Legion.4198

*Shadowsteps behind you*

"Nothing personal, kid. "


The Kurzicks, alongside their archenemies, the Luxons, were once one of the two vassals people of the Canthan Empire. They used to be described as very devout and religious people that saw everything as a portent or divine message from the human gods and their saints. They used to be organized as a church-state and lead by the Council of Nobles and their Great Houses, each Great Houses having its own patron god and patron saints, who were usually an ancestor of that house. And while all of this may be moot given that they could have been fully absorbed into Canthan culture by GW2, I wonder how Kurzick responded to Kormir's apotheosis and, maybe, the Balthazar's fall from grace. Would Kormir's ascendance meant the rise to power of a new Great House with Kormir as their patron? Would have they been welcomed among the rest of the houses, or would they have been seen as mere upstarts and heretics by the other houses, possibly leading to a religious and political schism within the Kurzick church-state, weakening them and making them easier prey to Emperor Usoku? Could the downfall of Balthazar, assuming they are aware of it, also meant the downfall of House Vasburg as well?

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > @"Legion.4198" said:

> > In 1571, a ninja sharpshooter attempted to assassinate Oda Nobunaga with with two arquebuses fired in a row. If ninjas used guns in real life, why cant assassins in Guild Wars?

>

> Because an arquebus would be classed as a rifle in GW2, and therefore the ninja sharpshooter you refer to would be a Deadeye.

Of course. I was merely pointing out that real ninjas would gladly used guns, if given half the chance, so did Samurais, Ashigaru, and Sōhei Monks ( Saika Ikki monks being renowned gunsmith) in Japan during Sengoku period (15th and 16th centuries).

As for Elona, I was disappointed to see no examples of undead musketeers among Palawa Joko's armies. But then, again, the Zaishen, particularly Zafirah went around with what it looks like a 20th century bolt action rifle.

In 1571, a ninja sharpshooter attempted to assassinate Oda Nobunaga with with two arquebuses fired in a row. If ninjas used guns in real life, why cant assassins in Guild Wars?

Maybe you could make horses in armor and be given higher HP and skills similar to the raptor. Of course, you could go all memelord and make horses the first LEGENDARY Mount capable of flying, walk over water, swim, teleport, and breath fire.

Only if I get a Canthan ship of the line / ironclad as my home instance.

The classical archetype of the blind ronin samurai is the perfect match for the revenant. Therefore one that carries a greatsword be a Tengu or a Norn.

My preference is still the staff for a standard-bearer. Still, If the pistol ends up being the pick for the warrior (which I hope would be modelled as a professional soldier or an officer), then my suggestion is to take inspiration from reiters , cuirassiers and conquistadors from the pike and shot era. Most likely, it would be a Luxon or Imperial speciality.


Meanwhile, it is likely that whatever elite spec is reserved for the Guardian, I suspect it will be a Shing Jea/Kurzick one.

Rifle followed by Naginata polearms as a reference to the Sōhei warrior monks known for their craftsmanship in gunsmithing and musketeer armies during Sengoku-jidai period of Japan.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > > @"Noah Salazar.5430" said:

> > > Oh i was wrong than

> > > But same, you can put plot to Cantha

> > > How thay started using new sorce of power xxx or developed new technology over years

> > > So will say again that limiting to Cantha theme isin't much nesesery, eventualy only name

> >

> > Still too early to say since we know very little about Cantha and their development in Magic, technology, and Science. They have been isolated for years and for all we know they could end up going full anime technology civilization when we finally go there with each layer of Cantha City being Advance tech (highest level with the rich live full of Magic tech mechs, advance combat armor soldiers guarding the area, Advance High Tech Magic Academy, and etc), basic tech (mid level of the city), and old GW1 style builds (lowest level where the poor live) along with their military being more modern by depending on Firearms more while swords, bows, staffs, and etc have become more outdated method of fighting only the poor or mid-level citizens who can't afford the advance firearms would use.

> >

> >

>

> This would be kinda odd, tho.

> Usually, isolation has the opposite effect to advancement. Diversity and cultural exchange are beneficial for progress, since it allows exchange of ideas and combination of different views and knowledge about topics.

>

> With Cantha throwing out all non-humans and potentially cutting off every interaction with them, that is an additional hindrance. Some of the races with the highest technological level are non-human like Asura and Charr.

> So I wouldn't expect Cantha to go super hightech.

>

> Sure, they could be super advanced, but it would feel kinda strange for me because of this.

On the contrary, it is Tyria the continent that has been completely isolated by the dragons, not the other way around. Meanwhile, Cantha could have easily changed its policy over 200 years, especially if they have been under pressure by the Deep Sea Dragon to seek new resources, tributaries, and subjects.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Legion.4198" said:

>

> I see your point, but while Cantha draws alot of inspiration from Asian cultures, we should not forget that Cantha also is an own land with own lore in this game.

> Which is the reason why I came up with the spec idea of a plaguedoctor in the first place, since Cantha really had a magical plague ravaging in their land.

>

Honestly, I think I like your concept better than mine as it would allow us to play as a mad scientist archetype in the style of a Frankenstein or Dr Jekyll and Mister Hyde. My take was more focused on alchemy which might end up being too magical for the engineer.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > **Elementalist**

> >

> > As others have said, introducing a fifth element to the Elementalist would be fitting. The Wuxing adds metal to the to the classic four elements. Meanwhile in the Europe, aether was believed to be the fifth element that filled space above the terrestrial sphere. Luminiferous aether was thought to be the medium for the propagation of life until the beginning of the 20th century.

> >

> > On the other hand, as I have said before, a Transmuter would also be fitting. The transmutation of metals could also be used in terms of turning people, weapons and armor into gold or lead, rusting people’s armor and so on.

> >

>

> Minor detail about Wuxing you mentioned: there are 5 elements in Wuxing, but metal as a 5th addition is not the only difference to the 4 elements teachings from Europe.

> Elementalist uses these four elements: air, earth, water, fire

> Wuxing uses these five: earth, water, fire, **wood**, **metal**

>

> Wuxing doesn't consider air as one of the elements and also adds wood, not just metal.

>

True, I forgot about that.

I like many of the suggestion already presented and some of them coincide with my thoughts. Many of these are obviously thematically linked to Cantha, although I suspect that a some of of them will end up being not so. Still, here is my take:

**Warrior**

We already have the berserker and we have a mystical warrior in the form of the speallbreaker. Like others have already said, I think the next archetype should be professional soldier or a strategist who leads men into the fray like a Warmaster, Warlord or Standard-Bearer. Of course, the ideal would be to bring polearms into the game. Absent of that option, the staff seems like the most natural weapon option.

**Guardian**

For the guardian I would suggest something inspired either by the Japanese Sōhei Warrior Monk. While Nagitana polearms are traditionally associated with them, Sōhei warriors became known for their skill and expertise in manufacturing and using lots of guns during the Sengoku Jidai. A second source of inspiration could be some kind of witch/vampire-hunter, particularly if it is associated with the Ministry of Purity. Still, this later option would overlap somewhat with the dragonhunter which is already inspired by it. I personally favour rifles, but off-hand swords and pistol would work too.

**Revenant**

I think a legendary Tengu Ronin Samurai (Talon Silverwing) or a legendary Norn Champion (Jora, Olaf Olafson, or Asgeir Dragonrender) would be fitting, although the former is somewhat taken by the Renegade already. Blind samurai with a katana (greatsword) is a classical archetype and would fit the Revenant perfectly. The same goes for a Norn champion armed with a greatsword.

**Ranger**

The ranger has already two highly magically specializations in the form of the Druid and the Soulbeast. For the ranger I would suggest bringing the Ranger down to Earth a bit and make some kind of Pack-Hunter or Monster-Slayer who uses pets (perhaps with rifles or hammers) to hunt down its prey. A Freebooter pirate specialization could also work, but, aside from the Crimson Skull, Cantha is less known for piracy than Elona or Tyria unless Cantha ends up being the "Ocean Expansion" as many people suspect.

**Thief**

Personally, I’m in favour of a Shadowmage or mage-bandit, like an eldritch scoundrel, shadowdancer or an arcane trickster from D&D. The daredevil already fills the martial artist while the deadeadye is clearly a bounty hunter/assassin. Cantha was already known for the Assassin profession back in Factions but the basic thief already has some overlap with the daggers and shadowstep skills. Meanwhile, Kaineng has a history with organized crime such as the Jade Brotherhood and the Am Fah which could have easily evolved into triad-like secret societies that use dark magic, like shadow arts, to commit crime. As a thief elite spec that uses magic, my weapon of choice would be the focus or a off-hand sword.

**Engineer**

Like others have said alchemy have long been associated with ancient China so an Alchemist engineer would make a lot of sense. The first Emperor of China, Qin Shi, sought the Elixir of Life to gain immortality and it is thought that he died from ingesting mercury pills made by his alchemist and court physicians in pursuit of that goal. While Chinese alchemy is closely related to Taoism and traditional medicine, both Chinese and European uses of alchemy are similar in their search of elixirs capable of extending one’s life and the transmutation of metals. The transmutation of metals could also be included into the theme but it might be more fitting of a transmuter elementalist.

On the other hand, we have gunpowder which was a product of alchemical experiments too. The first confirmed reference to gunpowder goes back to the year 808, although you can find possible references to it as early as the year 142. The Wujing Zongyao, a Chinese military compendium written in in 1044, has a long compendium of weapons including formulas and use of gunpowder (fire arrows, incendiary bombs, rockets, grenades, smoke boms, flamethrowers. You can find various odd names for gunpowder weapons in this book like “flying incendiary club for subjugating demons”, “caltrop fire ball”, “big bees nest”, “ten-thousand fire flying sand magic bomb”, “flying rats, “fire birds”, “fire oxen”, etc. These would coalesce into a smaller number of weapons like gunpowder arrows, fire lances, multiple rockets launchers, firearms, cannons, mines, and bombs. Early gunpowder weapons such as hangonnes and cannons would later arrive to Europe in 1320 just before the Hundred Year’s war.

While both the longbow and the shortbow seems suitable to such elite spec, the basic thief already has explosive and poison gas arrows with the shortbow. Another option would be to introduce the scepter or the focus as a method to mix on the fly alchemical components or a practical use of magic suitable to the engineer like with the Zephyrite crystals and the Holomancer.

**Necromancer**

We have the Reaper which is clearly meant to evoke an unstoppable, cold-bloded, juggernaut killer from slasher movies, and the scourge which a sand-master which kinda remind me of a plaguemaster cultist. Occultist, ritualist, or fortune tellers like the Japanese Onmyōdō which specialized in magic and divination and protecting cities from evil spirits with spells and paper talismans (ofuda) could serve for inspiration for a Canthan-inspired necromancer. Cantha already has a tradition of fortune telling. Similar traditions exist in China and other countries in East Asia.

**Mesmer**

I can imagine mesmers being heavily use by both the Canthan aristocracy in fancy duels, and the Ministry of Purity for propaganda and espionage purposes. Mesmers are already well represented among human nobility, and I suspect they would be no exception in Cantha. I suggest main-hand pistol.

**Elementalist**

As others have said, introducing a fifth element to the Elementalist would be fitting. The Wuxing adds metal to the to the classic four elements. Meanwhile in the Europe, aether was believed to be the fifth element that filled space above the terrestrial sphere. Luminiferous aether was thought to be the medium for the propagation of life until the beginning of the 20th century.

On the other hand, as I have said before, a Transmuter would also be fitting. The transmutation of metals could also be used in terms of turning people, weapons and armor into gold or lead, rusting people’s armor and so on.

It's been 200 years. While Cantha become closed-off its frontiers and became isolationist with the rise of Usoku, that happened 200 years ago. That's a long period of time, more than people often think. Charlemagne's Empire was as far back to Joan of Arc as she is to today some 600 years give it or take. Neither culture, society, borders, or technology remained static. Paris went from a small city to a metropolis of a quarter of million people. Mail was replaced by plated armour, gunpowder was popularised, sugar was introduced to the European diet.

Tyria hasn't remained unchanged either. Tyria losts its capital Lion's Arch to the sea and founded Divinity's Reach. The Asura established themselves and expanded Rata Sum. And, while I find it unrealistic, the Charr went from nomadic barbarians to a steampunk society in 200 years (my pet theory is that they learned from the Dredge and scavenged stuff from Ascalon). I'd like to see Cantha receive the same treatment. While we have known almost nothing from Cantha in at least 100 years with the rise of Zaithan, it is arguably Tyria the continent that has been completely isolated from the rest of the world, not Cantha. Personally, I'd favor a Cantha that has been actively fighting the Deep Sea Dragon and searching for new lands and people seeking tribute and resources to exploit and feed Kaineng's massive population, armies and industry rather than a complete isotionalist one. Maybe you could mix Japanese or Chinese styles with European ones from the colonialist period. Have Luxon Conquistadors, Kurzick Landsknechts, and Imperial Line Infantry like the one used during the Napoleonic Wars or, more modern, the Meji Restoration in Japan.

I wonder if Aurene uses her new toy as a cell phone to call Jormag and tell her about the latest canthan cartoons she has watched on the scrying pool. Maybe she shares her fanart and fanfics with her too.

I'd prefer a larger selection of facial hair like beards. The one right now is quite limited.

It depends on how Kaineng megacity is handled. It is the biggest city in the setting, kinda like Ba Sing Se from Avatar: The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra. Back in Gw1, Kaineng occupied a good bit of the Canthan continent. It was so big, multi-layered and densely populated, that I wouldn't find it odd, if Kaineng's population is bigger than the rest of the intelligent species on the planet combined. It was inspired after Kowloon Walled City after all, a former Hong Kong city district so packed together that sunlight didn't reach the street. Kaineng has always reminded me of a cyberpunk Neo-city one step away from having street samurais, hackers and motor gangs (and perhaps a crater filled with water caused by a Elder Dragon nuke because why not?) with poor districts separated from rich one by massive walls and legions of guards and robots, while a under-hive survives from the scraps form the upper city levels. If they made at least one section of Old Kaineng, it could easily be made a true urban jungle like Tangled Deeps or Verdant Green.

A sword or an axe is a weapon optimized for killing human-sized foe. It is not well-suited for killing beasts bigger than yourself such as horses (like it is the case in real life) or monsters (in the fantasy genre). Attempting to kill a monster with a one-handed sword would be suicidal as the monster would inevitably have a lot more reach than you do. Greatsword was a welcomed addition as it partially fills the gap but there is still monsters that are even bigger for which a spear, a pike or a polearm (or you on a warhorse and carrying a lance) would be better option. Not to mention, polearms are better suited for killing foes in plate armor than swords. As for the elite for which class? The Warrior (Warlord) would be the obvious pick, but also the Ranger (Hunter), and the Guardian (War Monk) (although I would rather give rifles to the guardian based on Japan's Sōhei Warrior Monks during Sengoku period).

It's not like the concept is alien to Guild Wars.





I'd rather have polearms.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Legion.4198" said:

> > I wonder if some kind of Alchemist in search of mastering the Philosopher's Stone, Metal Transmutation (turn people into gold etc), Golems and the elixir of Immortality would be fitting. At least the Philosopher's Stone is already a one of the many craftings materials so.

>

> If we get an elite spec with alchemy theme, I would like them to explore Hylek lore with it some more.

>

> Hylek are one of the more "primitive" societies in Tyria, yet they are known to be exceptional alchemists. That's because of their natural resistance against a wide array of poisons and toxins, which allowed them to experiment with more dangerous chemicals unharmed.

>

> Especially since Anet removed so many "dangerous chemicals" from the engineer thematically, this is something I want to explore.

> Acidic elixirs, acidic coating, deadly mixture.... these are all gone. And while I can understand why they were removed when it comes to gameplay, this also removed the "poisoner" feeling of the engineer. The alchemy trait line is now **purely supportive**.

>

> I want to be a maniac wearing his gasmask and spreading poison gas and acid all over the place again. =(

How about a using the Chinese elements in Wuxing as a basis? I can see acids being related to wood. Replace the Engineer's tool belt mechanic with transmutations that cause or are charged by condis.


I wonder if some kind of Alchemist in search of mastering the Philosopher's Stone, Metal Transmutation (turn people into gold etc), Golems and the elixir of Immortality would be fitting. At least the Philosopher's Stone is already a one of the many craftings materials so.

I think that some kind of Magic-Bandit elite specialization (Triad?) that synergizes with Shadow Arts, Trickery, Shadow Stepping and support would be fitting for Cantha. Besides the lawful Assassin Guilds, Cantha has a history with well-organized criminal organizations such as the Jade Sea and the Am Fah which could have easily evolved into secret societies. As for the weapon, I'm going to be unorthodox and suggest the focus for black magic tricks.