Aigleborgne.2981

Ele is not garbage because you can't play it.

I have played all professions so I know a bit.

Warrior has passive defense (high armor, high health) while ele is active defense. It means you need a lot of experience to use it properly.

You just can't play ele for 1 month and think it is bad because it needs a lot more. I see ele dying everywhere in OW (mostly vs champions), I would never die myself but I did while learning.

Warrior dies less while learning but with experience, I survive better with ele, with less single target damage but more aoe damage.

Power ele is hard, but it can work. Condi is a lot easier though.

> @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> I remembered alpha with centaurs event in queendale. There were so many centaurs in each wave, it was very challenging and without proper cooperation, it was a death player field.

> ANet got many complaints about difficulty and sadly lowered it. It was a mistake, now most core events are easy, sometimes even NPC alone can complete them...

>

> Event scaling is terrible as previously said. Player scaling is bad too. Too many players get 80 with tomes, do elite rush and complete maps with their OP toon. For new players or others that play the old way, they will have a hard time to get credit or fun.

>

> Mounts also add another issue. Players can move faster than other, and have a special skill. The latter will for example pull 5 mobs away from that new players that was fast enough to place an aoe skill. But the former is just as bad because by the time you can close 1500-2000 range even with swiftness, mobs will be dead.

>

> As an old school player without mounts, I must anticipate a lot to fight my own in events. If I do not, I'll get that bronze medal, silver if lucky.

Please note that reward is not everthing. You could have a lot of fun, even challenge, if alone but nothing will several or many people.

I remembered alpha with centaurs event in queendale. There were so many centaurs in each wave, it was very challenging and without proper cooperation, it was a death player field.

ANet got many complaints about difficulty and sadly lowered it. It was a mistake, now most core events are easy, sometimes even NPC alone can complete them...

Event scaling is terrible as previously said. Player scaling is bad too. Too many players get 80 with tomes, do elite rush and complete maps with their OP toon. For new players or others that play the old way, they will have a hard time to get credit or fun.

Mounts also add another issue. Players can move faster than other, and have a special skill. The latter will for example pull 5 mobs away from that new players that was fast enough to place an aoe skill. But the former is just as bad because by the time you can close 1500-2000 range even with swiftness, mobs will be dead.

As an old school player without mounts, I must anticipate a lot to fight my own in events. If I do not, I'll get that bronze medal, silver if lucky.

Please note that reward is not everthing. You could have a lot of fun, even challenge, if alone but nothing will several or many people. To a point that you feel you didn't contribute to that success.

As others have said, it is beneficial to attune to element according to your trait lines.

If I have air and not fire, I would be in air for axe and greatsword.

If I have water, any conjure can be used for regen.

As a conjure heavy user, I even switch attunement to get several effect during conjuring time.

I would remove 2nd conjure, and lower recharge to 30s, 60s for greatsword.

I have leveled and played a lot with turrets.

They are great at low level and then gradually become weak and unwanted, mostly because no power scaling and no critical.

Around level 20, you quickly destroy a pack when deploying all turrets, it's fun and feels powerful. Around level 40, it's over and frustating.

However, when you need aoe cc, rocket and thumper are great. Plus thumper will act as a decent tank. I even tried net turret to slow down melee elite, it works but it is still overpriced and not worth a slot.

Riffle turret is worth using for its toolbelt but deployed or not, it doesn't make much difference, sadly.

Elite turrets are good though, good defensive skill.

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> ...and how does it compare to majority of other downed skills? Are we still pretending this one deserves to be so much better "just because"? Which one is so much better in this specific scenario? Ranger's LW? Any other?

On my experience with untraited (I mean specific downed traits) downed skills in **PvE**, warrior is the worst.

Guardian has a great symbol that helps a lot and can be traited with several symbol traits. This one has saved my butt countless times.

Ranger skill 3 is definitly one of the best in any mode.

Necro is a powerhouse, all his downed skills are good. He took a hit with skill 5 rework but it was almost cheating before.

Revenant, thief, engi and mesmer have either good synergy with their traits, either decent to great power coef.

Ele is not great, loss of downed lava font AND signet skill 5 kills any hope of rallying when alone. It could be worst than warrior, but skill 2 saved several times (beeing able to reach a safe location)

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> And that's not true for other downed skills? Both "you have to wait" and "you will probably die"? Why are you taking part that's universally true for pretty much all downed skills and then try to make it seem like it's a downside for just one skill of one class?

I give you that point :)

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> So some players spam any skill they can off cd without thinking and that's somehow supposed to speak against the skill? If they can kill a single mob by pressing 1, then just do it like any other class does. If they can't, then get up and now they should be able to.

Yes, but it still shows that you should never use this untraited skill in PvE unless you know that you will kill several things and so get a real chance to rally. Other professions have stronger chance to rally with their 3 skill.

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Does it though? Are you saying you can't finish off a downed opponent when you're still standing as a warrior or am I misunderstanding something here?

I never said it was finishing off a downed opponent ! In fact, I mostly talk about PvE...

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> I already wrote about it in the post you're supposedly answering to. In many cases it still does way more than other downed skills do.

Yes, at the cost of dying after those 15 seconds !

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Yes, that's the point of making choice with traits and in this case this is a "price" for potentially having a downed skill that's just in a tier of its own by nullifying being in a downed state (not that I have much against removing downstate altogether btw ;p).

Really ? You still have to survive the first 20 seconds and in my experience, you often die before. And in the case of soloing a champion in PvE, vengance only works if you can finish off or kill an add, something that do not happen very often.

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Does it though? Are you saying you can't finish off a downed opponent when you're still standing as a warrior or am I misunderstanding something here?

Sure in the case of a downed opponent, it is a different story for standing opponent that just have to kite for 15 seconds. And those seconds feel very short when you know you will die afterward.

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> I already wrote about it in the post you're supposedly answering to. In many cases it still does way more than other downed skills do.

This is exactly my point, it only does more if you trait for it. If not, it is vastly inferior to many of them because you will just gamble for your life. Other skills have less impactfull effects but they might be enough to rally without risking anything.

Vengeance conditions are too high to be valuable. To me, this down skill is only usable if you trait for it. But who would pick a trait that only enhance down state ? Let's replace vengeance by a downed burst skill, that could be enhanced by all burst traits, this would be better !

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> Now if we are talking about a scenario where yu get downed, then yu manage to somehow down the enemy during yur downstate.

> There are a few Professions which straight up "win" downstate battles : And Warrior is one of them.

Only if you traited vengeance! If you did not, you will get the kill and probably die just after...

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > > > No.

> > > > > Too powerful.

> > > > >

> > > > > That would make Discipline even more deep rooted into meta because it will now have too many beneficial passive acting traits that just make Warrior perform better by default.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Well then they need to Axe the downed skill and make it do something else.

> > >

> > > Yeah, because getting up while being downed to freely move around and use your whole skillset is just so bad for the downed skill standards!

> > >

> > > Just axe the downed state altogether and we're k. :no_mouth:

> >

> > Yeah, it really I when all you do is die.

>

> Even if you don't roll into the chance of staying alive, you have a better chance to kill someone (or otherwise contribute to the fight) after using it than you have by staying on the ground and pressing 1. Even if you die afterwards, it still can accomplish more than you can hope for with many other downed skills.

>

> If you think differently, then I'd like to understand exactly *why* without some backhanded "and then you die so w/e" answer. You also die while staying on the ground and dashing/stunning/whatever once. The difference is that when you get up, then depending on your active skill/weaponset you can do it much more frequently while having an option to actively move/react to what is happening. I fail to see how that's not strong when compared to other downed skills. Making it a guaranteed rez after a kill with no setbacks is simply putting it multiple tiers above anything else in that category.

You have to wait quite some time before being able to use vengeance. In PvP, you will probably die before.

Without trait, it is generally a death sentence in PvE, and I see warriors dying of vengeance every days, whereas they could have survived by just auto attacking or wait for revive (if anyone around).

Compare this one to other professions, it looses to most of them. Personally I never use it, especially considering I usually get downed to champions or strong veterans so 25% is hopeless as I will probably get one kill at best.

Even in PvP, its value is not great as you will most likely die just after. You might down someone, but he can still be revived.

With traits, it is obviously better but it forces you to trait to have a good down skill.

I would rather remove all downed traits, and increase vengeance to 75-100% in PvE and 50% in PvP

> @"WindBlade.8749" said:

> Stormsoul is what make the ele good in Fractals, without it, you can say goodbye to ele in CMs, so no.... ele already got deleted from wvw, don't delete it from another gamemode, if you want to delete an usless trait, inscription and lighting rod are here for you.

Lightning rod is good for some builds, and is my favorite choice most of the times. Don't touch it ?

Almost 6 months to get a patch that is almost half content of previous ones, and almost nothing regarding pve. What a joke...

The worst thing is lack of communication to this subject.

It is very bad to see 6 months without any proper balance patch when 3 months was already too much. All this without any word or road map on that matter.

Just a small news like "due to covid crisis, our next balance patch is delayed to december. We are planning those changes...". While it is still bad to wait that long, it is understandable and we get a schedule.

Current situation is so bad that it seems System Teams has disappeared...

> @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:

> Your numbers appear to be off by 10% (unless you’re accounting for some unknown food/sigil/rune/trait/signet), full asc zerker *only just* breaks 50% crit chance. Similarly, full sins *only just* breaks 70% and it cannot reach 100% w/ fury alone.

My bad, I had Signet of Fury when I took those numbers, it is exactly +9% Critical Hit.

> @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:

> - a mob with only enough hp to eat maybe 2-3 of your crits before it already dies. Or a boss with a 5s vulnerability window. Each % of crit chance you don’t have is % chance that you might have to spend longer than the mathematical difference between raw power vs crit chance, because when you don’t crit in these critical moments, you lose *a lot* more than just some small theoretical dmg increase (unless you play some otherworldly multihit spec that negates RNG because the sample size of hits/crits is massively inflated).

It was my thinking but you explained it a lot better than me. I was playing my berserker with zerk gear the other day and I was hitting several normal hits with Arc Divider. Damage was low, and I got critical hits after my rage expires, obviously too late.

Be absolutely sure that all your hits will be critical negates any random bad luck that might get you killed. Plus, it also assures you that everything based on critical hit will trigger everytime.

Achieving max precision with only attributes makes room for runes, sigil, and food. Those can bring important effects for solo situation that would be sorely missing with zerker gear. The moment you start to put out assassin pieces, you will be forced to pick replacements in rune/sigil/food.

Maybe, it is best to find some balance here. I think all this really depends on your profession and build.

Very interesting replies ? although lots of maths to digest.

Now, you sold me berserker stats (or marauder) but you miss one very important point: critical hit effects.

Critical hits can trigger traits, sigil, and food. Some have ICD, but not all of them.

Let's take my berserker example. Critical will give might and adrenaline. You can then take MMR to benefit from might. More adrenaline is very good by itself as you can burst more or faster.

I could go on with CH sigils and food. On top of that, CH burst skills can also do more vulnerability, so more damage.

In this end, berserker might do more raw damage, but less secondary effects if you stay at 50-60% CH. When those effects are might and vulnerability, I'm not sure it still wins in damage. And even if it does, you will still loose other bonuses.

I often ask myself what gear is the best when playing solo.

Most people advice for berserker or marauder gear.

For many professions, critical hits provide additionnal numerous bonuses or are simply necessary to success.

As an example, Berserker specialization get might on critical, and furious can get you some adrenaline. Plus, you absolutely want to critical when using your burst skills.

Rounded numbers:

Berserker: 60%, 80% with fury

Marauder: 70%, 90% with fury

Assassin: 80%, 100% with fury

Granted you can improve those numbers with sigils, runes, and food, but it will add strong constraints to the build.

Assuming you can have perma fury, Assassin seems the best as you can have perma critical hits.

Marauder is not far behind, but still, 10% counts and you would need Sigil of Accuracy at least. Leaving you at 3% less than Assassin, not bad but locking down one sigil for both weapons set.

Berserker seems really low and I can't see how it can perform nicely, even with food, sigil, and rune help. And even if you could manage a good number, it would probably shut down any food/sigil/rune choice. And those are particularly important in solo situations.

Berserker/Marauder higher power is meaningless if you don't make critical hits when needed.

Conclusion: I think Assassin is the best if you want to freely choose sigil, rune, and food. Marauder comes second, it will definitly lock down some choices.

Finally, Berserker seems to be only good for group situation when others will bring your critical to the max.

Consider yourself in a lucky position with success on the 9th times.

It took me about 45mn with wiki, video, and a mesmer help. I think I was close to 20 tries.

This was my most frustrating gw2 experience! (especially after raging for 2 hours in that JP, those final steps with moving wheels are extremely difficult)

As previously said, turrets should scale with stats. It make sense in every aspects.

I'm currently leveling a new engineer and turrets are great at low levels because of low player power/critical. When I put all 3 turrets, I can do great damage along with control. It stops after overcharge but it is good enough.

It will obviously fade with levels but it should not.

ANet can't render turrets useless because of one game mode, which is the least played of all.

Maybe turrets should have half health in pvp to counter their offense?

It is rarely used in every game mode.

Most of the time, you will get better sustain from Arcane Armor or even Lightning Flash.

It is most likely not gonna change because it is a known fact and hasn't change a tiny in 8 years.

> @"lLobo.7960" said:

> > @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > Did you try your build on strong core champions like Fire Shaman in Iron Marches? This one does very powerful melee and ranged attacks, including eviscerate. I haven't seen anybody able to solo it, although I think it can be done. Now with ele and more specifically your build?

>

> Just did _ugh... wont let me post images:

> Starting the first part of the fight. Easy fight with dagger/warhorn:

> [imgur](https://imgur.com/MywDLqr)

> On the first phase change I had to go back into the healing bubble as the elementals kept pushing me around. So I swaped to scepter focus. Run around quick, gather them and bring them to the healing bubble and burn them with signet and overload.

> [imgur](https://imgur.com/Cvc6nTb)

> Then the other 2 phases I just kited with scepter, sometimes braking his bar with air and water cc to come closer for overload.

> [imgur](https://imgur.com/eeW8WPC)

>

>

>

>

Impressive, I'll give it a try ?. I couldn't with power build (downed in 1 or 2 hits...).

You talk about soloing champions but then you said "dragons-tooth for extra might combos to amaze everyone around". There will be nobody around.

Did you try your build on strong core champions like Fire Shaman in Iron Marches? This one does very powerful melee and ranged attacks, including eviscerate. I haven't seen anybody able to solo it, although I think it can be done. Now with ele and more specifically your build?

Scepter is severly lacking defense, you will need those 2 main dagger evades to fight any strong hitting champions, right?

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> My thought was because if you effectively have perma shroud as described. Then you can only really benefit from signets, and having the Flesh golem as the elite, as it still stays alive.

Yes, you are right. I don't really need Lich at this point. However, it still have its use. Sometimes, you need space when low on health / shroud. It happens when you took a very strong hit or cc lockdown.

When it happens, I use my weapons first (GS 4, dagger 2...), then Lich, Lich 3 first (fear), then 5 and 4. All minions from 4 give me some room while 5 is good to heal. Casting terror first allow me to cast it a 2nd time, benefiting again from Dread and Fear of death.

Globally, I think it gives me a similar burst as reaper shroud but from range. Some champions are really nasty at close range, like Fire Shaman in Iron Marches.

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Personally never was a fan of Soul Barbs flashing, not terribly easy to keep track of the buff.

> I asume you picked flesh golem as the elite?

I picked lich, it is very effective with Fear of Death and dread. And I highly dislike necro minions anyway.

I'm experimenting Reaper with Dread and Fear of Death. Along with Signets of Suffering and many signets.

I'm rather impressed by the result. I can stay in shroud for very long times (almost perma). New Dread is exceptional for spamming Infusing Terror and Terrify.

I was able to solo a list of champions. As long as I have adds to kill, the more powerful I am. Every death gives LF and recharge a bit shroud 3, which become usable very quickly, giving defense and more LF.

> @"choon.6308" said:

> There you go, using Shiro or dwarf in Herald results in garbage dps.

What??!

For power builds, you have to choose between shiro and jalis. For condi, it is mallyx.

So if you say shiro and jalis are bad with glint, you are playing condi herald, which doesn't have great dps to begin with.