Scar.1793

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> Oh noes, rev isn't able to kill people by spamming in a rapid succession anymore. Still superior, faster porting to thief and superior burst + sustain. Stop complaining.

Hey that reminds me of Deadeyes, Rangers and Mesmers back when I played. Good times!

Again like I said in a previous comment so much for making separate tooltips for PvE/PvP... but hey no big loss PvP side, it was always a letdown since release in 2012.

> @"RabbitUp.8294" said:

> Sword 2, 4 and 5 are your main damaging skills (besides the auto), and they are hardly slow. Unless you are hellbent on spamming 3, I'm not sure why you feel sword/sword is slow or low damage, as neither of those are true.

I can tell you never played Revenant before these changes.

5 used to be faster, and especially 4.

2 got butchered. 3 was always ever since they started to change it a DPS loss.

Compare early Rev or Rev 1.5 - 2 years ago. Its pace is very different.

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Scar.1793" said:

>

> > I have no sympathy for them being so OP it made me sick to see such stupidity being present and barely touched for years.

> >

> > They deserve the nerfbat. Then again, Anet are not famous for their balance patches so I lost all hope.

>

> I'm also glad they nerfed Mesmer because they have been dominant in all the metas over the years.

> It's just that now that Anet is deciding to nerf something, they absolutely dumpster it to the point it can barely compare to anything else which is a really bad sign of their balance philosophy.

>

> What's next?

>

> FB is pretty darn strong right now, but what if they become the meta dominant Profession? Repeat of what happened to Mesmer where they just hammer it?

> What about Rev as well?

>

> This sort of balance trend is what I like to call backwards balancing where they just hammer stuff into the ground, then hammer the next dominant meta pick, then so on and so forth until everything is rock bottom and need hardcore buffs.

>

It’s truly a weird philosophy in terms of balance.

I stopped playing since with each patch back when I played they changed Revenant power spec and swords again and again. Going from a fast character to a slow clunky bastard.

It’s just not enjoyable anymore especially in PvE.

Why bother with another class ?

If anything it’s mostly those balance updates that made me quit. I’ve seen some bad stuff but here it’s really a (bad) reference for me.

I don’t play anymore but I dared to login to see my character again.

Oh boy, they really kept on butchering this class.

Now not only the damage is significantly lowered across the board, the skills are slow as hell.

So much for not separating properly PvE/PvP. Revs weren’t even top dog back when the skills used to be decent.

Man, I really didn’t miss those balance updates. Truly sad.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > > > Whenever I do meta events, it's not uncommon for me to be the only Rev in the squad.

> > >

> > > I've noticed that too, and most people don't seem to like playing support so I'm spamming all my Kalla and Ventari heals trying to keep 30 people alive on whisper or any other bosses.

> >

> > Revenant is the class with the least players overall it seems, but that is partly because revenants as a class are tied to paid content.

> > Unlike all other professions, you have to buy the expansion to get access to revenant and therefore it is just natural that this class is the least played in general.

>

> That's probably one part of it, but I think it might also be that the class has no 'big deeps' build that doesn't have a ridiculous rotation and is generally underwhelming beyond the utility it brings to groups in PvE. I've also personally met people who just don't like the energy mechanic, but I doubt that contributes to a substantial drop in usage.

>

> Something like Reaper on the other hand can camp shroud with little fear of danger and deal bonkers damage in most PvE content. I think Necromancer is the class I see most by far.

On release Revenants were decent, some modifications were needed and made. Then since people didn’t want to learn how to play against a new class, the cries made ArenaNet over nerf it, changing what it once used to be, slower skills, much less damage, pigeonholed into specific talents/skills.

People either rolled back to their class or gave up on the game.

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> Mesmers.

>

> They have been shafted on every Espec and now shafted on Core weapons too.

>

> Mesmer is the undisputed worst class of the game right now.

I have no sympathy for them being so OP it made me sick to see such stupidity being present and barely touched for years.

They deserve the nerfbat. Then again, Anet are not famous for their balance patches so I lost all hope.

> @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

>

> > @"Sorem.9157" said:

>

> > What does GW2 not have that makes the game diminishing? What do popular games have that Guild Wars 2 doesn't? If you wanna know my opinion, it is PvP incentive. Most popular games of this time revolve around PvP in the format of MOBAs or Battle Royale of some sort. I'm not saying GW2 should be like that, it has it's own different niche and it can be very popular at that. PvP is never the same, doesn't matter how many times you play it, because it is a human versus another human things can always go either way. PvE is not like that and that is why (in my humble opinion) it doesn't make games popular. ArenaNet has neglected PvP for far too long and it is hard to understand why, since PvP in GW1 was clearly the main reason of its success.

> >

>

> I'm going to be honest, the thing GW2 lacks that makes the game "diminishing" as you said, would be resources. Please allow me a brief digression to explain this:

>

> I had a friend that I managed to finally entice to play GW2 for the first time. He was an ex-WoW and ex-Final Fantasy XIV player, and spent most of his playtime on the former. After having played this game for about 100 hours he noted that the **volume** of our content was rather shallow. He enjoyed the quality of it, the writing, and the feel of the game, but using his words "Your expansions just feel so small compared to what I'm used to,".

>

> His experiences with our in-game store were also a source of frustration due to the fact that he was prone to overspending and was aware of the artificial scarcity produced by the marketing structure used. This is referring to the fact that not 100% of the items on the gemstore are available 100% of the time, thus limiting the shopping window to produce a sense of "missing out" on the items for weeks or months until they return. This is where I'm going to bring it back.

>

> Money. The 3rd quarter of 2017 made GW2 a large percentage of its profits for that year. The Path of Fire expansion is what caused that huge bump in profits, obviously. In the months after expansions hit profits go on a steady decline. The only thing left is the gemstore. To me, this is a very weak strategy that hinges on the notion that various cosmetics/quality of life upgrades will be enough to keep profits in whatever ranges NCsoft wants them to be.

>

> I've been a Guild Wars player since the moment I joined the game in 2007. From then on, I have enjoyed over ten years of the studio's games. However, after having witnessed the layoffs with the rest of the community I think it's time I realize something. I know that if offered, I would pay a premium subscription fee for this game. It would **NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE** extremely bare bones in order to not retroactively sting the people who have spent crazy amounts on the gemstore, something like a flat stipend of 1000 gems per month or something similar. Maybe throw in another one of those 1 day celebration boosters at the start of every week, who knows, something! If I'm not mistaken Elder Scrolls Online has something similar after they removed their mandatory subscription fee, and they have some other rewards that go along with having been a subscriber over a longer period of time... But ArenaNet **needs money** more than anything else, and a $10 (U.S.) sub fee - to me - is worth providing if it means I can see more content over the long run.

>

> TL;DR. I am invested enough in this game's success and the enjoyment I get from it that I would pay for a bare-bones sub fee if it meant getting a higher volume of content.

Completely agree with you on this. I would also add that along with the low volume of content poor balance patches are to blame too. Just as an example power rev has been unplayable and rejected in every endgame mode (raid/fractals). It’s been years. The few latest patches only made it worse and we have to pray for the patch not being as bad or worse. Which comes around 3-4 months from now. It’s terrible and was also one of the reasons I left and went back to one of the MMO you mentioned.

They can’t rework the class traits and abilities properly so can you imagine the damage they’d do to hammer skills?

Peeked at the forums to see the latest patch note. Makes me glad I stopped playing because of their clueless balance designs.

GL for you guys having to wait ~3 months with awful changes not changing the current and previous Rev situation accross the board even after the so-called herald revamp. 3 months of wait to be disappointed yet again.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > @"Kam.4092" said:

> > > As a Guardian main, this post greatly irritates me. People look at the Guardian as the best balanced class with its weapons, traits, and skills. Your post comes off as someone being too stubborn to learn their class. What would be the point to all weapons being near equal? Also wanting to use Hammer with Longbow is a bad mix, because both are heavy area control weapons. Which is why they see more play in PvP. All weapons have a use still though, and it’s silly to refuse to Greatsword. Guardians have amazing utilities too. GW2 isn’t a game where you can just choose a weapon, and solely use it. It forces variety, and weapon swapping is probably my favorite part of the whole game. You can play how you want in open world, and not get questioned, but in group content be the best you can be, and don’t cripple the group. Especially in T4 Fractals, and Raids. Its rude to be that one guy that makes runs take longer due to wanting to use inferior setups. You’re playing an MMO sadly with group content that goes way more smoothly when having proper setups. Metas will always be a thing in any game with group content.

> > >

> > > I agree with your optimization comment, and pretty much everything else.

> > >

> > > You can play how you want to in open world :)

> >

> > I find your comment quite rude, especially the “you don’t want to learn your class” part, and incredibly shortsighted.

> >

> > Just so you know, Guild Wars 1 had an amazing gameplay allowing people to play with the skills available to them and make their own build. When I say build I mean it, not the dumbed down version we have in Guild Wars 2 with skills being useless often in every single mode along with much less skills available to choose. See the pigeonholing weapon do. Any good game even back in the day allowed you to tailor your gameplay which GW1 did quite well, same for Path of Exile for reference. Why do you think games like TES are popular besides the world and lore ? It’s because there is truly the sense of “play what you want” without feeling uneffective. This was also GW2 marketing before release saying you could play anything you wanted. Yet another sweet lie.

> >

> > And of course you can play anything in outdoor PvE, even without talents you just zerg and spam 1. But people like to have fun and be challenged which is why we do harder content.

> >

> > Just to give you an example I have played thousands of hours in PvE yet never stepped in raids because I don’t want to play a spec or class I don’t like. Still waiting since years for Anet to make it possible to play power Rev in that mode. So meanwhile I’m in WoW and having way more fun as the classes and specs are so much better balanced compared here where you wait 3 months for a patch just to be disappointed by the weird balance logic with their design.

> >

>

> Yes, GW1 builds were amazing. 95% useless skills, 15-20 useful skills used in any meta. Not counting strait up duplicate skills.

>

> Yes, nobody is unhappy with WoW balance.

>

> While you are correct about some things, you are showing a very strong case of bias and rose tinted glasses, sorry to say.

GW1 had its issues but you can’t deny the fact people could spend hours and hours trying to make the perfect build, 95% useless skills if you have 0 imagination yes. I wonder if you played the game. There was a meta mainly for Hall of Heroes, the rest ? Could play with a decent build without being kicked or refused a spot as long as the build was good.

Never said people are happy with the balance of classes in WoW but overall it’s way better than GW2 and you do have a choice with most specs being useful both in PvP and PvE. Call me when you’ll see that in GW2..

So instead of separating pve and pvp for shackling wave they think adding +40% damage will work ? M’kay

Not sure if it’s real but kinda disappointed tbh

> @"Kam.4092" said:

> As a Guardian main, this post greatly irritates me. People look at the Guardian as the best balanced class with its weapons, traits, and skills. Your post comes off as someone being too stubborn to learn their class. What would be the point to all weapons being near equal? Also wanting to use Hammer with Longbow is a bad mix, because both are heavy area control weapons. Which is why they see more play in PvP. All weapons have a use still though, and it’s silly to refuse to Greatsword. Guardians have amazing utilities too. GW2 isn’t a game where you can just choose a weapon, and solely use it. It forces variety, and weapon swapping is probably my favorite part of the whole game. You can play how you want in open world, and not get questioned, but in group content be the best you can be, and don’t cripple the group. Especially in T4 Fractals, and Raids. Its rude to be that one guy that makes runs take longer due to wanting to use inferior setups. You’re playing an MMO sadly with group content that goes way more smoothly when having proper setups. Metas will always be a thing in any game with group content.

>

> I agree with your optimization comment, and pretty much everything else.

>

> You can play how you want to in open world :)

I find your comment quite rude, especially the “you don’t want to learn your class” part, and incredibly shortsighted.

Just so you know, Guild Wars 1 had an amazing gameplay allowing people to play with the skills available to them and make their own build. When I say build I mean it, not the dumbed down version we have in Guild Wars 2 with skills being useless often in every single mode along with much less skills available to choose. See the pigeonholing weapon do. Any good game even back in the day allowed you to tailor your gameplay which GW1 did quite well, same for Path of Exile for reference. Why do you think games like TES are popular besides the world and lore ? It’s because there is truly the sense of “play what you want” without feeling uneffective. This was also GW2 marketing before release saying you could play anything you wanted. Yet another sweet lie.

And of course you can play anything in outdoor PvE, even without talents you just zerg and spam 1. But people like to have fun and be challenged which is why we do harder content.

Just to give you an example I have played thousands of hours in PvE yet never stepped in raids because I don’t want to play a spec or class I don’t like. Still waiting since years for Anet to make it possible to play power Rev in that mode. So meanwhile I’m in WoW and having way more fun as the classes and specs are so much better balanced compared here where you wait 3 months for a patch just to be disappointed by the weird balance logic with their design.

They nerfed sword 4 cast time because a few plebs with pve spec and zerk gear cried they died in 2 hits against a rev ( meanwhile mirage, thieves and other classes can do worse with much better sustain and consistent damage) they did not even bothered to split the changes for pve and pvp and called it a day, we improved power rev dps ! Their logic is beyond me tbh.

All these bad design decisions made me simply quit the game. It’s just so annoying having to wait 3 months + to get changes only to be disappointed again by unecessary nerfs/bad design decisions.

You are also right about testing and feedback. Players told Anet time and time again but they do not care.

Say what you want about Activision or Blizzard but at least they got PTR and feedback is taken into account during testing.

Hopefully you gonna remove your changes on Rev sword 4 for PvE, you wanted to improve power dps and you made it worse and more boring to play...

> @"nativity.3057" said:

>

> Roaming is even more based on personal preference. You can go Mesmer/Thief/Ranger for optimal roaming, but if you don't have fun, is it really worth playing those classes just because it's the "best" at what it does?

>

Good advice here, when I had to farm for Warbringer (the flamy legendary back piece) it took something like 1.5 month playing every evening and weekends. I did that 95% of the time on my Revenant because it’s my main in PvE. They are decent in zergs and can defend themselves but if you are prompt to get mad play another class as the obvious terrible balance is clear as day when doing pvp/wvw roaming.

Play the way you like or you’ll get bored quick.

Guardian/Rev for zergs

Thief/Mesmer for easy mode roaming

The pvp/wvw in this game itself is braindead tbh. Dunno why people waste their time here.

There is a real strange logic going on with the balance team.

They say Herald is underperforming in PvE:

- buffs a few passives and call it a day

- Listen to crybabies who die in 2shots (Phase Traversal+Shackling Wave+Death Strike) because they come in WvW naked or with zerk gear. Meanwhile thieves, mesmers and spellbreakers still enjoy a low risk high reward gameplay.

- Don’t bother to split SW changes that clearly would impact the rotation and dps in PvE.

I don’t think even Blizzard had this kind of wtf-logic with their patch notes. Even now.

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > Guardians are slow tbh. At least rev gets some teleports and other interesting mechanics. Best thing to do is test both classes in PvP hub and make your own opinion.

> >

> > Apples and oranges.

> >

> >

> > Bonus hint : Rev rocks.

>

> Judge's Intervention and Symbol of Blades say "hi". Plus, that "interesting mechanics" made me laught: looking at the functions in the F skills from both classes and their specs makes very evident which one was hurried to be released with the expansion. The Revenant is "walking identity crisis", because core Rev was never anything at the game, Herald was supposed to be a boon duration buffer (which now barely enhances the duration of boons) and the Renegade lacks value in 2 of the 3 game modes.

I’m talking about skills mechanisms. Not everything is about elite specs.

Everybody and their mamas know Renegade was and still is poorly designed, I wasn’t talking about it. There’s not really an identity crisis since Rev was always designed around Herald, Renegade is bad except in PvE for condi builds. Nobody plays core Rev, but it’s the same for quite a lot of classes if you do high level endgame content. All builds used are combined with Elite specs as they give way too much advantages compared to non elite builds.

Phase Traversal + Deathstrike switch to hammer combo can help to catch up a thief with shortbow or someone quite far away. During all the time I farmed WvW to get Warbringer I have not even once seen a guardian do that. Mostly because using Judge’s intervention takes a utility slot instead of a skill that could have been better in more situations. Also that skill has a 45 sec cd, while PT has 5sec. Hence why I talked about Revenants having a better mobility if you know how to use your skills and manage your resources. Especially in PvP or WvW where the majority use Shiro and swords.

Not even making mention of Impossible Odds which gives superspeed on demand which is amazing while in combat.

> @"Jarid.4952" said:

> Thats my problem, while i enjoy Rev more by a mile, I know that my spec is limited and far less needed in the game modes. I'm scared that if I pick Rev I will get bored someday. While that I just can change from DH to Firebrand sup.

Every class is pigeonholed into taking specific skills and talents, warriors have banners etc. Depends on the game mode but almost everybody take the same stuff and weapons. For open world anything works, could almost do it naked tbh lol.

> @"The Heretic.6415" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > > Pve isn't hard anyway.

> > > > > That’s not the topic. But I’ll just say if you play a MMO only for its PvP and especially gw2, it’s the wrong genre for this.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Wrong. GW2 is perhaps the best MMO for PvP because the fighting system is amongst the best, has no gear power creep, is not P2W and actually the PvP mode provides rewards which are usefull for other game modes (the legendary back piece and the legendary armor are way cheaper and easier to obtain in this than in WvW or PvE). The changes in Shackling Wave are wellcomed: they barely impact PvP (at least in gold) and is mostly a PvE nerf (which I don't care).

> > >

> > > Yes PvP is so amazing the esport scene fell flat on its face despite Anet trying to push for it. The balance is horrible. How long did we have to wait for significant mesmers/thieves nerfs ? Years. The amount of them in pvp and especially in wvw (small scale as zergs are essentially a mess) should be a red flag for any dev team.

> > >

> > > The PvE is the heavy major part of the game, you just need to compare the updates for PvE vs PvP. PvP and WvW are stale and not changing that much. I mean people are still playing the same maps as release with extremely few new ones, the gameplay involves only capture points in sPvP. Not much to say over here. If anything the PvP side is bleeding out of its population as day goes by.

> > >

> > > No, MMO is definitely not the genre for actual decent and skilled PvP (not linked to weapons or your class but how you play and react). I mean seriously, the day Deadeye were born with perma stealth and oneshotting/twoshotting with so little risks for ages is the single proof you need to see how the balance and PvP gameplay is broken. I could go on for eternity but I’ll just stop there. It’s fine if you enjoy it though.

> >

> > yes, but the pve in this game is easy garbage, sure you need to have organised people in a a squad to do pve raids, but the AI is nothing but a set pattern with out the AI doing something else (unlike gw1 AI which is far superior) i know people who do pvp/wvw who are like sitting dog poo when it comes to basic awareness and fighting other players but have 5 legendary armour sets.

> >

> > builds carried people in pve more then it does in player vs player because the ai is not programmed to understand, where as players do. pve in this game is only "Hard" because boss mobs have a ton of health and hit very hard and thats it, why anet push;s this easy mode stuff i don;t know??

>

> It's very obvious you don't or haven't done any seriously hard PvE content in any mmo. The way you describe raids precludes any first hand knowledge.

>

>

> I agree with the guy you're quoting. MMOs aren't the place for balanced PvP. If you want that, play a FPS. Like CS:GO.

>

Indeed, personally my gem is Mordhau. ?

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > Pve isn't hard anyway.

> > That’s not the topic. But I’ll just say if you play a MMO only for its PvP and especially gw2, it’s the wrong genre for this.

> >

>

>

> Wrong. GW2 is perhaps the best MMO for PvP because the fighting system is amongst the best, has no gear power creep, is not P2W and actually the PvP mode provides rewards which are usefull for other game modes (the legendary back piece and the legendary armor are way cheaper and easier to obtain in this than in WvW or PvE). The changes in Shackling Wave are wellcomed: they barely impact PvP (at least in gold) and is mostly a PvE nerf (which I don't care).

Yes PvP is so amazing the esport scene fell flat on its face despite Anet trying to push for it. The balance is horrible. How long did we have to wait for significant mesmers/thieves nerfs ? Years. The amount of them in pvp and especially in wvw (small scale as zergs are essentially a mess) should be a red flag for any dev team.

The PvE is the heavy major part of the game, you just need to compare the updates for PvE vs PvP. PvP and WvW are stale and not changing that much. I mean people are still playing the same maps as release with extremely few new ones, the gameplay involves only capture points in sPvP. Not much to say over here. If anything the PvP side is bleeding out of its population as day goes by.

No, MMO is definitely not the genre for actual decent and skilled PvP (not linked to weapons or your class but how you play and react). I mean seriously, the day Deadeye were born with perma stealth and oneshotting/twoshotting with so little risks for ages is the single proof you need to see how the balance and PvP gameplay is broken. I could go on for eternity but I’ll just stop there. It’s fine if you enjoy it though.

Guardians are slow tbh. At least rev gets some teleports and other interesting mechanics. Best thing to do is test both classes in PvP hub and make your own opinion.

Apples and oranges.

Bonus hint : Rev rocks.

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Sword is perfectly fine and decent for power builds. Nothing reaches Axe builds because it is THE defacto damage weapon. No need to make everything the same.

No but this game fails to give us the freedom of choice just as we had before in the previous game. Or other MMOs for that matter.

> @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> Since they increased the power base on some of it's skills I highly doubt it'll ever be more than a condi hybrid.

Aye... well guess I’ll just wait for the day revenant gets a power GS to use it along with swords. One can only hope.

> @"ButterPeanut.9746" said:

> Sword is meta in pvp but not sure if you were only talking about other game modes.

I was more thinking about its role and what it tries to be. With final thrust which was a signature skill in gw1 and is completely not very useful even for a power build (too long cd for not much damage) and offhand being totally outdated and useless since ages.

Old warrior player since 2012 and Rev since HoT’s release.

I mean honestly, even in GW1 the theme of sword was never only about conditions, same as axe. Both weapons could do both things. Offhand sword being quite bad since the release 2012!

Sword being pigeonholed into condi builds as no one who would go for endgame content would use a hybrid build not excellent in condi and power damage.

I miss my days in GW1.