Curunen.8729

> @"Zoser.7245" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > The tradeoff should be losing Distortion, and modifying all other shatters. > > > > F4 should be Desert Distortion only - ie gain 1s mirage cloak (no invuln, only evade), and all clones become mirrors. Additionally, breaking mirrors from any source should give 1s mirage cloak (maybe this could be the replacement trait - buffing mirrors or something). > > I can't watch mirrors as a realiable source for replace distortion. Clones, unless your at melee range, can be elsewhere in undesirable places to use those mirrors. So F4 will be a waste almost always with only 1s of mirage cloak. They also often not survive enough to profit them for increase of F4 duration. For change F4 to something worse better don't touch it with the excuse of give back the second dodge. We don't need extra nerfs with the trade off excuse. > > One of the worst things that have happened to mesmers is, in fact, the rework of traits and skills only with only PvP in mind and a narrow vision of the matter. Each time that they do it we lose diversity and effectiveness in other game modes. Even WvW suffered it. That also happen if you only take into the account a single game mode, only PvE, for example. We actually have several traits that are only useful or relevant in a single game mode and práctically useless in others. The best is first fix the purpose of the trait/skill and once you know it find a way to make it useful in every game mode, even if those traits and skills must have some extra effects depending of the game mode without changing its design goal.. > > Can't even imagine what more they'd ruin the next time they make some rework on Mesmers/Mirage. But with the next expansion i can visualice the next hits to us. I actually almost not use my Mirage but i'll suffer them too. I can only hope that, with a bit of luck, they'll at least have a clever vision of how improve several things instead of ruin them like they often do with mesmers. Wel, time will show it. I agree that mirrors aren't exactly an ideal mechanic - especially reliance on clone positions for mirror spawns on F4 which can be a mess compared with utility mirror generators, but the main motivation is that having mirage cloak as before with 2 dodges, in addition to normal Distortion was excessive in terms of survivability - and instead of nerfing the unique mechanic they should do similar to what they did to Chrono and make mirage F4 different (perhaps weaker) than core. The idea being that MC is strong enough, and dodge access is reliable enough with 2 dodges, that F4 becomes more of a "luxury" that needs some additional work to get the benefit from - as mirage cloak on the dodge button is virtually the same in practice as hitting F4 aside from obvious difference of evade and invuln, it is reasonable to encourage mirage in the way it is unique, while further differentiating from core. There are other changes I'd like to see to support this - one of which is restoring Jaunt to 20s charge cooldown (they can leave it at 2 charges if necessary). Also would be making IH grandmaster minor, offloading most condi application and any direct damage to player ambush, and reworking F1-F3 to function as Riddle of Sand does for F2 (shatters having weaker upfront effect, but each shatter activating a buff to enhance the subsequent ambush attack, for direct, condi and cc respectively). If losing normal Distortion is that bad, they could even go back to increasing dodge to 1s duration - though this may be swinging too much the other way again. Edit - see below for addition to this reply, sorry didn't think of it at the time of writing. > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > The tradeoff should be losing Distortion, and modifying all other shatters. > > I think they should keep other Shatters and modify Distortion instead. > Would be cool if Mirage's Distortion gave base amount of Invul but allow them to Mirage Cloak upon attacked, stacking up to 3 times based on how many clones Shattered. > > So instead of having 1 - 4s Invul, they will instead get 1s Invul and 3 instances of auto Mirage Cloak which lasts for about 5s > This gives them abit of counter pressure when being attacked after they used Distortion. > > Ofc, IH has to be rebalanced if this were to happen. For F1-3 I was thinking Riddle of Sand style. Eg: - F1 minus 50% direct damage. Gain a buff that the next ambush attack deals +100% damage - F2 direct application changed to bleeding. Riddle of Sand baseline (next ambush deals 2 stacks confusion) - F3 is a bit weird. Could stay as it is tbh but gain a buff that the next ambush does "something"... (many thoughts about changing cc application, but not sure which way to go at the moment). Yep, IH and clone ambushes are crucial to look at - I still am of the same opinion that it should be minor and most clone ambush effects should be shifted to the player, with them being visual red herrings. And Sword/Trident clones shouldn't cc on ambush. Yeah perhaps as with Chrono F4, Mirage F4 could have 1s initial invuln - though I'm leaning more towards just make everything Mirage Cloak on mirage. Maybe F4 could be a flipover skill to make this all work out. Eg: First press - all clones turn into mirage mirrors (you gain 1s mirage cloak) Second press (flipover skill) - instantly shatter all mirage mirrors to gain x seconds mirage cloak (1s per mirror) Thereby having the option to either: - leave them on the ground until needed - "consume" them to get short duration chain evasion (at the cost of only one ambush activation) Could be the best of both worlds.

The tradeoff should be losing Distortion, and modifying all other shatters. F4 should be Desert Distortion only - ie gain 1s mirage cloak (no invuln, only evade), and all clones become mirrors. Additionally, breaking mirrors from any source should give 1s mirage cloak (maybe this could be the replacement trait - buffing mirrors or something). Then give the second dodge back. In terms of visual effects of MC - the bright white flash could be reduced in intesity (it's excessively bright in my opinion). Aside from that, I belive it's kind of the point of the spec to be difficult to identify what is going on in terms of animations. But here, they should instead reduce it's ability to deal massive burst by reducing F1 damage potential on Mirage only, as part of shatter modifications. Maybe even the crude -50% nerf. And buff direct damage of player ambush only. Force it to be a sustained damage spec, direct or condi, and force it to play with its unique mechanic of ambushes. That way no ability to one-shot, no surprises - but on the flipside, more difficult to see what they are doing/what is going on - more emphasis on eg detargeting and obscuring the mirage's actions. I strongly believe core mesmer should be the big "100-0" F1 wombo combo old school shatter playstyle. Mirage should not be the same, neither power nor condi - all damage application of mirage should be more gradual than core, but the benefit being less downtime (ie not massive burst and gtfo) and more difficult to pin down.

The only criteria I have for preferred skins are those that don't look like one might kill themselves while wielding them, or fall over while carrying them (even assuming asura magic tech attachment device for carrying on back). For example all the random spikes on various sword hilts that appear more likely to take your own arm off. xD Sunrise/Twilight I give a pass because the paint effect is too beautiful.

Staff phantasm especially - tickle your opponent for an eternity before turning into something useful. xD (Granted I realise you mean the period after the attack)

>Am I the only one who feels this way? Certainly not. Good effort on the write up though. Too many things don't make much sense.

I think the specific buttons F1-F4 need to exist in some form because of various Core traits that modify them (blinding dissipation, shattered concentration, bountiful disillusionment, restorative illusions, master of fragmentation... etc...). It's difficult to think of anything different that would function properly with core trait lines. But sure, they don't have to be "shatters", and we don't have to have clones/phantasms separate from the player - which I'm hoping the next elite spec is at least a cloneless spec of some kind.

EoD new elite specs and deep profession/spec review.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > Listen im drunk rn so ima make you a promise ill forget to keep. ill make a list of whats wrong with everygin mesmer related, including core, chrono and mirage. > howout tnat a christmass promise? Good luck writing that Thesis!

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" > > > @"Lucio.4190" > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" > > > > > > We should def start with creating a new thread in the mesmer forum, asking for input from all mesmer players and try to find all mesmers weaknesses together. Everything from traits, weapon skills, utility skills, healing skills and elite skills to core mesmer, chronomancer and mirage. Compare them to the other classes. Just try to make detailed research on this together. > > > > > > And then organize ingame protests that goes on until we hopefully get attention from Anet. > > > > > > This seriously needs to happen. > > > > This was done earlier this year, though I can't seem to find Jazz's thread. Everyone wrote walls of text. > > > > Nothing will come of it sadly - it's a case of accept stuff as it is, or wait for EoD where there may be a final deep profession review. > > Yes, but if you're defeated before you even try, or try again and again, then all we can expect is more nerfs and things gettin worse and worse. :confused: > I can't just accept that the more i play the worse my profession will get because everyone is staying silent and complainers get a laugh out of our nerfs to stuff that was never OP in the first place. > > Like, i'm playing a Revenant going through story and stuff, and MAN all the skills and traits are so fluid, do decent damag and compared to mesmer skills have WAY less cooldowns and cast times for greater effect. Same with other professions. Everyone does more with less except for mesmer. Playing any of them feels so effortless compared to playing a mesmer. > > But if people don't have their voices heard, then there's no chance for anything to ever change, not even in the expansion. > It's better to try repeatedly and fail than not try at all. That wasn't the first time, not by far. I'd actually say that was the last effort (and even then I'd wager most of us couldn't be kittened at that point). This has been years of process, and countless discussions across both this and the old forum. Clear recent example - 1 year between removal of IP from Chrono and giving it back again. If that had been 1 month testing something like removal of self-shatter from chrono and iterating swiftly on it, then I'd applaud for trying out brave new ideas. Nearly 2 years between slapping Exhaustion on Elusive Mind then deciding to remove it and change the trait. The pace is glacially slow to nonexistant, especially since February (and it was already slow beforehand). I appreciate they're working on EoD elite specs right now, and we've had a difficult year with the pandemic, but it is unlikely for anything significant to change until the expansion. By all means, go for it if you feel enthusiastic enough. Just don't expect any outcome - sorry to not hold much optimism.

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said: > @"Veprovina.4876" > @"Lucio.4190" > @"Leonidrex.5649" > > We should def start with creating a new thread in the mesmer forum, asking for input from all mesmer players and try to find all mesmers weaknesses together. Everything from traits, weapon skills, utility skills, healing skills and elite skills to core mesmer, chronomancer and mirage. Compare them to the other classes. Just try to make detailed research on this together. > > And then organize ingame protests that goes on until we hopefully get attention from Anet. > > This seriously needs to happen. This was done earlier this year, though I can't seem to find Jazz's thread. Everyone wrote walls of text. Nothing will come of it sadly - it's a case of accept stuff as it is, or wait for EoD where there may be a final deep profession review.

> @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > and does something stupid like take full trailblazer without Domination then of course it is a bad build. Sure, sufficiently good players with a worse build should be able to beat sufficiently weak players with good build - on a continuous scale depending on both variables > so you accept my suggestion, but understand yet that you accept it Of course, yet you have ignored the main point that I stated afterwards - which puts that small subset of scenarios into the whole picture - and that big picture is not good enough when it comes to variety/options. You can't just simplify into "x combination of traits/skills => good/bad build". There is a range but the peak of "good" builds is very narrow, and too many combinations fall below what is possible for any player to do well with - when faced with the best combinations and sufficiently decent players. Eg, what if someone wanted to take scepter/focus+staff and chaotic interruption/ineptitude, mantra of distraction etc for some kind of old school condirupt. Not optimal, no, but a fair number of synergies which ought to work better than they do - it falls completely flat against any form of IH+DE mirage, or well played power shatter for example. There's too many (potentially workable) build combinations like that which should be better than they are, if Anet were to review other possibilities, rather than pigeonholing us further onto the very narrow path we have now. > > Ok, so I suppose they should just remove IP (self-shatter) from Chrono again, for the sake of making a change? > if roll back same thing from 0 to 1 I don't see fesh wave in it. So remove F12345 keys at all more beeter. I don't say that this is good, I say it better that remove self-shatter and back again, and remove again So then some changes are bad and some changes are good - in this way surely Anet should be more careful what they change rather than either doing something for the sake of it, or (as in the past) crude "50%" nerfs? I believe you are genuine in this thread, hence open to have a discussion - though I doubt many people here are going to agree with your perspective, as is being seen. However while we may have slight agreement on one small part of this topic, I don't think we are going to change each other's minds in general.

> @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > I don't understand - decent capacity means "ok". > why is shoudl be "ok" ?? no. This is not properly way. I'm failing to understand what you're trying to say. > > Disagree with this - how many trait/skill/weapon combinations there are, but how many are actually on par with each other when eg considering a mirror match. Too much filler, not enough equal variety. > we talk about pvp ? we have mmr system. So be sure that it have good balance. On wvw size matter, this is great. So mesmer can any traits and be happy, or unhappy,. but it depend from person, but not from class. It's a broad spectrum, but even within the range of player abilities, there are far too many build combinations that fall way below the few actually solid options. This doesn't mean there shouldn't be bad build combinations - ie sure if someone wants to play GS and does something stupid like take full trailblazer without Domination then of course it is a bad build. Sure, sufficiently good players with a worse build should be able to beat sufficiently weak players with good build - on a continuous scale depending on both variables - however I'm arguing that the number of insufficient/sub par build permutations is significant compared with the player ability gap/range that should otherwise be able to make up for it. > > In the same way why should anything else be changed at all? Game functions fine and few people complain about mesmer currently so they could leave it all as is. > people need some changes, no matter, good or bad. Ok, so I suppose they should just remove IP (self-shatter) from Chrono again, for the sake of making a change?

> @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > I've played on a 15" screen the last few years and have no issue with clone number, health, model size etc for opponent mesmers. In wvw without standard character models. > I am also use notebook screen, and I see that it can be improved. Well I think it is fine. Maybe you could have improvements to the standard character model option instead of the regular view, which should remain full size, same appearance as player and no less health. > > In terms of regularity of spawning clones - it's precisely because they're so fragile that things like DE are so pivotal in certain builds. One takes a whole lot of pointless filler traits just to get that single trait that enables the build to function in any decent capacity. > Why is should have "decent capacity"? I don't understand - decent capacity means "ok". > > continuous nerfs have thinned options to necessitating a very limited but vital number of dependencies - and yes this doesn't mean certain dependencies aren't still a problem when looked at in isolation. > this is gw2. There is no any "limited but vital number of dependencies" Disagree with this - how many trait/skill/weapon combinations there are, but how many are actually on par with each other when eg considering a mirror match. Too much filler, not enough equal variety. > > Hopefully when EoD drops, there will be a deeper and more comprehensive review of all specs in each profession. > don't why you hope. You will not get after hot, dont get is after pof, why eod should change it ?? I think best way - don't do any global spec review. In the same way why should anything else be changed at all? Game functions fine and few people complain about mesmer currently so they could leave it all as is.

I've played on a 15" screen the last few years and have no issue with clone number, health, model size etc for opponent mesmers. In wvw without standard character models. In terms of regularity of spawning clones - it's precisely because they're so fragile that things like DE are so pivotal in certain builds. One takes a whole lot of pointless filler traits just to get that single trait that enables the build to function in any decent capacity. I don't get how nerfing axe further would push any kind of "master of illusions" theme. I get that you (the OP) don't want the class to be "too strong" so to be even more niche that even fewer people play it (personally I'm sure most players of a class don't want it to be flavour of the month, but this comes across as excessive bordering on elitist) - but it's not as simple as "this too strong/that too strong" - continuous nerfs have thinned options to necessitating a very limited but vital number of dependencies - and yes this doesn't mean certain dependencies aren't still a problem when looked at in isolation. But rather than taking the nerf hammer to these things further, one should look at how to scaffold the fairly large number of weak/almost pointless filler options (traits, skills etc) to support wider build variety. Hopefully when EoD drops, there will be a deeper and more comprehensive review of all specs in each profession.

Disappointed to not see any mention of "Don't stop till you get enough" in here. xD