Ferus.3165

the first thing warrior weapons need is, especially sword (main/off), is better animations. Like many old warrior weapons they are cluncky and have an huge aftercast on many abilites and that needs to be fixed before any numbers are thrown around.

had the same thing today in EU aswell, suddenly i had skilllag like in wvw for several seconds and that happened multiple times.

the only thing that needs to be done about dragon banners is that you should not be able to teleport or stealth with it. Other than that they are fine. And btw. a 50 man zerg will always crush a 15 man zerg with or without dragon banner.

the offhand weapons sword and mace need a complete rework. Clunky and slow animations, low range or slow projectiles. None of them feel like you "fight" with those weapons. Number crunching won't do anything for those weapons because they are so outdated. There are many other skills that need an update aswell, like hundred blades and the sword f1. Those skills were good in 2012 but today they are damn worthless.

> @"Rekt.5360" said:

> Berserker can absolutely handle conditions. It handles them far better than core or even spellbreaker. That's one of the big reasons it was playable in early HoT aids meta. If you take cleansing ire in defense (as you shouldn't be running Strength/Disc/Zerker anyways, as that's too yolo) every primal burst cleanses 3 condis. You can spam primal bursts very often, and given the AoE on the GS/Axe ones they give very good condi cleanse. Condi pressure is not a problem, assuming we had access to bursts outside berserker mode, to still benefit from cleansing ire and adrenal health while berserker mode is down; currently we lose the ability to trigger both.

Primal bursts count as T1 bursts and cleanse only 1 condi with cleansing ire. The reason berserker was kinda op vs condis back then was because the lb primal burst was bugged and cleansed 6 condis instead of 3. Also the cd of burst skills was lower (33% reduction trait). And at the very start of HoT berserker was hot garbage. Only after anet hard buffed the king of fires master trait and introduced the new adrenal health and buffed the torch trait and torch skills warrior was playable. At the early HoT meta everything was extremely op but warrior was stuck with it's vanilla gw2 power level. Warrior was unplayable before the adrenal health update.

Warclaw could easily be removed now... the downed stomp was the only good reason for warclaw to exist, and basicly the only chance for pug zergs to kill off guild zerg players for good... but i guess it makes the game even easier for guild zergs and that is what anet had intended. Oh and reducing the target limit to one in the same patch is just overkill. Very nice work from the devs i have to say.

The german support told me twice now that there won't be any help/compensation for missing items/gold in general. We got the mount skin and the bonfire and that is all there is to it. They won't offer any compensation apart from the skin/bonfire.

Edit: Now, another two weeks later, i've got back about half of the items i lost during the rollback.

Edit2: I did not receive the missing items, but i got some gems (as compensation) i think. Because i did not receive another mail from support i am not entirely sure but anyway: thank you for taking the time and going through all of those cases of missing items (mine included).

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > I got a question to you guys is it me or does core warr defense line look really disappointing? i see a single block.

> >

> > Last stand is cool so is defy pain and shield master is nice but where are invulns? where are the protections?

> >

> > the line looks barren almost and looks as if you guys don't have much invulns or evades and are about just pure toughness. in fact the toughness thing and the str to toughness looks like one of the lines from reaper. I don't know if thats the only line or if you get a ton of invulns n stuff in your line but i hope to god you guys don't depend on just this line and toughness, because that would be god awful.

> >

>

> Defy pain is 2-5 seconds of invulnerable to physical damage when you are struck below 50% depending on game mode and if last stand is traited. With Endure pain, a shield, and defiant stance you can have between 11-18s of physical damage immunity, block, or incoming damage converted to healing depending on game mode and if last stand is traited.

>

> Evades for warrior are from GS or rifle. Adrenal Health from Defense aids in the healing during that invulnerability period as does things like Might Makes Right and Menders Might.

>

> I typically don't run Defense and do just fine, but others feel they need the extra sustain from Defense, and if you do then take it. If you personally do not see any worth in taking Defense, then take a more offensive trait line like Strength or Arms, or a utility line like Discipline or Tactics bearing in mind that Tactics has a set of strong DPS traits in it now.

lol the few warriors i encounter, that don't run defense traitline, die in 1-2 sec to thief/ranger burst. I always lol when a warrior in wvw does not run this line. In pvp it's another story because the traitline has been nerfed into oblivion, but the dmg in pvp is all around far lower than in wvw and thus stances are not necessary.

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> Been playing the pretty much default by now Strength Spellbreaker build in ranked and it beats people running tactics almost every time.

>

> To take it, you lose either Spellbreaker or Discipline which are both essential.

>

> Then using the new tactics line to boost damage seems pretty pointless as it encourages cheap 1-shot gimmicks that core warrior just isn't very good at, because the skills that work like the rifle and axe bursts are just way too telegraphed to build around.

>

> It is better at sustain though most definitely, and I think that's what it was made for. Though the sustain still can't compete with scrappers and even holos because the passive regen can be cut by a third with 1 condition, and core warrior has little to no access to protection.

people love crying and hate thinking and listening to reason. Tactics warrior is a weaker version of the meta variant. And if a telegraphed skill like eviscerate is not allowed to hit hard then the skill is pointless... just like the thread before where people complained about prime light beam dealing dmg lol.

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> Yeah, totally agree. Thief only has mobility to show for itself, LeTS rEmOVe iT!

and perma stealth or extreme evade uptime combined with the ability to pick fights at will and leave fights at will. Everytime a thief dies, it's because the thief player made a wrong decision. Thief should only every die to others thiefs as only a thief has the means to fight/kill a skilled thief.

60 sec cd for one single attack... one dodge (and thief has broken amounts of these) and the skill is rendered useless. The skill is fine as it is. Casting it while stealthed is another issue, but that is more of a problem because of thief than because of holo.

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> You're primed for disappointment the second you become comfortable with something that's over-performing.

the trick is to jump to the next overperforming class :D

the aoe is larger than warriors axe whirl by quite a bit and it also reflects projectiles. I do not think the damage should be lowered just to gain some ms, however it really should hit 5 targets. That is some necessary QoL change for axe offhand.

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > You do realize that Full Counter can be interrupted right? It doesn't block the hit, it just reduces the damage from it to 0, pops some evade frames, then damages/dazes people that are close by. If the original hit had CC on it that connects before the evade frames start then FC gets interrupted.

> > >

> > > what... no thats not true lol (cant be... ive never seen this happen)

> > >

> > > The only way that happens is if a cc hits you that does not deal strike damage as in necro warhorn 4 for example which causes a daze but does not deal a strike. This removes the free stab you get on using FC

> > >

> > > Now at this point if you get hit with a 2nd cc FC will be interupted

> > >

> > > Your situation is much more rare as you need 2 cc's to hit at almost the exact some time which is incredibly hard to do.

> > > Even if your example is true what cc do you know is fast enough to follow up after landing a strike thats going to proc FC that will hit you before evade frames trigger (ive never EVER seen fc get interupted once its triggered unless the stability is corrupted or removed by something that does not do a strike first.

> >

> > No, it can be interrupted. Its been done to me when I've played Spellbreaker. Takes more than one CC due to the Stability, but if there are two CCs that connect close enough together then one will strip the Stability and the other will interrupt you before the counter attack initiates. That or someone with a non strike boonrip removes the stability prior to the CC, or a for Stab to be converted to fear.

>

> To be honest this has to be pretty rare... of an occurrence as i said ive never EVER seen it happen myself spell-breakers always get their full counters off once its proc'ed.

>

> I forgot to add that a thief's steal with proper traits will also interrupt it because it takes the boons before applying the CC and thief will always take Stab. before any other boon.

> Note im not saying you are wrong and that it cant happen i just think its super super super rare of a situation to really be considered a real problem. About as rare as being 1 shot by a scrapper, or core necormancer if not more rare i would say.

>

>

it happens quite alot, thief steal is one thing but far more often necros simply corrupt your stabilty into fear and this breaks the fc aswell.

just play deadeye... super safe, super easy and does the same job lb ranger does, but with blinks and more stealth. Ranger was hit too hard this patch. Lb is garbage atm, even with 4000 power the pressure is still low (and that is from soulbeast perspective... i don't even want to see the dmg numbers on core ranger), no more surviveability/downcleave with quickness and gs autos because now you melt in 2 seconds when going anywhere near practically anyone. At this point it would be justified to unroot axe 5 or give ranger some unblockable back or make.. well I have no idea but atm it's pointless to play ranger.

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> Im more upset that they removed adrenalin gain on shouts AND on warhorn.

>

> Its a pain to get adrenalin up in a zerg, especially while both zergs are shipping away out of warrior range. And then when the engage comes, i cant use my hammerstun to go in, feelsbadman.

>

> Id be happy for 0.5 adrenalin for each person affected by warhorn or 1adrenalin for each person affected by shout.

> That would be 5 adrenalin. I dont even need it on both, but one of those would be great.

yeah andrenaline buildup is getting more and more painful...

> @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

> > >

> > > For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

> > >

> >

> > how would you know that 99% of ranger players don't actively use the evade or play like it does not exist? i think you just pulled that out of your kitten lol

>

> It's a generalization based on my experience playing the game since beta. Don't take the number that seriously.

>

> What, do you think I was pretending to quote some imaginary analytics report or something?

>

so it's bs what you are spouting... personal opinion and not what the majority of the playerbase thinks... from what i experienced it is the complete opposite of what you say, but it doesn't matter anyway. Time to join the deadeye army.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > > > @"DuckDuckBOOM.4097" said:

> > > > > > @"Lazze.9870" said:

> > > > > > > @"DuckDuckBOOM.4097" said:

> > > > > > >than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But it is a 20 sec cd stun break.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Can't sum up the bad without the good.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh absolutely that's a great aspect of it. I was mostly focused on the offensive aspect due to the claim "no one gets hit by it anyways."

> > > >

> > > > bandits defense is the most broken skill in this game... you get a 16 sec cd stunbreak, 1.5 sec block and a 2 sec knockdown all with one utility skill. I don't know what you are all on about but that skills deserves a cd increase to 40-45 sec. Anyone who is defending this skill is absolutely delusional.

> > >

> > > Lmao bandits defense isn't even close to broken. It's literally a block u have to time before the incoming attack due to not being 3 sec like most. It's a block u literally have to pop when u see a the cast animations of the opponents skill starting which makes it far more skill oriented than other blocks. The knock down basically stops it from being the worst block skill in the game and is on a class with few knock downs. Us it so hard to block on gs (how many sec of block) than follow with s smokescale knockdown or any other pet knockdown. Not saying the gs changes are good but comparing to BD is silly

> >

> > it's not just a block... it's a stunbreak, a block and a knockdown on a 16 sec cd... that skill is beyong broken

>

> So a utility not a weapon skill is beyond broken but the ranger gs 3 sec block with crippling sword throw if chosen with a follow up kick after block isnt? Bias? Oh it's a stun break utility and 1 1/2 sec block that last as long as some skill cast times lol with a knockdown oh no so broken considering wheres thiefs other knock down skill, oh yeah on staff tied to specific criteria to proc unlike slb knock down via pet un merged or merged lol id say one def on the more broken side. Not sure I'd say its thief. Bias is heavy on this one.

there is no room for debate here... The block and the knockdown on that cd would be fine aswell, but the stunbreak part makes the skill incredible overpowered... Thief is already extremely hard to hit and most cc skills have huge cast times and then when you manage to hit a dd (because the dd misplayed, that is the only chance for a dd to get hit with a cc skill) the dd has a 16 cd stunbreak? that is bs and everybody (except thief players as it seems) knows this. Comparable skills that have a stunbreak and some utility added have a much larger cd (e.g. Featherfoot Grace (40 sec cd), Quickening Zephyr (36 sec cd) ) . Again, the stunbreak is, what makes this skill so overpowered. Remove the stunbreak from bandits defense and the skill is fine with the 16 sec cd. Most skills could be blocked anyway with bandits defense if the dd would have simply reacted in time. The stunbreak is like a failsafe card that is not needed (reminds me of the old op'ness of the elusive mind trait) in any way and makes it damn near impossible to lock down even a bad dd.

The problem with bandits defense is that you can use this skill preemptively and reactively to gain an "almost invulnerability + cc for a fairly long duration" AND it has an extremely low cooldown. "Bandits Defense" in it's current state is broken and needs a heavy nerf. End of story.

> @"Durzlla.6295" said:

> > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > They should definitely go ahead with the greatsword change.

> > >

> > > For one, almost no rangers really utilize the auto attack for an actual, purposeful evade. I'm sure Eurantien and other hardcore PvPers do to some extent, but for 99% of the population, actually evading something with greatsword AA is a pure RNG experience. Making the AA provide endurance for a purposeful dodge is a much better experience.

> > >

> >

> > how would you know that 99% of ranger players don't actively use the evade or play like it does not exist? i think you just pulled that out of your kitten lol

>

> Because if you’ve played PvP against most ranger players they don’t save the evade for anything and never do a whiff to get another evade out of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if most rangers (let alone most players) didn’t know there was an evade in the first place.

if that were the case, why remove the evade then? it was clearly not a problem from what you witnessed and it's been like that since the game launched. i have never seen a topic about the evade on ranger gs before these balance patch notes arrived here.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > @"DuckDuckBOOM.4097" said:

> > > > @"Lazze.9870" said:

> > > > > @"DuckDuckBOOM.4097" said:

> > > > >than bandits defense taking up a utility slot. Bandit's defense also doesn't have an evade on that kick so it can be interrupted.

> > > >

> > > > But it is a 20 sec cd stun break.

> > > >

> > > > Can't sum up the bad without the good.

> > >

> > > Oh absolutely that's a great aspect of it. I was mostly focused on the offensive aspect due to the claim "no one gets hit by it anyways."

> >

> > bandits defense is the most broken skill in this game... you get a 16 sec cd stunbreak, 1.5 sec block and a 2 sec knockdown all with one utility skill. I don't know what you are all on about but that skills deserves a cd increase to 40-45 sec. Anyone who is defending this skill is absolutely delusional.

>

> Lmao bandits defense isn't even close to broken. It's literally a block u have to time before the incoming attack due to not being 3 sec like most. It's a block u literally have to pop when u see a the cast animations of the opponents skill starting which makes it far more skill oriented than other blocks. The knock down basically stops it from being the worst block skill in the game and is on a class with few knock downs. Us it so hard to block on gs (how many sec of block) than follow with s smokescale knockdown or any other pet knockdown. Not saying the gs changes are good but comparing to BD is silly

it's not just a block... it's a stunbreak, a block and a knockdown on a 16 sec cd... that skill is beyong broken

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > Honestly I don't see an issue with an insane multiplier like that. Why? Because Warrior for such a long time easily could stack beyond 50+% damage multiplier just from 2 traits alone (Berserker's Power + that 30% after using a Physical). They know they have to make this previously almost useless traitline appealing to take over those other ones that have such useful traits that are this easy to access.

> > >

> > > The only issue with this might be a Core Warrior that tries to get ALL of them for some cheese, but even then one shot warrior already exists and is a one trick pony only.

> >

> > the 30% dmg increase after using a physical skill is looooooong gone.... it's 10% since ages

>

> That was a recent thing. Like in the last year. It's also 20% in PvE I believe? Or unchanged. I cba to log in just to check an arbitrary number.

the patch was the 10th of july 2018... it's been more than a year... that is not recent

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Honestly I don't see an issue with an insane multiplier like that. Why? Because Warrior for such a long time easily could stack beyond 50+% damage multiplier just from 2 traits alone (Berserker's Power + that 30% after using a Physical). They know they have to make this previously almost useless traitline appealing to take over those other ones that have such useful traits that are this easy to access.

>

> The only issue with this might be a Core Warrior that tries to get ALL of them for some cheese, but even then one shot warrior already exists and is a one trick pony only.

the 30% dmg increase after using a physical skill is looooooong gone.... it's 10% since ages

(condi) daredevil has extreme amounts of evades. you will never ever win a fight against a dd as a warrior as long as the dd player is semi competent. without a video or screenshots we cannot tell what did or did not happen. out of range? bandits defense block? random evade? could be anything

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > >

> > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, I saw you as pretty reasonable at the start so try not to break that image going forward. I only disagree with a few people because their opinions never budge and they never admit when they're wrong (even if they're blantantly incorrect). If I get proven wrong, I admit my mistakes. Also, I get frustrated sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty reasonable. The forums are just a mess though. If you're able to have a constructive conversation, please go that route instead of poking and prodding.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I understood what Apharma was doing but I already detailed why he still made no sense in this (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1055912/#Comment_1055912). Either way, you should watch my mantra mesmer games when I upload them to youtube today. I'm going to be climbing from 1500 rating to top 30 on EU on saturdays/early sundays when I have time to play and uploading all of the games (in order to show that it works at a variety of skill ranges).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Second, no one has yet to prove me wrong in my mantra thread. In fact, most of the time people explain in _detail_ exactly how they're misplaying. Then I'm like...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _"No wonder you think these builds are bad. You're literally channeling mantras in front of people with interrupts ready and scratching your head when you can't get the cast off. Not to mention you're not even attempting to blind/cc/prevent them from interrupting you."_

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - It's stupid because people say that these builds don't work against high level players and the reason I want the build nerfed is because it _can_ insta-gib high level players even if they have fantastic awareness and reaction time. It's also been at the top of the leaderboards consistently and very strong in 1v1 tournies so there's more than enough proof to contradict the opposing arguments. You can't just say, "It doesn't work!" without proving that it doesn't work. I've provided videos, screenshots, history, and full game matches (soon). These matches will just be raw footage (wins AND losses) and my live commentary.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Sorry you just don't understand how badly it feels to get a mechanic that is a core part of the playstyle completely removed from the game 7 years in. I'm not exaggerating when I say that there are several high tier ranger mains and people I've known from when I ran an 250+ member all ranger guild that are actually extraordinarily upset about it. One girl was almost in tears when I was talking to her on discord because of how frustrated she was. You can't just mess with people like that for seemingly no reason other than an incorrect, "It's random."

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. The greatsword evade trick was only really used at a plat 2-3+ level consistently. At higher ratings, people know how to counter it and not spam into the evades. There has never been an issue with "infinitely evading gs rangers" plaguing the top end so all this change is doing is making ranger mains so upset they're quitting and lowering the skill ceiling even though this class is relatively in a good spot asides from a few outliers (which aren't even that bad). If they don't revert this change, I will probably stop playing entirely once AAU comes out on the 15th. I've been burnt out with this game for about 5 years now but I play because of my friends. If they leave (which the majority of comp players are ARKing to AAU and now my ranger friends are leaving as well) I'm flat out done. Anet is butchering my favorite weapon that I've been playing since release.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Do me a favor and try to _only_ use the greatsword evade trick in a team fight and try to stay on node with just that ability for as long as you can in an outnumbered fight. Do not use any other skills unless you are forced to pull out. Run a standard longbow/gs marauder soulbeast because bunker boonbeast does not use gs. The evade can potentially go up to 2.99s every 1s on paper but in actuality it's a lot less consistent than you would assume. Also, upload the footage so we can see how you use it instead of just taking your word for it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - A 2-3s evade every 1s sounds super good on paper but I can guarantee you'll get forced off the node within seconds by the damage/CC you eat during the non-evade frames. The evade on the auto is necessary for gs rangers to have _any_ staying power on node, both in 1v1/Xs to team fights.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. I proved you wrong in several parts of your Mesmer thread though and you even agreed to most parts then (at least that was what you were writing as answer to me, not the way you finally act). A lot of your argumentations don't make sense and are exaggerations from tooltips and wrong "facts", i just gave you one example with the Mantra cd. As said i agree with you over chaosline PU/ Mass Invis and Mantra of Pain, i highly disagree with everything else and i explained pretty well why i think. I analyzed your clips as mostly bad plays from the one got oneshotted, i told you why screenshots and rating don't prove anything about builds and i told you why Mantra of Distraction is quite the opposite from braindead and broken and is not even needed for a oneshot build. I also explained why a oneshot build without Chaosline/ Mass invis might not be hard to play but sure is counterable and you can avoid to be oneshotted fairly easy then. Your thread still is named delete Mantras instead delete Chaosline and just one Mantra. But whatever this is a Ranger thread.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. I understand absolutely that it is frustrating to finally get the mechanic removed and that you think it is part of skill ceiling because you have to know/ to find out about it and having the knowledge (not the usage itself because there is nothing hard to use in that) or not is one difference between an experienced and informed Ranger and a Noobranger. I would not mind to have the mechanic in the game to cancel evade skills for a very short evade frame need to be times pretty well for the costs of an 4 secs interrupt cd. But sadly it is not how Ranger autoattack works atm and 2 secs evade spam for almost free is just too much of an advantage and don't add skill ceiling in the gameplay only in terms of knowing about it or not (in terms of gameplay it even lowers the skill ceiling the way it is atm).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just don't attack into that is not an argument because you could say that to every build can evade for days. And i think you would not have argued like that back in the days when Mirage could chain evades with adventure rune, double energy (ever though all classes can use these, for Mirage it just was the most rewarding to use), old duelling vigor trait and old vigor Mirage trait, 2,5 secs evade frame on Blurred, 1 sec Mirage dodge duration etc. For Ranger it was a fix coming late that is true and for that frustrating but late is better than never and fixing it is kind of fair. Sadly we can't just add an interrupt cd to it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You can link me any specific comments you'd like me to read again. I didn't exaggerate anything. The cooldowns were exactly what they are in-game.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Here.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/88768/eu-ranked-pvp-on-core-mantra-mesmer) I recorded 10 games in a row, etc. etc. read the thread. It covers all(?) of the potential concerns you might have. These are on EU btw, 6x my normal ping.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. That's why I told you to try it out in-game and record it. If you're able to sit on node ONLY auto attacking in a 1v1/X scenario then yeah, it's busted. But it doesn't work like that even with utilities and everything in the mix.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. That's not what I'm saying. You can literally out-range the autos so they don't hit or interrupt either of the first two attacks. There are other methods as well but I'm not going to list them all.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Just check every of your comments i quoted in my answer. And one example i already gave here. On paper the pure cd on tooltip is 10 secs, the reality is, that you have a 2,25 sec recharge in addition (what is way more than the usual under 1 sec cast or even channelskills which already recharging during they are still running for an in fact lower cd then in the tooltip) and the recharge is not a passive cd it is an active cast can be interrupted so the Fb or Mesmer has to invest other cds or need to disengage and time the recharge to good moment (means even more cds before you can start recharging). These are additional cd costs, and these are the reasons for the kinda low cds writen on tooltip and that is justified. Some stuff where you changed argumentations also happened after i stopped writing in that thread (like when you finally admit that you had to outplay Vallun heavily to not die fast, even with chaosline carry. Sry i am too lazy and too busy to search all your comments where you even counter your own arguments depending on how you need it that moment. Unlogic also your claim that EU ppl are just too bad to play a build you call very easy to play. Unlogic also that you can find wall of text arguments on how to counter Condithief when it clearly is at least as hard to counter as a chaosline oneshot Mesmer spamming stealth for days.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. It is about the 2 sec evade spam for no costs what is not balanced, doesn't add skill ceiling (even lower it). It doesn't matter that the Ranger still cannot facetank on point forever with that or that ppl can avoid a hit from autoattacks. 2 secs evade was clearly not intended and is not balanced. If it wouldn't prevent all autoattacks for 4 secs i would say just add an interrupt cd (and lower evade frame to 0,1 secs when canceled) and make it restart the chain when 3. skill doesn't hit anything but these costs would be too high to make it worth canceling then. I get the frusttration because we were allowed to use it for 7 years but in the end it is a right move to fix it. We can argue about the way they fixed it (just restart chain like Tyga suggested would be better i think).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Sorry I'm not going to comb through the 7 pages in that thread. If you have any specific examples, feel free to link them. The cooldown for the skill is 10 seconds, everyone knows there is a 2.25 channel time and a 1s cooldown between charge uses. So, what would you like people to say? That Mantra of Recovery has a 14.25s cooldown? Like... that's so redundant. The fact that you and a few other people were bringing that up as if it were a valid defense just looks like you're reaching for an argument.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Greatsword ranger can barely stand on point against any of the current meta classes. Further reducing that ability will lower our viability dramatically. I disagree with your statement that "fixing it" is the right move.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. But you expect me to go through 7 pages even tho i argued with you about that already in the thread and you only need to rewatch my quotes from your comments? Yeah no. I also even gave you more than one example here already. Only saying Healmantra has 10 secs cd is exxaggerating just the way to say Ranger 3. autoattack chain skill has no cd (on tooltip is has no cd so yeah right). On paper both is correct, in fact both is wrong. The reason why Mantra recharge cds are lower are based in the recharge mechanic what is the base mechanic from Mantras, you need to count them into your arguemnts to make it realistic and not just exxaggerating to make stuff look op by exaggerating tooltips, that is Jawgeous ranting lvl and nothing i can take serious.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. As said that has nothing to do with a 2 secs evade for no costs is unintended and doesn't add any higher skill ceiling and is not balanced.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. If you want me to read it, then link me the comments you want me to look at. Otherwise, drop the topic. I disagree with your statements so prove me wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. I disagree.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Lol already wrote more than one wall of text to prove you wrong by using logic, facts and based on game knowledge arguments trying to be as unbiased as possible as a multiplayer even agree to some of your points. I don't need to do it again, it is all there already black on white so to say. I have done everything i needed to do. I don't restart. You can check it or let it be, i don't care in the end.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Fine for me, as said i my view you are extremely biased, immune to every good argument and even facts and proves. I am not surprised it is the same when we talk about Ranger than it was with Mesmer just the other direction. Conclusion once again: Waste of time trying to have a constructive discussion with you and just stop answering to you. I even agree to parts of your arguments but you never rly agree to anything i say. I mean one time you said you do but then just restarted with the same wrong arguments vs other ppl, so yeah that was kind of worthless to say you agree in anything with me. In fact you don't agree in a single point, that is at least how you act.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. I disagree. If you want me to admit otherwise, link me a _single_ post where you believe you're correct so I can read it again.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. I'm not biased. I play every single class and I find mesmer is probably the one I have the most fun on. There are builds I'd like to see nerfed on ranger and I'd like to see several other classes (including mesmer) receive buffs. However, I have the ability recognize when something is too strong. I'm in Aerospace and Mech Engineering and my focus is heavily on design and innovation. I'm good at pinpointing which areas are the best to focus on and develop further/first, where the problem areas are, and how to approach and construct the project in a way that not only performs well, but sells well/is easy to market. I also compete(d) professionally in several other games (shooters, BRs, MOBAs, etc. etc.) I understand balance very well.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. If you prove me wrong, I'll admit to it. But just saying, "I'm right and you're wrong." isn't a valid argument.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 As said it is all there if you feel better by not rewatching stuff when i already told you where to look than it is your lazyness and not my problem. We disagree about you being biased or not. Also fine for me.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Abyssisis.3971" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 years, 0 complains, even after it was buffed once for 10% increase damage and a second time for 80% additional damage. Yet, it’s OPed, but only after anet releases these future “balance” changes, clearly this is a placebo effect...

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. I and probably a lot of other ppl were always fully aware of that issue and not a fanboy of it. That GS Ranger was not overperforming because of it as a whole doesn't change the fact that 2 secs evade on an autoattack skill without any interrupt cd costs never was intended and also is not balanced or add any skill ceiling.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Don't call me lazy when you literally said, "Sry i am too lazy" when I asked you to link me a single post you think you proved me wrong in.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying, "You're biased." doesn't make me biased. It's an attempt to discredit me because you can't/refuse to prove me wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. If it wasn't over/underperforming, that means that the weapon is balanced and should be left alone.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Since you clearly don't know the definition of the term Skill Ceiling: _A skill ceiling is the level of skill required to use a hero to their maximum potential._

> > > > > > > > > > > > In other words, learning how to use the GS auto evades skillfully was necessary in order to reach the weapon's maximum potential. You're wrong here.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1. Stop this bulls... pls. I already wasted more than enough time and wrote more than one wall of text explaining very well why you are wrong with a lot of things. I am too lazy because i already did it. It is all there, check it yourself. I even gave you a good summary here already. I did more than enough. It is your turn. Or just let it be i don't care.

> > > > > > > > > > > 2. No it doesn't mean the weapon itself was balanced, 2 sec evade on an autoattackskill withotu any interrupt cd cost, i mean seriously how can you even defend that. Logic at it's best.

> > > > > > > > > > > 3. I know the definition and i made a further distinction to it because needed in this case. Like the only part it add some more skill ceiling was the need of knowing about it. The moment you know about it it lowers the skill ceiling in the gameplay part itself. Simple.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1. Then link it. :joy:

> > > > > > > > > > 2. "GS Ranger was not overperforming... also is not balanced." Okay way to contradict yourself. You can't say GS ranger isn't too strong but the weapon is.

> > > > > > > > > > 3. Well, thanks to me, now you know the definition of it. You clearly didn't know it before if you said that learning how to use the GS evades effectively does not increase the skill ceiling.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Anyways maybe you don't make as much sense as I thought you did. Telling me to not run Chaos to prove that Mantras are too strong on their own was pretty illogical. Oh well.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1. Again: im not going through 7 sides of the thread because you already forgot everything i wrote. It is not my responsibility. If you forgot then re-read it yourself.

> > > > > > > > > 2. A build has a lot of different parts working together. There can be one Part overperforming during it get compensated by other Parts underperforming. Just like a build that is op is not op because of everyhting it uses, there are specific things make it op and you always should balance the root problem. Also there can be broken mechanics, they can result into op stuff or not but even when not they are unhealthy. 2 sec evade spam on an autoattack skill without any cost from an interrupt cd is such thing. A 2 sec evade was not intended and is not balance nor does it add any skill ceiling in the gameplay part. It is simple no cost evade spam every ape can do. Simple because it is a pure defensive mechanic get abuse makes it not overly problematic. Still it should get fixed.

> > > > > > > > > 3. Where we are at Chaosline Mesmer again. Your Core build is overperforming only because of Chaosline in the first place (added by only Mantra of Pain as secondary carry mechanic and has nothing to do at all with any other Mantra). You can play only PU core without any Mantra (or at least only with Mantra of Pain) and the result would be the same. During a Mantra Mesmer/ Mirage without stealthspam for days and without broken passsive sustain from a defensive line is not any issue to counter and to get killed, except for the braindead Mantra of Pain spam what will not rly kill any of the high sustain bruiser builds by its own. Go find my comments where i explained very detailed why the clips with Vallun you were showing don't prove anything about the brustcombo being uncounterable. The 2 times Vallun died were because he played bad. Go back to my post where i explained why your screens don't prove anything. or where i explained how many counters Mantra of Distraction has during you claim it has not a single one or the post where i tell you how you need to analyze Mantras cds as a whole with the recharge included. Just rewatch all my posts i quoted you. You can click on your notification symbol in above right corner of this forum page to do that. Or watch the summary i gave you in this thread, i mentioned a lot here already.

> > > > > > > > > 4. I now rly will stop to answer to you before i get too triggered and say something i need to feel sry for later.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1. As I've stated previously, I do not believe you proved me wrong. If you say otherwise, then link me a single post where you believe this to be true.

> > > > > > > > Your logical fallacy is: [burden of Proof](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof) - "You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove."

> > > > > > > > So again, it's illogical and incorrect of you to assume that it's _my_ job to constantly disprove all of the claims you're flinging around.

> > > > > > > > 2. Sure but if the build as a whole isn't overperforming, then nerfing aspects of it will cause it to underperform. And as several other people have stated, the change is _not_ a bug fix.

> > > > > > > > 3. The issue I have with mantras is it's ability to oneshot from stealth. The Mirage variant of mantras is not only more popular, but stronger and arguably more effective. Mur plays this version in the top 10. Mirage mantras is more mobile, has more cc, and way more survivability. The screenshots, clips, and raw gameplay footage I've posted are direct proof of my claims. Again, just because you say they don't, doesn't mean anything.

> > > > > > > > 4. Bye!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. Holy cow you don't get it, i already made all the effort to prove you wrong, if you forgot about that and even don't read the summary i gave several times in this thread it is your problem.

> > > > > > > 2. As said in this case it was not overly problematic because it is a pure defensive mechanic get abused here. That always will get less of complains and will cause less big issues than if you could hit a skill doing 10k dmg twice instead of one time as intended. It will not kill GS Ranger just as it didn't make it insane broken.

> > > > > > > 3. As said you can onehsot ppl completely without Mantras used. The only Mantra makes it even easier and has a SECONDARY relation to the oneshot out of stealth for days problematic is Mantra of Pain, no other Mantra, ONLY this one. The main issue from your build is Chaosline and no, a Powermirage (using Domination; Duelling or Illusion) doesn't have more sustain than that and the sustain a Mirage has is way more active than from Chaosline. A Powermirage even with double Mantra is nothing i fear no matter on what class (except some Necrobuilds), all their moves are counterable and predictable and it can be killed without problems. Choaline PU is a different story and that is mostly caused by Chaosline. But again, just re-read the Mesmer thread, it is all writen there and at some point you even made one comment that you agree with me, right after i left the thread. In the end you didn't rly agree... i guess you only didn't have any arguments left at that point and kind of surrendered to then come back later and use the same wrong arguments vs other ppl again. Waste of time dealing with you as said. I also don't just say somethign is wrong or right, i always explain very detailed. But you seems to forget anyway, who cares. Continue with your nonsense. This is a Ranger thread, i stop talking about Mesmer now here in general.

> > > > > > > 4. Bye!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. Effort =/= results. You did not prove me wrong, just because you spent time and effort and say you did... _doesn't mean you actually did._ For the umpteenth time, link me a post where you believe this to be true and I'll reconsider.

> > > > > > 2. Sorry I think your logic is faulty again. A Mirage's ability to dodge while cc'd is a pure defensive mechanic that gets abused and it is _frequently_ complained about. The same logic applies across the board. For example, Full Counter used to be on too low of a cooldown and present-day Holosmiths have too much sustain. People _are_ vocal about overtuned defensive mechanics. However, I have never heard anyone complaining about GS autos until the upcoming balance patch's preview was released.

> > > > > > 3. I think Chaos is very strong but it's not the cause for Mantras being overpowered. They are both overtuned and deserving on nerfs.

> > > > > > Again, your logical fallacy is: [burden of Proof](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof) - "You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove."

> > > > > > All of your responses to me can be summed up like this... "I'm right, you're wrong. I make sense, you don't make sense. I have arguments, you don't have arguments." without anything substantial to back up any of your claims.

> > > > > > 4. Bye!

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. It is threre black on white, i also gave you enough examples as a summary (without re writing my whole argumentation because again: this is a Ranger not a Mesmer thread) just you being too lazy to re-read the thread after you forgot everything, it seems even your own post where you agree to me, doesn't make it unhappen lol. But nice try.

> > > > > 2. Mirage ability to dodge while cced is intended mechanic and even baseline mechanic of the spec, what do you even compare here? Holo sustain as a whole is broken as hell in particular combined with the perma miniburst dmg, high cc uptime and good mobility. Ofc ppl complain more about that. No one ever said that the 3. skill of Ranger GS auto is comparable broken. Fullcounter has a high offensive component in addition to all the defense. Another comparison doesn't make sense. And in the end, how much the bunch of left in the game gold plebs complain about anything or not never was a good indicator of what is op or unhealthy mechanic or not. As said it doesn't make GS Ranger utterly broken but finally fixing it will also not kill the weapon. And fixing it is by logic the correct, although late move.

> > > > > 3. Nope as said read the Mesmer thread again, there i explained and founded everything very detailed, i don't do it here again. I don't list all the counterplay to MoD and the difference to MoP and why MoD is not broken or op in any means and also not needed for the oneshot, and i don't re-write anything, i did already give a good summary, more then enough for you to be able to remember. I don't do the reasearch for you, it is not my responsibility to do it again. It is all writen and what do ppl do when they forgot about something? They read the book again they learnt it from. It is all there, i don't start that kitten from zero. So again nice try to contradict all the effort i did already in Mesmer thread in a Ranger channel with this nonsense request. Re-read my posts i quoted you or don't. Up to you, i already made my points and they all still stand.

> > > > > 4. Bye again (yeah yeah nonsense always able to trigger me, sad life)

> > > >

> > > > 1. The funny thing is if I was in your shoes I would just link a post to prove my point because it's easy. You haven't linked me any of them because you don't think you've actually proved me wrong.

> > > > 2. I never said that a Mirage's ability to dodge while cc'd _wasn't_ an intended mechanic. Stop trying to twist my words. All I said was that it's a pure defensive mechanic that gets abused and frequently complained about. Again, the same applies to pre-nerf Full Counter and current Holosmith defense/sustain. You said people complain more about overtuned offensive mechanics compared to defensive ones. That's where I disagreed and provided examples of why I have that opinion.

> > > > 3. Again, all of your responses to me can be summed up like this... "I'm right, you're wrong. I make sense, you don't make sense. I have arguments, you don't have arguments." without anything substantial to back up any of your claims.

> > > > 4. Bye again!

> > >

> > > 1. We had that same thing exactly in that Mesmer thread already and i requoted your posts and my posts and i have no intention to do it again and feed your lazyness. It is already there it is more or less the whole thread, like every post of mine which quote a post from you. I do not quote them again in this Ranger thread. It makes no sense to do it. You can just re-read like every single answer i made by quoting you. Every single one since Adam and Eva.

> > > 2. I don't twist your words it simply doesn't make sense to compare that, the Mirage mechanic is intended the 2 secs dodge on Ranger autoattack never was. Aside from that Mirage dodge has a big offensive component as well. **So no, you didn't prove me wrong because your arguments are wrong.** Every of your examples has an offensive component and the difference to stuff like Holo or pre nerf Fullcounter is as mentioned that the extra evade on autoattack on GS never caused to turn GS Ranger any near into the monster lvl of Holo. So ofc ppl complain more about Holo than about one evade more Ranger should not have. And in general what ppl complain about or not isn't any indicator at all if something is op, unhealthy mechanic or not in the first place. So your whole argument that ppl never complained about GS auto until now is not an argument for your point that it never was an issue because ppl never complained before. This is just nonsense, it doesn't matter at all what ppl complained about and what not. I was aware of that issue but it wasn't that big of an issue make me come into forum and complain. But i am not like you though :joy:

> > > 3. All my back up is in the Mesmer thread where it belongs. I don't copy the whole thread into the Ranger channel. That you are too lazy to re-read the Mesmer thread doesn't make all my points disappear, they all still stand. To give you 3 short examples (AGAIN) without re-writing the whole chain of facts and on locig and gameknowledge based arguments: you maybe remember me analzing your Vallun clips (other ppl said the same to you to other clips like the one with Helio on Keyba stream you linked) and prove your statement wrong that the oneshots shown there were not avoidable. I explained pretty well why Vallun just played bad and could have survived there. I remember you on my wall of text explanation about at least 10 counters to MoD and why only MoP is broken and why MoD need to be instant as an interrupt tool and why it is no oneshot tool anymore during you denied that MoD even has a single counter. I remember you how i told you why only looking at tooltip cds in terms of Mantras is only half the truth. If you don't remember my whole chain of facts and arguments then re-read the kitten Mesmer thread. I don't say it again and i don't quote it into Ranger channel. We don't need everything 500 times in the forum. It is already there and every point i made in that thread still stands pretty solid until now. You even agreed to most of it rofl... so pls stop being that narrowed. No nonsense you try to do here will corrupt my points in particular not your lazyness to just re-read the Mesmer thread.

> > > 4. Bye again again

> >

> > 1. You literally said, "Sry i am too lazy." when I told you to link me a post. Again, I'll say it for a third (fourth? fifth?) time...

> > Your logical fallacy is: [burden of Proof](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof) - "You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove."

> > So, it's illogical and incorrect of you to assume that it's _my_ job to constantly disprove all of the claims you're flinging around.

> > 2. You were twisting my words. And again, I'll say it for a third (fourth? fifth?) time...

> > All of your responses to me can be summed up like this... "I'm right, you're wrong. I make sense, you don't make sense. I have arguments, you don't have arguments." without anything substantial to back up any of your claims.

> > 3. Again, I'll say it for a third (fourth? fifth?) time...

> > You literally said, "Sry i am too lazy." when I told you to link me a post.

> > I also posted raw footage of 10 games I played in a row on core mantra mesmer on EU. You can clearly see me rolling over people who aren't as skilled as Vallun (not that he's even that good to begin with). Funnily enough, he's actually rank 53 on EU even though he plays on NA. I'm _always_ higher rated than him on NA and have much more comp experience than he does and a much wider range of classes. So I found it pretty silly when you mentioned my win ratio prior to playing mantra mesmer and the fact that I was rated 1500 _even though_ I prefaced that in my original post where I stated that I dropped rating on purpose to show the build's effectiveness at a variety of skill ranges as I climb back up. I'm also winning 1vXs on the build against Plat 1 players so if that doesn't show you how big the skill difference is even though I'm on 6 times my normal ping, I don't know what will. Oh wait... I do! Let me just 1vX some plat 2 and 3 players as I climb up the ladder again. :)

> > 4. Bye again again!

>

> I said i am too lazy because i already did it. I already proved you wrong in literally every answer to you i quote one of your posts, re-read them all, you don't even need to search just start with Adam and Eva on page one of the Mesmer thread (not page one, i actually joined the thread later, maybe page 3 or something). You also already asked me to re-quote your and my posts directly in the Mesmer thread and i did it back then. So why do it again, in particular into a Ranger thread where it doesn't belong? During you are just too lazy because you try to corrupt my points without the need of arguments because you have none. I mean are you rly that narrowed/ stupid? Or you try to trigger me? You compeltely avoid all my last arguments by just jumping back to a point before i explained why i don't wanna quote again (and i mean AGAIN). I even gave you 3 examples here more than once to make you remember but you just ignore them. This is so obviously just destructive behavior that i have no words anymore...

>

> Yes you now posted some other footage i can analyze step by step and dismantle every successful oneshot as simpel l2p issue on side of the low skilled opponents you face in low Plat games (haven't seen any higher ranked footage from you until now, also not in NA). In the first game already quite in the start i could tell you, that only ppl being totally bad and unaware and not reacting at all to your Mass Invis right in front of their ears and eyes make you able to oneshot these brain-afk bots and not the build you play, even though i agree to Chaosline and stealthspam with PU indeed being an issue, in particular on Coremes where you still have oneshot dmg with such insane sustain.

>

> As said you even agreed to me in the Mesmer thread (at least you said so, i guess it was because you were running out of arguments because i am just right), if you need all my back up in addition to the summary i already gave you here then re-read the Mesmer thread. I am tired of talking about Mesmer in a Ranger channel. And the whole discussion with you is so destructive and useless for everyone in this forum that i rly just stop at this point. Your lvl of narrowness and bias doesn't deserve any more attention. You didn't even say anything substantial in your last posts, it was just repeating contentfree protest to what i say. I am out of kindergarten, play with yourself, thanks.

>

> Final bye!

dude stop please, this is really getting out of hand. shadowpass is right, you started this convo and tell him to do smth. Yet you refuse to do what you want him to do. There is no substance to argue about, you brought nothing to (this) table and you are just repeating the same flawed logic with every post you make. You cannot change someones mind with empty phrases and at this point you are just spamming in this thread.

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> That being said, I would've liked it if they kept the evade. Just don't make it repeatable, if you cancel the attack it should flip over.

this would have been the perfect fix... no more exploiting by auto canceling but still keeping the weapon intact as it was originally planned.