Koensol.5860

I can see your complaints OP, but I burst out into laughter when you said ESO has better PvP. Imagine ever thinking this. That game is a total garbage fest of procs, 50k health tanks (20-25k used to be normal in pvp) doing all their dmg from auto attacking which procs a million proc sets. Its a spammy snoozefest, which in the open world pvp lags the game to absolute unplayable levels. I've played that game from launch up to 6 months ago and now quit, and will never return. The battlegrounds are now made so you get random modes only. No ability to queue for the mode you want. And if you get anything other than deathmatch all the good players will just farm the zerglings that try to play the objective because it is actually pointless in ESO. No one cares about the objective and just farms kills because it is pointless. There is no visible rating system, its a casual garbage game that keeps getting dumbed down more and more.

My only regret is not picking up on GW2 earlier. At least in this game you have to actually combo your skills and have knowledge about other classes and roles to do well. This game has so much more depths to its combat that ESO which is all about weaving light attacks with your spammable dmg ability, untill you apply your cc and ultimate to try and burst. If you fail the enemy will just spam heal back to full and you repeat the cycle. All the while spamming your buffs to keep in a tedious never ending dance.

No, OP. The grass isn't greener over at ESO. Be happy with what you still have in GW2.

> @"Sifu.9745" said:

> > >

> > Wrong. Flamethrower is mostly a power weapon. **The auto attack** deals most of the damage from flamethrower and its **all power dmg**. Combine it with juggernaut trait from firearms and all the bottom traits from scrapper. There you go, easy to play build with perma stability and good dmg. The only condition dmg that is notable from flamethrower is the nr 4. But it's small and stationary.

>

> Read the tooltip again: Flamethrower auto attack is power AND condi dmg, like ALL other FT abilities (including ammo), with #5 being an exception. Burning dmg on FT is very powerful. Power dmg is limited to auto attack only, while #2, #3 and #4 barely do any power dmg.

The condi dmg from the auto and all other abilities apart from nr 4 and the toolbelt skill are pitiful, compared to the power dmg of the auto attack. The main dmg comes from the auto attack. All the broken ass scrapper flamethrower builds in PvP are all power based. The auto attack does an immense amount of dmg with easy 25 might stacks + quickness + while accumulating endless barrier. It still applies condi dmg but the dmg you do when speccing into power is miles higher.

This shouldn't be working like this. Imo flamethrower SHOULD be mainly a condi weapon, since engi has no real viable condi weapon. Sadly power is just way too effectice with the the FT.

So your comment that FT doesn't work well with power builds couldn't be further from the truth. A power specced juggernaut FT scrapper is faceroll easy open world pve gameplay, while in PvP it is among the most hated and toxic builds in the game. Don't believe me? Check out this video:

And he's even playing a rather safe version of the build. It can do a LOT more dmg if you build for it.

> @"Sifu.9745" said:

> > @"Lynx.9058" said:

> >

> > I'm using almost all berserker gear, so power/precision/ferocity I think.

>

> First, don't play Scraper or any other elite spec before you unlock ALL skills!

> Second, berserker gear is for max Power dps, which is required for fractals and raids but for open world i would recommend you Marauder gear (power/precision/ferocity/vitality), if you struggle a lot: slightly less dmg, huge buff to your health pool. Anyway, while both Berserker and Marauder stats are optimal for Scraper playstyle, they are not that good for Flamethrower, which is more condition oriented "weapon".

> If you really wanna stick with Flamethrower get yourself a gear with condi stats such as Sinister or Viper's gear for max dmg or Carrion, Trailblazer for more defensive playstyle, but as condi Engineer you can forget about Scraper and Hammer :) Only core Engi can be played as condi. Double pistols, Flamethrower and you are fine.

>

>

Wrong. Flamethrower is mostly a power weapon. The auto attack deals most of the damage from flamethrower and its all power dmg. Combine it with juggernaut trait from firearms and all the bottom traits from scrapper. There you go, easy to play build with perma stability and good dmg. The only condition dmg that is notable from flamethrower is the nr 4. But it's small and stationary.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> After doing a few matches tonight after not playing for a while lmao I actually think he's serious. U play ranked players will group up in 2's or 3's and run to home at start of match, most matches ull see most ur team 3v1 home etc. Nobody rotates anymore at all. I came back after few weeks off and its actually halarious when u don't care about rank, I guess nobody thinks to practice in unranked anymore and just goes strait to ranked. The pvp in this game has fallen so hard, sad but oh well it had it's time I guess.

You know what's the problem with unranked? It's filled with sweatlords who shit on new players and even more sweatier premades with supports and everything. Unranked is 100% a worse place to practice than ranked, all thanks to the little ep33n warriors. On top of that, they even shittalk practicing players for "being bad and uncarryable".

As for OP, 100% a troll.

I hope you guys realize that when grenades are nerfed into uselessness, core literally has close to 0 viable kits for sPvP. Bomb kit? Garbage in sPvP. Flamethrower? A meme kit only for scrappers. Elixirgun? More of a utility weapon with supplemental dmg, which won't cut it for core engi with its mediocre weapon options. Toolkit? Another meme tbh. Has its niche uses but not viable as main source of dmg and easily countered. Mortar kit is still very good on the other hand, but relying on that for all your damage makes you predictable, slow and clunky. Plus, it synergizes a lot better with scrapper imo.

You forgot the toolbelt skill for supply crate, that drops the medkits. The drop is also random which makes it annoying af to use.

Tbh, it's better to have a reaper with high dmg against you, than having a tempest every fucking game, carrying the opposing team. That class is so frustrating to play against.

> @"kraai.7265" said:

> > @"voltaicbore.8012" said:

> > > @"kraai.7265" said:

> >

> > > In this game that doesn't apply, broken builds are just broken, when skilled players grab those builds they ruin pvp for everyone who reaches past gold 2 from gold 2 to silver 1 all players just copy paste those builds and somehow climb, and the only players who play this game for fun and for choices, are stuck below silver 1 with meme builds they create, summit1g exposed this by trying the game a few weeks ago, the first 20 matches he had a great time, as soon as he was stuck in a match with somewhat decent players using those stupid builds it was all over for him, he left so fast anet couldn't even reach the patron stuff for him. And not because he was beeing mauled by more skilled players, he left because he quickly realized he had no future in this game because he wouldn't enjoy playing those annoying aoe builds.

> >

> > Eh. I doubt, with his mindset and approach, summit would have stuck around even in a different meta. I just don't think he likes the genre in general, and GW2 in particular (which is perfectly fine, they're not for everyone). His complaints amounted to "why can't my halfassedly built rifle warrior contest points?!?!", which is like someone who brings their rusted out station wagon to a drag race and complains that they can't win. If he cared at all about doing GW2 pvp, he'd at least learn a better warrior build, or figure out some other way to handle the aoes. I, for one, found it highly embarrassing how hyped the community got about some streamer who really doesn't care for our type of game. It was pretty obvious he wasn't going to stick around, at least to me.

> >

> > As for the aoe meta, I'm not a fan myself, but that's also why I only do unranked. There are still plenty of circles there, but at least it's less dominated by the same small number of builds.

> >

> >

>

> Dude, why? What steers gw2 players to keep making excuses to defend this game? It's so hard to accept our beloved game is trashed?

> 1. If summit doesn't like mmorpg, why is he trying out absolutely every one out there? And why is he still actively playing Elder scrolls online on off stream hours? And even pvping there?

> 2. Yes at first he was playing a meme roleplay build, and just having fun, that brief time playing on low tier motivated him to activate expansions, claim spellbreaker builds, and try to get as close as meta as possible without quiting the class he enjoyed to just join the braindead aoe spam meta train. He even watched the hole teapot video about combat basics on stream to learn what he was doing wrong.

> 3. As soon as he fought silver or gold players using those stupid builds he quitted the game, before that he was having a blast, and he actually stated that all the passive interactions between aoe's, unfair or cheesy passives, break out of jail unnecessary skills (holo's specially) and the fact that everyone he met was using either a perma stealth build or an inmortal bunker build forced him to quit the game.

>

> And I know that not only because he said it himself (he was even starting to doubt about quitting ESO to play gw2)but because when he came back and I saw the low tier pvp matches, I was encouraged to go back and try out this "balance patch" everyone was talking about, the only difference is my character always landed in plat 2, so I couldn't even enjoy that unranked phase were people play just for fun.

> I got in, played like no more than 5 matches, encountered nothing more than perma stealth thieves, condi spammers, bunker spammers, went to wvw, every one using the most cheesy stupid risk free build, the ones that let you just run away every single time you kitten up something, and uninstalled again.

>

> We have to face it, the game forces you to make a choice, die in silver playing what you enjoy, or join the freaking braindead train grab a meta bunk spammer build and hit your keyboard with your face as hard as you can every single match while staying on a node basically botting...

>

> EDIT1: well.. i was actually that bored, here watch this video, he litterally complains about endless aoes on the first 5 seconds...

>

>

> EDIT2: You said it yourself, if skill mattered then chaith would be able to kill you with a scrapper build, yet that's not the case, unless he runs holo meta build, ofc you need to know how to press buttons and move to still be effective on a meta build, but it would be insane to argue that today's meta builds are harder to master than the ones we got in last expansion or even core gw2, the skill cap is insanely lower, and on equal skill level builds define every single fight.

Dude, summit is a total cringelord when it comes to providing criticism. I wouldn't take anything he says as valid. I came to gw2 from ESO (cuz trash game) and he QQ'ed that game as well, because he couldn't git gud and 1vx people like those of us who were playing the game for years. His last video was just whining, whining and more whining about the game, while he was running into 4v1 and complaining why he died so easily. Literally what he said: "untill someone tells me how it is possible this guy is doing massive damage while mitigating all my damage, I'm calling bs". It's just the typical forumtard/zergling mantra and shows his mentality of "If I can't do it, it is impossible". He is the kind of guy that asks for a youtubers build, and expects to be good within a week. Of course he doesn't, but blames almost every failure on the game in stead of looking at his own mistakes. He is also extremely presumptuous about game mechanics and disregards things that people tell him just because he thinks he knows better. He expects instant gratification and thats just not how mmo's usually work.

Also, BIG LOL at the people calling gw2 trash. Do yourself a favor and visit ESO. You will come back here crying in a heartbeat, feeling stupid about what you said.

> @"wasss.1208" said:

> > @"Koensol.5860" said:

> > It pulses 4 times so it cleanses 4 condi's, plus Its a kit swap so with cleansing rune its 5 cleanses. Its really good and lingers on the floor with combo field. And the vigor from medkit 5 is so usefull with explosive entrance.

>

> Staying in your pulsing field is often an invitation to get bombed. It is not unviable to cleanse a few conditions, but if you get filled up with covercondis, you are better off with resistance, from rune of revenant or resistance.

> Vigor sure is useful, and you can have some sick uptime on it, if you combo it with Tools (add the +50% endurance regen grandmaster, and you can get gross evade uptime). I could see it becoming meta, if Tools gets back to favour, but for now, the 1 second cast time heal is a great downside.

I see your point, I'm personally fairly durable so I'm ok with it. Another great pro of the medkit heal is 12 seconds of superspeed. Huge for kiting. 1 sec cast time is a burden for sure, ngl.

> @"Makuragee.3058" said:

> The cast time is longer if I remember and easly interupt. Also only cleanse 1 condi vs the 2 of the turret. Average its a aleight kit for support, but not really that great for self heal.

It pulses 4 times so it cleanses 4 condi's, plus Its a kit swap so with cleansing rune its 5 cleanses. Its really good and lingers on the floor with combo field. And the vigor from medkit 5 is so usefull with explosive entrance.

Almost every engineer pvp build is using the healing turret as their heal. Doesn't matter if it's core, scrapper or holo, no one uses the medkit from what I can see. Now I understand the turret with it's instant blast finisher and condi cleanse is a very nice burst heal/oh shit button, but what kills it for me is the 30 second cd.

Medkit heal has only a 17 sec cd and if traited it can go as low as 14 seconds. It has a value of like 5k which means you can get more healing out of it over the course of a longer fight than with turret. On top of that medkit 5 gives 10 seconds of swiftness, vigor and regeneration to yourself and teammates, and provides a blast finisher. Then you get another team condi cleanse on 15 sec cd from medkit 3 which has a water field, so can be combo'd with medkit 5 blast and elixir gun 4 blast for some nice AoE healing. Finally medkit 4 gives another small AoE heal which isn't much but still helps.

I have tried both medkit and turret for extended periods of time and I find if I take turret the longer cd will get me killed more often than the 1 sec cast time on medkit's heal. I can cycle my defensive cd's a lot more frequently with medkit and don't have to kite as much in a 1v1 for example.

So, why is it that people still prefer turret most of the time? What am I missing?

So I return to the game after 3 months, and now I downloaded all the patches, click play and I can see the game's icon on my task bar and then after a couple seconds it just dissapears and the game isn't launched. Already restarted pc and tried again, running as administrator, etc. All doesn't work. Anyone else had this issue and knows a solution?

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Koensol.5860" said:

> > Nice cherry picking you've got going on there on the cc subject. I think you missed the line where I said its obviously not a meta group spec. All I'm trying to say is the notion of "it brings zero group value, even less than DE" is not true, which the guy I responded to said. In no way am I trying to say it is superior than any other build/class that you mentioned. Just saying you can add plenty of group support with the way you set it up (I mentioned bullwark giro also). I agree with the other issues you mentioned though about scrapper. I just hate when people fall into hyperbole and flat statements when they don't even have a clue how the class works.

>

> The hyperbole is also strong with you too, just pointing that out. You made 3 separate bullet points largely for Mortar, one for Mortar's combo fields, and two separate points to include the poison field and the blind access. lol. How do you feel I'm cherrypicking your CC bullet point? Scrapper CC is bottom of the barrel, it does other stuff way better.

It's okay, Chaith. You obviously want to believe that I think scrapper cc is top tier, even when I literally said what the point of my post was. But it's cool anyway, dude.

I'll admit the structure of my post could have been done more efficiently and concise, but that has nothing to do with hyperbole. It just means I didn't care enough to reread it 10 times as if it's some essay.

Anyway, that's it for me. Point is made. Feel free to disagree ;)

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > Summoner classes that just faceroll their summons and run around in circles, doing passive lethal damage - this is what's not allowed in the game.

> >

> > That's what "summoner class" in all games do and they are balanced around that (lack of mobility etc), but for some reason 7 classes have summons in this game lol.

>

> Yeah usually it's balanced around something. Like the high damage A.I spammer being squishy for one, instead of sentinel amulet and all defensive traits.

>

> @"Shiyo.3578" the guy who questioned if I was defending degenerate Turret Engineer at some point, the answer is no. Pro players at the time were overall really against it.

>

> @"Koensol.5860" Summarizing every skill worded in an impressed, incredulous way, without having the bar set for comparison.

>

> For example, if you are impressed by 3 AoE CC's every 30 seconds, two of which last one second and the third having a 3 second charged telegraph, that's inarguably less disruption compared to Necro, all Rev specs, firebrand, or a shared shocking aura alone. Scrapper CC is third rate, impressive indeed.

>

> One other thing, you are listing hammer, mortar, and optional medkit abilities in this build. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that's going to drop your stability uptime from 100% via sitting in flamethrower on average.

>

> The reason why FT is subpar even for subpar Scrapper is because you can already approach high levels of stability if you take other build options like Bulwark Gyro, Elixir B, and Mass Momentum. You can keep high stability uptime, have a much more reliable team revive by having stability for your gyro (don't bother trying without this), have high might stacks too.

>

> Having tons of stability in different Scrapper builds doesn't fix the scrapper problem of doing no damage to players who aren't point-committed to eating your damage. The top several specs are often also boasting different mixes of decent support & survivability as well as often being ahead on follow through damage & CC. All Rev specs come to mind, also Necro, Holo, FB, Bunker Soulbeast, Tempest. With Thief being a lock, where you think that leaves your so praised FT Scrapper, lol

>

>

Nice cherry picking you've got going on there on the cc subject. I think you missed the line where I said its obviously not a meta group spec. All I'm trying to say is the notion of "it brings zero group value, even less than DE" is not true, which the guy I responded to said. In no way am I trying to say it is superior than any other build/class that you mentioned. Just saying you can add plenty of group support with the way you set it up (I mentioned bullwark giro also). I agree with the other issues you mentioned though about scrapper. I just hate when people fall into hyperbole and flat statements when they don't even have a clue how the class works.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> It does a lot of damage cuz burning is a OP condition right now as well as being brainless spam build like a lot of the current meta builds but it differs in the fact the build has almost zero value for the team, less than DE even. No teammate has ever said wow thank god we had that flamethrower engie.

Not that I'm saying FT scrapper is anywhere close to a meta group spec or anything, because its obviously not, but thats a load of nonsense from you in one post. And it shows you don't know what you are talking about. First of all, the damage from flamethrower doesn't come from burning, it is mostly pure power damage with 25 might stacks if built the right way with traits, skills and sigils. Burning is just a side effect and won't be that great as most people just move out of the fire field.

And the other part which is nonsense is the no group support part. I like how you are able to conclude that a build has zero value because of 1 single kit it happens to use. I suppose the below things are all considered useless to the group:

- Ability to stomp/ress multiple people at once with function giro on 25 sec cd

- AoE group purge with purge giro on a 20 sec cd with a light field attached, turning every condi into a boon with purity of purpose trait

- 2 ways to provide AoE might stacks to the group: FT 4 into FT 2 and blast giro

- Easy access to AoE swiftness for the group with long duration

- 3 AoE cc's, one of which is an unblockable knockback (blast giro) with insane launch distance, which has great value in disrupting resses and decapping points or in situations like capricorn bell phase

- With elite mortar kit you add 4 different combo fields (poison, ice, light and water) pulsing 5 times allowing for great point pressure, dmg negation and combo possibility for the group. In total that brings you to 10 combo fields (6 unique types) with 6 finishers.

- 2 sources of AoE poison (also poison fields) which can be dropped on downed bodies and to pressure healers/bunkers

- Easy access to AoE blinds

- If you decide to use bulwark giro in stead of any of the above you also bring 6 seconds of AoE stability and projectile negation

- With medkit as a heal you can also bring another AoE cleanse and a source of AoE vigor and swiftness. Or with heal turret you gain the ability to give a nice burst heal to group mates.

Sure, the flamethrower itself is a simple kit thats very easy to use. But just spamming 1 won't be that great unless your team overpowers the opposition and you have time to freecast non stop. You are squishy and do have to set your dmg up with the right combo's to make sure you have superspeed, stability and swiftness (for 15% dmg from object in motion trait) and get your might to 25 stacks when the quickness procs. Its not very hard to do though, and I think the 100% stability is definately over the top. There should definately be some downtime on that. It just triggers me when people say you just spam 1.