Kanto.1659

Friendly reminder that this is still going on. Fresh windows 10 install, felt like playing GW2, downloaded it. Made a new character. I keep getting DCed within a minute with an error 7. Switched Streaming to On Demand.

After the fourth DC and my very first heart still at 3/4ths I'm calling it quits.

Yeah, you basically discovered that we're good for 95% of the game, but the last 5% is what has everyone in an uproar. Someone linked in the 'necros are a meme' about real raid DPS logs and we're exactly middle of the pack. Half do more than we do, half do less.

In most of these cases I wonder about actual real benchmarks done live instead of spreadsheet maths.

What's the actual ICD of this shit? I'm honestly tired of this game and PoF is barely out. Fucking Legion kept me playing for nine fucking months.

Give up. No need to spam the forums. The almighty Anet has decided and won't even explain or listen. They live in Spreadsheet City and don't actually play the game.

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> Let's clarify then, since this PvE group content is "group content" and the way you share support force everyone to stay close together, you need to first stay close to your melee mates to be effective. There is also the fact that a lot of shroud effect happen around you only and these shroud effect are part of your dps.

I don't have much more to add to the conversation at this point, but I'd like to say I appreciate the conversation staying focused and not devolving into rude posturing. It is almost rare nowadays. Kudos.

Did you check that site I mentioned with raid logs? Obviously Scourge was victim of a three man dev team who did not have the time to test things so we need the tweaks coming tomorrow . But everything else you speak of still relates to the mythical benchmarks achieved on dummies.

And since when does a Scourge need to be melee like a ranger does? Seriously? Scepter is their weapon of choice. The shades are ranged. At most the cone from the torch is the closest to melee they need to be, and at that it's medium range and even if unable to use it its one skill only. The ranger needs to be in melee for the shortbow cone, for the axe cone, for the torch #5, and for both traps. An AoE spawns under the boss and we need to move away? The Scourge is pewpewing while the ranger is mashing their #1.

This whole conversation is the same as the Beastmaster VS Markmanship Hunters have in WoW. BM has no cast times, and in theory is lesser damage. MM is more damage, but needs to hold still to cast, which is a problem in a game field with one shot mechanics. In practice despite lower potential damage BM does well in anything but the most tank-and-spank bosses since an easy rotation done on the run allows to catch up while others have to stop and move.

Hell, I'm all for buffing Scourge. Necro is my main. I'm just talking of the very specific thing which is potential VS actual damage numbers.

So many serious answers to what i blatant trolling. Guy mus be rolling reading all of this.

No. I can assure you neither will do 30k or 34k in a real scenario. Once people get away from this theoretical fairyland where theoretical benchmarks are achieved and use instead REAL benchmarks the ones who will be used are the ones who can spam their most forgiving rotation. Scourge, for all its faults, can be played 100% at range, where I was severely irked playing my condiranger in fractals just yesterday because I constantly had to stay away from bosses since AoEs spawned under their feet and I could not lay my traps.

This kind of thing does not show in benchmarks but is the kind of thing that shows in real use of a class. There are sites where raiders put their logs. If you want to compare stop using QT benchmarks and pull logs from there.

You might see different rankings than the ones worshiped on an altar by the GW2 community.

Scourges are for WvW what Spellbreakers are for sPvP. Neither of them are designed for PvE and I doubt the devs will change any of this since they are doing well for the game modes they were intended for.

> @Lyger.5429 said:

> > @kKagari.6804 said: writing up the notes on patch day.

>

> Have you seen some of the changes in the past?? 10% physical damage on [fire bomb](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Bomb "fire bomb") or reducing aftercast of a skill by 0.002 seconds (I don't even know how this makes a difference). Feels like they both make the changes and write them up just hours before the patch.

The funny part is that _'reducing the aftercast by 0.2 seconds'_ is the kind of fine tuning we expect from a game that has a delicate touch on the meta's pulse. The kind of thing that will raise or decrease the damage by a few milimetric %. This is -not- GW2 with disparities of 5-7k between specs or classes.

Sigh. Bugs that help players are fixed within the hour if need be. Bugs that hinder the player take between a month to three years.

Bleah.

A 'fix' and three weeks of being a wet noddle?

> @dceptaconroy.7928 said:

> Id just like to be honest and go on record as saying im also unhappy with the state of necro but i dont mind that this thread is nothing but extreme fear mongering devoid of basic objectivity.

You're not very good at this game.

By doing the LS3 dailies you can get backpack + jewelry as viper, leaving only the armor.

Yes, you've 100% nailed it. The fact we apply barrier accidentally as we go is what gets us pegged as 'heavy support' and what makes barriers so weak and why they won't be upgraded. For barriers to become useful they need to be a trade-off. Do damage? Do a barrier instead? If I do barrier then it will be a good barrier, strong, that will last.

I was reading up to half way through and then gave up since it turned into bickering that didn't show signs of stopping. REAL damage is what matters, not theoretical. Yes, QT golem tests are a benchmark. But few reach it during a real encounter.

I have a friend I played with in WoW. Despite the same spec, about the same gear, and hitting the same numbers when we were both side by side hitting a training dummy their numbers were consistently a full 30% lower than mine during the raids. APM, managing to keep rotations going while doing mechanics, managing to stay alive, an easy rotation that can be kept going are things that make the difference.

No one ever uses training dummy numbers in WoW. No one happily shows their best while hitting a dummy (in fact, the concept would be met with amusement). Every time showing off comes in OR when a benchmark is called upon ONLY raid logs are used.

I know GW2 has something like those raid log sites, so use it instead of QT benchmarks, sheesh. Obviously don't pull out the numbers of someone who had to do particular mechanics that are necessary to not wipe the raid which will break their damage.

Minions, yes, but it is never ever going to happen. It's a PvPcentric game even if the PvP crowd is disillusioned. As thus a body of AI targets running around and doing -well- will never be accepted. We can have a body of AI targets going around, as long as they are useless, IE MM necros, but no one wants a useless specialization.

GW1 necro was amazingly fun. Only one type of summon if I remember correctly, and we had to have a corpse to raise a mob, which doesn't translate very well in gameplay since some maps were about mobs that did not have corpses, but in those maps that worked wooooo. I have fond memories of going around with my huge posse and trying to keep the army rolling.

City of Heroes had a great pet class called the Mastermind. Lovely. T1 was three weak NPCs, usually melee. T2 was two NPCs, usually ranged and with utiity. T3 was a single tank/bruiser. Depending on the specialization they would be a street gang, ninjas, zombies, or, my favorite, robots. The summoner did very little damage, they would be about buffing, debuffing, and trying to keep their summons alive.

It would never happen here. Just remember the furor that was mobile ranger spirits, and they only body blocked and provided buffs.

I'm not rerolling because I already have other characters, but the enjoyment derived from the class has one down that's for sure. My second favorite is a FB. I love the heavy armor looks compared to the icky ball room dresses light armor has, but it's squishy compared to the necro and I prefer the headcannon of holo monsters following my techie asura.

As someone else said, they can buy , pick a class because they enjoy the mechanics, play the game, then come out of it happy with the experience. Or they can buy an MMO, pick a class because they like the mechanics/theme, then have a dev randomly approach and decide to change, nerf, remove, add, and the class they were enjoying is gone. Now what? Pick another? Start over? Myeah.

To say no one noticed this bug in all the time of the beta is sad. Sad. Sad. Really sad. Pathetic even? Perhaps not, but at least sad. It has to come out as it is to suddenly have a dev go _'Oooooooooh wait, this isn't good, lol!'._

Unfortunately this is not just GW2. One of the last patches when I was still playing WoW introduced new skills. A week later one of them for the Hunters was nerfed in FIFTY PERCENT! Not five, not ten. Not even fifteen. But fifty. Because apparently it was too strong when combined with a different skill and with one of the legendaries. Did no one test this? How did it leave the spreadsheets and come to the testing stage, then the game, and no one noticed? ...because there was no testing, maybe?

Were I a bit meaner and I'd say these 'bugs' were actually know, devs aware of, buuuuut allowed to sliiiiiiide so that new players or old players would be oooooh, so nice, so strong! Must play! Of course once the honeymoon is over it's back to business.

I don't expect common sense such as tweaks to increase power to come along with a bug fix that is a huge fix.

The whole decay idea is shit and a result of GW2 being at core a PvP game. Don't expect miracles. With a bit of elbow grease they could have PvE and PvP splits for barrier since it's 'heavy support' (haha.. oh god...) even if reducing the max barrier possible to 25%. If an Aegis can soak 100% of damage then barrier being perma up and soaking 25% tops doesn't seem broken. Still not particularly useful, maybe, but it may save the lower HP classes from being one shot, which is something a druid can't help with their reactive healing.

It's the problem of playing a PvP game in PvE, while in 2017, and refusing to do a complete skill split. Shall we nerf/buff a class because of PvP? Then, because of PvP, PvE will be hit. This created insane roaring in WoW when I played it and it happened. But 'lo, they introduced templates and nowadays patch notes have a PvP and a PvE section and never do the two cross paths again.

Apparently, a difficult thing to obtain in GW2. Just like having a night option for the forums, very complicated, can't be done. Players done it. Apparently it wasn't that complicated after all?

> @Amenon.9126 said:

> Again, its the necromancer community's fault for this. If we were voicing our concerns higher and not just sit and swallow, the story would be different. Bring the pitchforks, demand for this to be a playable class, that we all paid for! And not next month, but today! We have every right to be as happy as every other class out there. Currently, every single class in the game has a viable spec for raiding. Every single one, apart from necromancer.

In what world do you live in that forum protests change anything? The devs bunker down, close all communication. The community rages, demands explanations, pitchforks are raised. A week later no changes, no communication. Two weeks later no changes, no communication. You can't keep a community in an uproar for ever. More importantly, it does nothing. Power Reaper, anyone? Taken to the back and given a shot to the head and then ignored? You think there were no protests? No uproar?

No, this is Spreadsheet City. I can picture the devs talking between themselves as they examine graph bars, _'Look guys. In this perfect scenario here the necro has full life force, they wait until the attack is about to land, and spam their barrier and thus will have soaked X thousands of damage! It's amazing, players are going to love it. This is some good heavy support here!'_

We leave Spreadsheet City and, well, I won't bother re-iterating what has been repeated ad nauseum about the *real* support barriers grant and which we are going to be balanced around.

> @Lily.1935 said:

> > @Axl.8924 said:

> > Personally i wonder if necro is going to be viable as a scourge support currently as is? one guy was talknig about how you could apply barrier and be a hp bar raiser to help healers.Is that actually enough to make necros desired for raids and fractals?

>

> Raids? Absolutely not. Fractals? Absolutely not. And the reason for my answer for Fractals is because barrier is impacted by agony at the same rate as healing. So, no and no.

That's right. I was doing fractals a few days in a row with a friend. She plays melee and is squishy getting downed in a regular basis. As we did them I thought _'Well, my barriers will be helping her stay alive'_ and then kept noticing how we'd end a fight and she'd have something like 20% and think _'...well, my barriers aren't really helping as much as I thought they would'_ and only later did it click in my head that our _heavy support_ is castrated in one game mode.

Well, I guess that if we do normal dungeons the barriers will help her.

> @Shazmataz.1423 said:

> My main question is if this was a bug why wasn't it fixed before PoF release? Or immediately after? Feels ripped off

Whoa man, do you think that there is time to test things once they are out of the spreadsheets? That's crazy talk.

>Keep in mind that the specialization probably won't hit previous DPS potential (as it has heavy support built in), but we do intend for it to go up from where it's currently at.

>>Keep in mind that the specialization probably won't hit previous DPS potential (as it has heavy support built in)

>>>won't hit previous DPS potential (as it has heavy support built in)

>>>> as it has heavy support built in

>>>>>heavy support