Zenix.6198

From what I've gathered from my personal social bubble, opinions towards 2v2 and 3v3 have been very mixed when directly compared to conquest.

While I also have my personal preferences, opinions and reasoning, I'd like to get a broader picture on the general community stance?

What do you prefer? And why?

Bumping, cause still relevant.

The 23% sevenshot nerf was nice.

Decap scrapper and symbol guard - thankfully - getting deleted is also much appreciated.

Holo "nerfs" were... "Meh" at best.

Holo overall lost 6 mightstacks, which is nice I guess, but not even remotely good enough.

The thief stealth duration nerf seems okay.

For a "hotfix" patch, those changes are acceptable. Unfortunately powerlevels between different classes are still majorly fked tho, so while those changes are welcome, it's a far cry from "fixing the game mode". We need a dedicated balance patch at this point and not some band-aids.

Actual quality post. 10/10, would lol again.

Im pretty sure picking a damage-oriented traitline over SA is against ToS.

Shit's broken, do something...

~Everybody

> @"kratan.4619" said:

> There would be no more diversity than now, three or four meta builds will still be the rule and anyone trying a different build will be at the same disadvantage as now. Bad idea

If the "meta"-argument is the extend of your reasoning, than why bother having more than 4-5 classes with more than 4 traitlines each to begin with. And while we are at it, we can also get rid of 75% of the still existing amulets and runes.

Just to clarify for the skeptics ( @"Grimjack.8130" , @"Tycura.1982" ):

Maybe I didnt point this out in my OP clearly enough, but the pool of choose-able prefixes would only include those, which already are in PvP.

So no Cleric, Minstrel, Viper, Trailblazer or anything similarly broken. It would simply allow to mix and match between the ~15 (?) amulets we currently have in PvP.

So any Expertise/Concentration Setup would already be impossible.

This is also the Reason why I prefer a 40/30/30 allocation split over lets say a 50/25/25 or a 25/25/25/25 one, since that would prevent you from equal Power/condi or equal Vitality/Toughness splits....Which means any build would always have to slightly focus towards one type of dmg application/mitigation and therefor not be universally good in every situation but also have weaknesses. Maybe another allocation split would enforce this even more tho. Like a 40/35/25 one.

"Problematic" combinations in the past have always involved High defensive stats coupled with Healing power. But with most of the 900-defensive stat amulets gone, I'm uncertain if its possible to concoct a truly "problematic" combination....but that could obviously be prone to personal bias.

So let me share some of the combinations I could see as definitely being strong....with special focus on Toughness/Vit/Healing combos via the 40/30/30 allocation split.

**1) a Mender/Sage mix for hybrid-dmg Healers**

40% Mender: 400 Power, 400 Healing, 200 Prec, 200 Vit

30% Sage: 300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Vit, 150 Healing

30%Sage: 300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Vit, 150 Healing

Total (=3000) 1000 Power, 700 Healing, 600 Condi, 500 vit, 200 Prec

**2) a Mender/Paladin (=unnerfed) mix for a Cleric-esq power duelist**

40% Mender: 400 Power, 400 Healing, 200 Prec, 200 Vit

30% Pala: 300 Power, 300 Prec, 150 Vit, 150 Toughness

30% Pala: 300 Power, 300 Prec, 150 Vit, 150 Toughness

Total (=3000) 1000 Power, 800 Prec, 500 Vit, 400 Healing, 300 Toughness

**3) a Sage/Rabid Mix for a combination of all 3 problem stats**

40% Rabid: 480 Condi, 360 Tougness, 360 Prec

30% Sage: 300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Healing, 150 Vit

30% Sage: 300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Healing, 150 Vit

Total (=3000) 1080 Condi, 600 Power, 360 Toughness, 360 Prec, 300 Healing, 300 Vit

Like while I could see all 3 of those working for certain classes/specs, I dont think any of them looks particularly broken, if we take currently existing defensive amulets for reference. Like Cele with its 1380 Defense-total (460 in Vit/Toughness/Healing).

But again....could just be personal bias talking, so Im open to being convinced otherwise.

> @"DinesenDK.5067" said:

> > @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > With the removal of more and more "problematic" Amulets, I think the "amulet"-system for pvp is in dire need of an overhaul.

> > Im not saying, that it necessarily failed, but the ever-shrinking pool of choices is alarming. Personally I am all for customization and being able to tailor gear to your build rather than the other way around. Interestingly enough, Anet has (at least in the context of my concept) already set the groundwork for it by equalizing the stat total of 3- and 4-stat amulet, and by removing most of the high toughness and vitality amulets.

> >

> > Anyway, here is my Idea for a new Stat-system:

> >

> > (First off, its important to point out, that we DO NOT get rid of the amulet system we currently have, but rather expand on it! )

> > As of right now any amulet (par paladin and celestial) gives a total of 3000 statpoints.

> >

> > Currently however, the players can only pick predetermined combinations of stats with no room for customization.

> > The solution to that would simply be to add more "Equipment slots" while keeping the maximum of the 3000 stattotal (again, par celestial).

> > Players would be able to mix and match all available stat-prefixes (i.e. "berserker", "carrion", "mender", "sage" etc.etc.) as they see fit, while NOT being able to get more than a total of 3000 statpoint throughout all gear-slots.

> > This would obviously mean, that each slot would have reduced stats and only offer a percentage of the 3k stat total.

> >

> > While you theoretically could go ham with how many slots you implement, Personally I think 3 seems reasonable. As for their stat-weighting, Id suggest the following:

> > Trinket-Slot: 40% of the 3000 stattotal

> > Armor-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotal

> > Weapon-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotal

> >

> > Now you can freely mix and match 3- or even 4-stat stat-prefixes while being capped at the 3k stattotal.

> >

> > A few Examples:

> >

> > 1. Zerker with mixed minimal Defenses

> >

> > Trinket (40%) : Zerker (480 Power, 360 Precision, 360 Ferocity)

> > Armor (30%) : Demolisher (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Toughness, 150 Ferocity)

> > Weapon (30%) : Marauder (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Ferocity)

> > Total (3000) : 1080 Power, 960 Precision, 660 Ferocity, 150 Vitality, 150 Toughness)

> >

> > 2. Hybrid DPS with Sustain

> >

> > Trinket (40%) : Marshal (400 Power, 400 Healing, 200 Condi, 200 Precision)

> > Armor (30%) : Sage (300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Vitality, 150 Healing)

> > Weapon (30%) : Swashbuckler (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Condi)

> > Total (3000) : 1000 Power, 650 Condi, 550 Healing, 500 Precision, 300 Vitality

> >

> > 3. The Condi "Tank" (for the skeptics)

> >

> > Trinket (40%) : Carrion (480 Condi, 360 Vitality, 360 Power)

> > Armor (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)

> > Weapon (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)

> > Total (3000) : 1200 Condi, 540 Toughness, 540, Precision 360 Vitality, 360 Power)

> >

> > Personally none of these combinations look too out-of-whack in my opinion (even the 3rd one), but obviously I might have overlooked something, so please feel free to point out any broken combinations you may find.

> > But ye, basically its literally just adding more slot-options. The ones above are just one example from the top of my head (you could also go with 3 slots (50% +25% +25%) or 4 slots (25% each) or whatnot). And if in doubt, you can still slap the same stat-prefix in each of those slots and basically keep using the current combinations.

>

> Very nice suggestion. Love the diversity it brings. With that said, there must be a maximum to each stat, so you can't put like 3000 points in condi damage. What that limit should be, or if it should be the same for each stat, I don't know.

That wouldnt be possible anyway.

It's not like you could allocate the 3k stat total completely freely.

Its still bound by the maximum of the highest prefix-stat you use (maximum 1200, since thats the highest single stat you can get from current 3-stat amulets).

Like the maximum you can get into one stat cant exceed the the highest stat of any single stat prefix currently available.

Edit:

Like if you equip zerker or carrion respectively into each of those 3 equipmentslots: You'd just have the current zerker or carrion stat combination.

With the removal of more and more "problematic" Amulets, I think the "amulet"-system for pvp is in dire need of an overhaul.

Im not saying, that it necessarily failed, but the ever-shrinking pool of choices is alarming. Personally I am all for customization and being able to tailor gear to your build rather than the other way around. Interestingly enough, Anet has (at least in the context of my concept) already set the groundwork for it by equalizing the stat total of 3- and 4-stat amulet, and by removing most of the high toughness and vitality amulets.

Anyway, here is my Idea for a new Stat-system:

(First off, its important to point out, that we DO NOT get rid of the amulet system we currently have, but rather expand on it! )

As of right now any amulet (par paladin and celestial) gives a total of 3000 statpoints.

Currently however, the players can only pick predetermined combinations of stats with no room for customization.

The solution to that would simply be to add more "Equipment slots" while keeping the maximum of the 3000 stattotal (again, par celestial).

Players would be able to mix and match all available stat-prefixes (i.e. "berserker", "carrion", "mender", "sage" etc.etc.) as they see fit, while NOT being able to get more than a total of 3000 statpoint throughout all gear-slots.

This would obviously mean, that each slot would have reduced stats and only offer a percentage of the 3k stat total.

While you theoretically could go ham with how many slots you implement, Personally I think 3 seems reasonable. As for their stat-weighting, Id suggest the following:

Trinket-Slot: 40% of the 3000 stattotal

Armor-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotal

Weapon-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotal

Now you can freely mix and match 3- or even 4-stat stat-prefixes while being capped at the 3k stattotal.

A few Examples:

1. Zerker with mixed minimal Defenses

Trinket (40%) : Zerker (480 Power, 360 Precision, 360 Ferocity)

Armor (30%) : Demolisher (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Toughness, 150 Ferocity)

Weapon (30%) : Marauder (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Ferocity)

Total (3000) : 1080 Power, 960 Precision, 660 Ferocity, 150 Vitality, 150 Toughness)

2. Hybrid DPS with Sustain

Trinket (40%) : Marshal (400 Power, 400 Healing, 200 Condi, 200 Precision)

Armor (30%) : Sage (300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Vitality, 150 Healing)

Weapon (30%) : Swashbuckler (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Condi)

Total (3000) : 1000 Power, 650 Condi, 550 Healing, 500 Precision, 300 Vitality

3. The Condi "Tank" (for the skeptics)

Trinket (40%) : Carrion (480 Condi, 360 Vitality, 360 Power)

Armor (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)

Weapon (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)

Total (3000) : 1200 Condi, 540 Toughness, 540, Precision 360 Vitality, 360 Power)

Personally none of these combinations look too out-of-whack in my opinion (even the 3rd one), but obviously I might have overlooked something, so please feel free to point out any broken combinations you may find.

But ye, basically its literally just adding more slot-options. The ones above are just one example from the top of my head (you could also go with 3 slots (50% +25% +25%) or 4 slots (25% each) or whatnot). And if in doubt, you can still slap the same stat-prefix in each of those slots and basically keep using the current combinations.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > 5. **And then all of the Mirage mains spotted** will sit in anticipation to read those patch notes, only to be greatly disappointed when they notice that the class was ignored entirely.

> > Should we call DEGENERANGER main spotted about yor and other delusional folks defending it?

>

> No, because we were already tagged with "The Ranger Police", which is a lot funnier.

>

> Sort of like "Mirage Main Spotted" which was hilarious.

>

> Now if we could just get names for all of the other class mains, this would be a lot more fun than it already is.

>

>

>

Personally I like "The Eleminati", with their hidden pro-ele agenda :)

Ye, Its a system in place to prevent rating gain/loss exploitation, since a team doesn't lose rating for a loss if one of their members DC'd for more than 90 (?) seconds.

Without this system people would just disconnect from a game when things looked sour to prevent rating loss for their team and themselves.

Eles at PoF start?

You and I have quite different experiences.

I think a lot of new players are suffering through a similar experience.

Though - and especially for necro - it mostly comes down to good positioning.

Try to avoid running arms-open into the entire enemy team....cause then exactly that will happen.

And since, as you correctly pointed out, necro has "limited" defenses and suffers especially at the start of the match due to not yet built up LF, it is even easier to punish a out-of-position necro.

Just some pointers (instead of the usual "git gud"-comment this forum has devolved into):

- Do NOT run into the entire enemy team if it can be helped

- Place your wurm before a fight; preferably on a location the enemy team can't easily follow you if they start focusing you (behind LoS, ON TOP of ledges etc.etc.)

- Despite popular believe, "FIghT oN NoDe!!!111!!" is not the optimal strategy if said node is covered in a bazillion AoEs

- Which means, that it is absolutely okay to step off a node if it prevents you from dying

- It is okay to disengage fights you are outnumbered on (like when you lost 1-2 players in a teamfight already....just try to leave, or meet a similar fate)

- Prioritize winning a fight over capping a node if said fight is in your general vicinity (otherwise you will be the one left to do deal with the enemies after your team died)

Obviously, as a disclaimer: Im a terribly biased Weaver player so take everything I say with a grain of salt (and remember to "REEEEEEE" at any weaver player you see in a match).

> @"pninak.1069" said:

> yea IH and chronophantasma were never the problems to begin with. most dmg from IH comes from staff/scepter ambushes. and people tend ignore the elephant int he room. why do you let the mesmer run lose and run into its mirrors if you got cc skills to prevent that?

What?

First, saying that abmushes are an issue but IH isn't, doesn't make any sense at all.

And now that mirage is far more dependent on their shatters again, it all miraculously isn't oppressive any more.

IH very much was the issue and would stay a dead trait forever if it was up to me.

Shatter-playstyle is way more skillful than any of that IH-spamfest ever was and good mesmers can still pull it off.

> @"Revolution.5409" said:

> I would say that there is no "best class" in general, but ...

Except rev.

Rev does everything.

With people claiming Rev and Thief to be "weak" ....one can't help but wonder what side-effects a quarantine has on the human psyche....

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"Kondor.2904" said:

> > You win 1v1 90% of the time while not knowing how to kite. Wait, that's illegal >_<

>

> I spam all my necro wells on the node + the elite corruption skill thing and win 90% of the time.

> Not many classes can stand in the node with all my wells pulsing.

Good....so your opponents also don't know how to kite.

All is good after all.

Condi Toughness Healing... You mean settler?

If so, your protest is about 4 years late.

Been playing around with my condi-renegade setup after the patch and realized that the bonus "condition duration" doesnt show up in the stat screen of the hero panel (like when you hover over your "condition duration"-stat.

Is this simply an oversight / tooltip error, or does this mean, that your condies can overcap; similar to how you can actually get 120% burnduration on your F1 skills on FB when you pick up the "Legendary Lore" trait?

I cross-referenced these with my own numbers, and they are exactly the same.

Coincidence? I think not!

I dont think Rally itself is problematic.

If anything it adds another layer of complexity that challenges the players decision making when there is 2 downstates.

What I personally dislike, is insta-rezz skills like Signet of Undeath / Mercy, Illusion of Life or Glyph of Renewal.

Those are simply annoying and devalue good-positioning or general awareness (since mistakes in those departments are "less fatal" so to speak).

An argument can also be made for rezz-speed increases....but those at least can be tuned via numbers.

So the Deathmatch meta look similar to what the WvW Zerg-meta looks like?

Who would have guessed.

Not all, certain ones are pretty useful already (like waterfield or smokefield blasts/leaps).

Others could see some buffs.

Kinda agree.

While I dont think hard CCs should do a lot of dmg, it comes down to proportions in the end.

Like, is it really fair for Point Blank Shot (Ranger LB#4) to be as rewarding as lets say Banish (Guardian Hammer#4)?

Where the first one has 1.2k ranger and 0.5s cast time.

While the latter has 130 range (so basically a tenth) and 1.0s cast time (basically double).