judeobscure.2537

> @"Naxos.2503" said: > Wow O.o > > That took me by surprise, I hope the venture will go smoothly :+1: what do you know? ;)

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > Glad you found it helpful. Here's another that shows the potential for GW2's action combat system. I happen to be wearing tanky gear in this clip, and this boss hits like a truck, but it doesn't even matter because I'm able to use positioning, dodging and defensive cooldowns to avoid almost every attack! Awesome stuff, Aliam. And here I was asking if the game was too easy and if I needed to use white/basic items - I'm so far from this level of play. I didn't even really understand the rudiments of the combat systems in the game. SMH. I learned a ton in this thread. Thank you all! :smile:

> @"Mungo Zen.9364" said: > > This is why I really don't like the Diablo or Path of Exile franchises. Running through mobs with the best 'lawn mower' build is only fun for a few minutes. I don't mind if it happens occasionally in games but like you, I don't want it to be the running theme. I've played Diablo and PoE as well, but in those games I never get good enough to where my whole screen is always full of mobs that are all exploding ever second or two. I usually just play through the campaign a couple of times, so I never get too powerful, which keeps combat in the fun/challenging zone. I think I'm just only so interested in combat. I can enjoy it plenty, but there has to be more going on to sustain my interest. I think I'm learning that as I learn about GW story/lore/world. > Dynamic all the way. I call them rotations but they are just combinations of actions that group well together. The core DPS rotation which will be the thing you typically open and work with. Some skills work better before/after another skill such as Combo Fields (if you haven't yet, go read about them here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo ). As well some classes have 'ramp up' effects like Warriors Adrenaline or Necromancer Life Force that allow you to build towards a bigger effect or ability. > > If you consider that most classes have 15-25 available actions during combat (weapon and utility skills as well as class special skills), you won't be using them all to just beat stuff up. There are heals, buffs, cleanses and mobility that focus on your character or group that are situational but, in my mind, important tools to be aware of how to use properly (or at least that you can use them and that they are good to use some times). Thank you for the link about Combo Skills. I had read something about those before, but didn't really understand. Just reading the wiki is fun! Having so many different types of skills you're having to manage in real time at the pace of the fight/game does seem fun. How silly I was thinking I needed to use basic/white items to enjoy the game - my goodness. > All the time......literally. I have 3 primary builds for my main character based upon different encounter and grouping types (Full Power, Full Support, Hybrid) and within those I am always tinkering with which utilities I want to use for a given moment. In any given play session I will swap my build several times and adjust my utilities many more. Whether it be pausing for a second to adjust them before entering combat, or even running out of a zerg to change the build and come back in, I do it all the time. > Case in point, I was just fighting Tequatl (overworld squad boss) with 50+ players and between the first and second phases I went from a healing/support build to a power/buffing build as that is what helps the group the most in my opinion. Not everyone does this, and I could be 'overthinking and overplaying' the game but, there are a whole lot of "power" players who just focus on the DPS and allow others to pick up the support. This sounds awesome. Not only are you managing your skills, but also your build+skills+items, all in real time as the fight changes. I wonder how many players out there are playing the game this way. I find it fascinating to hear about what sustains players for so long, and then to hear about the differen things they're focusing on in-game. That sounds super. I doubt I'll ever get that good, but wow, now I'm seeing more what they meant when the said they were inspired by the Magic: The Gathering game. But in real-time, not turn-based! Thank you for breaking everything down, explaining it all, and making it easy to understand, MZ! =) > You might be able to find a comparison of the different classes and their pro's and con's somewhere. I will add that Elementalist was one of the harder classes to level for myself, while Ranger and Warrior were pretty much as expected to get into. The design of these three classes has Ranger and Warrior a lot closer to what you would expect from an MMO, while the Elementalist is unlike anything I have played in another game. Speaking of, what other games have you enjoyed as much? Elementalist differ from similar classes in other games you've played? > In some cases yes, some no.... I will add in that this game does have some skill queueing so if you have one skill activating you can hit the next skill and it will queue up for activation when the first has completed. However, given the variables I noted above, not all skills will work the same, and it is best to play around with them yourself to feel how it flows with your style of gameplay. > > > My favorite MMO have been SWtoR and GW2 as I enjoy flowing combat, similar to a dance. The pacing of CD's on some professions and builds in GW2 creates a very dance like rotation. Referring to myself above, 3-5 seconds of dancing, or chain pulling mobs into the dance to keep the fun rolling is really enjoyable for me. Do you still play SWTOR? Did you play GW1? > You aren't always in combat, you can choose to be as involved as you like. The open spaces in GW2 allow for a lot of free movement around the maps, but do expect more combat as you head into enemy areas of course. There are a lot of Way Points (the method of fast travel) dotted around the Core maps as well (way too many, but, that is to your advantage). I think I fall into a trap of thinking I need to kill everything I see. Even though I don't like the idea on paper, I still have the 'clear' mentality I used in games like Diablo and PoE where I wanted to clear the whole map, almost as if I had to to move to the next area. I think I end up 'focusing' on combat in GW2 in part because enemies area always respawning. Which is silly because you can never get rid of them all. I guess that would need to be another change in mindset I would need in order to avoid getting burned out - not killing too much. thank you, mz. :smile:

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said: Aliam, this was awesome to see. You made some great points, and the videos make it easier to understand. Thank you for taking the time to put that post together with the videos - I appreciate it! Your post, along with Danikat and Mungo, have really helped me understand much better what to expect from the combat, weapon, and armor systems.

> @"Mungo Zen.9364" said: > > I found that at level 80 in Zergs I wanted to do less DPS to allow more players to get involved in events. Sometimes events end very quickly as players are maxing their DPS which has led to community Mentors and Commanders during these events to call out for "Auto Attack Only" to extend the time an event or champion is available for players to tag. By creating 'Zerg' builds focused around providing more utility and less DPS I found a nice balance between enjoying the combat mechanics for my profession and overpowering the mobs. > That is interesting, mz, not something i would have expected to be happening out there in the wild. > Having observed how combat is developed for games, one consideration is Time To Kill (TTK). This can be measured in seconds, in button presses, in actions taken or others. I have found that in GW2 solo combat that feels 'good' for me lasts a 3-5 seconds or about 1-2 rotations through my main offensive skills (perhaps up to 10 actions/keystrokes). I don't really care about shorter combat, swatting flies is an annoyance more than an enjoyment. This is something I've been thinking about as well. I'm trying to marry the weight of the story/lore/world with the combat, and I'm having diffculty with this part. I feel like killing thousands of sentient beings and monsters, each within a few seconds or fractions of seconds leaves me feeling hollow. When I think what something like that might be like irl, and then to look at how it's represented in game, it's just not appealing. I'm trying to think how I can change my mindset about combat to make it more enjoyable within the fold of experiencing the story and world. I'd like the warring and fighting to have an emotional aspect or payoff to synchronize with the arc of the story. But I feel like there's a disconnect there. How could I frame the actual experience of the combat gameplay so that it integrates better into my experience of the story? > On the other end, soloing Champs for a couple minutes where I get to run through all my tools and rotations multiple times can be very enjoyable. Over time I learned that it is harder on yourself to avoid self-sustain abilities, traits, skills and gear if you want to take on greater challenges solo or in small groups. One question I have about combat skill rotations is, are you responding dynamically to what the enemies are doing, where you may choose different skills in different sequences, or are you always going through your skills in the same order? > The relevance here is that at level 80, there is no gear grind or escalator, rather this game offers horizontal progression. You won't be looking for the next most powerful piece of gear every new Release to upgrade to, but rather, alternate stat combos to augment how you play your chosen profession. Do you change your build depending on the environments and enemies you're fighting? Does the game allow for that type of flexibility, control, and response? Is that an enjoyable way to play? I'm wondering if alternate stat combos are more for the sake of variety, or if they're necessary to respond to and defeat various enemies? > So I think, after that, I am answering some of your questions. I enjoy feeling the combat in this game, I expanded my understanding of Utility and Support skills to increase my sustain, which in turn reduces my DPS and allows me to experience the flow of combat in a manner I enjoy. This is interesting, are you talking here again about intentionally underperforming in combat so as to lengthen the engagement with the enemy as well as your own abilities? > And I apologize since I am looking at this primarily from a level 80 standpoint. After getting all 9 Professions to 80 I didn't see the need to invest into the 1-80 again. That's quite alright, this is invaluable insight for me. I'm learning a ton. You guys are saving me a ton of time and frustration I would have dealt with going in blindly. > Now that said, what I have told friends or guildies that are new to the game is to try out all the weapons and utility skills your class offers. You can go to the PvP lobby and try out all the skills and utilities to get a feel for how they work in game on a target dummy (Caution, PvP and WvW have slightly different takes on about 800 skills in this game, some have different CD which will be the most notable effect when testing, most are damage or coefficient related however). Great, I hadn't even considered doing this. I am playing around with different weapons and skills to see what I enjoy. I'm torn between the elementalist, the ranger, and the warrior. I doubt I'll have time to play the game through more than once, but it's difficult choosing between melee and traditional combat and magic. > Don't just look at what the skills do but feel them. Some skills you can be cast while moving, some force you to stop, some stop casting when you move. Some skills can be cast while another skill is being cast even. As well there is the pre-cast and after-cast animations, and travel time for ranged skills. I hadn't considered this either. There are so many options and combinations. Are we able to interrupt pre and post cast animations just be initiating another action/movement/skill? > My favorite MMO have been SWtoR and GW2 as I enjoy flowing combat, similar to a dance. The pacing of CD's on some professions and builds in GW2 creates a very dance like rotation. Referring to myself above, 3-5 seconds of dancing, or chain pulling mobs into the dance to keep the fun rolling is really enjoyable for me. I've caught myself watching animations and trying to position mobs too since I read your post. I think combat is the biggest hurdle for me in choosing GW2 as an RPG to invest in. I've always been more interested in story, lore, characters, and details more than combat. I like what I've learned about the story and lore of GW1/2 so far, I'm just wondering if I can sustain through so much combat, even if it's fun but feels disconnected from the story I'm playing through. I think I misunderstood just how differently different games and studios approach RPG design. I didn't realize combat was the dominant focus of the game. I see there is a lot of exploration too, but slaughtering thousands of mobs and enemies, without ever the threat of really dying, equates in my mind to my character essentially being a god. A god that doesn't make many decisions and only has to kill enough to see the end. Any thoughts on how to approach that? What is it you look for in how you receive and experience the story? How does combat fit into and define the experience of the GW world and stories for you? Thanks so much for your responses, mz. :smile:

> @"Danikat.8537" said: Thank you for your write-up, Danikat! This is invaluable information for me. It sounds like I would have wasted a lot of time unnecessarily. This is definitely helping me understand the game better, and plan better how I want to approach my playthrough. :smile: Your last 2 recommendations of just using yellows or greens for additional challenge if necessary is very helpful. It sounds like that's a good way learn the enemies and my class while being retaining the challenge. Afterall, I don't want to make it impossible because that won't be any fun, but I also want the combat to be challenging, rewarding, and fun. It feels awful to kill things in 1 second, and then to kill dozens or hundreds of them that way. It feels like a waste of time. I was making an assumption that I needed to use only whites or that I would run into power balance problems from other games. This is another thing I'm not well versed in about MMOs or GW2 in particular. Your information about stat combinations and equipment, damage type, defense or offensive focus is very helpful. I didn't realize that white/basic items/gear is limited in this way, and who knows how long I would have played without realizing that. Thanks, again, Danikat. I think instead of blindly, arbitrarily limiting myself without understanding even the rudiments of the combat design this approach is much better; knowing more about how the game works beforehand. I always thought that would ruin the game, but I'd hate to play for a long time and not know about or understand some of these fundamental aspects of the game. There's so much to learn. I'd like to hear more about your connection to GW2, Danikat. I see your hours and years played. I'd like to hear more about your decision to reside here. Was it it luck that GW2 happened to provide what you needed? Did you know early on that it had what you were looking for? Did you play GW1? Why not other games as well? Do you play other games? Do you play other types of RPGs?

mungo zen.9364, thank you so much for your comment. that's helpful insight. i like your suggestion about also evaluating at lvl 80 across classes. do you play with any self-imposed limitations or other rules variants similar to what danikat.8537 and i were discussing? as danikat had asked, i think my main motivations here are: a. making combat challenging throughout b. experiencing combat in way that allows me to experience and learn the enemy movesets and abilities as well as those of my own character/class. c. add quality and value back into the combat so as to make it more enjoyable, thereby making the overall experience of the game more enjoyable. i'm finally starting to understand and appreciate the lore aspect of the game, but the enemies not offering much challenge contradicts the importance they have in the lore/story/world-building. that disconnect between what enemies represent from within the story and the challenge they represent in combat leaves me unsatisfied. i consume games and stories at an excruciatingly slow pace and know i won't have the time and stamina to blast through lvls 1-80 and the story repeatedly which is why i'm considering this type of playthrough. i'm hoping to increase the quality of the experience as per my preferences. but i'm very ignorant of the combat mechanics and game systems so i'm trying to educate myself a bit more first, although i'm sure i'm gonna run into some things i don't count on. permadeath sounds appealing too, but i'm afraid like pacificterror.7805 was remarking, i'm just not skilled enough, nor do i imagine i would have enough time and stamina to play through again if i died near the end of my story. mungo zen, how would you describe your motivations when you play? i think that's another aspect i'm interested in exploring during this playthrough - to better understand the structure, ambitions, and limitations of the rpg experience in mmos. i've really only started to learn about the different ways rpgs work across different mediums (tabletop, boardgames, solo crpgs, mmos), and i think i'm trying to determine the rpg experience that works best for me going forward. please feel free to also share other thoughts on the broader topic of different strategies/approaches you use and recommend to best enjoy gw2. thanks all :smile:

> @"Danikat.8537" said: > Do you mean basic as in only white quality equipment? > Thank you very much for taking the time to respond, Danikat! This is exactly the kind of information and insight I was hoping to get. Yes, you're right, I meant basic/white items and equipment. Are there parts of the games that for all intents and purposes basically unavailable to you now because of the self-imposed limitations we're discussing? Is accessing and completing the more difficult areas/content a part of the challenge, or do you feel there is a hard limit on what can be achieved using basic/white tier items and armor? I was wondering where the limit is and meant to add that to my original post. I feel if I did hit a limit with what I could accomplish in game using basics/white, that I would then consider going to the next tier of item. I'm curious how unbalanced the relationship between player and content is. I've always heard mmo players complain about the games being too easy (overpowered items, zerging, monster/boss design, etc.) and felt this would be a good way to address that problem. Based on all your play, what tier weapon and armor would be the minimum required to clear all content? Will you play EoD this way? Do you still play without these rule variants on other characters so you can experience the parts of the game that are inaccessible when playing basic+permadeath? How would you characterize your motivations for playing GW2 (lore, combat, exploration, social, etc.)? Have you experienced everything in GW2 that you're interested in?