Jalal.6783

I was actually not looking forward to opening this thread because I was expecting the typical and uneducated response of get good noob but am pleasantly surprised with the overwhelming agreement and actually intelligent responses.

> @"Badwolf.9725" said:

> First, I'm not against invis in many pvp games, mostly games like Dota and LoL, but only because they are well thought out and properly balanced.

>

> Let's begin by looking at Dota, the game I'm most familiar with. Another 5v5 arena where killing the enemy is a side objective, much like GW2's. Let's look at Riki, a hero that, last I played at least, gets an innate passive that allows for nearly 100% invis time (Bounty Hunter is another good example too). That sounds like a rather OP set of abilities, yet it is nearly garbage except against players who refuse to counter it. Any player can go buy sentry wards, to place true sight areas for a set time. Any player can go buy dust to create a huge aoe that reveals invis units. Any player can go buy a gem of true sight to reveal everything in a smaller aoe around them.

>

> In addition to this, there are certain units that innately counter invisibility. Slardar has an ability that can reliably punish, for a rather extended time, invisibility. Bloodseeker has a passive that reveals all units below a certain hp. The necronomicon, another item anyone can buy, has units that can provide truesight.

>

> In contrast to all of these counters... GW2 has a very limited number of skills on a limited number of professions on a limited number of builds that provide any real "counter" to invisibility. Even then, they allow the invis character in question to generally use their invisibility and only punish once the unit is allowed to engage.

>

> I'm mostly concerned about the thief that can attain near perfect invisibility. There is no actual counterplay to it, aside from "wait". Enemy ranged units allow me to use terrain to close a gap, enemey melee likewise, invisibility though? Not so much. Invis simply does not work when it is allowed to so freely work. Unless I bring one of a small set of classes with one of a small set of builds, there is really very little that allows me to counter invisibility, especially since there is no limitation on ranged versus melee use. In Dota 2, most heroes with a reliable, long term access to invis are all melee. Clinkz, the only exception here, requires the user to balance offense with eating creeps, somewhat balancing the invis access with the additional cost of extra time and resource management. Outside of that, all other invis skills are relatively high cost, high cool down and low duration (Mirana's ult for example).

>

> There is no real "cost" to invis here though. It's easy access, little counter (with even littler chance of actually seeing said counter) and potentially a long duration. Additionally, it allows for people to go full glass cannon with the ability to effectively one shot most builds and then instantly teleport/invis away.

>

> What I get frustrated by in sPvP, more than anything else, is seeing perma invis snipers with TONS of access to mobility and having no reliable way to counter them except hoping they are bad. To me, there is just absolutely NO fun in playing against a thief that uses perma invis (much less the games with 2 of them) unlike Dota2 where I actually enjoy the counterplay against a character like Broodmother who can easily snowball out of control due to the access to invis. Most games I see an invis thief... I just kinda sigh and wait for it to end. I still try, but I don't really have any fun, just waiting for the moment the enemy decides to end me and vanish.

>

> Overall, invis, in its' current form, has no real place in sPvP. It's not properly countered and is, at best, a huge troll to normal, non-hardcore pvpers like myself. There is no cost to it, there is no counter to it, there is nothing but waiting. I can cleanse conditions, I can heal HP, I can break stuns and evade attacks... I can't counter invis, I just wait and hope I see it in time to dodge.

>

>

>

> Also, PLEASE stop with the scourge pixel vomit! I feel like half the problem of dealing with a scourge is just seeing anything in all the giant red circles of gfy... Seriously, GW2's artwork is second to no other MMO, but scourge just vomits on it...

One of the most well thought out explanations as to why stealth is this game is ridiculous. 100% agree. Excellent work and wow. I might save this. You sir need to be on the balance team but you'd probably never get hired because if they hired people with real insight like this, they would never have even half the issues present in pvp

It never has worked

Read the title, cut this sht out. It's boring to play against, and frustrating to deal with a stealth deadeye the whole game opening up with immob from stealth so you cant see and cant move into being 1 shot.

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > It was never a ltp or get gud issue. People who use that are little kids who think they are good becuase they play a broken build. If you here high rank(plat and up) players say this is broken. Then it is broken. I have even seen players that are well known to be 1 of the better player complain about the balance of the game/ power creep. If you say to them get gut you are really.... yeah sure mate. hellsith even made a post about the game is not balanced that should say enough.

>

> Right and plenty of Plat+ players have said mesmers are broke, SB is broken, and DE is broken. So we should nerf everyone huh.

Actually they are all broken so ya. Would be a good start

Ya, elusive mind and balance cannot be said in the same sentence

> @"Lexan.5930" said:

> title says it all. Between mesmers, elementalist and engineers there is no counterplay to invulnerability. You either have to waste all your dodges on a shatter mes burst only to be blinded or stunned when trying to stun them to only have them go invulnerable and thier short shatter cooldown kill you before you can get to them.

>

> Being killed by an elle who is invulnerable during their burst is not fun, theres no counter to it. For warriors who have evade frames and blocks and movement ability there is counterplay between other classes. I dont like how much defensive capability warriors have with stun breaks and evade frames on weapon skills but least there is a little bit of some play around thier skills.

>

> remove invulnerability from sPvP and reduce all damage done by 20%. Then burst classes can still burst but can;t be invulnerable during someone else counter burst of sorts

Only invulns that should be in the game are invulns where you cannot do anything like guardian invuln. Not this mesmer kitten stuff where they invuln AND cast spells

Balance. Just balance.

Another mesmer main QQing about being op for every season. Go next

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"Jalal.6783" said:

> > > > @"Zietlogik.6208" said:

> > > > https://i.imgur.com/oVUw7Tc.png

> > > >

> > > > Special Note: 2 of the players from the double duo queue team were also Rank 1 players from previous seasons (God of PvP Title)

> > >

> > > They're known duo q players. Have to inflate the ego and elo. This is way it's a really bad idea to even allow duo q in high ranked. There is a reason it was taken away. Keep it that way

> >

> > so if those 2 players didnt team up, you would be in that spot?

> >

> >

>

> I think you're the only one through all these posts that actually could have answered yes after seeing you in the 8th spot but then again there's nothing stopping you from duo'ing and gaining that edge too...

>

> I'm just some scrub that accepts losing to players better than myself though wether they duo or not.... Only time I got annoyed with duo was way back at the start of seasons when I got knocked into Silver by Vallun / Naru duo... But I was more frustrated at the match making if anything... Almost killed Naru a few times, but everytime I got him low or about to win that kitten Vallun would show up lmao

yes yes yes and yes. I have been in this situations so many more times than I have ever been outplayed by them. That's what's so frustrating because you're being punished for playing correctly JUST because they are duo. We know 100% that would never happen unless they are and no one wants to deal with playing correctly but because of some outside factor they have no control over, they are punished for the correct action.

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > "Duo que is only hated by a very vocal minority. Those who enjoy duo que aren't on the forums, they are busy enjoying the game."

> > >

> > > Ecks dee

> >

> > Someone surely hasn't been paying attention.

> > Those who play duo queue have played the minimum number of games to occupy top position.

> > Queue times are worse than at this stage last season.

> > Majority (over 50% in most polls run by duo queue lovers) of the playerbase was opposed to the idea of duo queue.

> >

> > Who are you trying to fool, other than yourself?

>

> 

>

> "MiNImUm nUmBeR oF GaMEs"

damn, number 8 looking hella sexy

> @"Chilli.2976" said:

> This season has an average q time of about 5/6min during my prime - where as last season it was 1/3min and insta pops.

> I assume this is due to duoq combined with class prevention stacking combined with no incentive to go for a high rank combined with more people leaving the pvp scene.

> Duoq has not made people play more games, people are still playing the minimum and camping rating LUL and the reward for that is your name on the LB for 2 weeks and 1 LARGE potion LUL.

>

> I suggest bring back titles or make new ones, keep duoq but prevent duoqing past 1700 or something.

> If your good enough to reach 1700+ soloqing during the last 10 or so seasons then preventing duoqing past 1700 shouldn't be a problem - not that many people reach 1700 anyway.

> And if people want to match manipulate the system then give out harsher punishments not a slap on the wrist.

> Feel free to add any suggestion to make it better or at least point in the right direction for once..

>

Agreed 100% except get rid of duoq all together. Cheapens the experience by allows players to undeserved matches reaching underserved elo and robbing the enemy team of a good experience Sick of waiting 5+ mins to face a top 10 duo q who have no right to be there other than they are duo q and can carry each other. It was gone for a reason. Don't bring back dead content

It's always has and always will be the same answer. Balance the kitten game

> @"Leafstorm.1349" said:

> Firstly, I'll just say this isn't really a rage post. Obviously this will get pushback from people who like to play Deadeye as would anything that needs a rework on any class that people like to play. However, deaths judgement needs a serious rework or just to be taken out of PvP all together. That sounds like an opinion however, not only are there many people who would agree with me, quite a few of them play in the upper/top tiers of what this game has to offer for SPvP.

>

>

> The real question is why? Why add something like an ICD (45s maybe?) or remove the skill? The main problem persist due to either you or your teammates being opened up on for 13-15k initial shot, then 3.5k double taps instantly after from _stealth. This either instantly downs a teammate or makes them/you blow every cooldown to keep alive which drastically puts the fight in the other team's favor. It actually wouldn't be as bad, but all the deadeye has to do is simply dodge to regain stealth, then hit for another 15k and some double taps. WHO thought this was an amazing idea? The access to stealth that deadeye has makes it almost impossible for it to die if they have any clue what they're doing.

>

> There are quite a few classes in the game that have access to amazing burst, but these have a longer cooldown and take setup for it to work. Power Mantra Mesmers can one shot things from stealth, but they must set their burst up again while in combat to do it again if it doesn't work which really doesn't work most of the time. Rangers have amazing burst with worldly impact and what not, but again, this has a ICD and they end up in mele range. Core Guardian also has great burst... nothing that can really hit for 15k unbuffed, but still good. However, once a core guard blows all their CDs, they are easy targets if they don't kite. So why can deadeye simply dodge to regain a 15k hit? Why is it they can double tap after for 3.5k in less than 5 seconds from considerable range? Why is it they have so much stealth? Other classes take precision and timing to burst something down. They need to watch for other class mechanics such as heals and blocks, but all a deadeye really has to do is dodge again.

>

> Please tell me... what have they done to deserve the 20k+ dmg burst in less than five seconds besides buy PoF? Why do they deserve that dmg? They literally do nothing but dodge or gain stealth through one click of a utility trait.

>

> Time to fire whoever made deadeye a thing and didn't test it in SPvP. Why wouldn't you have given them a sword for offhand instead? What a joke.

> @"Ryan.9387" said:

> Regardless of balance, deadeye deserves no place in pvp. It is never be fun to play against and honestly should just receive the https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter%27s_Boon_(PvP) treatment.

Yes yes yes and yes. Exactly everything said here. I wish I had something useful to add put damn, you guys hit it 100%

> @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> Engies to much shrunk

> wars to much endure pain

>

Thieves too much half hp evade passive. Just when you pin down those kittens, they get out of jail free.

> @"Zietlogik.6208" said:

> https://i.imgur.com/oVUw7Tc.png

>

> Special Note: 2 of the players from the double duo queue team were also Rank 1 players from previous seasons (God of PvP Title)

They're known duo q players. Have to inflate the ego and elo. This is why it's a really bad idea to even allow duo q in high ranked. There is a reason it was taken away. Keep it that way

> @"Zietlogik.6208" said:

> The issue is that you aren't matched properly with duo queue AGAINST duo queue, it just throws them in like " !$@# it who cares! have fun!" and end up with a match where the quos don't have a ton of fun with no challenge, and the other team literally wants to quit the game because the experience is so abysmal...

>

> I just had this gem earlier: https://i.imgur.com/oVUw7Tc.png

And that is the exact sht i'm talking about. It's an absolute clown fiesta and all due to duo q's. why should 2 top 10 players be allowed to vs another team that has players outside of the top 100? makes absolutely no sense and they can cc burst you from stealth b4 you even realize what's happening. Seems like most of the players abusing duo q are the ones roflstomping people to over-inflate their ego and elo. people with upwards of 70 and even 80% winrates sitting in the top 10 positions, all from duo q. Not a single person made legendary until the very very end of the seasons when there was no duo q and that was maybe 1 to 3 people. It's being used how it has always been used in ranked, to give yourself a ridiculous advantage to the point where the enemy team hates their life. Unacceptable

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > @"Poelala.2830" said:

> > > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > Zollec is Rev. The other guy is not rev.

> > > >

> > > > Rev was nerfed since s12.

> > >

> > > Helio played revenant in over 80% of his games in season 12. Rev was buffed this most recent patch.

> >

> > I have **NEVER** seen this name on Rev, and I spent s12 top 50 all season until like last 3 days brah. Let's talk **facts**

> >

> > Have you ever played Rev? This patch was a major nerf.

>

> You've never heard of Helio? He got #1 last season and is occupying 3/5 top 5 spots atm lol

And he q's at offtimes and duo q's.

> @"Egorum.9506" said:

>

>

> Such a skilless noob for dying to that

Nah bro. That's ridiculous. By the time you realized what happened, you pressed plague signet but had died already. Even if you pressed shroud, you still would have been stunned, had no way to reach him because your're melee obvious, your shroud would have been gone just as fast and then in the next round of stealth and burst you'd be dead. If you used fleshworm you might have been able to escape but all that aside, serious? you walk to a point, and die in less than a second while being stunned. I don't think so.

I agree with you 100%. It creates a almost uncounterable playstyle where they are free to do as they want and you are left wondering for sometimes upwards of 30 seconds when they well come back, open up on you and 1 shot you. It's getting ridiculous and takes the skill out of counterplay unless you have reveal which not everyone has and deadeyes can even circumvent that due to traiting.

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"Egorum.9506" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > @"Egorum.9506" said:

> > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > Bro you know PvP have certain elite that can kill you with only 3 skills may be 4 if you see them coming no one cares not even ANET that why they keep buffing them

> > > > >

> > > > > If somebody solo killed you in 3-4 skills then you don't know how to use your kit properly. There's no other way to put it, that's a possibility until you learn how to use your defenses, then retaliate.

> > > > >

> > > > > > i mean do anyone even bother himself to learn how to counter certain elites with all the passive healing and all that damage modifiers and the condi vomit

> > > > >

> > > > > You're right, certainly easier to not bother to learn how to counter certain elites and then just blame the design and ArenaNet

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I mean, deadeye can legit nuke someone in <1s. From stealth, mark, binding shadow, dj, 3rb until they respawn

> > >

> > > According to chaith you don't know how to use your kit properly.

> >

> > I have a video of this exact phenomenon!

> >

> >

> > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > Learn 2 play

> >

> > I'm such a kitten noob.

> >

> > seriously though, that's with a demolisher ammy on. what i should have done is hit plague signet in the .2s between getting knocked down and downed, then dodged behind the wall on the side and somehow kited away from him while he's in stealth

> >

>

> My original comment was geared more towards the revenant and guardian complaints

>

> About the video, horrible positioning, of course you'll get picked off 1v1 on a side node on a GS reaper. You shouldn't be in that situation to begin with especially if you're aware there's a glass signet thief around.

>

>

No really, what could you have done vs that? balanced

Let's give this thread more attention. Fix the bug anet please or at least give us some clarity on how it works

Since the beginning of this season, I have noticed a horrifying trend. Everyone I look I see dead people. No seriously though, the amount of burst, teleport and cc flying around is absolutely mind boggling. Many times, after a mid fight, The enemy team turns into a big roaming deathball that kills everyone and anything it sees in 2 seconds by teleporting, cc and proceeding to wreck face. Feels like i'm spending alot of the game avoiding the enemy because as soon as I see one, many are very soon to follow from stealth, 1200 meter range teleport into instant cc and burst. At mid, many times, the first one up is the first one to get gibbed and once you lose one, the fight quickly turns for the worst and you better tuck your tail and run or else you'll be next. Pretty much, the best way I found to win is wait for someone on the enemy team to overextend, pounce on them and them proceed to roll the others. If the opposite happens and one of your guys get caught, get the heck out of dodge. Everyone is so burst and cc is so heavy that there is little chance to and reason to play anything else.

High ranking plat games are way too steamrolly when there is a duo q on the enemy team. They usually play 2 cc heavy, high damage burst, and mobility classes such as holo thief and absolutely wreck everything and are everywhere at once. It was a good try arenanet but now the quality of games is absolutely down the gutter when there is a duo q. The rare times the games aren't lost from the first mid fight, it is still the duo q is smashing and one shotting people all game so regardless of the win, it's not fun and no one enjoys being on the receiving end of that just so 2 players can enjoy the game and ruin it for the other 5. Ruins the solo q experience.

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Yes, we have already discussed in the necro forum that this trait could cause an endless loop with blighter's boon.

>

> The simple solution would be that every skill and trait does only proc one might per usage. If the logic behind this is too difficult to program, then they should simply add an ICD to fix it, but remove that "only once per weapon-swap / combat" nonsense.

Agreed 100%. The tooltip is clear but the way is functions is not. Clarify how it functions