Azreell.1568

> @"Kachros.4751" said:

> id like to point out that neither of these answers are actually relevent to dealing with a renegade that uses more than 5 IQ, you cannot CC them due to stability road from jalis, and you cant kill them because of the huge aoe spam that has 0 counterplay other than blocking. This build is not skillful unless in the hands of some players (namely azzurs who uses this build to a high level and is clearly better than most other, if not every other, renegade), for the most part its a spammable, non counterplayable and non interactive build that requires basic knowledge to win fights (being road then spirits) as it continues to gatekeep every other sidenoder currently. Unless you have a block your only option is to fully get off the point should the spirits be there.

No strip protection - like honestly strips can literally ruin this builds day.

Limited stab ( Pulsing stab on roads for what ? 5 secs , and dark razor as a stun break and 1 sec stab)

Limited damage if you don't stand in the field.

That's just a few of the weaknesses.

If you are running in solo yolo vs a build designed to bunker what did you think was going to happen?

+1 the build just like you have to +1 various other builds and this thing drops like a rock - especially if you understand how the build works.

Or simply bring a ranger and watch them pew pew this thing to death without even a scratch.

I mean honestly anytime there is a build that is a little challenging to fight all I see are nerf posts. Then people wonder why Conquest feels to plain and vanilla - you've continually asked to nerf any and all diversity.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Azreell.1568" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > We're BORED. We can't languish like this until End of Dragons. Honestly please push back the expansion and make a good balance patch first. Don't just let the game fester and ignore it whilst you power-develop the elite specs.

> > >

> > > Right now, you have put every skills/balance dev to work on the new spec and left them with 20 minutes at the end of each two months to assemble a smattering of changes. Slow down the expansion and make sure a good patch or two gets out the door first.

> >

> > Not that I don’t want improved balance but.....

> >

> > You realize what you are asking is about as possible as world peace right?

>

> What? lol. I do not believe that nerfing Renegade and Holosmith would be nearly as difficult as achieving world peace or summoning Jesus or finding Excalibur.

>

> >

> > First, This game mode even at its height was a small fraction of the overall gw2 player base.

> >

> > PvE has always and will always be the primary supported mode for gw2.

> >

> > For lack of better terms it creates revenue in various forms where pvp does not.

>

> I'm so tired of hearing that. It's 2020 and we have skill splits in pve/pvp now. Balance the game imo.

>

> >

> > So you want them to slow down development of an x-pac which will make them tons of money to release a balance patch which will basically make them none.

>

> Saying that is like looking to the left without ever noticing what's on the right. Likewise, if pvp balance & mechanics, as well as general development like new modes & maps had been paid attention to over the years, imagine the player base that may have come from that, or even the income of some special items that could have been purchase from the gem shop that were developed specifically for pvp.

>

> >

> > Point blank every single one of us conquest players could quit playing today and quite frankly it would not have much of an impact on gw2 overall and tbh i would venture to bet the revenue loss would be almost non existent.

>

> It was that same attitude for 5 or 6 years now, that drove all the player base away, which were players who were buying things in the gem shop, and who were also playing pve.

>

> >

> > If you want competitive pvp this isn’t the game for you.

>

> ^ That is true unfortunately.

>

>

The those are the only two lines that matter in the end.

What the small conquest player base wants can't be expected from this type of game.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> These bots hide that they are bots rather well nowadays. I mean it's to the point that you wouldn't really notice unless you knew what to look for, and were going out of your way to pay attention to that player.

>

> Some of you guys seem to be greatly underestimating how far along the bot programs have come in GW2.

>

> Examples of things to pay attention to, from what I've noticed about the difference between bots and actual bad players:

>

> * Bad players generally get upset if people say anything to them at all. They'll say something back or start arguments, sometimes afk without saying anything. Sometimes bad players noticeably begin getting disinterested in the match when they do poorly, and you see them linger for 10s or something when they respawn before they walk back out. But bots literally 100% completely ignore everything said to them, say nothing back, they don't afk or linger in spawn. Without skipping a beat or showing any response to communication in any way, they continue doing the exact same thing the entire match.

> * Actual bad players have jumpy skittish WASD movement. If you really pay attention to real players, just like how a person writes by hand or draws with a pencil, you can see unique signatures in how a person uses their WASD movement keys, and even things like how they like to stand when they are capping a node, or how they like to run in a circle when they are capping a node, ect ect. All the bots walk directly to the very center of the node and stand still while capping it. When I say the center of the node, I mean like mathematically within the game parameters X Y Z axis, they are perfectly standing in the exact center of the node all of the time every time. Bots move from point A to point B and never show any unique signatures in movement whatsoever. Even the bot programs that have attempted to replicate human movements, they still obviously move like a bot, with complete disregard for higher human thinking map awareness, and generally only ever react if a player strikes them with an attack <- That's important to pay attention to.

> * When I come over a hill from say mid in legacy to far in legacy, if a bad player is standing on the far node and sees me as Gank coming at him, they start moving around and acting a bit panicky. They seem to not really be sure what they should be doing. They sudden dodge roll for no reason, to try and intuitively dodge some LB attack before it happens. Then they try to cast a symbol at me or something, before deciding they are going to leave the node and attempt to LOS. Actual bad players are again, skittish and fumbly as all hell, very visually. A bot on the other hand, will stand on that node facing me, and do absolutely nothing as it stands in perfect center of the node, and it won't react to me until I get within some mid range threshold where it can use its attacks, or until I open up a 1500+ range burst on it. <- No actual real player would stand there and literally do nothing when a high powered ranged class was walking directly at them and obviously positioning itself to nuclear strike them as they stood there in the center of node letting it happen, as if the burst wasn't going to down them in 1/2 a second.

> * Bots will respond to the same things in the same way every time. I mean I could engage a bot and kill it 15x in a match, and it will never learn that it should move out of the way from the center of the node when it sees me coming. It'll never learn that it should stealth when it sees me, or use blink and go away. It'll do the same stupid things every time. I'll open a burst on it as it stands there and attempts to cycle through phantasms to prime its main offense on node, as if it weren't going to die in 1/2 a second. Does the same thing every time. Even a player on their first day of play would learn after dying once or twice to a good player, that they need to do something different.

> * And finally, bots never use terrain. A good example is Skyhammer jump pads. The bots just aren't keenly designed enough to know how to jump up a pad on a side node and get away or at least attempt to get away. They'll stand there on the node and do the same thing they would on any other node, as if the jump pads weren't even there. Bots also completely ignore objectives. They only go to nodes and sometimes follow players to engage combat. They are not keenly designed enough to incorporate playing for objectives in the way that you'd clearly see humans doing, at least not that I've seen. Real players, even bad ones, will do things like jump up and over boxes or try to LOS in strange places or be very cowardly and go in and out and in and out of the spawn doors in legacy. Bots never do things like this. They only walk in a simple pathing from node to node and sometimes follow players for engagement in a simple pathing.

> * Oh and one more thing. Despite how bad in combat the bot is, they are always amazingly accurate with their interrupt skills, such as mantra of distraction. The one thing the bots can do better than a human is computer reflex know exactly when you're using a heal skill, and immediately push that instant interrupt CC as soon as you begin casting your heal. So when a player is amazingly bad in combat but somehow savant like at interrupting your heal utility, yeah that's a bot.

>

> When you see players who act like this ^ 99% guarantee you it's a bot.

Also, most of this can be done by a player as well who is not a bot.

But, I have to say. With you watching all this it amazes me you can ever complete a pvp match and be productive ....

> @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > @"Azreell.1568" said:

> > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > > I've been actively playing sPvP for 4 years...Naturally, I've played across the majority of divisions - from low silver to high plat. I've experienced many skewed matches due to messed up match making, I've seen win traders / throwers / afkers and generally 'bad' players a plenty...but I am yet to see a bit with my own eyes.

> > > I'm not saying they do not exist, they might in fact if we are to believe some convincing video proof popping up from time to time. But every time when I see a statement - "OMG! BOTS IN EVERY MATCH!", I ask myself - Am I doing something wrong? Am I playing a different game? ~~What is real? Who am I? ~~

> > > -Shrug-

>

> > Someone doesn't move for 20 secs - OMG REPORT BOT

>

> >

> >

> Uh, yeah. You deserve to b reported for botting/afk if you leave for twenty seconds during a match.

>

Things Happen - this is simply just a recreational game after all.

You are 100% the current problem with the false BOT / AFK reports and why their system is overwhelmed and not able to actually get rid of the real bots.

Posts like these are why balance is an impossible feat.

Any type of spec that presents a challenge in a specific situation ( not even all situations ) and people want to give up and have anet win the fight for them by nerfing the class.

I miss the old school pvp games and pvp'ers .

:(

P.S. That spec has so many hard counters it isn't even funny. Perhaps try using some of them.

> @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> I've been actively playing sPvP for 4 years...Naturally, I've played across the majority of divisions - from low silver to high plat. I've experienced many skewed matches due to messed up match making, I've seen win traders / throwers / afkers and generally 'bad' players a plenty...but I am yet to see a bit with my own eyes.

> I'm not saying they do not exist, they might in fact if we are to believe some convincing video proof popping up from time to time. But every time when I see a statement - "OMG! BOTS IN EVERY MATCH!", I ask myself - Am I doing something wrong? Am I playing a different game? ~~What is real? Who am I? ~~

> -Shrug-

I have to agree completely.

Have I seen a few bots here and there ? Sure I have, but overall I'm not sure what game a lot of you are playing because I don't seen them nearly as much.

I think this goes back to the whole meme thing.

Pretty much "OMG REPORT BOT " is now in line with the boy who cried wolf.

Someone doesn't play to "your" standards - OMG REPORT BOT

Someone doesn't move for 20 secs - OMG REPORT BOT

Someone doesn't +1 - OMG REPORT BOT

Someone keeps going to the center node - OMG REPORT BOT

Someone misses a stomp - OMG REPORT BOT

See the problem?

What is amazing is people keep forgetting one point about GW2.

It was sold as a casual friendly game - yet the conquest population complains when casual people play it.

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> We're BORED. We can't languish like this until End of Dragons. Honestly please push back the expansion and make a good balance patch first. Don't just let the game fester and ignore it whilst you power-develop the elite specs.

>

> Right now, you have put every skills/balance dev to work on the new spec and left them with 20 minutes at the end of each two months to assemble a smattering of changes. Slow down the expansion and make sure a good patch or two gets out the door first.

Not that I don’t want improved balance but.....

You realize what you are asking is about as possible as world peace right?

First, This game mode even at its height was a small fraction of the overall gw2 player base.

PvE has always and will always be the primary supported mode for gw2.

For lack of better terms it creates revenue in various forms where pvp does not.

So you want them to slow down development of an x-pac which will make them tons of money to release a balance patch which will basically make them none.

Point blank every single one of us conquest players could quit playing today and quite frankly it would not have much of an impact on gw2 overall and tbh i would venture to bet the revenue loss would be almost non existent.

If you want competitive pvp this isn’t the game for you.

> @"zinkz.7045" said:

> WvW has been dead for years (at least on EU), unless you are a roleplayer with very lower standards. It is basically a primetime only game (and even then it is mostly pretty pitiful), most matchups are so bad they are that level people used take the week off back when the game was healthier. Basically WvW is a flawed game mode, but for the first 4 or so years of the game there were enough tryhard players / guilds to paper over the issues and make it playable, the vast majority of those players left (or play once in a blue moon), the game mode was done.

>

> PvP took longer to hit that level of decline, but it is also in a pitiful state, its only redemption is that it actually functions as a game mode and copes much better with a low pop and the various levels of casual to tryhard than WvW does.

>

>

Can't speak on behalf of eu but last nite every map on my linking was qued "shrug".

The issue isn't what spec can kill this build - because quite frankly many specs can.

The actual problem is the time it would take to do it.

Condi rev for example doesn't have a hard time with this build at all but it would be a longer fight which generally isn't worth it.

Your time would be better served going to another node to capture it unless you +1d the guard.

For a ranged encounter all things being equal except class:

Deadeye & Ranger would be the top picks.

> @"Sifu.9745" said:

> PvP is still a thing, especially unranked PvP is very alive, while ranked is a bit ... messy. But WvW maps are completely empty. I can barely find a squad maybe once per a week. Most of the time i am forced to play solo or with 2 or 3 more people, which doesn't suit my playstyle, because i am not kind of a roamer. I have no idea why no one plays WvW these days ...

This is completely false.

Wvw is far more active then PvP and has been for a long time.

It has more specific time zone's for it's activity but I have accounts from T1-T4 and on various linkings and at any given nite I never have a hard time find any group or pug to join - most of the time the maps are que'd.

Cliff note version of most of the replies:

"Hey, You didn't nerf the class or spec I don't like or have problem with"

"Useless Patch"

Pretty much sums it up....

> @"ramorambo.6701" said:

> Basically what the title says, i absolutely hate 2v2 or 3v3, many builds are just not viable and people in pubs just play with their monitor turned off, why is 3v3/2v2 enforced rather than put together with the next 5v5 season?

There are many people who like the 2v2 - 3v3 options.

So while I respect your opinion , not everyone is on the same page as you.

> @"Fearless.3569" said:

> The state of Ele is the main reason I don't look to give GW2 a solid 2nd shot.

But you care enough to post on the forums?

Here is the issue.

This game will never have balance. No game will have the type of balance the pvp community desire's because it is impossible in the mmorpg setting.

Quite frankly no mmo to date I have ever played ( dating back to merridian 59 and uo) ever had balance.

There were always and will always be dominant specs and or classes for certain game modes or periods of time.

As long as mmorpg's have been mainstream - it's odd people haven't figured this out yet.

All these "balance" patches do is make a new round of FOTM specs to compete with and then " nerf" many of the current common FOTM specs.

That is absolutely no different them Anet telling us , " Okay for the next 4-6 months These are the classes we are slotting in to be competitive in pvp and these are the classes we are removing.

The above is no different then a roster change.

Granted , some classes stay on the roster longer then others but you get the point.

I think it would server Anet far better to simply state that openly. Because, for whatever reason the current crop of mmo player's don't seem to be catching on to that concept.

> @"Supreme.3164" said:

> Trying to build an entire elite spec on top of a weak core class it's like trying to build a castle ...in the middle of a swamp; without a strong foundation you cannot hope to build something that will last the "testament of time" .

>

> It's 2020, we are the doorstep of a 3rd expansion...and we still have professions with very weakened core concept, that lack identity and purpose...no utility in any spectrum of the game, what kind of balance is that? If I have to make a comparison.....

>

> S ) Guardian and Necro - they both serve a purpose, have strong trait choices

>

> A ) Ranger, Revenant , Thief - they are very viable and fun to play

>

> B ) Warrior and Mesmer - somehow usable and offer a reliable foundation for future elites, easy to fix with numbers

>

> C ) Elementalist and Engineer - Terrible in all aspects , outdated weapon skills and utilities , that little good they have get constantly dumped on to reign in powerful elites **created as compensation for the abysmal state of the core counterpart**

>

> B ) and C ) need immediate attention , we need skill reworks here urgently....and honestly I don't know **how you're trying to create a 3rd elite while ignoring the sorry state of some core professions**

Your entire post is simply wrong and impossible.

First, most mmorpgs with few exceptions were designed from the ground up as pve games with pvp as an after thought - this game included.

Next in an mmorpg unlike fps’s there are too many classes, skills and variables to ever achieve true balance.

Also, let’s be frank from a company standpoint pvp modes or games speaking about mmorpgs ( FPS or mobas excluded) are not as profitable nor ever have been as pve based games.

All we have now is the perpetual carrot on a stick chasing imaginary balance which can never be achieved in the current direction we are going.

We would be better served by realizing certain classes and specs are simply dominant in this mode and only working with those.

Diversity will always lead further away from balance.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > > > > @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > There are so many counters to Lich, it's a player's own fault for not using them. Well, on most classes anyway. Let's take a look realistically at who should be having problems with Lich and who shouldn't.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * War - Enormous mobility to leave the Lich and LOS as freely as the War wishes. Standard Spellbreaker builds also have block and full counter on hand, along with 50% of their weapon skills & utilities being CCs to be able to break through the pulsing stab and stun the lich. The War can even have reflect on its shield to make the Lich hit itself. I don't see the problem here with War vs. Lich.

> > > > > > * Guard - Usually not situated well for escape to LOS so it does end up often needing to tank Lich. However Guard has so so many blocks and an invuln. It also has enough damage to burst and down a Lich before he's even 3 or 4 auto casts in on the Guard. I dunno guys, the Guard's focus is 3x blocks and a single pop of f3 is a 4th block. The shield 4 is another aegis, the shield 5 is a reflect, and then Guard has invuln. Then if we're talking DH with f3 shield of courage, the blocking thickens, and if we're talking FB, the sheer amount of reflect bubbles just becomes overwhelming. I don't understand how a Guard isn't able to deal with Lich for 10s, unless the Lich is +ing him and creating a 2v1 against the Guard.

> > > > > > * Rev - So many sources to deal with 10s ranged auto spam, including heal when hit, reflects, massive CC, evading while attacking, and pop Impossible Odds to get out and get to LOS. The Rev shouldn't be dying to Lich. At least not in a 1v1 situation.

> > > > > > * Engi - Flashbang blind & auto passive CC in conjunction with all of the other CCs to stun the Lich. Lots of bubbles, lots of blockings, randomly stealth, randomly Moa elixir, lots and lots of damage, Flashbang, invuln, more Flashbang, strong mobility to get to LOS. The Engi shouldn't be dying to Lich unless he's getting +d by the Lich.

> > > > > > * Thief - "I can outrun a centaur!!" comes to mind here. Why would you stay near the Lich when it goes into Lich? Just instantly teleport half way across the map to safety. Oh and also, stealth and more stealth and even more stealth. Dying to a Lich as a Thief is kind of potato. Sure, the Lich may surprise you, but that's your own fault as the Thief player who stayed in combat too long bottoming out his init & CDs when he didn't have any escape left to play on.

> > > > > > * Ranger - Stealth LB3, Evade GS3, Block GS4, Evade LR, even more evades with weird sword/dagger builds, lots of mobility to quickly peel to LOS, plenty of CC that can be used to stun the Lich. Oh and by the way, why is the Necromancer alive to be able to Lich you if you are a LB Ranger? Even Druid builds have sources of reflect to play on. Ranger on 9/10 builds ran has everything it needs to defense play through a 10s Lich.

> > > > > > * Mes - Pretty much same conclusion as Thief. GET OUT when it Liches. If you don't, that's your own fault. Your mobility & stealth & detargeting is in-design for a reason, use it. Mes also has the elite that super hard counters Lich, Signet Of Humility.

> > > > > > * Necro - Mirror so no need to go into detail here. May the biggest Lich win.

> > > > > > * Ele - Tempest & Weaver are very seriously the hardest targets in the game to hit with ranged attacks. Nothing more needs to be said.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I feel like "Lich is OP" complaints are stemming from a place of frustration more than anything else. People know Lich is easy to play around, and that makes it extra frustrating when they aren't paying attention and end up dying to it. <- I've been talking about this for years now, and it is every bit the same effect that things like Ranger burst or Pistol/Pistol Thief or Rifle Deadeye has. These ranged attacks feel frustrating and OP at bell curve & bellow, but at higher tiered margins these ranged attacks are actually difficult to land effectively against stronger players because the stronger plays know all of the easy things they can do to completely avoid such slow immobile telegraphs.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **A bit of advice: When you fight a Necromancer, assume that Lich is going to happen and begin preparing for it early. Try that out for a day or two, and then come back into this thread and tell us all how OP Lich is.**

> > > > >

> > > > > With this logic, give me the old damage on rampage, since you can run away or line of sight it. (There is a reason I had the disclaimer on this topic for this kind of post).

> > > > >

> > > > > Lich form is very easy to cheese, I have also seen a huge number of players abusing the Ripple of Horror into Deathly Claws while under quickness. Skills should not be in the game which have insane damage procs. I completely dissagree with the design of giving a win button to classes (like the oldschool rampage was (10k homing throw rock crits)).

> > > > >

> > > > > I'll add this disclaimer again:

> > > > >

> > > > > TOPIC DISCLAIMER - THIS IS NOT AN INVITE FOR PEOPLE TO POST 'LINE OF SIGHT THEM' OR 'ITS EASY TO COUNTER' *

> > > > >

> > > > > *this skill is beyond defending in its current state (same with a few one trick ponies that are still in the game)

> > > > "DON'T MENTION ANY OF THE MILLION THINGS THAT COUNTER OR NEUTRALIZE LICH, DANGIT! IT'S DAMNING TO MY BASELESS ASSERTION THAT THEY ARE UNSTOPPABLE GODS WHO NEED TO BE 99% NERFED AND HAVE THEIR ACCOUNTS BANNED!!!"

> > > >

> > > > If I can survive lich with a scourge minion-mancer, you have no excuse. I literally just use LOS and dodges with barrier and carapace, same as always. And I suck, so I'm not outplaying anyone with my no-mobility build. Stay alive for 10 seconds MAYBE 3 times a game. That's it.

> > >

> > > Hyperbolic much? It's not a baseless assertion when 3 hits from a Lich will kill just about everything. Oh, you're hyper toughness and barrier loaded build survived it? Congrats, anyone else who doesn't have a projectile block gets dumpstered. Also, this isn't the Arena; instant LoS access isn't always available and sometimes the shots will just ignore the object and hit you around them anyway.

> > >

> > > How about we make lich not get ruined by projectile blocks but not destroy anything that doesn't save one specifically for Lich?

> >

> > In other words, no build should have hard counters? I disagree. This game would be boooooooring with that type of homogenization.

>

> Lich form isn't a build.

It’s a specific Gm talent that is based off a power build.

Once again this talent has so much counter play already it isn’t even funny.

The entire ideology of the op is a large reason why this game mode has gotten so stale.

There is a huge lack of build diversity already in this game mode and posts like these just further that problem......

To clarify - the cliff note version of the original posters topic is:

I don’t feel that I should have to move when being focused by an elite ability with a large cool down.

And just when I thought the nerf posts couldn’t get any more silly, someone always surprises me..........

Another nerf thread about x class.

It’s going to get to the point where all class play is so generic and homogenized that even less people play then now.

Here is a crazy thought.

WvW balance is centered around large group play.

Not roaming

Not small scale

So your entire complaint is a non factor tbh.

> @"Taylan.2187" said:

> > @"shippage.1983" said:

> > reported for posting vallun

>

> What's the story behind this, did he make a lot of people mad? :D

Vallun is the man.

Period.

..........................................

Of all the current "meta" specs Reaper is about as close to being balance as we have ever gotten in this game imo.

Spec is very strong in the hands of a skilled player and viable in the hands of a newer player.

It has tons of hard counters and is easily shut down if not played correctly or gets caught off guard.

And, This is the spec you people want to complain about and get nerfed?

I have lost all hope in gw2 pvp and its community.

> @"felix.2386" said:

> reaper's problem is lich...

>

> and walk+wurm is kinda good.

>

> and spec walk away, pre cast lich and walk back is basically instant lich pop out of no where

Unless you are partially blind and that huge glowing green trail that spectral walk leaves when used is not a good enough tell?

Wow.

Is there anything this player base will not complain about?

I mean post after post of hey I lost to X class plz nerf.

Then people wonder why we keep losing more and more players.

Of all things , Reaper? I don't even play the class and realize it's pretty well balanced and has tons of hard counter play.

My god people....................

Well in fairness to the OP - I do have to agree on a fundamental level.

Since this games launch we have seen nerf after nerf after nerf and balance has only ever gotten more out of hand.

Buffs on the other hand have happened but far less then nerfs.