Mikkel.8427

The first and most potent counter to CI Mirage (and any condi Mesmer)-

TURN YOUR AUTO-ATTACK OFF.

As someone who multi-classes, I can assure you that's the very first step to winning the engagement. After that, time your key skills around their dodges/interrupt spam. The vast majority of CI Mirages are total noobs and just unload their Interrupts and dodges into you to try to burst you down. Have patience, their pressure is barely a tickle if you don't feed into it by giving them easy interrupts.

Mantra of Distraction doesn't recharge Time Sink, also.

> @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

That's not what he's complaining about... Its the merging of Distortion/CS AND the removal of IP as tradeoffs for the Chrono spec.

There also seems to be a small misunderstanding of how the merge functions now.

Distortion-

50sec cooldown

scales up to 4 secs invuln with 3 clones

CS/Distort merge-

105 sec cooldown

1 sec of invuln (does NOT scale with clones)

The one sec of invuln is just tacked on to CS so the devs could justify granting effects from traits that affect Distortion to the new CS.

Despite the many downsides that presents, most will agree the merging of Distortion/CS was a reasonable tradeoff for Chronomancers. Adding the removal of Illusionary persona ON TOP of that (without any kind of compensation) is what kills the spec. Especially considering that losing IP is actually a much bigger nerf than the Distort/CS merge to begin with.

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> So please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like only mesmer is being imposed with "trade offs".

>

> (Which I find quite funny since Core mes is kind of a trade off all on it's own, the only reason why Chrono was so good was because it fixed the issues of a under developed class.)

Want to know what's sad?

After spending the last couple of days playtesting Chrono builds on and off, playing core feels REALLY good.

Actual Positives-

1) Chono's new shatter effects are gorgeous.

2) I no longer need to purchase a Equinox Shield skin to match my Mesmer's new outfit because there is no reason for me to use Chrono specialization in its current state.

> @"geist.4126" said:

> > @"everyman.4375" said:

> > > @"geist.4126" said:

> > > A mirage nerf would be great and at least justified. The way they nerfed Chrono is just lazy and very stupid.

> >

> > How is another mirage nerf justified ?

>

> Go into wvw. Play it, ask again.

You're totally right. So sick of zergs FULL of Mirages! Gosh, those are awful. Also, those damn Mirages bursting you off your mount right into the downstate from 1800 range away in under 2 second! Grrrrr, so OP! /s

A more detailed description of what you're having trouble with would be helpful. Most people on here would be happy to help you learn how to counter whatever specific mechanics you're struggling against.

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> Im just glad my build actually got buffed. Matter of time before it gets a nerf bat tho lol

SHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

(My build was buffed too <.< )

> @"Documental.5946" said:

> What about...

>

> *Illusions: The illusion counter that tracks clones now decrements immediately when a shatter is cast rather than waiting for the clones to be destroyed.

>

> Isn't this a huge QoL change?

>

> The lost of IP is a huge deal, but this is why you have good access to slow and superspeed for your clones. Maybe the case could be made that they need access to something more...? Hopefully however the trend continues and other e-specs are reigned in as well.

That's a QoL change geared more toward newer players... Anyone that has played Mesmer for a significant amount of time doesn't need to look at their Illusion Counter.

> @"Delofasht.4231" said:

> My assessment is that clone reliance for the profession as a whole is a problem, they should not be able to be killed or targeted, but neither should they apply any kind of damage, all damage should be funneled through the Mesmer; including shatter damage, by way of on next hit effects. Target breaks should make the Mesmer not targetable for a brief duration. A few traits would need adjusting (rending shatters, cry of pain, time catches up). This would solve basically all of the issues with clones, being distracting for enemies and a destroyable resource for Mesmers, of all kinds, Mirage and Chrono included.

>

> Several Mesmer effects and condition applying auto attacks would likely need to be boosted based on the number of clones in play (sword auto combo boon strips, conditions applied by weapons). All this revolving around the idea of less passive effects applied by AI and require at least facing our enemy, but also indicating to the enemy that the Mesmer has more damage up when clones are up.

>

> This is my hope and dream, because I want the profession normalized a bit and the perception of the profession changed (not OP anymore, clones not a distraction, damage telegraphed and avoidable).

I would love something like this.

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> Just pointing out the cd on missed stealth attacks was one of the most cleaver things balance team did.

> Before you could spam till it connected rendering aegis, blocks, evades useless.

> I would have liked to spam mind shatters till it hits without destroying the clones if it didn't but it would be awful for the game.

I think that's exactly what Anet's intention was with these changes to Chrono. Removing IP hits the cheesy one-shot Chrono build the hardest. No more massive bursts from OOC stealthed Chronos. You're going to have to actually engage first to build resources. I sincerely believe these changes are good for the overall health of the game. The problem is they didn't follow up and make positive adjustments to the rest of the Specialization to make up for the loss. It feels like half a rework (the negative half...).

Where's the rest?

This is exactly the sort of thing they should be doing across all the professions- Cutting the cheese mechanics. Unfortunately, their balance cadence is so painfully slow we're stuck with UP/OP specs for intolerable time spans.

Ok, here we go.

I got to spend a couple hours this afternoon playing Chrono. I popped out to Ember bay and soloed the jade construct meta event a few times. The constructs are my favorite build-testing mobs, its what I do when I want to get the feel for a new build/skill/profession/whatever.

Conclusion: It is waaaaaaaaay undertuned. Shockly, absurdly, astoundingly undertuned.

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but I actually like the idea of removing IP and distortion as drawbacks. It definitely makes you play Chrono different from core. It took a good hour for me to untrain myself from positioning near mobs when I shattered. The new shatter animations are also really beautiful.

but..

They didn't adjust anything to compensate for the losses. The shatters are weak... Csplit cooldown wasn't reduced... Traits weren't buffed... There is no way I'd select this elite over one of Mesmers core traitlines as it stands now. Which is saying a lot... Core Mes has been hit hard by past nerfs, its 'meh' at best.

The Shatters being objectively weak in a one-to-one comparison with core is compounded into an even worse problem when you factor them having less synergy with core shatter traits because of the loss of IP. I don't get it...

On top of this, you have things like Time Sink (Chrono's Diversion) not getting a reduced cooldown from Mantra of Distraction... Clear and obvious oversight that exposes the lack of any kind of testing phase.

Grading-

Anet Artists - A+

Anet Balance Devs - F

> @"Delofasht.4231" said:

> What is absolutely staggering to me is that many of the players complaining here are also the ones that wanted to see gameplay changes to the Chrono elite specialization.

I'm surprised to see so many complain BEFORE we've even gotten the chance to playtest the changes. Certain things are obvious... like losing IP is a huge nerf. We don't have the details of most of the other changes, though.

Personally, I'm really excited. I'm getting exactly what I wanted:

1) Tradeoffs for all Elite Specializations.

2) Mesmer Elites that actually CHANGE the profession mechanics.

If Chrono is underperforming after this change, we can all storm the forums and demand more adjustments.

My biggest disappointment is actually the lack of weapon trait adjustments. They've been adjusting weapon traits across the professions for about a year now... Pretty sure Mesmer is the only profession they haven't touched.

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> I've only been around for a year in a half, but ever since I started coming here, the general perception has been negative.

>

> Were these forums ever a happy place? Like when the game was new? =)

Nope.

The majority of posts are from angry/bitter people. Most people that are happy with the game are PLAYING it instead of complaining on the forums.

There are a handful of intelligent, skilled and/or knowledgeable individuals that post here, though. You just need to get used to ignoring the outrage and try focusing/contributing to the constructive posts.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> MESMER:

>

> * I don't think these changes will necessarily be buffs or nerfs in competitive modes, but I could be wrong. These however: Flow of Time: The alacrity per clone shattered has been increased from 1 second to 1.5 seconds & Seize the Moment: The quickness per clone shattered has been increased from 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds, are going to be pretty kitten strong in pve.

>

For those that don't know- Illusionary Persona is a trait that became baseline for Mesmers after the the traitline rework that preceded HoTs release. It makes the Mesmer count as a clone, consequentially scaling up all shatter effects. It also allows Mesmers to use Shatters without any clones present.

Chrono will be losing Illusionary Persona, so at max illusions you'll see...

Flow of time-

Now: 1s x 4 = 4 secs of Alacrity

After update: 1.5s x 3 = 4.5 secs of alacrity

Seize the Moment-

Now: 1.5s x 4 = 6 secs of quickness

After update: 2s x 3 = 6 secs of quickness

In PvE, the loss of Illusionary Persona shouldn't make any difference to the efficacy of Chrono, just makes it even more annoying to play... In the competitive modes (especially WvW) this is a MASSIVE nerf.

I'm super excited to playtest all the changes, though. Especially the Ele changes.

I'm really excited to test these changes. They finally put some work and thought into making Chrono feel like a real Espec instead of just Mesmer with Continuum Split tacked on. I do agree losing Illusionary Persona absolutely kills the entire spec in WvW. That's more of a problem with how clones function, though. Which should be something they consider adjusting in the future.

They actually CHANGED things. I'm still in shock.

Love (most of) these changes! Cant wait to test them out.

+1

> @"XECOR.2814" said:

> 1. Build a necro for dueling and i will fight you on any class you tell me to play.

>

> 2. Try solo queue scourge before crying nerfs.

>

> 3. You seem like low skilled solo queue player who stands in shades or eats reaper shroud4 and forms a convoluted opinion that they are overpowered.

>

> 4. I cant believe how many times ive died in under a second as scourge on full hp as soon as i come out of no port spot. Every decent player literally farms solo scourges. How much would you nerf necro so that lower skilled players dont get steamrolled by corrupts?

1. My 4 main characters are Mes, Thief, Ele, Necro. I used to solo roam in wvw on Necro all the time... It is definitely underestimated. Which is a POSITIVE thing, btw.

2. I'm not asking for nerfs... I love my Scourge.

3. I am very aware of how Necro functions. You know... because I play one regularly.

4. I could say "You sound like a low skilled solo queue player that needs to learn how to dodge" but I'm going to resist the urge to feed into your negativity.

You sound like an ol' school necro... Add me, I'll run dungeons with you.

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> Like what can they say that's actually going to make a difference and change anything?

Saying ANYTHING changes EVERYTHING.

Communication is the foundation of any healthy relationship. Healthy relationships foster a greater sense of contentment. Happy people are going to have more positive perspective on the things they experience.

This is an MMO. Community and social engagement are important aspects of its longevity. It's up to the developers to create the tools, set the tone, and maintain the momentum of/for engagement.

Consistent communication from anet:

-Puts names and faces to ideas and content. So, next time you run a raid, use a new skill, experience an interesting combat mechanic, stumble across beautiful scenery you never noticed before (etc...) there is a PERSON you think of and can thank. Having that feeling of connection enhances the feeling of appreciation for the work that's done in the game. AKA humanizes Anet.

-Has the potential to create HOURS of content/discussion through hype, speculation, theorycraft on the forums and through youtube/twitch responses. All at a very low investment of time/effort on Anets end. Which has cascading positive effects. More content being created about GW2 on outside platforms = more (and FREE) advertisement for the game.

-Gives people something to look forward to.

-Would make the community feel heard (despite the communication technically being one-directional)

The benefits are literally exponential. From a business perspective (and as a business owner), the lack of engagement with their consumers is simply absurd.

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > If it didn't happen today it's happening [next week](https://www.thatshaman.com/tools/countdown/ "next week") for sure.

> >

> >

>

> I bet u 50g no balance patch next week. Balance patch not content update. But balance patch.

Next Tuesday the 16th is the end of Dragon Bash. There will be a patch that (more than likely) will include this quarter's balance update. Streamers that have regular contact with the devs have suggested its going to be substantial in size. Hopefully that's true...

They could tone down/remove the visuals of other less important boons at the same time. Like alacrity... My god, turn that off already.

Last balance update was April 23. We're still a full 2 weeks away from it being 3 months. Of course, it FEELS longer than that because the game remains so awesomely unbalanced. Which was exacerbated by the Core Swap Campaign... Who doesn't love immortal Holosmiths that can spam back-to-back prime light beams!? weeeeeeeee!

Personally, I'd like to see a lot of things done to AoEs.

My shortlist:

1) The radius of all persistent AoE fields reduced.

2) Durations decreased on most persistent AoE fields (anything that lasts longer than 3 seconds), but non-damage efficacy increased to compensate (cleanse, boonrip, healing etc)

3) Target limit increased/removed on persistent AoE fields.

4) Damage re-evaluated for all multi-target skills. Single target abilities should hit harder than multi target and melee range skills should hit harder than ranged as a general rule.

You're not going to find any support here.

1) Necro is an extremely popular profession. There is no end to the number of people that will defend Necro when its overperforming.

2) Long-time Necro mains have PTSD from not getting invited to dungeons 4+ years ago. So, even a whisper of a nerf sends them into panic.

3) Most people judge a class by its dueling potential. Since Necromancers almost never build for dueling, most people are left with the impression that Necro is a "free lunch".

4) Necro is (and has almost always been) a meta-defining asset in PvP and WvW. The natural response is to endlessly nerf the professions that counter it (obviously).

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > @"viquing.8254" said:

> >

> > Why did it suddenly be used after years of being a unused trait ?

> >

> Same could be said about a lot of mesmer skills people complain about here.

>

> Take mantra of distraction for example:

> before it could stun 100% of the time with CS with no ICD, now it can't

> before it could then stun 100% of the time with CS with a 5 sec ICD, now it can't

> before it could then also stun with CS with a 15 sec ICD, now it can't-doesn't work with CS at all anymore

> before it could scale with critical hit damage on bower block, now it can't

>

> Before HoT and PoF, mantra of distraction was a **LOT** more powerful.

> It is not like all these changes happened in quick succession either. Many versions were around for years.

> I'm not saying some stuff shouldn't have got nerfed or changed, but right now some people in this thread are complaining like these skills just popped up outa nowhere.

>

> Hint: It's not because these skills got better-they got worse. It's because a lot of other mesmer skills have already been nerfed and now certain people, including WP, need to find something else to complain about because . . . . . . . . . .you know. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . mesmers

To add on to this:

Chaotic Interruption did NOT get better, and the build that's using it didn't just pop up out of nowhere. The CI build has been considered meme tier until recently for two reasons.

1) Mesmer's other options have been nerfed. Mesmer has eaten a ton of nerfs across its core trait lines severely limiting build diversity. As far as Chaos GM traits are concerned, Prismatic Understanding has always been a mediocre choice (cant control a point while invisible...) and Bountiful Disillusionment was gutted. Chaotic Interruption is the only real option.

2) Condi builds have been seeing major nerfs for a long time now on top of condi clears getting majorly buffed. Most people are running power builds in response to the general changes, dropping condi clears from their builds. The Chaotic Interruption builds are capitalizing on this. If we were in a Condi heavy meta and people were building for a reasonable amount of cleanse, this wouldn't even be a subject for discussion.

Someone posted this really old interview in the PvP section:

https://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/17/guild-wars-interview/

I immediately thought of this thread. Particularly @Obtena.7952 views on the weight of player opinion on balance.

Direct Quote from the interview:

"Honestly, pulling stats on skills doesn’t give us a lot of useful information re: skill usage. The community does a great job of telling us what their problems are. Often player input can be more useful than pulling stats or looking at metrics. In terms of lessons learned, we’ve found that the solution for balance issues is to look for the root problem. The answer to a problem with Skill A may not be to nerf that skill, but to nerf Skill B or adjust a game mechanic like Soul Reaping or buff stacking. So the real key is washing away the symptoms to find what the real illness is. We want to treat the core disease, not just the symptoms."

This is Lindsey Murdock talking about GW1 balance and the lessons they learned that would be brought over to GW2 production. So, its totally possible their strategies for balancing in GW2 have evolved since then.... but I doubt it.