FtoPScrub.5476

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> guard players big Yikes

"I argue in bad faith and try to misquote cmc to try and prove my bad arguments, then when I get called out I respond with 'guard players big Yikes'"

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > > > > It doesn't need to be .25s but .75 is so stupid when you look at engi rifle 4 or ranger lb 4 which both have .5s cast times.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not only does it have a slow projectile which is easy enough to react to, it's also an AIMED skill. Its already easy enough to counter strafe auto lock projectiles. Avoiding an aimed skill with a .75s cast time and slow projectile is so easy that it literally happens naturally without thought because people never walk in straight predictable paths long enough.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lower cast time, .5s, maybe faster projectile. Very easy fix

> > > > >

> > > > > pbs and overcharged are also single target, they dont destroy projectiles and dont blind

> > > >

> > > > And yet no good player would willingly choose DS over PBS or OS if they had the choice. None of those benefits are relevant when the skill is so hilariously easy to avoid in the first place.

> > >

> > > and if you brink the speed and casttime to pbs/overcharged it will be better version of those skills lol

> >

> > Yeah because back when DS had comparable/~~worst~~ better cast time to Overcharged Shot/Point Blank Shot it was such a huge issue right? Do you remember ALL those people complaining about Deflecting Shot and DH Longbow? /sarcasm

> >

> > DS being manually aimed IS the counter balance. The fact that you can avoid it by counter strafing and not having to waste a dodge IS the counterbalance. None of those things change with my proposals.

> >

> > Also find it hilarious that you're so afraid of DS being potentially better than PBS. It's not like 4/5 or even 5/5 of ranger LB skills are already superior to DH LB skills lol

>

> being strafable didnt stop balance team from nerfing staff ambush, why would they take exceptions to guard? dont answer that, I know why would they do that.

They shouldn't do an exception. Staff nerf is equally stupid.

> DS being manually aimed is an ADVANTAGE not the other way around.

No, it really isn't. It's a necessity because of slow projectile but relative to PBS/OS it is far from an advantage. I shouldn't need to explain how having your targetting decided before the cast versus skills that track throughout the cast is a disadvantage against fluctuating and unpredictable movement, especially when combined with a larger cast time.

> Buffing class with one of the best winrates in the games 4Head, what do you give up for the buff mate?

If you are going to try and cite cmc's comments as proof of DH opness then at least be honest and try to provide context. You are paraphrasing cmc who specifically suggested that winrate is NOT always relevant. He used the example of DH as being proof of this as it has a high winrate but almost universally agreed to be NOT OP. If the only thing you got out of that was "DH OVERPERFORMING" then you are doing some big mental gymnastics bud

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > > It doesn't need to be .25s but .75 is so stupid when you look at engi rifle 4 or ranger lb 4 which both have .5s cast times.

> > > >

> > > > Not only does it have a slow projectile which is easy enough to react to, it's also an AIMED skill. Its already easy enough to counter strafe auto lock projectiles. Avoiding an aimed skill with a .75s cast time and slow projectile is so easy that it literally happens naturally without thought because people never walk in straight predictable paths long enough.

> > > >

> > > > Lower cast time, .5s, maybe faster projectile. Very easy fix

> > >

> > > pbs and overcharged are also single target, they dont destroy projectiles and dont blind

> >

> > And yet no good player would willingly choose DS over PBS or OS if they had the choice. None of those benefits are relevant when the skill is so hilariously easy to avoid in the first place.

>

> and if you brink the speed and casttime to pbs/overcharged it will be better version of those skills lol

Yeah because back when DS had comparable/~~worst~~ better cast time to Overcharged Shot/Point Blank Shot it was such a huge issue right? Do you remember ALL those people complaining about Deflecting Shot and DH Longbow? /sarcasm

DS being manually aimed IS the counter balance. The fact that you can avoid it by counter strafing and not having to waste a dodge IS the counterbalance. None of those things change with my proposals.

Also find it hilarious that you're so afraid of DS being potentially better than PBS. It's not like 4/5 or even 5/5 of ranger LB skills are already superior to DH LB skills lol

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > It doesn't need to be .25s but .75 is so stupid when you look at engi rifle 4 or ranger lb 4 which both have .5s cast times.

> >

> > Not only does it have a slow projectile which is easy enough to react to, it's also an AIMED skill. Its already easy enough to counter strafe auto lock projectiles. Avoiding an aimed skill with a .75s cast time and slow projectile is so easy that it literally happens naturally without thought because people never walk in straight predictable paths long enough.

> >

> > Lower cast time, .5s, maybe faster projectile. Very easy fix

>

> pbs and overcharged are also single target, they dont destroy projectiles and dont blind

And yet no good player would willingly choose DS over PBS or OS if they had the choice. None of those benefits are relevant when the skill is so hilariously easy to avoid in the first place.

It doesn't need to be .25s but .75 is so stupid when you look at engi rifle 4 or ranger lb 4 which both have .5s cast times.

Not only does it have a slow projectile which is easy enough to react to, it's also an AIMED skill. Its already easy enough to counter strafe auto lock projectiles. Avoiding an aimed skill with a .75s cast time and slow projectile is so easy that it literally happens naturally without thought because people never walk in straight predictable paths long enough.

Lower cast time, .5s, maybe faster projectile. Very easy fix

It already had 2 self roots, why increase the cast time of LB3 which is already slow??

2, 5 are self roots

3 is slow as heck now and can't reliably hit without chaining some other cc first

4 is a symbol that is a projectile for some reason(compare to staff 3, scepter 2 symbols which are placed down as soon as the cast completes)

it doesn't matter if you give damage buffs if the weapon is as clunky as it is now. the cast time of 3 needs to be reverted ASAP.

op please use this disgustingly overpowered skill so you can stay down in silver and not be a liability for people who actually know how this game works

Not only is FB overtuned, the 2v2 maps encourage this type of pepega gameplay. Really disappointing imo, because 2v2 could be amazing if FBs/Core Necs/Condi revs were deleted.

Pretty much spot on imo from a guardian perspective. Symbolbrand - both sages and menders is still completely busted, especially in 2v2.

Most DH changes including the nerfs were good but the .75s cast time on the knockback is just unacceptable.

SF2 didnt have custom builds. No swapping out super monkey blast for the next aids skill. No conflicts with PvE design. Far less things to balance. No continuous balance either. Bad characters rarely die in those games because they were never alive to begin with and ofc nobody complains because nobody invests their time into playing a shit character. Not to mention, the fast paced reactionary gameplay styles of those games are highly dependent on very little delay or lag that isnt possible for a game like gw2. CRT TVs are common playing those games because the 10ms delay of modern panels are already deemed too much, let alone having 100ms network delay playing on the west coast.

CG isn't going to be relevant. It relied heavily on initial burst and had little long term sustain. The upcoming patch pretty much guarantees you aren't going to be able to JI pop someone anymore so there's no point in playing core guard.

Would rather take the old version if it means no .75s cast time.

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > Everyone got big damage nerfs, DH actually got off light here. They moved knockback into baseline DS so you can take Big Gamer Hunter. Not to mention, the new damage after virtue might be worth since they increase condi removal from smite while simutaneously nerfing condi application for many other specs.

> >

> > The big nerf you should be concerned about is the trippling of D shot cast time, not damage splits which everyone received.

>

> Well, the 3 main damage sources for DH in sPvP, ToF, TS and DS were nerfed. What do you think is going to happen? Yes, it is hard to predict the meta with all these changes, but my money is on a build that can deal damage.

>

> I find every change about DS to be dumb as kitten The damage of this skill was buffed recently. So what suddenly changed? And slower cast time? This has stupid written all over it.

You're thinking in a vacuum. DH literally got off easy in terms of damage compared to almost everyone else. Seriously, go read some of changes for other specs.

Everyone got big damage nerfs, DH actually got off light here. They moved knockback into baseline DS so you can take Big Gamer Hunter. Not to mention, the new damage after virtue might be worth since they increase condi removal from smite while simutaneously nerfing condi application for many other specs.

The big nerf you should be concerned about is the trippling of D shot cast time, not damage splits which everyone received.

> Deflecting Shot: This skill now knocks back and its animation has been slowed down so the arrow is fired at 740ms (up from 280 ms).

Honestly I think most of the DH changes are good given the context of changes to other specs. I'm very wary of the animation slowdown though. From a competitive perspective, D Shot is already manually aimed and is a fairly slow projectile that is easy to outstrafe past a certain range. Currently it requires a decent amount of movement prediction to be used well. With a 3/4th second cast time it will most definitely feel very clunky and miss a lot more often simply due to the longer cast time paired with slow projectile speed even if the user perfectly aimed it. Granted, this looks to be as a tradeoff for knockback being baseline, but nothing kills a weapon spec faster than making it feel clunky. If a tradeoff is desired, as a longtime DH player I would strongly prefer something like increased cooldown. 12 or 15s up from the current 10, or even a range reduction.

Another thing to consider - DH competitive gameplay is focused on combos off of CCs. With a .75s cast time a lot of these combos are effectively eliminated.

Please reconsider this change. DH LB is already fairly niche. It sees some use because it's actually quite a smooth and fun weapon set to use. Even something like a .5s, up from .25 but down from the suggested .75 would be fine, but .75 is just too slow for the skill type.

Can't wait for everyone to point to unreliable data as unrefutable proof that x class is underpowered/overpowered

Both variants of symbol brand(but especially Menders) are really low IQ degenerate gameplay. I hated seeing spammy uninteractive playstyles on condi mirage and I hate seeing it on my own class as well. Core guard was infinitely better in terms of design and promoting overall healthy gameplay but for some reason was unnecessarily nerfed multiple times(sword 2 nerf, agility sigil, lesser smite condition) while symbols were tremendously buffed through the July 16th Zeal changes for some reason.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbolic_Power

should be reduced from 30% back to 10%.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Truth

should have the blind or weakness removed. For an instant cast, low CD skill with a count, it does way too much.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Writ_of_Persistence is also ridiculous. It's healing effect can stack with multiple symbols, it has a duration increase, and a radius increase. The healing needs to be reduced by 50% or more OR have the stacking effect removed. People seriously underestimate how much healing potential this trait has when paired with healing power.

It's not really that great of a duelist in PvP. It's very strong, meta even, but not because dueling potential.

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> **Stalwart Courage (Courageous Return) is definitely too strong.**

> Talked this one over with Cal and we're going to split the protection duration in PvP/WvW to 1 second. We considered an ICD for this trait, but think it's more interesting without it so we will only add one if this split proves insufficient to balance it.

Can you reconsider this split? At the moment this split heavily favors FB because FB has significant aegis access. With no ICD that means every aegis removed will grant protection, however with DH and Core you don't really have a lot of aegis unless you opt for super niche builds, so the benefit is less than what it would be under an ICD. Given how much stronger FB is than DH/Core in sPvP, wouldn't it be better to opt for the change that has more benefit for the latter two over the former? At 1s its really doesn't have any impact unless you run FB. Something like a 10 or even 15s ICD wouldn't be that different for FB over the current split but would be a nice buff for DH/Core.

In regards to the changes outlined here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91782/upcoming-changes-to-fall-damage-and-revival#latest

Specifically,

> Protective Reviver: This trait no longer increases revival speed and no longer grants boons on a successful revival. Fixed skill fact to show correct 3 second duration. Fixed a bug which prevented the recharge of Lesser Shield of Absorption from being affected by Stalwart Defender. Lesser Shield of Absorption now heals nearby allies when it ends. This trait now causes all versions of Shield of Absorption to revive allies by 15% when it detonates.

15% seems very strong, especially considering you can double bubble for 30% res. Perhaps consider a split here? 5% seems fine in PvP, given you also lose the revive speed.

> Courageous Return: This trait has been reworked and it has been renamed to "Stalwart Courage". It grants the guardian Protection for 3 seconds whenever aegis on the guardian is removed due to blocking an attack.

At first glance this seems like a very promising change to Core Guard and DH, both specs that can probably use it, but it will likely be more useful for Support FB(not symbol FB, since symbol FB doesn't take Valor) who can spam way more consistent aegis than either of these. If there is no ICD on this, it would definitely be too strong, but an ICD of 10/15s would be a very nice change for DH/Core. Perhaps consider compounding it with FB nerfs to even it out there.

> * Photon Wall: Increased cooldown from 35 seconds to 45 seconds in PvP only

> * Heat Therapy: Reduced heal per stack from 65 to 49 (-25%) in PvP only

Absolutely great changes. I was waiting for when Heat Therapy would finally be targeted. The heal on that was absolutely insane for how spammable photon forge is. Photon Wall is also a good change. It was basically a super charged DH F3.

Although the amount of changes are small, I am glad there are actual big boy nerfs and not just 10% shaves. Very promising

Bring back core and DH. Symbol FB is braindead and should be gutted for the sake of bringing some semblance of skill back to guardian.

Have you considered adjusting baseline health pools on an elite spec basis rather than class wide? A lot of issues stem from shared health pools. Like 11k baseline HP on DH = underwhelming, but 11k HP on FB = meta.

Because the original design behind the low hp pool was that Core Guard would be what FB support is today. It might've been true for a little bit in WvW but these days it no longer makes sense to impose 11k hp on Core/DH. Many balancing issues would be solved if they had elite spec specific hp pools rather than class wide.