Inguz.6493
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Posts posted by Inguz.6493
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I find it strange because you have to constantly move in and out of melee range, and if you don't do this dance you are very susceptible to area of effect, direct damage and stuns. One would think that a warrior would be all about trying to be glued to the face of your enemy, but not really. Plus, you have to be very cautious to charge into group fights or you'll get stuck in chains of stuns and just die. It's extremely punishing if you make a mistake, although spellbreaker is more forgiving than core or berserker.
I also play necromancer, and the difference is night and day. With my necro, I don't have to break any and all stuns that come my way, and I can face tank anyone for a relatively long time (not saying that face tanking with necro is a good idea if you can avoid it, but it's possible).
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> @"Black Storm.6974" said:
> > @"Inguz.6493" said:
> > > @"Black Storm.6974" said:
> > > > @"Inguz.6493" said:
> > > > I've been playing my necro (core condi) a lot lately, before and after the nerf. I feel that the nerfs are justified. Before the patch, I was too resilient in 1v1 situations, and in all fairness, I don't feel the effect of the nerfs _that much_. It's fine, really.
> > >
> > > Yours is one build. Many other different builds can be played. These changes reduce “build diversity”, by a lot.
> > >
> > > Also, I feel like reducing the impact of traits in the build makes the game boring. Traits can give many different abilities and change how a class is played, what a class can do. Reducing their impact makes different builds more similar to each other.
> >
> > Which builds, though? Core power? Minion Master? Scourge won't be affected by the Shroud nerfs. (Not sure if Shroud nerfs affects Reaper or not?)
>
> Unfortunately Ritual of Life was a very big portion of the support capability of necromancer. Most of the support builds that are not tank builds got a heavy hit by this patch.
> Core power or condition dps/support (at least 4 viable builds), Reaper power dps/support (at least 3 viable builds), the tank variant of various builds, etc.
>
> While the tank variant of the builds could seem over performing with high resurrection capability, the dps variants were much more balanced. We had to ress fast otherwise “we” would die, we were loosing damage to take Blood Magic and other tools that allowed to offer some support without being immediately destroyed. We lost a lot of fun, enough effective, not very popular builds.
>
> I hope something else can be given to us, to help build variety. Usually, I don’t really enjoy playing “meta” (popular) builds and I'm not going to tank with my necromancers. I don’t enjoy having a lot of Health and suffer every “3 seconds” from CC skills I can’t counter.
>
> A lot of people also suggest to nerf life force generation, but... Don’t forget that necromancer is not only a tank. Life force is very important for every dps build, without it necromancer is extremely weak both offensively and defensively.
>
> I could also mention that right now an effective Scourge support build can not even exist both in PvP “and WvW”, and the nerf to Ritual of Life is another big hit to something that was already impossible to achieve. I wonder if and how ArenaNet will make supporting with Scourge “possible” again.
While I see your concerns and agree that each profession having more than one or two viable (albeit, perhaps some more niche ones) builds would be a good thing, you also have to take into account Arena Net's position. They had to nerf core condition survivability. Perhaps they could have butchered Blood Magic, but that seems even worse than nerfing shroud.
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> @"Black Storm.6974" said:
> > @"Inguz.6493" said:
> > I've been playing my necro (core condi) a lot lately, before and after the nerf. I feel that the nerfs are justified. Before the patch, I was too resilient in 1v1 situations, and in all fairness, I don't feel the effect of the nerfs _that much_. It's fine, really.
>
> Yours is one build. Many other different builds can be played. These changes reduce “build diversity”, by a lot.
>
> Also, I feel like reducing the impact of traits in the build makes the game boring. Traits can give many different abilities and change how a class is played, what a class can do. Reducing their impact makes different builds more similar to each other.
Which builds, though? Core power? Minion Master? Scourge won't be affected by the Shroud nerfs. (Not sure if Shroud nerfs affects Reaper or not?)
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I've been playing my necro (core condi) a lot lately, before and after the nerf. I feel that the nerfs are justified. Before the patch, I was too resilient in 1v1 situations, and in all fairness, I don't feel the effect of the nerfs _that much_. It's fine, really.
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It's no hyperbole to say that after some team fights where you last for a while but die, the top damage dealing condition could stack up to 50-60k. Likewise, chains of crowd control that makes you lose control of your character in situations where you cannot break out of it mean that you are helpless to any incoming damage. Both condition damage and crowd control does something unfun, they make you passive to their effects and remove player agency unless cleaned or broken. Comparatively, active damage does not remove player agency as it can be avoided.
That's the core issue that I and many others have in the current state of PvP, both condition damage and crowd control are run because of their effectiveness in dealing damage or setting up damage, not necessarily because they are top tier. Dishing out condition damage and crowd control is usually low effort but high yield. More active playstyles are thus not quite as appealing as they demand more from the player and that they are in a constant struggle with downing the enemy despite their agency.
Player agency is important because once you've run out of cleanses and stun breaks there's nothing that you can do about the situation that you are in. There's no possible clever outplay to dying to high condition damage or chains of crowd control. Once locked down, you're done for. Without agency, enjoyment is sapped out of the game mode.
It would be interesting to see win rates for condition heavy professions or elite specializations, but that's not what's truly important. The conquest mode is partially in an unfun state because of passive damage dealing effects and effects that remove all control from your character. Neither feels good to lose to and neither it feels like you could have played differently in order to have been victorious.
Player rating, skill, or what have you does not matter. This affects all aspects of player versus player at the moment, and we all feel its effect as it's a solid strategy right now. I'm not going to suggest any solutions, only state my issue with the current state of PvP. I think there should be room for condition damage and crowd control, too, just not be as rampant as it is now.
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> @"Shao.7236" said:
> > @"Inguz.6493" said:
> > > @"Shao.7236" said:
> > > @"Inguz.6493"
> > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwEM6MssAWCTkhxKxza6c1D-zZIOlGFBZKE6VBEwEwxDA That one, I don't know how you made yours work. I did say Knight's Amulet, if you're lacking damage that's because you're not stacking Might and using hard hitting skills after, it's not complicated to do so and gather nearly 20+ Might all the time, the AoE is no damage to rely on but can scare people off anyway. Reminder I'm not saying nerf, fix the lack of a target requirement for Combustive Shot.
> > >
> > > Bow 3 hurts and the rest of skills are useful for control, Axe hurts in general and Warhorn is great at blasting with sustain. Don't care about people burst damage with so much toughness and if it gets bad, balanced stances makes it nearly immune to power damage and control, To the Limit being a great resustain at 4 extra seconds for 30%~ more healing with emergency cleanses from Shake It Off while Adrenal Health becoming your better Healing Signet and Cleansing Ire being your shorter Condition Cleanse compared Mending. With everything you got a burst skill that hurts but also lets you live almost forever. Bonus if Axe Burst hits, but Bow right now is not a requirement and that's the problem I have with Warrior Bow.
> >
> > Mine works like other popular warrior specs in a way, using greatsword for mobility to not take damage, stacking as many damage-dealing talents I could think of. I'm sure it would be OK (but still less efficient) for lower ranks if it dealt more damage.
> >
> > Hm, I'm not sure how to stack might with your spec outside of Signet of Rage. Adrenal Health and is possibly fun, then how your build could deal meaningful damage outside of Signet of Rage I don't know. Running warhorn you miss axe 4 and 5. How does this spec work, you stand and tank? I'll try this if you tell me intended playstyle, do you stand at range and then what when you have 1+ enemy on top of you? Warriors in general are very dead if they can't break out of CC as most of their defensive abilities and heals are active and not passive.
> >
> > Anyway, even if what you claim is true, that it's abusable, I don't think anyone would mind a tanky bow warrior spec that can't deal much damage or shield block.
>
> It's good at wasting people time, not ultra DPS but gets the job done more easily because of this oversight. I do all my combo fields together to get max Might with the fire field, I don't use Signet of Rage because the adrenaline helps getting Axe/Bow burst consistently and that's what allow you to survive because you clear a lot and get better healing. Cycle all the skills as needed with weapons with all the possible synergy, it'll rarely get super stuck in bad situation because of all the passives and Knight's is pretty tanky with the nerfs while burst axe can still hit up to 5k if you count the evades before doing it, can also chain auto since stuff tickles. Balanced Stance is good if you're afraid to get blasted with Power since it's crit immunity and if you need to kite, free casting is possible and as said the fire field can pretty much scare anyone off if you really insist on contesting, it's also beneficial to your synergy since it's on the objective and with 25 Might, that's 750 condition damage. I say it exceeds at 1v1 though, can annoy 1v2, if you 50% people, that's free weakness making it worst on people trying to damage you as well.
>
> Td;lr, Tanky, has enough damage but not going to do it quickly. Preferably used on owned objectives.
I don't know, I've tried it a few games and once something like a ranger + mesmer is on top of you then you might as well just lie down to respawn faster. There was some healing in this build, I don't argue against that, but it's not much to hang in the Christmas tree when compared to something like holosmith that can be bulky and use ranged weapons at the same time. I don't see the issue, bow f1 is very slow to cast and requiring it to hit something on initial impact would mean that it's even less useful. Everything considered together, the sustain from healing is mediocre as sustain since once you have more than one person on top of you then you are dead. Axe f1 hits for maybe 3,5k crit at most, warhorn doesn't have much of an impact.
I'll admit, I had fun trying power bow build and bunker bow build just to test it, but it can't compete with the viability of the meta specs (or heck, just dual axe core or berserker, at least those two are pain trains once they are allowed to hit things).
Case closed for me, it's not the best build overall, and the "abusable" bow f1 with procs should be there to at least give bow some useful synergy with talents.
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> @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > @"DinesenDK.5067" said:
> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > @"DinesenDK.5067" said:
> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > @"DinesenDK.5067" said:
> > > > > > My experience is that Warrior, is in a fairly good place when it comes to spvp and pve (don't play WwW enough to know). However, it is far best at 1vs1, as it should be - Only problem these days is, that other classes, and builds does this better than Warrior, which makes it a real struggle to succeed at. Warrior in teamfights bigger than 2v2, is an absolutely no go. It simply gets melted due too too much boon corruption/removal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am not sure Warrior needs to hit harder, as I feel it is more a question about getting other classes/build into line with Warrior.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rush needs to be looked at, as it is very random at connecting - An idea could be to leave it as it is, and maybe even reduce the dps on it, but then give it a couple of secs Evade - It is used mostly for mobility afterall.
> > > > > > Then I look forward to reworks of a few traits, or hope so. :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lastly, I would love better build in stability, because as it is, it often feels like I'm more on the ground then actually fighting. Not sure that's the idea with Warrior.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On other notes...:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Something neeeds to be done about these things, which is already mention elsewhere
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ranger pets needs a nerf or an overall rework - too much dps and too many random CC
> > > > > > Burning is out whack one more then on build - Guard especially - Hits waaaaay too hard
> > > > > > Spamming slow/poison/Weakening/CC to the point where you can't use your abilities is a quick way to make Spvp unfun very fast
> > > > > > And then we have Shroud on Necro.... - Something needs to be done here as well, as they are godly tanks as it is, and that wins them the duel no matter how hard I am able to hit them
> > > > > >
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You can have resistance for days on warrior while playing spellbreaker! At the same time you can pack enough punch to rip a hole through everything if you know what to dodge ofc and not just randomly use that **rush**.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Full counter gives back 3 condis every 12s CD plus an evade and 100% "block"
> > > > > -Berseker stance
> > > > > -Feather grace
> > > > > -Shake it off
> > > > >
> > > > > And you still have "Signet of stamina" and "Mending"/ "Natural Healing" or go crazy with "Defiant Stance", if everything fail ( dunno how ) you can learn to CC/lock necros and & with hammer-mace/shield....**what more do you want?**
> > > > >
> > > > > And...better stability?..Are you kidding me? Warrior is the only class with pulsing stability as utility **Balanced Stance**, then you have "Dolyak signet", "Stomp" and then you have the best transform in the game : "rampage" and you want more?....maybe you want to play ele and have a single utility to have stability.....
> > > > >
> > > > > And yes..I do play warrior among other things; don't just try to facetank everything simply because you play a warrior....dodge sometimes
> > > >
> > > > You're right. I can have resisstance for days, and Full Counter returns 3 Condis and so on, and so on. I can play less careless, and use Rush and Dodge better. You're right about that too. In fact, your right about everything you point out. You just forgot one small thing...
> > > >
> > > > No where in my post do I say, that I want "this" or "that", or want one build to rule them all. All I wrote was thoughts and ideas. That's it. I even started with letting everyone know, I actually feel Warrior is pretty nice as it is. So because you somehow failed to get that from my post, your reply falls short. Sorry.
> > >
> > > You did complain about condis and I have listed the options available to deal with them
> >
> > No I did not. I Pointed out that Warrior can't handle teamfights because Resistance and Stability is being stripped from them long before Warrior has an impact on the fight, and because of that, they melt, and should stay away as the 1vs1 class Warrior is.
>
> **__NOTE This is a general opinion and not directly aimed at you__**
>
> Don't jump head first shield in hand in the teamfights....
>
> The class got all the tools to survive any teamfight ....**as long as you are willingly to adapt** which all of you are not because metabattle and some streamer says you must run strength-discipline-spellbreaker / zerker / bull's rush and shake it off in all situations ..whether you are provided with support or not, always use same build then rush into any battle, proceed to lose then go the forum and complain on how UP the class is.
>
> Warrior got the tools to survive heavy condi/dmg/cc ( depending on situation ) teams when there is nobody to provide you with cleansing and support..but most of you refuse to use the tools given and instead use the term "meme" for any build that doesn't come up on metabattle or been showcased by some l33t streamer.
>
> Few key points here :
>
> 1) Calling meme anything that doesn't land on your laps from metabattle...doesn't make you "cool" or "l33t", it only shows how much of a copy/paste parrot you are and can't effectively say to know how to use the class at all
> 2) The class can duel , offer limited support and adapt seemingly to any situation through sheer ingenuity and mobility
> 3) What metabattle and some streamer say may not necessarily apply to you where a different gameplay option will yield far better results
Could you please share a "viable" non-metabattle spec? I see some dual axe warriors too, though, and they do very well at bursting stunned targets (axe 5 doing 14k is normal if you build it right) if they neglect to invest in defensive abilities. Other than that vanilla greataxe build, and lastly some attempts at rifle which hillariously just dies to anything. Outside of that, nothing. Greatsword is too good to pass up on due to very high mobility, hammer stuns but doesn't deal damage, mace would pair up well with a shield in a bunker build that won't work due to lacking passive sustain.
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> @"Shao.7236" said:
> @"Inguz.6493"
> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwEM6MssAWCTkhxKxza6c1D-zZIOlGFBZKE6VBEwEwxDA That one, I don't know how you made yours work. I did say Knight's Amulet, if you're lacking damage that's because you're not stacking Might and using hard hitting skills after, it's not complicated to do so and gather nearly 20+ Might all the time, the AoE is no damage to rely on but can scare people off anyway. Reminder I'm not saying nerf, fix the lack of a target requirement for Combustive Shot.
>
> Bow 3 hurts and the rest of skills are useful for control, Axe hurts in general and Warhorn is great at blasting with sustain. Don't care about people burst damage with so much toughness and if it gets bad, balanced stances makes it nearly immune to power damage and control, To the Limit being a great resustain at 4 extra seconds for 30%~ more healing with emergency cleanses from Shake It Off while Adrenal Health becoming your better Healing Signet and Cleansing Ire being your shorter Condition Cleanse compared Mending. With everything you got a burst skill that hurts but also lets you live almost forever. Bonus if Axe Burst hits, but Bow right now is not a requirement and that's the problem I have with Warrior Bow.
Mine works like other popular warrior specs in a way, using greatsword for mobility to not take damage, stacking as many damage-dealing talents I could think of. I'm sure it would be OK (but still less efficient) for lower ranks if it dealt more damage.
Hm, I'm not sure how to stack might with your spec outside of Signet of Rage. Adrenal Health and is possibly fun, then how your build could deal meaningful damage outside of Signet of Rage I don't know. Running warhorn you miss axe 4 and 5. How does this spec work, you stand and tank? I'll try this if you tell me intended playstyle, do you stand at range and then what when you have 1+ enemy on top of you? Warriors in general are very dead if they can't break out of CC as most of their defensive abilities and heals are active and not passive.
Anyway, even if what you claim is true, that it's abusable, I don't think anyone would mind a tanky bow warrior spec that can't deal much damage or shield block.
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> @"Shao.7236" said:
> > @"Inguz.6493" said:
> > > @"Shao.7236" said:
> > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:
> > > > This guy just said Warrior Longbow needs a nerf.
> > > >
> > > > nuff said
> > >
> > > You have no idea how exploitative Combustive Shot is with any adrenaline traits. Also Bow is not bad, this isn't a nerf but an inconsistent mechanic fix. Bow is good as Power or Condi.
> >
> > Just tried a few games maximizing damage with bow, it's a meme build TBH. It can't do enough damage or burst to compete with other ranged classes, unless people feel like standing inside the burning field. The Combustive Shot burn damage is alright, but outside of that it lacks damage and utility. I ended up using Rampage to deal any sort of focused single target damage anyway. Not sure why this would need the attention of the devs?
>
> I'm not saying "nerf". I'm saying fix. I'm all for the things it can do. What I am not for is the lack of requirement for Combustive Shot to hit anything, because it goes against the mechanics of adrenaline and it turns the skill into a self cleanse/better Healing Signet every 6 seconds which allow for the lack of engagement.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAMFlJwSYYMEGKO2KrrcA-zZIPlEUANKEyXCEwIwxDA this is the build I use, even though I try to max out damage, it's lackluster at best. The thing about axe/warhorn I don't understand, this spec is fragile and needs greatsword for mobility to not die. That f1 doesn't need to hit is working as intended, it would be incredibly difficult to pull it off consistently since it has such a long cast time. If you want the cleansing from defense line, then you sacrifice damage and will be even worse at you know, killing things. I already have access to two cleanses, so I don't see the point in that synergy. Rifle will be better still because you have focused, more efficient damage and not splash AoE damage that goes wherever someone inattentive or a pet walks into.
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> @"Shao.7236" said:
> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:
> > This guy just said Warrior Longbow needs a nerf.
> >
> > nuff said
>
> You have no idea how exploitative Combustive Shot is with any adrenaline traits. Also Bow is not bad, this isn't a nerf but an inconsistent mechanic fix. Bow is good as Power or Condi.
Just tried a few games maximizing damage with bow, it's a meme build TBH. It can't do enough damage or burst to compete with other ranged classes, unless people feel like standing inside the burning field. The Combustive Shot burn damage is alright, but outside of that it lacks damage and utility. I ended up using Rampage to deal any sort of focused single target damage anyway. Not sure why this would need the attention of the devs?
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Inguz.6493" said:
> > Thief (or most often daredevil) can down me while the thief survives with maybe 70-80% hp as a Spellbreaker Warrior with greatsword and dagger+shield. I can last for a while, that's not an issue, but the issue comes when actually trying to deal any sort of relevant damage. There's only so many stunbreaks I have access to. Right now my tactic is to wait out the initial burst with shield block (the one that blinks all over the place), dodge the clearly telegraphed beyblade and so on, and land a Bull's Charge 2s stun on the thief in between all these evade frames and invisibility, but it gets cleansed instantly and the thief just resets the fight and it starts all over again while I don't have my defensive CDs back yet.
> >
> > How the hell am I supposed to compete with all the stuns, blinds, dodges, evades and stealth fight resets when I either can't hit the thief or see him? In team fights I just slice them in half in a matter of seconds, but that's not what I want to know.
>
> Uh, this fight should be incredibly free for you. You do a lot more damage to them than they do to you, and you have a lot more survivabiltiy and CC than they do. You should note what kind of thief were talking about, though. If its D/P, just stun them and wail on them. Theyll have to burn a stunbreak or they die, and if they do, they cant fight you because your stuns have lower cooldowns than their stunbreaks. If theyre S/D, dodge Larcenous strike (the followup to the side-ways evade) and push them towards their infiltrators strike spot, that way their positioning is completely messed up. If its staff, dodge vault and the build is useless.
>
> Anyway, for the most part its just, hit them and use your defenses well? If you do that, the thief has absolutely no way of killing you. All they can (and will) do is run away.
I'll admit, most thieves just let me hit them. But that's more a concern for them, not skillful counterplay on my part. I'm not sure which spec it is that I have a problem with, but it's daredevil and they use lots of cc, evades and restealth a lot.
> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> I play a lot of both and have been on both sides many many times. On dp thief if the warrior doesn't no thiefs skills,rotations and the playstyle I can usually get the down with little pressure by blinding with black powder,using the smoke fields and by going in and out of stealth followed by backstabs. I find keeping my distance and timing my black powders so war isn't in melee distance for long without being blinded. As a warrior shield bash timed right or bulls charge are usually enough with 100 blades and f1. Dont use both SB and BS close together as the thief will predict what ur trying to do. Try and shield bash or BS during a thiefs aftercast, when I find I catch and get caught the most. Axe mh destroys thiefs quick whereas dagger mh bates out stunbreaks easier.
> It's hard to say a definitive method as sometimes on thief I meet wars who I cant dent and wreck me and others I can delete using blinds and barely get touched. Same for warrior, sometimes catch damaged thief with axe 3 and that's all it took or catch them with hard cc and if thier stunbreaks are used the one burst downs them. For warrior each thief build takes different approach tho, lately been only touching dp.
Good point, I need to time my shield stun better and expect it to get cleansed. Since you play both, is it better to use dagger+shield until I know for sure I can get a Bull's Charge stun in?
> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:
> I fought a spellbreaker yesterday that made great use of magebane tether to reveal me and pull me close for bursts. In general, you have waaaaaay more burst (adrenaline spending) skills than I do stunbreaks, and your sustain is bound up in that too. Remember that full counter will apply the tether if it hits, and it has a reasonable range on it as well. Something he did was use the dagger F1 in the area where I was after I had stealthed; thieves are unlikely to dodge in stealth, meaning I often got hit by it and revealed by the tether. He then ran in the opposite direction to pull me, and then he burst. If you're weird like me and tend to run tanky thief builds, it's a battle of attrition in both directions, if the thief is glass you just need to keep track of their stunbreaks, play defensively and use magebane to force them to burn them and go ham when you know they can't break out of it.
>
> Happy hunting ^^
>
> PS; if they are doing the whirl from the stolen item (looks more yellow than daggerstorm), they are reflecting projectiles but aren't evading. That's a good opportunity to use full counter to tether them, and because of the range they probably won't dodge it in time.
The problem isn't that I don't have burst, I sure have it in my toolkit, but it's that I don't hit the thief enough that I charge my adrenaline bar in order to tether. So maybe focusing on using dagger would be better to get quick hits in, in between all the evasive action. How many stun breaks does a daredevil have?
Thanks!
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I just got one yesterday! I play spellbreaker warrior with greatsword and dagger/shield and had a long and drawn-out duel in a rated conquest game with a mirror matchup (I probably should have just left instead of spending 2mins doing this). In the end, I was victorious with a really low amount of health, then the guy whispered me,
Him: NOOB
Me: STILL YOU LOST
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Thief (or most often daredevil) can down me while the thief survives with maybe 70-80% hp as a Spellbreaker Warrior with greatsword and dagger+shield. I can last for a while, that's not an issue, but the issue comes when actually trying to deal any sort of relevant damage. There's only so many stunbreaks I have access to. Right now my tactic is to wait out the initial burst with shield block (the one that blinks all over the place), dodge the clearly telegraphed beyblade and so on, and land a Bull's Charge 2s stun on the thief in between all these evade frames and invisibility, but it gets cleansed instantly and the thief just resets the fight and it starts all over again while I don't have my defensive CDs back yet.
How the hell am I supposed to compete with all the stuns, blinds, dodges, evades and stealth fight resets when I either can't hit the thief or see him? In team fights I just slice them in half in a matter of seconds, but that's not what I want to know.
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> @"RabbitUp.8294" said:
> You get to live that fantasy for a few seconds when you use Rampage.
>
> Honestly, I prefer warrior as the "normal guy/gal" instead of an unstoppable juggernaut. What you are describing feels more like the fantasy of Berzerker in particular and I agree that that elite spec could do a better job delivering on that fantasy. Hitting Zerk Mode should be an "oh kitten" moment for the opponent, a kite-or-die situation, but with the toughness penalty of Zerk Mode, it's more like kite-or-die for the warrior themselves.
>
> But fantasy-fulfilment aside, the last line reads like a contradiction, someone who can both take a beating and is also a huge threat sounds like a balancing nightmare. I also don't feel like warrior should be limited to melee range, a warrior is a soldier and soldiers always use the most effective techniques available to them. Historically that meant spears over swords for better reach, bows to wear the opposing army down , then later guns and artillery. The melee-only fantasy seems much closer to guardian who are the noble paladins, knights in shining armour who always fight with honour. And even then DH subverts that trope.
Constant Rampage would be OP, obviously, but yes it is in line with what I described. I don't think it would be a balancing nightmare if _some_ of these evasive things PvP warrior has going would be reduced or removed in favor of resilience, I wrote **a bit** of a beating, not a beating. Berserker fails to do anything against someone kiting unless using CC, people just move out of the way and the warrior can't do much about it.
I find your take on the class fantasy interesting, too. Would be fun to see rifle or bow be competitive as off-weapon!
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When I think of a warrior in a fantasy setting I either think of someone who can punch **anyone** into a K.O. given that the warrior is within melee range, or a stalwart defender capable of taking inhuman levels of beatings.
Right now in PvP, however, warriors feel to me more like the rogue archetype in heavy armor. The playstyle is agile with lots of movement abilities, and when in melee range has to chain CC, dodge and evasion in order to not die. This high skill playstyle is rewarding once you get better at it, but it feels to me as a poor representation of the warrior class fantasy. I've seen complaints that seem to represent similar ideas without being too articulated on what the issue is at its core.
Nevertheless, I would like to invite everyone to share their ideas on warrior class fantasy versus in-game playstyle. My opinion is that I'm a bit 50/50 on the whole playstyle, in a way it is fun and very rewarding when you play it right, but it never quite satisfies that class fantasy of being someone that can take a bit of a beating and that everyone should be afraid to be in melee range of.
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> @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > @"Inguz.6493" said:
> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > @"DinesenDK.5067" said:
> > > > My experience is that Warrior, is in a fairly good place when it comes to spvp and pve (don't play WwW enough to know). However, it is far best at 1vs1, as it should be - Only problem these days is, that other classes, and builds does this better than Warrior, which makes it a real struggle to succeed at. Warrior in teamfights bigger than 2v2, is an absolutely no go. It simply gets melted due too too much boon corruption/removal.
> > > >
> > > > I am not sure Warrior needs to hit harder, as I feel it is more a question about getting other classes/build into line with Warrior.
> > > >
> > > > Rush needs to be looked at, as it is very random at connecting - An idea could be to leave it as it is, and maybe even reduce the dps on it, but then give it a couple of secs Evade - It is used mostly for mobility afterall.
> > > > Then I look forward to reworks of a few traits, or hope so. :)
> > > >
> > > > Lastly, I would love better build in stability, because as it is, it often feels like I'm more on the ground then actually fighting. Not sure that's the idea with Warrior.
> > > >
> > > > On other notes...:
> > > >
> > > > Something neeeds to be done about these things, which is already mention elsewhere
> > > >
> > > > Ranger pets needs a nerf or an overall rework - too much dps and too many random CC
> > > > Burning is out whack one more then on build - Guard especially - Hits waaaaay too hard
> > > > Spamming slow/poison/Weakening/CC to the point where you can't use your abilities is a quick way to make Spvp unfun very fast
> > > > And then we have Shroud on Necro.... - Something needs to be done here as well, as they are godly tanks as it is, and that wins them the duel no matter how hard I am able to hit them
> > > >
> > > > :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > You can have resistance for days on warrior while playing spellbreaker! At the same time you can pack enough punch to rip a hole through everything if you know what to dodge ofc and not just randomly use that **rush**.
> > >
> > > -Full counter gives back 3 condis every 12s CD plus an evade and 100% "block"
> > > -Berseker stance
> > > -Feather grace
> > > -Shake it off
> > >
> > > And you still have "Signet of stamina" and "Mending"/ "Natural Healing" or go crazy with "Defiant Stance", if everything fail ( dunno how ) you can learn to CC/lock necros and & with hammer-mace/shield....**what more do you want?**
> > >
> > > And...better stability?..Are you kidding me? Warrior is the only class with pulsing stability as utility **Balanced Stance**, then you have "Dolyak signet", "Stomp" and then you have the best transform in the game : "rampage" and you want more?....maybe you want to play ele and have a single utility to have stability.....
> > >
> > > And yes..I do play warrior among other things; don't just try to facetank everything simply because you play a warrior....dodge sometimes
> >
> > Ah yes, the warrior with 10 utility slots and 4 weapon swaps, I should have played that class instead. How did you unlock it?
>
> You unlock it when you finally realize that you can't have a single build to rule them all, simply because the class is called "Warrior" does not mean that you can rush face down everything, learn to change utilities/traits based on the encounter, less time spent assuming you can faceroll the whole world with a single build
Yeah, I'm not sure which specs you are referring to. There's pretty much only two viable specs for PvP if you want to deal any damage and not be a glass cannon, core with greatsword and axe+shield or spellbreaker with greatsword and dagger+shield. Bunker specs are laughable compared to other classes.
In regards to utilities there's not much one can do with the slots. Bull's Charge is something warrior mobility is balanced around and it would be impossible to catch up to people kiting you without it. Shake it Off is a very good condition clear and stunbreak, something that is needed every team fight. The last non-elite utility slot could be up in the air, but one slot means you can't take every stance. Hammer and mace is not doing any meaningful damage, you'd not contribute much to killing enemies running that.
The conundrum of playing a warrior is that you **have** to go face to deal damage (rifle and bow is laughable) but at the same time can't stay in melee range for long. I'm not joking, guides to and for warrior PvP tells you to dodge into melee and _minimize physical contact_. It's a strange playstyle to dodge, chain defensive/evasive abilities, and move out of range for a class with the class fantasy of someone sticking to the face, up close to the enemy, and more fitting for class fantasies of nimble classes like thief or ranger. Chaining stuns with hammer/mace or taking more defensive abilities doesn't change the playstyle if you want to survive.
Either way, warriors having issues with the actual playstyle vs class fantasy doesn't negate that pets are overtuned, CC isn't fun, and that condition spam is frustrating.
-
> @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > @"DinesenDK.5067" said:
> > My experience is that Warrior, is in a fairly good place when it comes to spvp and pve (don't play WwW enough to know). However, it is far best at 1vs1, as it should be - Only problem these days is, that other classes, and builds does this better than Warrior, which makes it a real struggle to succeed at. Warrior in teamfights bigger than 2v2, is an absolutely no go. It simply gets melted due too too much boon corruption/removal.
> >
> > I am not sure Warrior needs to hit harder, as I feel it is more a question about getting other classes/build into line with Warrior.
> >
> > Rush needs to be looked at, as it is very random at connecting - An idea could be to leave it as it is, and maybe even reduce the dps on it, but then give it a couple of secs Evade - It is used mostly for mobility afterall.
> > Then I look forward to reworks of a few traits, or hope so. :)
> >
> > Lastly, I would love better build in stability, because as it is, it often feels like I'm more on the ground then actually fighting. Not sure that's the idea with Warrior.
> >
> > On other notes...:
> >
> > Something neeeds to be done about these things, which is already mention elsewhere
> >
> > Ranger pets needs a nerf or an overall rework - too much dps and too many random CC
> > Burning is out whack one more then on build - Guard especially - Hits waaaaay too hard
> > Spamming slow/poison/Weakening/CC to the point where you can't use your abilities is a quick way to make Spvp unfun very fast
> > And then we have Shroud on Necro.... - Something needs to be done here as well, as they are godly tanks as it is, and that wins them the duel no matter how hard I am able to hit them
> >
> > :)
> >
> >
>
> You can have resistance for days on warrior while playing spellbreaker! At the same time you can pack enough punch to rip a hole through everything if you know what to dodge ofc and not just randomly use that **rush**.
>
> -Full counter gives back 3 condis every 12s CD plus an evade and 100% "block"
> -Berseker stance
> -Feather grace
> -Shake it off
>
> And you still have "Signet of stamina" and "Mending"/ "Natural Healing" or go crazy with "Defiant Stance", if everything fail ( dunno how ) you can learn to CC/lock necros and & with hammer-mace/shield....**what more do you want?**
>
> And...better stability?..Are you kidding me? Warrior is the only class with pulsing stability as utility **Balanced Stance**, then you have "Dolyak signet", "Stomp" and then you have the best transform in the game : "rampage" and you want more?....maybe you want to play ele and have a single utility to have stability.....
>
> And yes..I do play warrior among other things; don't just try to facetank everything simply because you play a warrior....dodge sometimes
Ah yes, the warrior with 10 utility slots and 4 weapon swaps, I should have played that class instead. How did you unlock it?
-
> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:
> > @"Inguz.6493" said:
> > Couple this with [Eternal Champion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternal_Champion) and [shake it Off!](http://https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shake_It_Off) and then you have an unstoppable killing machine. I see where you are going with this, but it would be too much for PvP where you'd be able to chase someone across the map in the blink of an eye with Swiftness, Superspeed, 2x Condition removal, Stunbreak, Stability and (with greatsword and Bull's Charge) three significant movement abilities. If you catch up to someone that can kite then they are dead already without these changes.
>
> Last stand is kind of required for what you are going for there, and this does not mean PvP splits for EC aren't warranted. Still that would be a DPS lose, and I am fine with a Berserker bunker build. More variety is a good thing.
>
> What would you propose?
It's tricky, I made a berserker spec for PvP with hilarious results, consistent 14k Whirling Axe (axe 5) on Bull's Charge stun, but it more or less only works in team fights or when you have help with locking targets down. What I'd suggest is applying 1-2s Cripple on burst hit. Just a little bit more that makes you able to run up to enemies and hit something. I'd often find myself adrenaline starved because all I could get in was a few hits and then it's a kiting game again. With a Cripple, people could still clear conditions, use their abilities and the like, just make it so that they are more susceptible to getting hit.
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IMO just make it instant (animation wise, shot first), and do it to Rifle Butt too. Rifle damage is lackluster, and since it's not powerful enough for PvE just make it semi-viable in lower tiers of PvP. Rifle Butt compared to Kick, which also has half a second cast time and does the same thing, cannot really be compared. Kick has utility in team fights to get people away from finishing a teammate or reviving someone, in that scenario the cast time is justified. But as a kiting tool or in general to knock people down from ledges or the like, it's just too slow.
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> @"Drennon.7190" said:
> > @"Inguz.6493" said:
> > I've played 259 games of conquest and I still have to receive any personal comment. There's been about 2-3 "bad team" or the like, but nothing else stands out. Needless to say, I am both disappointed in this but also delighted that PvP in this game doesn't seem nearly as toxic as other team based PvP games.
>
> play thief, you will get blamed for every loss.
Heh, I play warrior and seem to fly under the radar regardless if I perform bad or good. One would think that when I make the stupid mistake of charging first into the enemy team and die within 1-2 seconds of the first team fights, or I have a fantastic game where I am the one to cap/decap side points and enter crucial moments of team fights swinging my greatsword around with 8k crits to three targets would be noticeable even for the enemy, but no. =)
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I've played 259 games of conquest and I still have to receive any personal comment. There's been about 2-3 "bad team" or the like, but nothing else stands out. Needless to say, I am both disappointed in this but also delighted that PvP in this game doesn't seem nearly as toxic as other team based PvP games.
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Couple this with [Eternal Champion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternal_Champion) and [shake it Off!](http://https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shake_It_Off) and then you have an unstoppable killing machine. I see where you are going with this, but it would be too much for PvP where you'd be able to chase someone across the map in the blink of an eye with Swiftness, Superspeed, 2x Condition removal, Stunbreak, Stability and (with greatsword and Bull's Charge) three significant movement abilities. If you catch up to someone that can kite then they are dead already without these changes.
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Calling for nerfs to annoying, frustrating or in general unfun things doesn't have to do with rank. It saps enjoyment out of the game, even if the spec you're facing is "meta" or not. I hate dragon hunter traps and general aoe circles with a passion because I play warrior and is more or less forced to trigger them if I want to deal any damage, and also because in combination with CC chains they take fun out of the game for me.
Calls for nerfs are more often than not cries of frustration about something that people want to see changed, "balanced" or not. Then there's also actual OP stuff like revenant and engineer FOTM specs that would feel OK to play against if it wasn't that they have both burst and sustain in one kit.
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Balancing around lower tiers could mean lots of things. For example, dragon hunters trap. It's really a noob trap and is tricky to get out of but deals so much damage if you don't manage it, but the DH himself is mediocre without it. Nerfing the trap and placing more power on the hero would be a welcome change to a one-trick in lower tiers, but won't be relevant for top tier.
The underlying cause of nerf threads
in Player vs. Player
Posted
I disagree. I started playing my necromancer alt before the latest nerfs, and going from warrior the contrast was stark. It was easy to pick up, I could survive 1v2's for way too long, and 1v1 was a joke, they really struggled to down me in between the conditions eating away at them while I was spamming crowd control. About as how I would expect it to feel, having struggled to kill necromancers as a warrior. The result was there, and no longer did I have to avoid all aoe crap on capture points to deal damage, and it also meant that I was less susceptible to getting hit by random stuns and other effects because I could stand at a distance. Then the nerfs hit, and I still feel that my sustain is great.