simply repeat themselves, they do not change. Thus it's harder to believe we can pull any substantial power, or hold any sort of conversation, with mere echos.

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Vyriis.6258" said:

> > I'd like to see a True Scythe weapon come to the game, but we've already got Scythe styled staves with two specs that offer a melee staff variant, so don't see that happening.

> Don't forget that Reaper's Scythe in Shroud is classified as a hammer, so we have two weapon categories that can be used for Scythes.

>

Didn't count Reaper as it's a class specific mechanic. You're right, though; it is still there.

> > Dervish are also Holy warriors devoted to the Human gods (which doesn't translate into GW2 where we have multiple races who don't all believe in the human gods [This aspect is mostly taken by Rev at this point anyways channeling Legends through ourselves as Dervish did with the gods]).

> Dervish can easily translated into the game by the simple removal the gods aspect and focus and magic and Scythes.

And this has happened; with Revenant. Not the dress wearing scythe swinging profession, but it removed the God aspect and we have the melee, magic based, staff stance to go with it.

> There are many non-human enemies in GW1 that are Dervishs.

The whole point of PvE in GW1 was to get people ready for PvP. So it wouldn't be logical to not put Dervish skills on enemies simply because of their theme. Same goes with creatures using Ritualists urns while they don't have any connection to the humans related to those skills.

> After all, Dervish was more than the Avatar gimmick.

Earth Prayer represented the body while Wind Prayer represented the soul/mind. Mysticism the connection between the two and the gods (faith). A lot of what the Dervish were was based around the human connection with the gods, which translated to GW2 with the only Dervish we see being human. Dervish, as a name and appearance, were taken from the Muslim religion to begin with, so deviating probably isn't going to happen.

>

> Don't forget that all magic humans use in GW1 technically are prayers to their respective gods.

> Yet other races, not praying to said gods, are using the very same magic.

They aren't prayers, though. Humans have patron gods that they associate with their magic, but they don't draw their power from praying to their gods. Dervish are the only ones that directly pray (thematically) for their power. Though they can increase their power by praying it isn't necessary to do so.

And again: PvE mobs are there to train players for end game PvP. And magic wasn't something new that the gods had gifted to the entirety of Tyria; Magic had existed on Tyria long before the gods had arrived. So to say that all magic derives from the Gods is false.

>

> Dervishs use Wind and Earth prayers, which could be translated into Air and Earth magic for Elementalist.

> Since Elementalists already use staves, they could just get hammer and their spec skin just is a scythe.

>

Elementalist could get hammer/scythe, but it still wouldn't be Dervish. Also don't believe anet will give Ele hammer as they already have their lightning hammer counjur.

>

> > @"meri.9187" said:

> > Nah man rev needs greatsword, it's a heavy class.

> It's a heavy armour class that's unique in not using the Greatchunk of unwieldiness.

> That's an **upside** to the profession.

This. Revenant is a heavy armor class with a light play style, just like Necro is a light class with a heavy play style. The armor class doesn't mean that's how they should play. A lot of people keep equating Revenant to a Death Knight, but I much prefer the idea of a Mists Assassin and the "Greatchunk of Unwieldiness" just does not suit that at all.

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"Vyriis.6258" said:

>

> > The Ritualist, as a concept, is captured in Revenant as is. We are a class that channels the energies of beings of the past to aid us; We wield the mists, not magic. That was the concept of Ritualist in GW1. Where they differ, in play style, is Ritualist is a mid range support while Rev is front line support-bruiser, in which case I have to agree that Ritualist as a spec would be a waste on Rev.

>

> A misconception, but the revenant does use magic. Rytlock says as much that he's "Getting used to this new magic". Its Mist magic specifically, but its still very much magic.

Should have been more clear with that: Not "just magic". As even without "magic" we can still utilize the mists (as Ritualists did before gifted magic by the gods). And in all fairness anything that isn't "cast fist" is magic to Rytlock.

>Revenant is also not calling "heroes of the past" but Any legendary spirit existing in the mists, regardless of if they're dead or currently alive. As long as they're in the mists they're accessible to the revenant's magic. In the Story the Rev Channels on Palawa Joko, who had not yet been defeated. Joko who was not dead.

I didn't say "Heroes of the past", I specifically said "Beings". "...but any legendary 'spirit' existing in the mists..." Right, "spirit" being the operative word there. We do channel Joko, but only for a moment as we can't bind his energy to us for too long as he's still living.

>

> > I have to disagree, though, that Necromancer could better serve the idea of Ritualist over Revenant. If we are looking strictly at game play the only part about Necro that would be better for Rit than Rev is Spirit summoning; but looking at that Anet gave the "spirit summoning" aspect of Rit to Engineer via turrets. So for unique mechanics that leaves item spells (ashes) and weapon spells. Weapon spells functioned as single target versions of Venoms (thieves), but this mechanic could still come to Rev as us channeling the mists into our allies weapons to aid us in battle (the skills would function the same as Venoms).

>

> Spirit summoning and shroud which shroud functions as Urns would function just as well as a shroud. Or a Shroud being captured into an Urn to channel otherworldy magics. The necromancer too uses Magic from the mists. And we can prove this in game. Mechanically it has fewer complications. Revenant's Legend swapping causes some issues. That isn't to say they couldn't be specific and summon specific legends to acquire ritualist abilities. This is true, but that's true with any class for them. They have Assassin like play style with Shiro, which is neat.

You're right; Shroud "could" act like an urn and then summon spirits, but why would you want it to? Shroud can go in so many different and unique ways; why would you want to simply turn it into an urn or as a proxy to summon more spirits? This would also make it feel like Desert Shroud again as it would most likely not put you into an actual shroud and you'd be throwing out stationary allies. And no, the Necromancer does not use magic from the mists, they can use spirits but not from the mists itself. Spirits, and traces there of, remain on the physical plain and can be tapped into via death magic. The only time we see Necromancers tapping into the mists is through actual rituals.

>

> Weapon spells are like conjure weapons in GW2, at least that's the flavor and it sorta doesn't work to put on an elite spec for either. But the core of what's important fits within necromancer. Not so much rev.

>

Actually if we're going with more of a Conjure weapon idea over a Venom like idea I think they would fit fine with either. They could work as the f ability for Rev. f2: Splinter Weapon. f3: Wailing Weapon. f4: Nightmare Weapon. Each one could summon a ghostly weapon in hand that has limited uses and can be traited (Weapons of the Three Forges) to drop copies on the ground for allies or yourself to pick up. Or just throw them on Necro as simple conjure utilities with similar appearance to their GW1 counterparts.

> > So to slap Ritualist spec on Necromancer we're really only looking at "Channeling the mists to summon more allies", which Anet has been trying to keep away from AI skills. The weapon spell venom idea could work for them, but I feel like they could be more effective on Rev, especially with one being a pulsing upkeep. To push these into the "selfish dps" spec we could get a trait that works in the reverse of Soulbeasts stance share (Increase the effectiveness on ourselves, but no longer spreads to allies).

>

> Necromancer is the summoner of GW2. They don't just summon Minions but Shades. They have some Ritualist gameplay with the Scourge, and it fills much of the same role and does feel like a logical evolution of that Shamanistic totem gameplay that Ritualist was known for. I dislike the idea of moving away from AI completely and I don't think its all that true either. Soulbeast is just a highly sought after elite spec that ranger players were requesting for years. Players wanted to play without their pet and this was the closest they could get.

You're right; Necromancer currently fills in some of the missing Ritualist Gameplay, which is why we don't really need it. Not sure why you're bringing up this point when we're both in agreement that that aspect of Rit doesn't need to come to GW2 as it's already here. The totem style of gameplay is met in several areas; it's the other functions of Ritualist that I want, item and weapon spells, that I believe could work on either Rev or Necro, but not Necro more so than Rev; could go either way.

Soulbeast wasn't the first step in moving away from AI. Ranger spirits used to move with the player, was removed. Guardian weapons used to move with the player and attack on their own, was removed. They have stated they don't want too many AI related skills in the game.

> > Ritualist, Dervish, Monk, and Paragon, game play wise, have been spread across multiple classes in GW2. Anet stated this back during release. I wouldn't mind seeing a Spear chucking spec come back, but that's about all the old Paragon class can give us at this point. I'd like to see a True Scythe weapon come to the game, but we've already got Scythe styled staves with two specs that offer a melee staff variant, so don't see that happening. Dervish are also Holy warriors devoted to the Human gods (which doesn't translate into GW2 where we have multiple races who don't all believe in the human gods [This aspect is mostly taken by Rev at this point anyways channeling Legends through ourselves as Dervish did with the gods]). Monk translated into guardians and Rit mostly translated into Engi and Rev. I would like to see new ideas coming out at this point, though, instead of bringing old idea back. It's been 250 years and a lot has happened in Cantha; a lot of room for things to have developed in interesting ways.

>

> Ritualists are necromancers. By definition, what they do is necromancy. This isn't a "Disagree" thing its just factual. You might want to distinquish it from necromancy, but it is necromancy. They're calling spirits of the dead, using bones, skins and teeth as catalysts to connect to the after life. As the necromancer is doing now. The difference in their magic was what materials they used in GW1. In GW2, necromancer has adopted those materials into their own Rituals. Both are heavily connected to the mists as is Revenant. I Don't know if what Revenant is doing is necromancy, it could very well be but it seems Revenant is capturing memories captured in time in the Mists. Much like how the Fractals work. They summon a version of Glint, a version of Shiro, a version of Kala. But their strange spacetime bending abilities are far beyond what Ritualist and necromancer does by just communing with the dead or punching holes to the after life.

>

Not sure why you brought this point up here, but I don't refute it. Necromancy and Ritualism are closely connected, though not entirely the same. But, by definition, they are not the same either. What Necromancers do is Ritualism, but what Ritualists do goes beyond Necromancy. As necromancers perform rituals to manipulate materials of death around them (blood/death magic) but they don't connect directly to the mists (outside of actual rituals to connect to the mists). Ritualists tap directly into the mists and use that energy (mist magic) in their rituals to bind the spirits directly to their will. Wasn't simply what materials were used but the base of the magic itself and the actual depth of said magic. What Revenants are doing is technically "necromancy" in that they are communing with the dead, but they then take it further by pulling their power directly from the mists; something Necromancers don't do.

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> Nostalgia is blinding people to the complications of Revenant's design that would make a "Ritualist" a terrible idea for them. Its not a good nostalgia either as the people pushing for it don't have an accurate look at what the ritualist was in GW1 or why it could never be properly served by a spec like revenant. I myself love the Ritualist and would love to see it return to Guild Wars 2. However, It needs to be served properly and the closest any profession gets to serving it properly is the necromancer. And even then I'm more interested in Acquiring Missing Elements of necromancer than trying to recapture a whole other class from the first game.

The Ritualist, as a concept, is captured in Revenant as is. We are a class that channels the energies of beings of the past to aid us; We wield the mists, not magic. That was the concept of Ritualist in GW1. Where they differ, in play style, is Ritualist is a mid range support while Rev is front line support-bruiser, in which case I have to agree that Ritualist as a spec would be a waste on Rev.

I have to disagree, though, that Necromancer could better serve the idea of Ritualist over Revenant. If we are looking strictly at game play the only part about Necro that would be better for Rit than Rev is Spirit summoning; but looking at that Anet gave the "spirit summoning" aspect of Rit to Engineer via turrets. So for unique mechanics that leaves item spells (ashes) and weapon spells. Weapon spells functioned as single target versions of Venoms (thieves), but this mechanic could still come to Rev as us channeling the mists into our allies weapons to aid us in battle (the skills would function the same as Venoms).

I had a suggestion for Weapon Spells back when Rev first came out before we had two weapon sets; It was to have our weapon swap (or maybe f2) swap our weapon to a fragment of our currently equipped legend (A piece of jade from Shiro's Jade statue, Mallyx's tusk or claw, Ventari's Horn, and Jalis hammer [these were all to be opposite range of the weapons we got for each of them {Like Melee hammer for Jalis to support our hammer that was bad in close range. Or mid range casting for Malyx and Shiro to support their aggressive close range weapons}]). This concept could still work for a Ritualist spec for Revenant, but wouldn't work for Necromancer as they wouldn't really have a reference point to channel from.

So to slap Ritualist spec on Necromancer we're really only looking at "Channeling the mists to summon more allies", which Anet has been trying to keep away from AI skills. The weapon spell venom idea could work for them, but I feel like they could be more effective on Rev, especially with one being a pulsing upkeep. To push these into the "selfish dps" spec we could get a trait that works in the reverse of Soulbeasts stance share (Increase the effectiveness on ourselves, but no longer spreads to allies).

>

> As it stands from my perspective, Keep Ritualist in the past with Monk, Paragon and Dervish. As much as I'd love to see Monk, Dervish and Ritualist in GW2, I wouldn't want them as Elite specializations. And I'd rather them stay dead than revived as a hollow version of their former selves like Necromancer had become.

Ritualist, Dervish, Monk, and Paragon, game play wise, have been spread across multiple classes in GW2. Anet stated this back during release. I wouldn't mind seeing a Spear chucking spec come back, but that's about all the old Paragon class can give us at this point. I'd like to see a True Scythe weapon come to the game, but we've already got Scythe styled staves with two specs that offer a melee staff variant, so don't see that happening. Dervish are also Holy warriors devoted to the Human gods (which doesn't translate into GW2 where we have multiple races who don't all believe in the human gods [This aspect is mostly taken by Rev at this point anyways channeling Legends through ourselves as Dervish did with the gods]). Monk translated into guardians and Rit mostly translated into Engi and Rev. I would like to see new ideas coming out at this point, though, instead of bringing old idea back. It's been 250 years and a lot has happened in Cantha; a lot of room for things to have developed in interesting ways.

> I want to see the selfish damage spec for Revenant. We have 2 support specs with Renegade and Herald when Revenant is supposed to envoke that sort of lone warrior character and in both cases they're support. Give me the Selfish warrior of the mists who bends both good and evil to their will. I don't want yet ANOTHER support spec.

Love the description of: "Channel legendary powers to slaughter foes and unleash chaos on the battlefield." Yet both of our elite specs so far have been about supporting and uniting. I want to be that chaotic warrior that is feared when it's seen on the battle field. Herald is pure support and Kalla is mostly support (even if she does allow for one of the highest condi benchmarks in game). This is one of the reasons I'd like to see someone like Xun Rao as the next legend (even though he's a human). We know little about him except Anet described him as "the biggest threat to Cantha" and he was one of the leading figures in turning the human populace of Cantha against all non-humans. There is a lot of room there to turn him into a powerful legend with a unique play style. Or even go for some unnamed to this point legend that had been terrorizing Cantha within the past 250 years. So much they can do to be interesting and fresh yet everyone wants what we've already had.

> @"meri.9187" said:

> Realistically this class needs greatsword.

Really getting tired of seeing people say "Revenant needs Greatsword". Revenant shouldn't be forced into another "Big weapon heavy hitter" role; they should remain as a heavy yet swift combatant. Nothing we currently have for weapons, aside from our slow ranged hammer, plays into the role of a lumbering heavy class and I, personally, would prefer to keep it that way.

> One of the norn heroes of Jora or Asgeir Dragonrender would be nice, I know they used sword/shield but Kalla used a greatsword.

It's never actually stated what Kalla used in life. She's depicted with a Greatsword in her statue, but that doesn't mean that was her weapon of choice. The Shortbow could have also been a callback to her Grandsir, Pyre Fierceshot, who was a Ranger in GW1. It's also noted in one of her voice lines that she's not against using other weapons (When acquiring Scrochrazors Fist - Kalla: "A mace? For me? I can get behind that. Blunt. Solid. Hits you in the face.").

> If they suddenly become intent on properly honoring the weapon the character actually used, just use Balthazar, it would make the most sense considering recent events.

Also getting tired of people suggesting Balthazar. As cool as it would be to use a greatsword like Balth does, we can't use him as a legend for the same reasons we can't use Joko, Eir, Trahearne, Vlast, or any of the other characters who have died in "recent events"; they have died in recent events. If a new player were to stumble across someone using "Legendary Marshal stance" or "Legendary Hunter Stance" and notice they were Trahaerne or Eir it would tell them that those two characters are dead before their story gets to that point (talk about spoilers).

> @"Xca.9721" said:

> Please nothing with summons, I don´t want to have another Kalla fiesta

100% agree. Though, sadly, there are a lot more people who want their "true Ritualist" spec; which in their eyes is spirit spamming (probably the most boring way to play Ritualist).

> @"Darnir.5038" said:

> Hanasha Coralfin (The naga priest that saved her specie from shiro's death wail. That would introduce some ralying skills to the revenant... PvP players would hate it.)

Had no idea this character existed, and am kinda disappointed about that; but now that I know she exists I want her as the next legend. The "Devil" on our shoulder telling us/rooting us on in killing all the humans. Though given what is on the wiki about her I feel like they'd shoe horn her into a support/healer spec while I'm pretty sure at this point most people want a true power spec. If they do it like they did with Renegade, though, and make it Power/Support with a good split between the two it'd be fine.

Berserker's for Power

or

Vipers for Condition.

Trailblazers is a no go for any form of end game PvE content (Fractals, Dungeons, Raids). You could also go for Diviners (with some berserkers) for Alacren, just note that this would be support and you would be expected to do more than just dps. If you have PoF and are able to; unlock Renegade (needed for Alacren). It's a much better spec all around (In PvE) aside from very niche roles. You might be able to get away with Trailblazers in low tier fractals, but don't expect to get into many T4 groups later on until you upgrade as you just wont be doing enough to be worth keeping in party.

If you insist on playing Herald I suggest going power as Herald doesn't lend itself well to Condition damage but does fine as power. If you insist on going Condition damage then you definitely need to go for Renegade (If you have access to it) as it's more geared towards condition damage. Either way, though, you will need to upgrade to a more aggressive set as it's looked down upon to run Vitality or Toughness in fractals if you aren't the healer.

Oppressor - Legendary Illusionist - Reiko: Scepter + Focus (I only say with focus because we currently lack an offhand to really support a range main hand weapon). [Think this would also be great for possible interesting dialogue with Charr, Asura, and Sylvari (and Tengu if they become playable]. Utilities could be similar to Deceptions. A blink like skill would be nice, disengage abilities, and maybe an elite like thieves guild (given Reiko summons a bunch of clones when we fight her they could look more like clones, but a little more useful).

Exorcist - Legendary Purger - Xun Rao: Mid range Great Sword or mid range Dagger/Dagger (His picture depicts him with a sword, but he never appeared in game so no idea what his weapon of choice actually was. We need a good mid range power option, though, so anything that could fill that would be great). [in the same vein as Reiko it would be interesting to have an "Evil" character that had something to do with the current state of Cantha]. Utilities could be Consecrations, but instead of being supportive make them offensive in nature.

Warden - Legendary Spirit - Urgoz: Longbow. (I know we just got SB with Ren, but we need a good ranged power weapon given how bad Hammer is. And they could even add flair by making it do increase damage the closer the target is and have a couple of the skills based on pulling enemies in). I would like to see Spirit weapons return (not like Guardian spirit weapons, but more like the way Venoms on thief work. Unique buffs that last a couple seconds or have a few charges on them). Splinter weapon would be great (bring back Splinter Barrage!)

I'd say Kanaxai, but we already have a Demon stance and I don't really see him adding much to our skill set with a mainhand axe most likely being his weapon. Togo and Mhenlo I don't really want as they'd just be more "good" characters. And given Togo was a spirit spammer and Mhenlo was a healer I'd rather not have another spirit spamming spec or support spec. Vizu and Nika are out given they're both assassins and we already have an assassin stance (and they're both "good" characters). I'd like to say Talon Silverwing, Swift or Soar Honorclaw, but they are all warriors (even if Swifts skills were necromancers in the story). Suun could make for an alright Legend, as someone brought up the "Stargazer" idea of which he could be the legend to channel for that (but is a "good" character).

They could introduce a new character, much like they did with Kalla, and slap them in as the next Legend. Mostly looking for a Mid ranged power weapon with utilities and traits that aren't geared mostly for support. Would love to see mid range Daggers over GS, though, that's for sure. Enough classes can use GS as it is.

> @"JUN YANG.4328" said:

> i dont understand. so "end of dragon" is nothing to do with the elders?

Given the way the story is going right now, in that Jormag is trying to get us on their side for a "bigger threat", we could be facing the remaining Elders soon enough. There's been a theory kicking around that the Deep Sea Dragon isn't a destructive force of nature like the others and it's champion is Kuunavang; This could be the voice we hear in the trailer talking to Kuunavang and the "threat" Jormag wants our help with, pointing to a final, massive, battle between Elder Dragons.

> base on the new trailer is the same map as faction. which is happen at cantha. i remember cantha is not part of Tyria. (when i played gw faction is totally different location)

> some people said it was the area beyond the wall of "Dominion of wind" in Caledon Forest.

Cantha is a Continent further south beyond Elona (Part of Tyria the world, but not Tyria the continent). The Dominion of Winds is the home of the Tengu, some of whom migrated from Cantha.

Since the Spellforge backpiece has been out Mesmer (More so Chronomancer) has been causing fps drop for me and those around me. This is most likely due to the amount of models in close proximity with the backpiece (due to 15+ clones being out at once). Was hoping this patch would fix it but it seems it wasn't even on the radar. Have tested with the Vermillion wings now and it seems to be a bit worse. They are great cosmetics, but the particle effects from them take a major toll one everyone near by.

1) Chronomancer has been in a good position dps wise for a bit. Both Sw/Sw + Sw/F and Sw/x + GS are fine (GS being only slightly lower dps than Sw to slightly better situationally). It's great for most all raid bosses (some fights require condi builds, though, in which Mirage will be your better choice). Kind of mediocre for fractals because of the fast paced progression though.

2) Snow Crows or Metabattle are good places to find builds. ( https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer )

( https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/power/ ) At the end of the day, though, these are just starting points. Read your skills and traits, learn how they function with each other and in each encounter, and improve on your own. That will always get you farther than trying to imitated guides.

3) Greatsword is, for the most part, lower dps than Sw/x (When looking at the golem); but with enough practice, and knowledge of each encounter you can do around the same dps with both.

I'm pretty sure most of the people claiming chrono is too weak are talking about PvP and WvW and possibly fractals. Open world PvE just about anything goes. Fractals, as said above, moving from group to group your best bet is to stick with Sword in both sets because of the cleave on auto and low cd on Blurred, but for bosses you'll be fine with GS in your rotation. Raids chrono is one of the better choices as it has an easily maintained dps rotation. (Mind you: I don't pug anything, so I don't know how widely accepted power chrono is in any content pug wise, but among my groups I can top, or tie for top, dps with chrono on most encounters [Raids {non-condi meta} and fractals]).

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> I really like the outfit. But I have some critiques.

> 1. The mask... Why a mask? Necromancers in GW1 used face paint... Why not add more face paints? We're sorely lacking in that...

> 2. The male version is too masculine. Needs much smaller shoulder pads and heels.. I was really hoping I could make a cute feminine guy...

Though I agree the mask should have been face paint I have to disagree with the heels. Don't care for the look of heels on men or women. And at least the shoulder pads are smaller than they usually are. I'm just glad they finally took a step in the right direction and didn't just slap pants on the male version. Here's to hoping they take the leap and finally give us more revealing male outfits/armor sets; maybe with bare chests and no sleeves next time so I can finally show off my tattoos and fur patterns.

That is the Revealed effect and is meant to be, well, revealing. Multiple classes have access to revealing skills, so making it thief themed wouldn't make sense. Much like them changing alacrity to be less Mesmer in appearance due to more classes having access to it.

> @"Dantert.1803" said:

> So we all know that it would be hard to get a new race that also gets a playable main story line, so here is my idea about how it could be set up.

> You play as your Tengu in a vision of the past, I'll explain it better... You are able to play your new cool Tengu character through the main vanilla story but you are living it as an out of body experience, where you act as the commander but you hear the standard human voice when the character is talking.

> As an example in the battle of claw island mission you would see your Tengu but in the dialogues you would see your character not speaking and instead hearing the voice of the human commander.

There's really no point in saying you play this as a vision on the past. That would mean you'd have to be standing at the scrying pool to do so and really solves nothing if you're still playing through the story steps. If you mean this in that you can only play Tengu through these visions that kinda defeats the purpose of making them playable as you wouldn't be able to customize them to your liking.; they'd be a basic looking Tengu, much like playing Caithe in her vision of the past story arc. That'd also just mean replaying the story but looking like a Tengu via Tonic; no real point in that. If you mean that you make a Tengu and play through the story but it, for some reason, has the Human voice; why human? Why not Charr, Sylvari, Asura, or Norn voice? This also means going through and implementing them in the story anyways; and if they are going to do that why not just spend the extra bit to make sure it's done right and get a voice actor to do the lines specifically for the characters?

> Another solution that would result much cheaper but I would still love it is applying a filter to the human player character voice to make it sound like a bird, like they do with the charr voice with all the little grawls and stuff, and that would be enough!

This would still mean going through to every voice line and adding said filter. At that point they could get someone to record voice lines and record new little characterizations to them that would be more fitting than just human voice with a few chirps, whistles, or caws. This would also mean getting rid of any identity the Tengu would have in verbal communication; making them sound like humans with verbal ticks.

> Also I would add that about the armors it would be easier of the devs would build the Tengu to fit the same pose/skeleton of the charr so we could have the same amount of armors and the devs would save time(I'm guessing the devs already thought about this since is common practice in game development but I wanted to get it out there), we would get clipping as with the Charr but I think we can all learn to live with that.

Tengu already have the same mesh as Charr, but this doesn't cut down on the amount of work it takes to make armors work for them. Would be like throwing human molded armor onto Norn or Asura; would be under/oversized and wouldn't contour the same. Charr have a broader physique compared to the Tengus slender physique.

> @"Kanok.3027" said:

> Because Revenant is a class, not a race. Simply dropping a race in there is extremely difficult and with a class, someone else learns it from a new area and thus others can become it and classes aren't really mentioned in the story, outside of Necromancer for Exposition Salad (Trahearne). A race, you'd have to retcon a lot of stuff to include the Tengu and you'd have to develop new animations, new voice lines (a lot of them) and see how they fit in the story. On top of that, people can say "we can skip the 10-80 story", but I can guarantee you people would complain because they can't flesh out their Tengu's story and their place in it.

Funny enough Tengu would be easier to implement lore wise into the main story than Rev was. Rev was never a profession, even lore wise, until Rytlock went to the mists looking for Sohothin, coming back with the ability to channel the Mists (Reason Rox keeps bugging him to talk about his new powers). So for them to suddenly be all over the place makes no sense lore wise and when it comes to playing those story parts after Rytlock came back, if you're a Rev player, and Rox starts asking him even though you've been with her for a while now with the same powers just feels wrong. (And Necro isn't the only one mentioned by Trahearne. There are several Mesmers who refer to themselves or others as Mesmer [Jenna and Anise being famously referenced as such], Elementalists and Guardians are referred to by NPC occasionally. Warriors, Thieves, Rangers, and Engineers are referenced a bit, but it's not easy to spot simply because of the class specific names being titles you could give to anyone who holds those professions as occupations).

On the otherhand: We have Tengu in the pact during the main story line. Tengu are allowed to mingle with other races and travel as they please, it's just frowned upon. Tengu who do so can also become outcasts if they forgo too much of their heritage, but none of this really keeps them from being a part of the vanilla story; as, again, there are cases of some being in the pact or helping outsiders. Not sure why people keep thinking it's "Live by the bird or die by the bird" kind of situation. They're not that black and white, just very jaded given what happened to the Angchu and Sensali tribes.

> @"MrForz.1953" said:

> Why new races. And why Tengu of all of them? It eluded me for years.

New race because it's something that more than just a niche amount of people can play with, draws in different people, and really what else is there that they could add at this point that'd be "different" other than a new race? And as far as why Tengu; for me it's mostly because they were the most Native American like race in GW1 and have a nice amount of lore that makes them feel more alive than most of the other races. That and I love Avians. So being a Tengu with a shamanistic background would just be the best.

> @"Luthan.5236" said:

> They should just make an endless Tengu tonic. Problem solved. :P

> If they really made new races happen I'd want Dwarves or Largos first. (Preferrably with own personal story separate from the core races ... tying it together later with the living story. Like them having a own personal story for their race ... then skipping to latest living story. While core races played core personal story, HoT, PoF and LS2 to the latest point where both races stories would be combined. That even could work with a few different races at once if they were from the same region ... with region specific story.)

If they were going to make an endless tonic of anything it'd be Dwarves or Largos. Tengu were originally a planned race for GW2 and have the ability to be diverse in their appearance which could appeal to a larger audience. Dwarves are near extinct, those still alive being stone and fighting Dragon minions underground. So your choices on story to play and appearance would be "You are a living statue and you fight destroyers". Largos, as far as we've seen, all look the same and are mostly identical to humans aside from their bluish white skin and large blue wings (which we have as backpieces and something they'd have to work around with armor if they were a playable race). On top of that they're both humanoid races, of which we already have three, with backgrounds that aren't super diverse (Dwarves) or are shrouded in secrecy (Largos). Dwarves being small Norn who live underground. Substitute hunting with crafting and they're pretty much the same thing. Largos are a race of assassins who live very secretively. Playing as a Largos you'd have to throw away any idea of being the pact commander or leader of a guild that wasn't mostly assassins, of which Dragon's Watch is not.

Even if we don't consider how not so diverse they are you HAVE to consider them being the pact commander as that's who the story revolves around. Even if your personal story up until the current story is different it still needs to be explained why a Dwarf or a Largos is the current commander and your ragtag group looks to you as their guild leader. For someone outside of the vanilla to current story to suddenly appear, never be mentioned by any leaders up until that point, and somehow be given the position of commander and guild leader of Dragon's Watch would make absolutely no sense.

One of the reasons people look at Tengu as the first race to be introduced as a playable race is because they already have a massive amount of lore behind them and a place in the world that allows them to work in the current set up from the start of the story. They were originally intended to be a playable race so the ground work is already there. The only other race that could have been considered would be Centaur (but with the introduction of mounts is an impossibility).

250 years isn't enough time for any major changes in physiology. Given Humans are the only race out of the playable races that were found in Elona prior to 250 years ago (probably even within that 250 years until just recently) it wouldn't actually be realistic for any of the other races to have major appearance changes with the region. To put this in GW1 terms: Ritualists, Assassins, Paragons, and Dervish only had customization options for their respective campaigns. Rits and Assassins didn't even get updated looks for Nightfall release and not a single class got updated appearances for EotN. You only found Asura in the Maguuma, Norn in the Shiverpeaks, and Charr in Ascalon/Blazeridge until 250 years ago and not a single one of them seriously migrated. Humans, on the other hand, are everywhere and have been for a long time (not to mention we don't know how racially diverse they were when the gods brought them to Tyria in the first place). Though I do agree each race should get a little more love in the looks department it's just not a high priority and I, personally, prefer more worth while content over cosmetics.

I would LOVE to get Dagger/Dagger or land spear as a mid range set with a focus on Spirit weapons (acting like they did in GW1, but for a GW2 setting, would make them like Thieves venoms; AoE party buff [with, of course, Splinter Weapon being one of them for the Juicy AoE damage]). The class function could then be something like the Ashes (or some relic) of our currently equipped legend that would act similar to Engis kits (a full set of weapon skills depending on the legend). And with all that I REALLY hope the next legend is a villain as we're currently lacking on the bad vibs end with the current legend roster (Shiro and Mallyx being the only two).

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> all these are done with motion capture, so should be ok

>

Done with motion capture or not, the way the Charr and Asuran bodies are made doesn't work with a dance created by humans for humans. The Monk, for example, require leg movements that just wouldn't work when trying to force a Charr to do the same thing. Not only that but they are meant for characters that have an upright posture, not a slumped/hunched posture; something that even if you tried to correct it would further look wrong. Same issue with Asura in regards to their legs; though it wouldn't look as weird you'd be trying to force a race with short stubby legs to do a dance not fit for them. Belly dancing and Whirling Dervish could be done, sure; but again with the hunched posture of the Charr it simply wouldn't look/feel right. Taking dance styles made for humans and forcing them onto species that aren't designed to do them is not something easily done if you want it to look right and would require further animation beyond just motion capture if they ever attempted to try it.

> i think it more of a licensing issue, as the choreography of dances are copyrightable

> https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/fortnite-dance-lawsuit-1203092141/

>

And on the note of copyrighting dance routines: The reason I only mentioned Whirling Dervish, Belly Dancing, and Chi Routines (Could also further this to River Dancing, Mosh pit, and what ever the hell the Rangers do) is because none of those can actually be copyrighted unless you are looking at how a specific person is doing it and copy them to the T without their permission. Belly dancing is a style that anyone can do, alter, and make their own interpretation of. Whirling Dervish is a ceremonial Sufi dance that, sure, could draw some ire from some, maybe, possibly; but it's not something that can be copyrighted. And the Monks Chi Routines are the same as belly dancing; everyone is able to perform, alter, and interpret as they see fit.

As much as I would love to see some of the old dances come back it's not something they can really do and be fair about it. Charr would suffer, yet again, when it comes to how well the dances would transfer over. Some would look down right goofy. Imagine them doing the Twirling Dervish or attempting to belly dance like the female Ele or Rit. Or either Charr or Asura trying the monks Chi routines... Seeing Charr attempt those would be down right sad and painful to try and animate. Just wouldn't look right and people would complain even more about racial inequality. Would also mean more reasons for them to put off additional races ever being added (still crossing fingers that we get more in the future). Just easier for them to stick with racial dances and items that grant very basic, simple, dances.

Loved seeing these videos back in the day.

73.8% bd and am able to maintain 100% uptime. Full Diviners armor (Scholar runes), Diviners Trinkets, Berserker weapons with Conc and Force sigils. Only reason I can think of as to why you aren't getting 100% is because you swapped off Righteous Rebel.

The beauty of Tengu is that they can be, like birds irl, anywhere and everywhere. The further north we go we could easily find more Avicara tribes that didn't assimilate into the Dominion of Winds, much like the Quetzal Tribes of the Maguuma. We could also stumble upon other tribes closer resembling Ravens or Owls (which could easily tie into the story as being seen, by the Norn, as Raven or Owl blessed), or even smaller in sized Tengu (dwarf sized) resembling something like snow bunting.

_**Bringing them into the story and us into the Dominion of Winds**_: These tribes could be dealing with Jormags forces and end up seeking help from us. We form an alliance with them, defeat Jormag and its forces, and these tribes join the pact to help others in need and insure they have allies to come to their aid the next time they might need it. With these new tribes in the pact they can more easily persuade the tribes within the DoW to join our cause. If Jormag is awake after having been put to sleep by Taimi's machine then Primordus is sure to follow, if it's not already awake. The DoW finally recognize us as valuable allies and allow us into the Dominion to help cull the destroyers (maybe now increased numbers and strength [with the power of four dead Elder Dragons now boosting them]) that they can no longer hold back alone.

This could also work if they hold true to having the Races of Tyria as focus points for each story arc; HoT for Sylvari, PoF for Humans, and now Icebrood Saga for Charr and Norn. Given one race was completely uprooted by Primordus (Asura) and another is under constant assault within their own domain (Tengu) the next "Saga" could cover the both of them (could also see more of the Dwarves [those that are still alive anyways]). But of course this all boils down to whether Anet wants to finally give us Tengu or if they're just going to continue to write them off as side characters that should never play a significant roll in GW2, even though they were the second (maybe even the most) wide spread race and are as old and well known (to us vets anyways) as the Charr, Dwarves, and Humans.

Gunna go ahead and assume it's a visual bug that occurs with GS3 (Swoop). The spirit bird that is part of the animation sticks around after casting sometimes.

> I grew up in Canada... we have birds all winter and blizzards where temperatures are well below -40 C :)

^This. I live in an area that hits -20f during winter and we have birds here year round. Ravens, especially, which are what spawn, are known for living and remaining in cold climates. So not really immersion breaking.... Just very annoying game mechanic.