kuyaDEAN.2785

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @kuyaDEAN.2785 said:

> > Those #'s are nice, but only on paper. When the slightest daze interrupts your kneel and you're initiative starved from kneeling again or trying to build might with the now nerfed skill, theoretical dps isn't going to mean much. And you're especially going to feel it if either a thief brings pulmonary for the interrupt, or if a mes brings power lock, preventing you from kneeling again.

> >

> > Now let's assume your positioning is perfect and the enemies have 0 awareness. You still need time for malice to build up while other classes can just start cleaving or applying burns with crazy numbers from the get go. Furthermore your malice stacks just straight up reset after a kill or 20s, while DD damage modifiers stays consistently strong out the gate. It's also bizzarre that malice itself has a cast time when it's so central to the tree if it's to compete with any other trait line. A mark that doesn't connect (be it line of sight, blind, walls, w/e) basically invalidates the tree's worth.

> >

> > And then even with all that aside, a SINGLE reflect will pretty much just ruin your day.

> >

> > So yeah. I don't think you'll be seeing rifle in higher levels of pvp, unless bunkering becomes stupid crazy (lol hot release) to warrant needing such spike damage.

>

> This is one of the reasons why I don't like Gw2 PvP arguments. You're playing your cards like Rifle is the only weapon you'll be bringing to the table. You have ways of avoiding being dazed. And being dazed is not the end of the world. Swap your weapons, or force a reposition. You ALWAYS have options.

Without rifle though, deadeye's saving grace is basically just malice then. And if you're playing without rifle, why bring malice when it has a ramp up period of 20s, resets, AND is single target? DD meanwhile gets a consistent damage modifier to any target in melee range, extra dodges, and various other traits that are just overall strong.

> @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

> > @kuyaDEAN.2785 said:

> > Those #'s are nice, but only on paper. When the slightest daze interrupts your kneel and you're initiative starved from kneeling again or trying to build might with the now nerfed skill, theoretical dps isn't going to mean much. And you're especially going to feel it if either a thief brings pulmonary for the interrupt, or if a mes brings power lock, preventing you from kneeling again.

> >

> > Now let's assume your positioning is perfect and the enemies have 0 awareness. You still need time for malice to build up while other classes can just start cleaving or applying burns with crazy numbers from the get go. Furthermore your malice stacks just straight up reset after a kill or 20s, while DD damage modifiers stays consistently strong out the gate. It's also bizzarre that malice itself has a cast time when it's so central to the tree if it's to compete with any other trait line. A mark that doesn't connect (be it line of sight, blind, walls, w/e) basically invalidates the tree's worth.

> >

> > And then even with all that aside, a SINGLE reflect will pretty much just ruin your day.

> >

> > So yeah. I don't think you'll be seeing rifle in higher levels of pvp, unless bunkering becomes stupid crazy (lol hot release) to warrant needing such spike damage.

>

> Except if you get dazed out of a kneel it's probably a good idea to switch to melee weapons right? The Malice still stacks, damage is still there. You don't HAVE to shoot people, it's probably generally a good idea to swap to your melee set if you get focused a bit (or disengage with mobility)

True you don't have to shoot, but having a fighting chance against the enemy in melee range as deadeye HINGES on the one engaging you being the marked target in mind and the malice having ticked for sometime already so you can even get comparable #'s to daredevil's consistent damage modifiers against all targets within melee range. And if you choose to disengage with shortbow 5, you're going to have to burn precious initiative that the deadeye's rifle skills eat so much of. So either you're going to be already too starved to escape or too starved on your next engagement. Your only out at that point is just slowly crawling away with the stealth elite or your stunbreak utilities, which you may have popped already if you're being jumped.

> @Arance.2698 said:

> Thanks for the response, Robert. Your reasoning on each of these points makes sense, but, all the feedback for deadeye is making it clear that something is _off_ with the spec. I haven't played enough to pass judgement on balance, but deadeye, even more than normal, is obviously teetering on the razor's edge. Stacking multiplying buffs is dangerous cause it turns a minor change of 1 into a major change of 10, and losing 16% on the main dps skill is very worrying. But more importantly than numbers, deadeye feels clunky to play, fiddly to line up, and frustrating to maintain. Mark and kneeling are pure set up skills that don't feel very fun to use because they have significant casting/animations, don't contribute any immediate damage or effect, and their real impact feels disconnected and hidden due to the huge delay of malice generation. Removing the cast on mark helps because even if it's not doing a kitten thing for you now, at least it's not annoying to use up front. I completely understand your desire to keep it for balance, but you're likely going to have to toss it and eat your balance elsewhere because the feel is really bad right now. As for kneel, perhaps a compromise can be reached, and holding a movement direction for ~.5 seconds breaks kneel? (EDIT: Jump to break is probably the better idea.)

>

> Still, when we're talking feel of the spec, malice really is the main subject here. Malice is frustrating because it feels like waiting until your character is able to start operating at full capacity. It comes off as less of a bonus and more a mandatory wait period before becoming effective. Acquire target, wait at least 10 seconds to be a real threat. Enemy dies? Wait 10 more. Switch targets? Wait 10 more. Recast mark? Wait 10 more. Spend 15 seconds fighting? Wait 10 more. On paper it might look like a smooth increase of the power curve, but to the player it's like waiting for the real fight to start. Malice should feel like the build up to beast mode, the climax that all our previous fighting was building to. Instead it feels like a jerky series of false starts, of praying for the stars to finally align because we lack any real control over them. That's really why people are asking for faster generation, or removing some of the resets, or slow stack decay. It's not dps greed, but because it feels like while everyone else is able to hit the ground running, we're stuck here waiting on the timer only to get the rug constantly pulled out from under us.

>

> (Thinking on it, if it were up to me, I'd probably try an even more radical revamp of malice. Have it generated by hitting skills on the mark instead of a timer, greatly reduce or eliminate it's bonuses outside death's judgement, have it slow decay instead of instant reset, having death's judgement consume all stacks of malice on hit. Gives the player a sense of actively participating in it's generation, eliminating constant false starts, a goal it's building toward, and a climatic moment/skill that is the clearly defined reward for building it. Granted, that'd take a big rebalance of the spec to work with it, but it'd feel great.)

>

> EDIT: Radical, pie-in-the-sky idea for Kneel. Make it an automatic effect that occurs when the deadeye stands still for ~1 second. Breaks on movement and other things. Seperate death's judgement to be the new 5 skill. Rewards immobility without tying your own foot down. An unrealistic ask I suppose, but fun to throw out there.

I mentioned my grievances with the spec before, but you super hit the nail on the head about how it FEELS playing deadeye. Just waiting to hit your full potential, and then having your buzz killed by your stacks up and disappearing is the most frustrating thing.

Those #'s are nice, but only on paper. When the slightest daze interrupts your kneel and you're initiative starved from kneeling again or trying to build might with the now nerfed skill, theoretical dps isn't going to mean much. And you're especially going to feel it if either a thief brings pulmonary for the interrupt, or if a mes brings power lock, preventing you from kneeling again.

Now let's assume your positioning is perfect and the enemies have 0 awareness. You still need time for malice to build up while other classes can just start cleaving or applying burns with crazy numbers from the get go. Furthermore your malice stacks just straight up reset after a kill or 20s, while DD damage modifiers stays consistently strong out the gate. It's also bizzarre that malice itself has a cast time when it's so central to the tree if it's to compete with any other trait line. A mark that doesn't connect (be it line of sight, blind, walls, w/e) basically invalidates the tree's worth.

And then even with all that aside, a SINGLE reflect will pretty much just ruin your day.

So yeah. I don't think you'll be seeing rifle in higher levels of pvp, unless bunkering becomes stupid crazy (lol hot release) to warrant needing such spike damage.

Wow. When I heard balance changes, I was wondering what got buffed since it was in such a rough spot.

But the only real change was a nerf? Why? It's already initiative starved trying to spam the the now nerfed skill to build might stacks. That aside, with malice both building so slowly AND THEN resetting after a length of time it's loses out on so much damage.

Add that the class needs too much set up time to bring in pvp (waiting for malice when other classes can just get in there and cleave from the get go) and with bounties almost always having that modifer that makes them immune to ranged attacks, what good is dead eye even for? Granted, you can use the rifle in close range, but again, at that point why not be stabbing them? Malice alone doesn't make up for daredevil's damage modifers in close range.

It feels like the only saving grace of this spec is that it didn't cannibalize an already existing tree's traits. (Cough, daredevil and acrobatics, cough.)