Bart.5296

I love the idea.

Brings so much more depth to legend mechanics. Basically we need more systems like this and weapon skills which effects change a bit basing on currently active legend (just like in case of trident).

The fexibility it would give us would be a nice payoff for the class overall lacking in customisation possibilities (due to the utilities being bound to legends).

My Ginger tattooed norn rev.

Wanted to give him dark-shamanistic vibe.





I like both ideas above. What's most important, that shouldn't being a real problem for devs as it seems that most mof technology already exist withing the game... I just feel that this sort of change//revamp would make of renagade a proper and dope elite spec...

I Know there have already been few threads of this sort but i would like to add my two coppers to the subject. I will list problems first, then propose some possible solutions next.

PLEASE NOTE: I was trying to keep the suggestions "down to the earth" - all the modification suggestions are (I belive) pretty easy to implement by devs - since most of thechnology is already there.

As it has been said within the community many times Kalla struggles with some major issues:

**PROBLEMS:**

1.) Most notably - gameplay incosistency with elite spec theme as well as with entire Revenant archetype and playstyle. Lack of mobility via shortbow - Revenant's singature move is a blink implemented to weapon skill animation. Since shortbow is a weapon which brings mobility to mind as well "ambushy", "guerilla" style of fighting we simply cannot give up on this sort of skill type. Shortbow needs it.

2.) Summons being clunky; promoting passive boring gameplay and are loudy, making hard to track what happen on screen.

3.) F2 and F3 skills which doesn't really have synergy.

4.) Boring traitline which doesn't promote active gameplay. Lack of interesting synergies.

**SOLUTIONS:**

A.) Obviously faster short bow animations across entire 5 skills.

B.) Seven shot should be modified - while releasing ONE arrow Renegade shadowstep back, in similar fashion to thief's shortbow 3, but for the bigger distance. The traveled distance is covered by the very narrow but long field lasting for short amount of time - causing torment for anyone that cross the filed or is strucked by the shot.

C.) Spirit crush - casting time could stay as long as it's now - however Rev should have superspeed while casting the volley. The arrow Volley should hit the ground without delay or at least with very short one. Rev should be able to cast the skill no matter what direction is he heading (that would bring good balance between risk/payoff and give much more imerssion on guerilla fight style);

D.) Scorchrazor should work like warrior's longbow 5 - long exectuion time, readable animation, but the projectile it self travels with great velocity.

2.) Let us summon only one ghost at the time. Ghost in exchange follows you just as pets does. The idea is to fill the niche somewhere between turrects/ pets. Ghosts would serve as "walking wells" in this scenario. Tha would make a fluid gameplay and one oriented on skillfully switching from one summon to another, allowing to creatively adapt to what happens on battlefield. On top of that - while ghosts keep their current passives - there should be mechanic which grants buffs/additional effects upon summoning - just the moment ghost appears specific effect is triggered.

Darkrazor's Daring and Breakrazor's Bastion summons should be instant, no cast time, and appear at the feet of the revenant (no targeting). This is to help with Renagade's survivability and to save previous time which otherwise is needed to ground target.

Darkrazor's Daring - e.g. of effect/additional mechanic upon summoning - it should grant 1,5 sec of evasion. Each of the ghost would have ofc it's own, specific mechanics/effects.

Razorclaw's Rage and Icerazor's Ire - summon should have cast time, since they are offensive.

Soulcleave's Summit - should be ground targetable, cast time and heal a bit team members upon placing. Upkeep cost should be reduced - this would allow to make some space for vampiric builds (with Assassin's Annihilation).

3.) make F3 and F4 around kalla's fervor stacks consumption.

F3 should work as it does right now, however - to cast it you would have to use your current stacks. Thus passive condi buff is exchanged for more aoe "on demand"

F4 aside of alacrity should give you either small healing buff or 1sec of evasion - this way, you are given option to sacrifice your stacks for more survivability.

4.) trait should be spit into following subjects:

- adept - being about kallas fervor managemnt and upgrades - e.g one trait could give faster stack generation, other bigger passive effect (similar to some alredy existing traits)

- master - this should be about short bow upgrades - e.g - one trait could give 2sec of quickness upon slowing // snaring opponent (10 sec icd - offensive, pvp oriented), other could give additional condi stack on successfull hit (offensive, pve oriented); another one on bigger range and smaller shortbow cd (funtional);

- grandmaster - could be about ghost upgrades and manipulation - eg. trait which enhance effects upon summoning ghosts; other could enhance ghost's passive effects, another reducing cd for summoning etc.

@ANET: Hope that...provide some constructive feedback, or at worst some inspiration.

@Community, rev players - I count on your comments, positive or negative. Let me know what do you think ;)

Cheers!

> @"Gihn.1043" said:

> everyone has such an amazing hard-on for the greatsword, but i like what another poster said: 4/5 out of 9 professions already have it. what are you going to run, gs and sw/sw? thats too many blades. There is a serious need for some really underused weapons in this game, and greatsword is most definitely one of the most used. shortbow was another cool one, but we all see what the devs did with it in renegade.

> give us DUAL-pistol!! blindfolded melee mystical gun-fu soldier class is extremely unique, compared to the greatsword option. have it be able to switch between melee and range, a stance within stances maybe, or split it mainhand melee pistol and offhand range pistol. and this is even taking into account rev's sore need for weapon variety, and just look at the different ways spellbreakers could use the daggers! the mix of pistols will give rev some much needed flexibility in builds, even if not to the extent spellbreaker did.

> no matter what though, everyone on this thread seems to want a serious damage spec for the rev and not yet another support. hence: dual pistol, power spec for next expansion. NOT EVERY CLASS NEEDS TO WIELD ETERNITY, people

In my opinion there is no such a thing as "too much blades" :P

But I understand not everyone may like blades as much as some - that's the reason behind the poll - to indicates to devs what are the "moods" and impressions regarding rev's next weapon.

As for pistols....I don't like it. An frankly, most of the public don't like this idea of technology-revenant as well. Neither do devs, I have troubles with finding a source, but i'm pretty sure i recall interview in which one of the dev claimed that revenant is somewhat the opposite of engineer - it looks toward past, unlike engies. Thus, revenant naturally more resonates with "ways of old magic", blades, bows, shortbows, malee etc. Don't think gunpowder fits heavy armor classes in general - since solider professions draws inspirations from medival warfare // classic high fantasy. Especially it contradicts rev, which is this shamanistic warrior, taping powers from the "underworld // other dimensions".

More than agree with you on missing mobility. I think we need reduce greatly shortbow cast time (accordingly somewhere between 1/3 sec to 1/2 sec.). Some skills needs complete rework - imo shortbow 2 should cause torment, and sevenshot should be removed and replaced by revenant's version of "disabling shot" (thief) or "quickshot" (ranger).

Currently Kalla traits seems to be boring, focused in majority on passive-offensive mechanics. Instead, we should be able to pick between defensive/evasive traits and offensive ones. Traits also need to promote active gameplay and have more synergies. "Wrought Iron-Will" is a good example of this sort of trait; I just think is not rewarding enough and needs to synergize with another powerfull trait.

As for utilities - additional mechanics as you mentiom above are such a great idea. But I also think it would be nice to have some additional effects for the moment spirit is summoned, e.g "darkrazor" should grant 2 sec of distortion/evade upon being summoned etc.

I also like mechanics basing on Kalla favor consumption. I even started a thread about "orders from above" consuming stacks of Kalla favor and making revenant to dodge backword, similar to riposting shadows.

Overall I really love Kalla theme and it just need some work, to become great specialization and ton of fun, which - currently - is not the case unfortunately.

> @"Headcase.4618" said:

> > @"Bart.5296" said:

> > Tbh I don't like the techno-revenant idea at all. I think it doesn't fit and it's contradictory to overall rev's theme "shaman/mystic warrior" .

> > Gameplay wise, I also don't see this working out for rev - since rev seems to aim at place between thief and warrior with bit of ele's flexibility.

> >

> > I advocate the recent poll result (for next elite-s weapon) - greatsword.

> >

> > I think what we currently need is a brawler/blademaster legend focused on fighting in the front line - being able to survive by wise and ACTIVE skill use (no passives plz!)

> > Legend ? Hmmm... Jora naturally comes to mind... However, no one said it has to be Tyrian legend known to players! Considering we are probably heading to Cantha next expansion it could be a local legend, not currently known to northern Tyria (Tyria as a planet, not land). So imagine Canthan swordmaster; a legendary user of two handed blades - wandering swordmaster / ronin archetype as next legend. Ohhh... that would be so cool! Meybe some additional lore to collect/search about him ? That would enhance the immersion in new location and RPG experiance.

> >

> > For the mechanics, intially i thought about some kind of adrenaline bar, however, it doesn't seem a good idea since rev already handle few types of resources: CD, energy and upkeep. Instead, we could use:

> >

> > for F skill mechanic - skill which alters mainhand/twohand weapon skill 3 (similar to thief's dual wielding). Activating F2 skill change the weapon skill 3. The altered skills emphasis on blocking and then punishing or dashing attack, depending on weapon used. Skill's CD would be decreased by successfully blocking and dodging attacks via regular skills. That would promote active play, and reinforce focus on brawling/frontline maneuvering gameplay.

> >

> > Greatsword skills:

> >

> > 1.) autohit ("mist dance") fluid 3 hit combo, with last cut sending out projectile wave in narrow cone (since we already have too much aoe's) - all attacks obviously mist-flavored, with this pretty black-red-white esthetics;

> > 2.) dashing cut ("dashing mists") - traveling 900 distance, dmg everything on it's way - long distance compensated by the narrow width of the travel vector, 1/2 sec execution time, no target skill, invisibility frames during dash (smiliar to hammer 3, but wayyy faster, and foward move only);

> > 3.) thrust ("frigid thrust") - thrust type skill, causing short chill or/and slow, short distance, short execution time - skill meant to be a set up for a bigger hit sort of natural combo set up;

> > 4.) Uppercut slash ("arcing mists") - big hit, another one aside of "dashing mists", cuts upward, 2/3 sec execution, big hit, one target, quite big hitbox / distance for a malee hit, strip 2 boons, and additionally remove stability, if target affected by either slow or chill;

> > 5.) block hit ("black reversal") - blocks all attacks for 1.2 sec. The opponent who dealt the most dmg in the meantime is marked. After successfully blocked skills 5 alters to "back implosion" - For next 10 sec, Revenant can cause marked target to "implode" dealing 150% dmg blocked by the target (equals the biggest hit, not overall dmg dealt) and dazing target for 1,5 sec, if health below 50% stunning; works for 1200 distance; - this is the only hard cc for this weapon;

> >

> > Heal, ultimate, utilities - stances, physical skills or shouts. All the above having mist theme, to further add flavor to revenant profession; black-red-white misty-wormhole esthetics.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Did you just describe Shiro with a greatsword?

Not quite -

1.) shiro has no dash on weapon set while the utility blink needs target and don't deal any dmg per se;

2.) shiro/sword has no block...it once was, on sword offhand, but it isn't there anymore and certainly not with following mechanic like the one above;

It rather bring 'counter attack' to the mind - but with dual phase mechanics, one target, and "long distance detonation/cc" alter skill;

3.) gs 3 would rather reminds spellbreakers dagger 3 (quick interrupt, very close range) instead of slow homing missiles from sword 2. Especially take a look on it as a setup for gs 4. Or synergy: gs 3, weapon swap + quickness from "song of the mists", then sword 3... that's just ad hoc example....

4.) you consider sword + shiro legend as one unit, which is not always the case;

Tbh I don't like the techno-revenant idea at all. I think it doesn't fit and it's contradictory to overall rev's theme "shaman/mystic warrior" .

Gameplay wise, I also don't see this working out for rev - since rev seems to aim at place between thief and warrior with bit of ele's flexibility.

I advocate the recent poll result (for next elite-s weapon) - greatsword.

I think what we currently need is a brawler/blademaster legend focused on fighting in the front line - being able to survive by wise and ACTIVE skill use (no passives plz!)

Legend ? Hmmm... Jora naturally comes to mind... However, no one said it has to be Tyrian legend known to players! Considering we are probably heading to Cantha next expansion it could be a local legend, not currently known to northern Tyria (Tyria as a planet, not land). So imagine Canthan swordmaster; a legendary user of two handed blades - wandering swordmaster / ronin archetype as next legend. Ohhh... that would be so cool! Meybe some additional lore to collect/search about him ? That would enhance the immersion in new location and RPG experiance.

For the mechanics, intially i thought about some kind of adrenaline bar, however, it doesn't seem a good idea since rev already handle few types of resources: CD, energy and upkeep. Instead, we could use:

for F skill mechanic - skill which alters mainhand/twohand weapon skill 3 (similar to thief's dual wielding). Activating F2 skill change the weapon skill 3. The altered skills emphasis on blocking and then punishing or dashing attack, depending on weapon used. Skill's CD would be decreased by successfully blocking and dodging attacks via regular skills. That would promote active play, and reinforce focus on brawling/frontline maneuvering gameplay.

Greatsword skills:

1.) autohit ("mist dance") fluid 3 hit combo, with last cut sending out projectile wave in narrow cone (since we already have too much aoe's) - all attacks obviously mist-flavored, with this pretty black-red-white esthetics;

2.) dashing cut ("dashing mists") - traveling 900 distance, dmg everything on it's way - long distance compensated by the narrow width of the travel vector, 1/2 sec execution time, no target skill, invisibility frames during dash (smiliar to hammer 3, but wayyy faster, and foward move only);

3.) thrust ("frigid thrust") - thrust type skill, causing short chill or/and slow, short distance, short execution time - skill meant to be a set up for a bigger hit sort of natural combo set up;

4.) Uppercut slash ("arcing mists") - big hit, another one aside of "dashing mists", cuts upward, 2/3 sec execution, big hit, one target, quite big hitbox / distance for a malee hit, strip 2 boons, and additionally remove stability, if target affected by either slow or chill;

5.) block hit ("black reversal") - blocks all attacks for 1.2 sec. The opponent who dealt the most dmg in the meantime is marked. After successfully blocked skills 5 alters to "back implosion" - For next 10 sec, Revenant can cause marked target to "implode" dealing 150% dmg blocked by the target (equals the biggest hit, not overall dmg dealt) and dazing target for 1,5 sec, if health below 50% stunning; works for 1200 distance; - this is the only hard cc for this weapon;

Heal, ultimate, utilities - stances, physical skills or shouts. All the above having mist theme, to further add flavor to revenant profession; black-red-white misty-wormhole esthetics.

Well, dagger seems fine for me as in classic european martial art it was used in pair with 1h sword or rapier to help blocking, parring and oponent blade-trap

Hi Anet,

Could we bring back old offhand sword skills in form of new offhand weapon - dagger?

I mean there are already very few weapons Revenant could currently use, and lack of defensive core rev offhand.

I'm not an developper but it seems that the most work have been already done - skills and animations are already created, now it seems that only mapping it to new weapon left.

Thought the same thing. Although we still need to make animations faster, imho remade sevenshot and incorporate some kind of evasion animation frames to one of the SB skills.

Hi Anet,

Could we bring back old offhand sword skills in form of new offhand weapon - dagger?

I mean there are already very few weapons Revenant could currently use, and lack of defensive core rev offhand.

I'm not an developper but it seems that the most work have been already done - skills and animations are already created, now it seems that only mapping it to new weapon remains.

Thanks for answer or simply taking it into account :3

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> I actually think revenant should have a general set of utilities, a heal and an elite skill that are not tied to a legend. Instead you could slot them anywhere.

Agree. I think that would be good for a variety of reasons. First - it would bring a lot of flexibilty (for which Rev thirst so much...). Second - it seems as a relatively easy solution/implementation for devs to make.

Someone on this very forum once complained about legend being stucked with specific type of utilities - like calla with those turrets/summons. And ofc we can adress it to every legend. Giving us some general utilities would break this stiff pattern and allow for more flexibility and creativity. That could also solve the problem of smaller utility number compared to other professions.

"Orders from Above" replacement idea - since f4 is in majority useless, (not synergizing with whole of renegade machanics; not fitting the profession flavour ) and we lacks survivability both in pve and pvp why not completely rework it in following fashion:

- ambushers retreat - activating a skill consumes all of your kalla farvor (or half of the cap amount - this way it could use ammunition mechanics) making you dash backward through the mists (similar fashion to riposting shadows), healing for a small/moderate amount and leaving enemies slowed (at the place of skill activation).

This way we not only hit the flavour of "ambusher" which Kalla legend -at least on paper - aim toward but given the mobility it allows us for more survivability and thus some pvp possabilities - like shiro / mallyx combo, etc.

It's fair trade off imo - you sacriface a lot of dps buff for sake of surviving and cc not mention it's hell more interesting / fitting revenant overall theme and mechanics than current skill.

This post is a suggestion for anet from a concerned rev fan (yes, meybe i'm naive but who knows, meybe someone will actually read this post and think it through) as well rev players - please give me your feedback :3

> @Zsoak.5409 said:

> Thank you for this topic, I whole-heartedly agree with your points.

> I think most of you are familiar with this picture (it's from the official Wiki page): 

> When I made my (norn) warrior I wanted to be **that** type of fighter shown in the middle of the concept art. Unfortunately not only Greataxes doesn't exist in the game, the whole warrior concept went to the opposite direction.

> I really enjoyed the power variant of the original Berserker though (before it was totally gutted by continuous nerfs), it gave me the brutish juggernaut feeling whenever I went berserk, but now in end-game content you're forced to pew-pew with your Longbow and to slap things with a wet noodle Sword while watching some DoT numbers rolling... Moreover I'm not really happy with the daggers either. I mean _daggers_, seriously?! In the hands of my max-sized bulky norn? Laughable at the very least.

> Currently only the core warrior is what still slightly provides that 'warrior feeling' to me. I like condi builds on some classes (ranger or necro for example, where it feels more natural) but I simply refuse to go this direction with my warrior - with a warrior I simply want to hit things hard and fast.

> And don't get me wrong, I'm all up for build diversity and I do get that some people love condi warrior (it's indeed really nice to have different playstyles), I only want to at least balance those DPS numbers to be **remotely close** to each other to provide a freakin **actual choice** for people, and don't make one build obsolate to the other. Now a support condi cPS does what, almost 2 times the damage the most selfish power DPS build can output? What is this joke, seriously.

> And yes, not long ago there was a state when both condi and power was viable - why they had to screw it up this bad is just way beyond me. And unfortunately it seems like Spellbreaker won't bring a cure to this (at least not in PvE).

The archetype of a "warrior" is a very wide one and it includes a lot of sub archetypes. Beside this brute "juggernaut" style you mentioned, you can named "blademaster", "fencer" or clever, sturdy, seasoned fighter. While core warrior profession in guild wars 2 seems to draw a bit inspiration from each of these sources it's elite specializations which aims into more refined/specialized archetype, what in my opinion is best. This way we have more variety: while berserker seems to correspond to juggernaut tyle of warrior, Spellbreaker hits more of a "blade master", "warrior monk" theme and this is wonderful - it helps bring to the life/game exactly the character you desire and made up in your mind.