lkilian.1854

You baited me, with that tittle I was expecting a lecture on Marxist theory

> Making a marginal class even more marginal

Ah yes, the marginal most popular and strong overall profession for roaming.

Also remove the warclaw

> PVE:

> In pve thief is easily the weakest class getting oneshot by almost everything very hard to level especially for beginners and honestly, not even needed anymore.

> When comparing thief to other classes thief just lacks in anything.

If you really think this is true I'm afraid it's a personal skill problem and honestly given this I don't think your proposals have that much value considering you don't really know how to play the class at all.

It's not directly Metal Legion related, but it's something about another notable musician in the game, Scout Acan.

We can hear him play in Verdant Brink and plays very cool and relaxing songs. He's one of my favourite NPCs without any doubt. Also, recently ArenaKeenan shared a link on reddit of [a song he made time ago](

My question is, is there any chance we can get guitar tabs of some (or all!) of Acan's songs for us who are not good enough to figure them out?

Thank you!

Certified bruh moment

> You don't main thief then... at least not from the beginning. Oh you must play circus acrobat

This dumb "you're not a tRuE aSsASsIn" purism is hillarious because stealth-spammy builds are by far the easier and simpler to play, and those who only play them end up being mediocre thieves that get their asses handed to themselves when they find another thief that has some decent level of skill.

In my experience, thief ends being way more enjoyable with stuff like s/d that employs both dodges/mobility and stealth without being reliant on spamming the latter.

No dude you're not a "true thief" for backstabbing lowies from stealth with other 2 thieves on party in an average tier WvW server.

I actually like having stealth as another tool and not having to depend on it. I think the acrobat/agile-fighting-style arquetype is more fun to play than the stealth one. Permanent stealth is usually boring and not really fun to play as or against it.

Also, I think the "tricky" part is well covered, specially when playing core s/d. The amount of shadowsteps, temporal stealth, stun breaks and condi cleanse makes it absurdly fun to play.

Cool kids play s/d anyways

They're still viable, but for some reason Arenanet has decided that nerfing them and buffing cheesy one-shot deadeye builds was a good idea, and now the way you're expected to play if you just want to not be at disadvantage is playing stealth spamming builds that have diluted the class to a one-shot monkey. I'm really concerned right now about the future of thief, because I'm pretty sure that Anet is going to fuck up more stuff and make every single mechanic as clunky as possible instead of changing the stuff that really needs to be changed.

I'm really mad at Arenanet's balance team right now.

I'd be ok with Swindler's Equilibrium nerf if they reverted the sword auto nerf, or at least reduced it. Now it's very hard to keep pressure on your enemy and you'll be outclassed by any other roaming build. Thief has lost build variety in favor of cheesy burst builds and I hope Anet does something about it. Obviously they won't, because they seem to love to kill alternative builds to the point that they are not viable again, but in an ideal world they would see that almost every roaming build in the game is superior to s/d right now.

Yeah, they only butchered S/D thief in most situations! Thank you Anet for making it decent for the first time in a lot of time in PvE while destroying build diversity in PvP/WvW!

Except with infiltrator's arrow, your other problems are more tied to skill than the mechanic itself. Of course backstab will be hard to land in a sea of mobs, that's kinda the point of the skill.

Thief has many problems, but those last 2 that you listed aren't them.

I'm ok with mesmer having exclusive access to portal, and I say this as someone who doesn't play mesmer outside of raids. We already got the White Mantle Portal device, that gives you a portal with 30min of CD regardless of your profession. It think it is good enough to allow you to do some portal stuff while keeping the class fantasy and uniqueness of mesmer.

Thief. There's no way you can survive with thief if you don't know how the other professions work. It literally forces you to read their movements and know their skills.

Ignore them. I honestly think there are professions way easier than anothers in PvP/WvW, but I won't cry at them about that because if you get killed it's exclusively your fault. Blaming other people won't make you a better player.

> > Nobody's forcing you to play thief.

> >

> > I don't like complexity simply for the sake of it, and I don't find a long rotation any more skillful than a short one, so I don't play ele. Different classes, different aesthetics, play what you like and sod the rest.

>

> Sure. I can take all the downsides without getting any advantage. But I still *could* do it, right? Following this logic, nothing ever needs rebalancing.

You actually can! I played thief dps on raids when it had very mediocre dps because I really like the profession tematically and managed to clear al raids by playing decently, while I could have taken other classes much stronger than thief. If you like ele, you can still play ele and you will realize that it is still very strong (check recent speedclears if you still don't think so and watch how many eles they use and how many thieves). If you don't actually care about the profession you are playing, I honestly see no reason to complain given that you will swap to the next strong class (not speaking despectively, it's a way of playing).

It's funny how noone gave a fuck about thief until we got a buff that allowed us to actually do stuff (it still has downsides, principally no cleave and high condi-boon realiance). Especially when the major part of the people who complain hasn't touched a thief in their life.

What I love about thief is, basically, being a thief.

This might even sound stupid, but there's differences between the thief and assassin archetypes, althought both can overlap perfectly. In my case, i'm a very big fan of the white-collar thief trope. Burglars, pickpockets, escapists, etc. Althought in-game it isn't really possible to fit that archetype (learn from ESO, Anet!), I sure do love making my thief fit that image.

This doesn't really imply a fully pacifist personality, but I really like the idea of outsmarting you enemy instead of just hitting them harder. As an asura player, this gets even more significant: You're smaller, so you have to be cunning and agile to face someone 3x times bigger than you.

But also, the means of the profession are really cool. You're a trickster, an acrobat, and while you have weaknesses, you know your enemy's too. I don't want my thief to be an overpowered edgelord who slays everyone who gets on his way blah blah blah. Subtelty, keeping a low profile, and knowing when to strike will make you live longer. The path of the thief can be rewarding, but also dangerous. You might get beaten up many times, but practice makes perfect. This is probably what I most love about the profession right now: This "trope" of being weaker but being able to pull of neat tricks with skill fits also very well in the gameplay. It's a very nice overlap between class fantasy and mechanics, and it's what makes the game worth playing for me.

Here's my thief: I looked for something that resembled a leather armor with pockets that allow for storing small objects and tools like lockpicks, pliers, etc, while keeping a "simple" aspect so it doesn't draw unnecessary attention. He also has a leather hood and covering fur shoulders to keep a low profile and blend into the crowd. (I like to think that the shoulders can be removed for extra mobility freedom, but i've yet to find some shoulderpads that fit with that mess of a hood).





> @"Zedek.8932" said:

> Excelsior.

>

> Well, I like literally everything of it.

> I usually relax when I can sit down and can alter screenshots or create collages with my Asura, just for the fun of it and to gain some more GFXing skills.

>

> All of my characters, especially my Lalafell Blackmage and my Asura Thief/Deadeye have both a fixed appearance; I do not change it back and forth except for the clothes. But everything else stays. Just like in real life, I stick to my principles.

>

> What I like about my Asura is that it both fits very well. The noble, educated Thief with manners works as much as the black leather wearing, heartless and cold-blooded sniper. Asura are small and thus sneaky, can hide better and don't attract too much (e.g. on wooden planks due to body weight). I usually play stealth games too, so I love the overall feeling of it. I think I've already talked about my childhood and that I often sneaked around for sweets or to troll my parents and classmates or even at work to the well-stocked storage room of the other department I should not even be at.

>

> When playing Styx - the game about a foul-mouthed killer Goblin - I realize what small body size requires and brings, e.g. better acrobatic moves.

>

> Upon giving up on my Engineer I had to decide between Necromancer and Thief. I eventually went for the latter because I like the blood-and-steel method: Arrows, bullets, daggers. I also love the feel to pull out the daggers or pistols out from the Sneakthief set because it really has something to it, some unspoken, hidden threat. A huge sword, yeah, obvious. But small and concealed weapons have this disguised feel to it that I love.

>

> I am leaving all the stuff why I love my Asura thief and sniper. Unfortunately, I had not much time to complete the sets, but I might go back to it:

> Some of it has been posted all over the boards, but it basically shows why I love this game much more than the competitors.

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> My current wallpaper (since 6 months)

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Asura thieves master race

While might not be the greatest fan of the general temathic of your thief (personal tastes, it seems you love it and it's really nice, and I love simplistic weapons too, instead of flashy non-fitting stuff), I think that your edition job is awesome. It's trully amazing, and reminds me a little of Borderlands for some reason. Amazing work!

Also, Styx is an amazing game!

I understand JPrice getting fired. She was just disrespectful. But Peter Fries? Really?

> Don't be afraid to explore the gray area between Good and Evil. That's where true heroes are born.

I wish Anet did this better. Plain stories about goodies vs baddies are generally very predictable. There has been some "grey area" stuff, but it has never been really acknowledged like that and it didn't really have any consequence.

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > Ty for your post. I just cant understand how most of the thief player tend to be in downstate most of The time. Im not IMO good player and i think its hard to die as thief mostly coz of evades/mobility.

> > > Again vale Guardian as example. Blue circles: just Dodge em like you do in ur rotation anyway.

> > > Got ported: use Steal or stolen item to Port Back to fight.

> > >

> > > I guess ill need to stick with my weaver for pug raids.

> >

> > What CptAurellian said + look at one of the latest threads about outhealing VG. It can be a disaster in pugs and I've already seen that in high li/kp requirement groups myself. If things go down the hill a thief is most likely one of the first professions that is dead on the floor in VG fights. So, it doesn't matter if you and few others are able to survive while the majority of thieves are just dead in those scenarios. The experience comes from the average pug player not the ones you met that were superior.

>

> Wait... What. As a thief main I am really curious about how thief is the first to drop dead in VG. And just to be sure... You mean vale guardian right?

>

> Unless that tank is real bad at kiting it... Your mobility will keep you from getting murdered by heat seeking fluff balls and out of the stupid. You can even bounce into the stupid to stop a group while and get out before you die.

>

> Thieves might not contribute more than OK damage but we can stop a party whipe from across the map and still not die.l

This is a weird example to say thief does bad, because D/D deadeye is one of the most solid DPS picks in VG. It can deal a very decent DPS (normally about 21-25k), brings enough CC and can help pushing orbs with shadow gust. My favourite boss to play with thief.

New stolen skills are cool, and in Xera, we have [soul Stone Venom](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Stone_Venom "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Stone_Venom"). It can be useful at this boss because of condi removal, but I think that thief would benefit more of [Throw Magnetic bomb](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Magnetic_Bomb "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Magnetic_Bomb") because of it's pull potential.

In a normal run of Xera, a very critical moment is wen things go downhill and we suddently have a lot of people with condis, for what Soul Stone Venom is great. But this skill depends on steal cd, so sometimes it just isn't enough to cover all the cleanses needed (That why there are other profession with this role). Even then, I think that the stolen skill only being useful in very few moments in a fight that normally happen if someone has messed up is very limitating to the already reduced versatility of Thief.

Unlike this situation, something that is needed very regularly in Xera are pulls. There are a lot of adds along the fight, and Magnetic Bomb would be a magnific way to deal with them, and while it doesn't has as range as for example mesmer's focus pull, with some coordination thief could bring a decent supporting capability to the group. But this is not everything: Magnetic Bomb has actually a very decent damage, so it could be "traded" as part of the rotation for a little extra damage if the thief decides so. This way, we wouldn't have a stolen skill just waiting for the whole encounter to see if something goes wrong.

Please, Anet, I think that thief is in a pretty regular spot right now. As a pure dps class, it doesn't even has much dps compared with most of the other DPS professions. Power thieves could use more acceptance, and I think adding stuff like this would be a nice way to have thief as a good pick, even if it is in only some specific situations.

Thank you.

> @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > @"lkilian.1854" said:

> > I think Thief is in a very good state in PvP. Both core acro S/D and D/P, are viable, but you have to know the pros and cons of each build, and choose the one that better fits your playstile. It has a practically exclusive role in PvP (which I find incredibly fun, a thousand times more entertaining than just one-shoting people), and several tools to help your team and obstaculize your enemies.

> >

> > In WvW it is slightly worse, and the rise of assassin's signet D/P builds are a little sad to me, because it favors a mechanically less complex combat, but it has it's spot. I think that the problem is not only that here thief is a little underperforming, but other classes are absurdly strong for duels, allowing to destroy thieves if they manage to land only a few attacks. Thief is still really decent in WvW tho.

> >

> > In PvE, thief is very mediocre. You can still pull some good numbers (i've had people telling me to not bring daredevil/deadeye, only to shut up when the boss was killed and I was a significant amount of dps over directly stronger professions in terms of damage). It also brings nice cc and some utility with the new stolen skills.

> >

> > In general, thief is pretty weak right now, but there's a pretty big kitten going on asking for unreasonable stuff and making "panic threads". Thankfully, some posts actually give good suggestions and information about the actual state of thief.

> >

> > In my opinion about PvE, Anet needs to focus on buffing the thief on it's single-target damage dealer role and give this profession a few supporting tools, (the new stolen skills are basically what I mean, but I think we could have this recently added aspect of thief more explored in depth) so we are not just edgy stabbers, but also a resourceful class that can pitch in in other stuff than damage.

>

> Well the devs just nerfed single target dmg Dagger and Sword AA attacks so I wouldn't expect them to reverse the nerf... On the other hand thief would be in a good position against all the "other classes that are absurdly strong for duels", and which need to "only land few attacks" to destroy a thief if they didn't kill the D/P DrD endurance access. They nerfed it on SoA, they nerfed in on CV, and on top of that they kitten up Dash too while the cripple spam right now is more than real. I know there were some ridiculous perma evade thief builds out there, but come on, just nerfing the whole trait line won't get the fair results people are after. The fact they nerfed endurance access wasn't necessary bad, but when compared what they introduced in terms of defenses both passive and active on other classes, you will see how thief is an undesired place when you play against experienced players, cause the only ones that are vulnerable to thief right now in WvW are just the inexperienced. Just a heads up, D/P DrD hasn't get any buff, only nerfes, since the patch when they changed Leading Strikes as I can remember, that was more than a year ago if not two... the only way that it got "buffed" was by nerfing other ridiculous stuff that were going on to other professions. D/P thief it's still fun to play though, if you're not into competitive stuff and really stick to decapping (in sPvP) and +1ing (in both sPvP and WvW) and being very selective with your targets while not over-committing.

>

> I'm curious though when you say "assassin's signet D/P builds are a little sad to me, because it favors a mechanically less complex combat", what are the less sad an more mechanically complex thief builds you are comparing it to... just curious, and I really hope your not talking about the power D/D nostalgia, 'cause I'll get even sadder than you...

Basically power S/D, which I find more engaging and allows you to pull really nice tricks if you are good enough. The sPvP D/P build with SoA is also pretty good and I think is fun because it can be played in a very support-ish way, while the build I mentioned is purely backstab cheese and mostly played in WvW. Another build that I liked when it was used (but was useful during a very, very short time) was Physical skills D/P shortly after HoT launch, mostly because it had a lot of damage and you could combo all the utilities in a very fun way. It was (and still is) easily countered by the meta once it was well stablished, so it became practically irrelevant. My point is that imo, any stealth one-shot build on thief is not really fun for me, and Anet has been favoring those by buffing certain stuff and nerfing other. I prefer builds that make you time your attacks and play around your enemy, without loosing the "surprise factor" that skills like shadowsteps, headshot or CnD can offer.

I didn't like the nerfs to Dagger and Sword AA, and I think thief lacks strength in their dueling aspect while others are too strong (something Anet should fix, but their balance patches are GLACIAL), but honestly I like more the role of a decapper/roamer that thief has in pvp than just being another duelist. Also, skill rewards this class a lot, meaning that you can still duel people. What you say about " the only ones that are vulnerable to thief right now in WvW are just the inexperienced" is partially false. While a lot of equally skilled players can take you relatively easily if they have determined builds and some knowledge, and it is absurly easy to kill someone with very few practice, builds like for example power mirages are directly countered by thieves right now, especially by s/d thief. Necros are also weak if you have the space and time to kite them well, average skill-level revenants can be effectively pressured if you time well your attacks, and firebrands can be dealt relatively easily, although full bunker builds are really boring to kill.

I think Thief is in a very good state in PvP. Both core acro S/D and D/P, are viable, but you have to know the pros and cons of each build, and choose the one that better fits your playstile. It has a practically exclusive role in PvP (which I find incredibly fun, a thousand times more entertaining than just one-shoting people), and several tools to help your team and obstaculize your enemies.

In WvW it is slightly worse, and the rise of assassin's signet D/P builds are a little sad to me, because it favors a mechanically less complex combat, but it has it's spot. I think that the problem is not only that here thief is a little underperforming, but other classes are absurdly strong for duels, allowing to destroy thieves if they manage to land only a few attacks. Thief is still really decent in WvW tho.

In PvE, thief is very mediocre. You can still pull some good numbers (i've had people telling me to not bring daredevil/deadeye, only to shut up when the boss was killed and I was a significant amount of dps over directly stronger professions in terms of damage). It also brings nice cc and some utility with the new stolen skills.

In general, thief is pretty weak right now, but there's a pretty big circlejerk going on asking for unreasonable stuff and making "panic threads". Thankfully, some posts actually give good suggestions and information about the actual state of thief.

In my opinion about PvE, Anet needs to focus on buffing the thief on it's single-target damage dealer role and give this profession a few supporting tools, (the new stolen skills are basically what I mean, but I think we could have this recently added aspect of thief more explored in depth) so we are not just edgy stabbers, but also a resourceful class that can pitch in in other stuff than damage.