N A T E.3108

> @"xWiroo.3841" said:

> Seriously guys, leave this game, arenanet doesnt give a kitten since pvp gives them no money. Theres not even new raids or fractal content, just empty promises.

Thanks for the valuable input.

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> There are a couple of aspects about holo that aren't well designed:

>

> 1. Obviously grenade kit has too much front-loaded damage. A plain nerf to the damage coefficients is needed. Furthermore grenade barrage should get a unique, distinguishable animation.

> 2. Holo stacks might too readily. Enhanced capacity storage unit is the biggest offender.

> 3. The reworked explosives trait line is a little problematic. The damage coefficient on explosive entrance is overtuned, it shouldn't proc on any attack but **only on the first explosion skill** you use - so that skill + explosive entrance can be dodged. The blind duration on flash bang should be 1 second.

Please read the OP... The point of this whole discussion was to point out that core and scrapper do not over-perform like Holo with the same traits. Nerfs to core skills and traits nerf all Engi specs, not just Holo; therefore, nerfs like that need to be done with the balance of the non-Holo specs in mind as well. So a universal "NERF EXPLOSIVE ENTRANCE" or "NERF GRENADE KIT" shouldn't be a part of the discussion unless core and scrapper are over-performing with those as well (which they are not).

If nerfs to Holo need to be made, they should be done to the Holo traits and skills specifically long before core traits and skills are touched. So, in light of this, here is a brief analysis of your proposed changes:

1: this is not a good idea. This nerfs all of Engi even though Holosmith is the only over-performing Engi spec.

2: If Holo needs a nerf to damage (which I don't necessarily think it does) this is a fair option. As many have mentioned throughout this post, Holo benefits from a lot of damage modifiers that make its skills hit a lot harder- effectively making skills OP that otherwise are not when used by scrapper or core.

3: Again, the damage from Explosive Entrance is relative to the spec playing it. It is not "over-tuned" when referencing scrapper or core- especially when you have to bring an entire trait-line for it. Making it hit only once would be a bad choice- why would anyone take an entire trait-line for one chance on an opening strike? Regarding Flashbang in particular, we can debate about it. Personally, I don't see it over-performing that strongly. It is a good skill, but again, ask yourself, is it oppressive on core or scrapper when considering the rest of the meta? If it is, I haven't seen it.

Long story short, play Holo, play scrapper, play core, and then make up your opinion on what is op. Universally OP skills are, of course, fine to nerf (i.e. rampage) but that is not the case here. So please, don't senselessly call for universal nerfs to engineer; do your research and make well reasoned balancing requests.

Well, they lowered grenade kit damage in the last patch for all engi specs. Not the best decision because holo, with all of it's damage modifiers and sustain, is still somewhat oppressive with it... BUT, they did buff core and scrapper a bit so I can't complain too bad. It's a step in the right direction at least. Let's hope they make good decisions moving forward.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > >

> > > > Explosive entrance is still far too strong and STILL can crit while no other trait like this can.

> > >

> > > That is a false statement.

> > > Reckless Impact -> warrior deals damage after dodging, this attack is even unblockable and able to crit

> > > Flame Blast and Shock Wave -> both skills get activated through the trait Evasive Arcana while being attuned to fire or earth, both can crit

> > > Mark of Evasion -> leaves a mark of blood on the ground after dodging, it can crit

> > > etc.

> > >

> > >

> > Found the issue here https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Explosive_Entrance_(trait_skill) it has PVE scaling of 332 (1.25) and these have 133(0,5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shock_Wave_(trait_skill) , https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reckless_Impact, this one is a hoot though https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Mark_of_Blood#WvW.2CPvP lol 40(0,1). Also tested Reckless dodge if you stack all the multipliers you can get 2k, tried with the PVP build on holo got 3500, the base damage starts at 771.

> >

>

> Yeah, they should nerf the power scaling of explosive entrance in PvP, if anything.

> But it doesn't need to become unable to crit.

/)_- I think you two miss the point of this entire discussion.

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> My issues with Holo and Scrapper are that they pretty much never seem to have any defensive of offensive downtime, and half of its skills look the same and are often heavily obscured while having some very high-impact effects, even if it isn't just raw damage.

>

> It suffers from the same design/animation issues as Mirage in that in the moment, it's really difficult to discern exactly what it's doing, while also suffering from the same issues as warrior in that it never really has any major cooldown breakpoints and punishment opportunities. Except it's also just objectively stronger than both at virtually everything.

I don't think it's quite fair to lump scrapper in there with Holosmith. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, scrapper is under-performing by a fairly large margin in spvp... and regarding your statement about skill visibility and identification... I think you may need to play the class in order to comment on this accurately. While it is true that grenades can at times be relatively difficult to distinguish, the rest of the build is easy to identify. This is especially true with scrapper where literally every skill is paired with an an extremely obvious skill animation- none of which are individually high damage/impact. Holo does have more usable access to a few low-animation/high impact skills with rifle, such as blunderbuss (though using rifle isn't really meta these days), and, on occasion, static discharge with Particle Accelerator... Otherwise, holo-specific skills all are very flashy and identifiable. Literally big flashing lights and a full-character model make-over into a flashy light humanoid. You could make this case for grenades, but otherwise, I really don't feel that this is the right critique for holo or scrapper. Scrapper needs buffs to be viable- plain and simple. Holo needs a couple damage nerfs in relation to it's abuse of grenades and explosive entrance, possibly paired with a slight sustain nerf (as was addressed in my previous posts). If you take some time to play the classes, you'll easily be able to spot the skills that are being utilized. With holo, the rotation is so predictable and visually obvious that you can honestly avoid most of the damage- this is only not the case in the current meta because of their ability to abuse grenade kit.

Complete side note: even with the balance changes that are coming next week, I think the topic of this discussion is still entirely relevant. This balance update doesn’t really do too much for the game and, in the grand scheme of things, likely is just a precursor to larger changes. This means that this topic is still something that needs to be addressed because balance still is going to suck and build diversity is still going to be trash.

For those of you who are calling for direct nerfs to Explosive Entrance (EE) and Grenade Kit, this was the point of the entire post. Core and Scrapper are not really even "viable" options when you consider the current meta, even though they both have access to Grenade Kit and EE. Therefore, when you have a balancing decision to make that will effect an entire class, but you only consider the effects this change will have exclusively for one elite spec (while disregarding the balancing effects it has on the rest of the class), then you have effectively beat the dead horse. This is a balancing mistake.

This is why I proposed the 15% explosion effectiveness reduction trade-off for Holosmith. This would effectively cut 15% of the damage from Grenade Kit and EE for Holosmith without also continuing to nerf core and Scrapper into oblivion.

Arguments can be made for nerfs to skills that are oppressive across the board (i.e. what happened to Rampage) but I don't think EE or Grenade Kit fall into that category quite yet. To prove that they do, you need to show me prolific and oppressive Core Engis and Scrappers that are dominating spvp. This is, of course, something you wont find. Therefore, the nerfs need to occur to Holosmith exclusively.

**DON'T BEAT THE DEAD HORSE**

In this discussion I have offered multiple ways to do that with relatively small changes to Holo. I would think anyone could see the value in Anet adopting a balancing philosophy like this where applicable. Of course you can offer other solutions, like added cd times and whatnot, but personally, I feel that the changes I have presented in the op address the issue more effectively. I mean shoot- if they were to institute a 15% explosive reduction, shave 5% off of lasers edge, cut the might generation by 50% on Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit, and shave some vulnerability from Corona Burst... do you realize how much less damage Holo would do? That might even be too much damage reduction. I personally think just the 15% would do a lot.

With my luck, instead of taking a balancing approach like I have presented here, they will just continue to nerf engineer/scrap to the ground in order to balance Holosmith. /)_-

ALIEN

The voices have been heard I'm sure: some form of "NERF HOLOSMITH!!!" appears in nearly every spvp discussion on the forums and on Reddit. When considering the current top tier, I personally don't see the spec over-performing that strongly, but I imagine that nerfs are coming along regardless. The high focus points are obviously it's current sustain and damage combination- damage complaints likely hovering around Explosive Entrance and Grenade Kit, and sustain complaints on Flashbang and other core sustain features from the core lines/utilities. With that in mind...

**MY REQUEST: Please consider how your nerfs will will affect Core Engineer and Scrapper!**

**POINTS OF CONSIDERATION**

1. Core and Scrapper are both under-performing in the spvp scene, even with these traits and skills that are seen as "op" for Holo. Please don't just continue to nerf Engineer as a whole in order to balance Holosmith.

2. The changes required to balance Holo can be addressed at the Holosmith level.

**Proposed Changes:**

Again, I don't find Holosmith to be all that oppressive, so these solutions are base-level ideas and can of course be adjusted and developed further.

**4 Easy Damage Nerfs**

1. Due to the power of Photon Forge and a Holosmith's reliance on it, it's only logical to assume that the Engineers that equip it would have less room for more conventional engineer equipment. Therefore, I propose a small trade-off for the Holosmith spec: "The explosives you carry are 15% smaller". This would essentially translate to a 15% reduction in overall effectiveness for all explosion skills. This includes effect and condition durations. Corona Burst may have to be exempt from these effects.

2. Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit: this is a great trait to work off of to tone down overall Holo damage. It could have some might stacks shaved from it (1 stack/s vs 2/s) or the damage bonuses on sword skills could be reduced (15% vs 20%).

3. Laser's Edge: Reduce maximum damage bonus to 10%

4. Corona Burst: maybe some of the vulnerability stacks could be shaved.

**3 Easy Sustain Nerfs**

1. Flashbang: I don't find this trait to be that oppressive. if you were to institute the 15% effectiveness nerf from damage nerf #1, I think that would be more than enough to tone down the oppressive nature of this skill. If you must, reduce some of Holosmith's easy access to vigor.

2. Heat Therapy, while it has been toned down recently, is still a pretty strong sustain benefit. If you must nerf Holosmith's sustain, I would focus on a rework here before nerfing any more core traits/skills. Maybe it could offer 2-3 points of healing power (maybe more) for each unit of heat accumulated. This would create an effect that has to be actively utilized for benefit.

3. You can always tie a slight armor reduction to Photon Forge in some way. "You take 10% more damage while under the effects of Photon Forge". This would give it a similar play-style to GW1 Frenzy.

I am not proposing that all of these nerfs happen (though I think, even if they did, Holo could still compete) but I am proposing that you nerf the correct areas of the class before affecting engineer as a whole. Arguments can be made for whether or not grenade kit is oppressive across the board, but I think the point still stands strong that apart from Holo, core and scrapper are in pretty rough spots for spvp, even with grenades and traits like Explosive Entrance. For those who complain about Flamethrower... who knows- maybe firearms could be reworked to include a version of Juggernaut that has slightly less stab, but that is something for another discussion.

Hope these ideas are useful.

ALIEN

Hey Sly, I have mained scrapper for several years now, and core engi before that. I live almost exclusively in the pvp scene, so if you would like to "training" so to speak, message me in game. I can at least show you what I have found to be effective for high-tier pvp.

P.S. I personally prefer either demolisher or berserker stats. ( Demo + Scholar runes or Berserk + Fighter runes).

ALIEN

Generally speaking, I think scrapper is a pretty rough go in pvp. You *can* make it work, but in my experience, it takes a lot more work and it’s virtually useless unless you focus on dps & cc (though learning these combos and rotations can be time consuming). Tanky scrappers, for example, are pretty pointless when compared to other bunkers because they do no damage, have very little party support, and die in 1v2 pretty quickly. They can be very easy to CC and nearly one shot if you know when to do it- which honestly makes it useless in my opinion. I have found some usability in zerk/demo explosives scrapper but I will warn you that If you plan to do this, you will have to put a lot more work in to be just as (or even slightly less) effective as other dps specs. The damage just really isn’t there on hammer, so if you wish to deal decent damage, I would recommend toolkit (for the damage from prybar) or grenade kit. With nades, you get pretty nice damage (though this might be nerfed soon due to holo’s usage of it as well) and can make easier to use if you use snap to target in options (though this doesn’t come without its drawbacks). Also, if you roll scrap, use hammer. It is better for the class than rifle, p/s, or p/p. I love the class to death because it allows me to play with a core-engi style rotation, but it definitely isn’t in an incredible place right now. Trash isn’t the word, but it might as well be if you don’t wish to put a lot of practice into the class to be even remotely effective.

ALIEN

For those of us that don’t only play the meta, we often run into the issue of getting caught in the nerfs that are meant to balance the oppressive builds. I main engi, so I’ll use Holo as an example: just recently, to cut back on holo’s sustain, healing turret was given a 50% longer cd. In this situation, core engi was not over-performing due to this skill and it heavily relied on it for what little sustain it has. Core already was in an unplayably bad position before this nerf and yet it got caught in it anyway just as badly if not worse than holo. Effectively creating a “beating a dead horse” scenario.

So, the philosophy I am proposing can be simply stated as follows: make changes to the over-performing spec first and the core specs last. There are a few examples where core versions of a class may perform better than the elite versions, so this philosophy won’t be perfect in every situation, but generally speaking, oppressive builds are due to something added to the class in an elite spec. Whether that be a combination of old skills/traits with the new ones or just an outright oppressive new trait/skill specific to the elite spec itself - either way, the issue needs to be addressed at the elite level long before the core level. This can be done by adding trade offs and nerfing the added sustain and damage additions from the elite spec. To use holo again as an example (not that I think it is over-performing by that much right now), if anet wanted to nerf it’s sustain, that can easily be done by further reducing the effectiveness of heat therapy (or reworking it), nerfing holo utilities, or adding another trade-off to the class. Let’s say that prot holo is seen as too oppressively tanky sometime down the line- instead of further nerfing alchemy or core defensive skills to the ground, maybe they add a trade-off to the minor adept (the one that enables photon forge) that makes prot 50% less effective- therefore limiting the effect to holo exclusively. This might be extreme, but the point still stands: most sustain and damage nerfs can be made at the elite spec level without also nerfing the rest of the (often underperforming) class. Obviously, if a skill is oppressive across the board (i.e Rampage), it needs to be dealt with accordingly, but I think a philosophy like this would do wonders for build diversity and overall game balance.

Just my two cents.

A L I E N

So, I would petition that any “nerfs” made to holo would be done specifically to holo traits and skills. If you nerf explosives, you also nerf core engi and scrap pretty badly, and neither of those classes are over-performing even in the the slightest. In fact they both honestly could use buffs just to be viable in this meta. I don’t currently think that holo is on the “overperforming” side of things by much- but sure, they might could use some slight nerfs to damage and sustain. Here’s a simple example (not that I am proposing it) of how to issue a nerf at the holo level without also nerfing core/scrap as well: have holo’s minor adept (which gives them access to forge) contain a trade off that states something like “your explosions deal 20% less damage”. This would prevent the “beating a dead horse” effect that many underperforming specs have to deal with as Anet tries to tone down over-performing elite specs. Obviously, if a core skill/trait is being oppressive across the board, sure, nerf it- but with a balancing mentality that focuses on adjusting at the elite-spec level first, and core level last, I think Anet’s balancing initiatives would be a lot more effective at actually achieving balance.

Scrapper’s hammer #2 skill WILL NOT reflect ANYTHING while in the mists free for all arena. Please fix this- I (and others) have been reporting this bug for literally years.

Thank you!

SCRAPPER: I think** the healing turret nerf is overkill directed at nerfing Holo**. It is getting nerfed worse than any other heal pretty much. On the other side of this, **you all are really forcing Scrapper to only be viable by taking the inventions line AND alchemy lines**. Please reconsider this. Allow scrapper to be traited for more than tank- because **you frankly haven't given it the ability to be a tank in pvp**, Tank scrapper, regardless of how you look at it, is not at all viable right now: It does little to no damage with virtually non-existent party support, and it is easily forced off point by any damage-focused class or CC (and it’s easily killed 1v2, especially with so little access to stab/stunbreaks). It isn’t capable of effectively filling the tank role in the way ele and guard can. Heck, Holo can tank better and heal more! After this next patch, scrappers will be completely forced into bringing both the alchemy and inventions traitlines just to survive. **Scrapper has no alternative method of healing** outside of the heal skill (because impact savant is a joke until you are hitting 3+people/second with aoe)... so, with the f5 med pack drop gone from the last balance patches, to deal with condi and any damage all, we now are going to be forced into always bringing bulwark gyro (waste of space) along with the terrible medic gyro (to try and utilize anti corrosion plating). If you slot ANY OTHER TRAITLINE you will have to bring purge gyro (supreme waste of space) just to deal with condi- and that, of course, will be in the place of a necessary stunbreak or utility. **For a melee class that is supposed to be mid-range damage + tanky, these changes will make it the equivalent of a thief minus the damage, mobility, and stealth.** Scrapper is not exactly tanky in terms of handling damage... How is this supposed to compete with a war or rev... or anything for that matter.

> @"hotte in space.2158" said:

> > @"N A T E.3108" said:

> > So, scrapper has been on the extreme low side of effectiveness for a while... and it's obviously getting hit very hard in this update (along with everything else).... **I think the healing turret nerf is overkill** directed at nerfing Holo. It is getting nerfed worse than any other heal pretty much. On the other side of this, **you all are really forcing scrapper to only be viable by taking the inventions line AND alchemy lines**. Please reconsider this. **Allow scrapper to be traited for more than tank- because you frankly haven't given it the ability to be a tank in pvp**, and this update is just beating a dead horse in that respect.

>

> Scrapper is considered to be weak. But I know there are at least two of them in Platin2. One is tanky but the other one plays a cheesy build doing even good dmg.

> These guys are definetely experianced scrapper-specialists and it might take time to find out how to play scrapper strong, but its possible.

I understand that it’s possible to do some damage currently with scrapper. I main a berserk/demo damage scrapper and have played into legend on it a couple times in the past on similar builds... my argument is not so much at the current state of scrapper (even though it is currently “underpowered” in terms of the class performance-to-skill ratio) but instead what the state of scrapper will be after this patch. Tank scrapper, regardless of how you look at it, is not at all viable right now in the current meta. It does little to no damage with virtually non-existent party support, and it is easily forced off point by any damage-focused class or CC (and it’s easily killed 1v2, especially with so little access to stab/stunbreaks). It isn’t capable of effectively filling the tank role in the way ele and guard can. Heck, Holo can tank better and heal more! After this next patch, they will have effectively forced all scrappers into bringing both the alchemy and inventions traitlines just to survive. Scrapper has no alternative method of healing outside of the heal skill (because impact savant is a joke until you are hitting 3+people/second with aoe)... so, without f5 med pack drop, to deal with condi and any damage all, we now are going to be forced into always bringing bulwark gyro (waste of space) along with the retarded medic gyro (to try and utilize anti corrosion plating). If you slot ANY OTHER TRAITLINE you will have to bring purge gyro (supreme waste of space) just to deal with condi- and that, of course, will be in the place of a necessary stunbreak or utility. For a melee class that is supposed to be mid-range damage + tanky, these changes will make it the equivalent of a thief minus the damage, mobility, and stealth. Scrapper is not exactly tanky in terms of handling damage... How is this supposed to compete with a war or rev... or anything for that matter.

So, scrapper has been on the extreme low side of effectiveness for a while... and it's obviously getting hit very hard in this update (along with everything else).... **I think the healing turret nerf is overkill** directed at nerfing Holo. It is getting nerfed worse than any other heal pretty much. On the other side of this, **you all are really forcing scrapper to only be viable by taking the inventions line AND alchemy lines**. Please reconsider this. **Allow scrapper to be traited for more than tank- because you frankly haven't given it the ability to be a tank in pvp**, and this update is just beating a dead horse in that respect.

Hey Everyone,

I have been reporting this bug now for a couple of years now without a fix. The scrapper's #2 hammer skill, electro whirl, will not reflect while in the FFA/Mists Lobby arena. This is a pretty annoying issue considering how core of a utility it is when used in-game. Please fix this bug- it would be a huge quality-of-life upgrade to those of us who pvp, because currently, we are at quite the disadvantage vs heavy ranged attacks (i.e. deadeye, soul beast, holo, dh, pp [though rare] etc...).................. this is especially annoying for those of us who play glassier versions of scrapper...

Thanks...

ALIEN

Please devs... I have been reporting this for two years. Please fix this.

Thanks,

ALIEN

Scrapper Hammer #2 electro whirl will not reflect or even absorb anything while in the lobby Free for all arena. I have been reporting this bug for over a year in-game. Maybe this will get more attention. Please fix this- it's very annoying.

I can second this. I have been reporting this bug for a year and a half..

So the main reason for this post is to hopefully get anet's attention about a bug for scrap: Hammer #2 (Electro Whirl) will not reflect anything within the Free-for-All Arena in HotM. I have been reporting this bug for a year now and no changes have been made... please, for just some minor quality of life, can we have that fixed?

Secondly, I am a major fan of Tool Kit; however, magnet has been extremely buggy recently, causing the pull to fail about 30% of the time. Generally it will visually pull the target to you, but the target will rubber band back to its original location without reason before you can hit it. Its just a sad waste of time.

Third, as I know you all are aware, scrapper is an all but dead class. I am currently (from what I've seen) the only successful scrapper in pvp- and that isn't an exaggeration. Scrapper has really only received nerfs since path of fire launched, and in the few areas where there have been improvements have actually been better for holosmith than scrapper. Scrapper specifically needs some help. It was a dead class even before pof launched, pof launched and it still was even more dead, since then, it has been nerfed multiple times (prot injection, condi removal from elixers, longer cd on traited elixer s, less stun duration, etc) and is still a dead class. We need something- not a lot, just something to bring scrapper specifically up to par with every other class in game. I have a few ideas how if you all are curious but until then...

Thanks,

A L I E N / S P U D

P.S> Turrets and Utility Gyros are all but useless and might as well be removed from the game (Sneak gyro isn't as bad.. its just not the best).

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"N A T E.3108" said:

> > Please don't take these criticisms personally. I am merely stating that scrapper still isn't in a good place.

>

> Scrapper is better than you think right now. Very capable of carrying and being a huge obstacle. In my week straight of playing it, I found myself very addicted to its power. I did not die to power classes due to easily converting vuln to prot, and had no problem navigating the in-flux of Soulbeasts and Mesmers.

>

I main scrapper and have for years: I understand that as a class, there are ways to use it to be effective, but other classes just are given so much more than scrapper. We have been repeatedly nerfed every balance update and given nothing in return for the nerfs.

I think you must be playing on some very low-tier pvp to feel that those builds you posted are viable. Esp, with you taking the quickness trait over adaptive armor (hammer scrap doesn't even really benefit from quickness apart from a faster heal cast). The only thing scrap has going for it, is that it is SO FAR out of the meta, that no one knows how to fight against it... but that is only really true with noobs.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> I have two Scrappers.

>

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoCFpidpCubBEqil7jieVb1aVEhTUAsJA-jJxHABiv/gyPAAAuAA0XGAA

> ( Alchemy mid-mid-mid )

>

> This is a very, very tenacious survivor, revive utility, and condition remover of allies. Seems like the strongest build Scrapper has to offer.

>

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlUUhqrY9VwALQ7FLDGl47UChA9nn5h+XAsetHA-jJROABnfBAAY/hifAAwUGAA

>

> This one is a teamfighting powerhouse that hard counters low ranked players whose whole team humps the mid point, mortar is the cornerstone here with the occasional 10k Electro-Whirl in self-defense.

I'm afraid that neither of these builds is very viable in this meta... the first build is fine vs condi classes; however, you have next to no damage, very little healing, and I guarantee that you could not win, or even tank, against power-based classes. You would pop very quickly. PLUS, apart from rezzing and the occasional support condi removal, you are useless to your team.

The second build is definitely not viable. You might be able to get a big electro whirl in every once in a while, but in any decent level of pvp, that build will be severely ineffective. I play zerk engi from time to time, and the slight bit more dps isn't worth the squishiness. This is especially true with your rendition, considering that you do not have adaptive armor traited or a stun break beyond elixer S. It may be a fun build to land on someone occasionally, but other classes do it much better, and aren't consistently one-shotted as a result.

Please don't take these criticisms personally. I am merely stating that scrapper still isn't in a good place.

Here are the issues with scrapper: with condition removals pulled from elixirs, it doesn't have condition removal capabilities while still doing damage; you can trait for condi removal with inventions and Medic Gyro, but at the same time, you are being forced to bring alchemy as well for survivability (without it, you are dead in one-spike from a power class) therefore preventing even semi-good dps from the other traitlines. Some might say that you should just bring the condition conversion elixir or the clear gyro, but in so doing, you replace a heavily needed stun break, leaving you dead in the water without Elixer S on recharge. In addition to this, they removed any good-source of protection (beyond condition conversion in alchemy) therefore making us severely crippled vs power spikes (the protection-injection nerf was severely uncalled for). Damage-wise, even when traited for damage, we don't do much; we have low-mobility, and limited resources beyond spamming acid bomb on point (which is a good option) but in most scenarios scrapper is not very viable. Even when fully traited for tanking/bunker, scrapper just isn't built for it; we cant face tank dps- we have to avoid it. A single mesmer can burst us in one spike, and a single warrior can hit us down 50% with one hit (don't get me started on deadeye) and you combine that in a team fight with just the slightest bit of condi, and BAM self-regulating defenses will rupt your clear and leave you with 4s of unavoidable hell.... and imminent death and a useless tank. When your "tank" cant even honestly tank one warrior, I'm not sure what the point of the class is. Mesmers, Guards, Holos, Rangers, Eles, and really even Necros are better at tanking than scrapper... so its kind of pointless to push it towards tanking when it wasn't a good enough rework to make it viable.

I personally run a demolisher, damage-focused, offensive scrap and I do okay, but it requires an insane amount of work to be effective. No one plays scrapper, and yet, it keeps getting nerfed. It was out of play before these updates, and it is essentially out of play now... and it was so much better before the updates... I miss the clears I had on elixirs, I miss the old adaptive armor, and I miss the 10s cd on protection injection (this wasn't even a nerf to holo, because they already have tons more prot than scrap). There might be a few straggler noobs trying scrap, but none are effective and all are useless. They need to stop nerfing a dead class to get to holo, and start buffing the scrap line to make up for the problems they are causing. They are trying to push it as a tank class, but it's not. It cant face tank damage.

Here are my few requests for scrapper that I think could help bring it up to speed:

1. (This is rather large) Rework gyros; they are useless until further notice (function gyro doesn't count).

2. Offer some form of condition removal in the scrapper specifically. Currently, unless traited up through inventions, there are relatively few options to deal with condi (I mostly anticipate condi-spikes and avoid them with toolkit 4/hammer 4/ Elixer S). It doesn't have to be a lot; maybe add a slight removal of like 2 condis to hammer 3, or shock shield.

3. Maybe a slightly larger range on Electro-Whirl. That could help with the lack of mobility.

Of course, I would like actual buffs to the class beyond these little things (slightly more damage... a little more range to hammer 3... CD reduction... etc) but I realize that such things might make the class viable.

The class is currently in a very bad place... please just do something. AND other people who will comment to say its fine and "OP"... honestly... how many "OP" and "Fine" or even "Balanced" classes have been out of play for ages? Even when a casual noob loads one up, it's a complete joke, and you all know it. Also, don't tell me about how OP it was at launch of HoT... you do realize how many metas ago that was?

Anyway... I love scrap... make it something I can continue to use please.

A L I E N

I would love for the scrapper bugs to be dealt with; however, that won't change that they are still nerfing scrapper AGAIN. It is not in a good place. And honestly, how much damage do you think is being nerfed? Holo is getting nerfed to the explosives triat line... And a little bit to the the overall Holo chain, but it will mostly remain the same. Damage on other classes? Most, even will the nerfs, will come out on top over scrap, esp with us losing protection injection's viability and gaining a CD on self-regulating. Scrapper is not viable at all right now as a bunker- it just doesn't have that capability as much as anet claims it does. Our issue: you need alchemy for viable survival (because gyros are a complete joke) and you need inventions' to deal with conditions, forcing you to be an extremely low-damage, useless addition to a team.. all this while being forced to bring the severely sub-par healing gyro in place of healing turret. It's a bad system that makes for a joke of a "tank" class that honestly can't tank compared to every other class out there. You realistically can't even win bunker situations in a 1v1 format. I've gotten around this by using one of my old builds and just blocking/dodging all of the condition spams while traiting for dps... but man I miss my elixir clears... we need them badly.