kash.9213

In WvW, maybe think about using Stealth for positioning and masking position for Stealth Attacks, you're not going to map travel totally unseen. - You would be safer sliding your view distance out some and panning camera to peek around corners or over something and to let your peripheral keep you updated on everything including your mini map. - If you're going to close in on someone to open with a burst and sequence, think about the topography and line of site between you and them and what they can see in their camera view to gauge how close you can get before they scramble. - Your build is going to decide your weapons and the other way around. You're playing mostly to the utility you have to keep up with or keep distance from people and you need to be able to debuff their layers and open them up regardless of how hard you can hit. - My Power is maybe just passable but once I'm hitting raw health bar with Damage along with secondary mods like Life Steal it doesn't really matter much. I like DA on my Core template and I'd rather have Crit Strikes and Trickery on my DE but that's my matchup and log in time. - Assassins Signet is nice if you have the slots for it and it's a priority for you but if it was a decision on my Utility bar I'd take Signet of Shadows.

> @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > I'm pretty sure the two most common classes that are going to be brought up are Engineers and Guardians because clouders don't like people running support and as organisation in the mode falls low, more players end up as clouders. > > The two classes I think needs to be looked at the most are Thieves and Rangers. Thieves have a very odd balance at being underrepresented at large scale and overrepresented at small scale. Two wrongs do not make a right as the saying goes. The whole picking fights at will, committing and quitting, issue is not well designed. Just look at all those Thief meta builds running the same utilities etc., regardless of spec. Deadeye was also always a concept-design problem that goes deeper than just simple balance. A sneaky ranged dude is going to have nightmare balance and alot of built-in anti-fun. It's a typical example of where something that looks cool in concept is not very good design in gameplay. Rangers just have general representation issues and most of the things that get brought up when people complain about them are rather destructive but not particularily powerful niches (like tower pew and imob). > > I would rather that these classes got some stuff that made them appealing in groups, fit into broader conventional play, covered some holes in their design and made sure their concepts actually panned out well in gameplay. Thief and Deadeye are fine in large scale though. There's no need to try to balance for an issue that mostly involves player preference, that approach would cause problems and probably just brake the class. Also clouding has been a thing since the beginning and no one has cared until recently for some reason. It's not unorganized, it's just more people know what to do with their class at this point and can stretch a little while still moving as a team.

You can build for it but you're visually active and you know you'll get focused. When I'm not using Death's Retreat or Snipers Cover Rifle mostly delivers Death's Judgment's and Debuff, Marked, Stolen Skill pushes. If they live through your push and you gas out into auto it's not horrible but it feels and sounds lame. I'd rather it was dialed all the way up to Commando wackiness or dialed down to Rainbow Six silencer and allow single press shot or hold for fast full auto that can be spread for cleave with damage adjusted.

> @"Touchme.1097" said: > It's sad to see WvW reduced to a blob meta, I don't even like to play EB maps for this same reason. I am currently enjoying sPvP better than WvW, that is the right place for people who want to improve their skills. I will reconsider WvW when the devs will do something to deal with the current meta. If there are blobs on any of your maps then there is stuff to do. You better come back and clean up the WvW trash with all that improved spvp skill.

> @"Sansar.1302" said: > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > @"Sansar.1302" said: > > > Wonder why you cant have 6 vs 5 in spvp... > > No I dont wonder that since sPvP is all about outmanouvering your enemy so you can win points (more often than not by outnumbering them on that point). > > > > Should we wonder why the winning team never forfeit the match because they are dominating the enemy and a win would be unfair and dumb? > > lol you bend every word , have seen you in other posts seam like you hate fighting yet you are active in a pvp sub board. > > WvW in my mind is only about fighting all else is only flavor and thus we all should aim to have a healty game mode ( and in my mind that should mean that even numbred figths should be the norm not the exeption. all the way from 1v1 to full squad vs full squad. ) > Some deviation ofc, but as some the few last years active try to ruin any fair fight, why? You're asking a bunch of people to not fight when they see you having a predictable safe duel but somehow you're all about the fights?

> @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Lithril Ashwalker.6230" said: > > I'm belittled, laughed at > > To be bullied based off my preferred class and to be shunned > r/thatHappened > > Here is the reality about thieves in zergs from someone who occasionally pugmands: > Nothing wrong with the class. Lots of options to build a solid productive zergling with it... > But no one does. > > Every time I pugmand there are two types of players that are **never** on tag. Rangers and Thieves. **If there's someone off tag, giving our position away, squirelling after some useless roamer to chase a shred of wxp it's a Thief or a Ranger.** > I would gladly welcome a solid pogo thief in my squad but you never see them. A good Deadeye can keep crazy boons up on a line, but again... you never see those either. > Never. > **The Thieves you do get in zergs are low-effort, low-skill players who think that staying on tag refers to everyone but them. Who don't want to run a solid zerging build and think they can just gank in a group.** At absolute worst, they show up in your squad and ask for participation as a "scout". > The ones with any actual skill tend to move on to solo roaming in order to make their montage videos. > Now days when I tag up I put all the players who I think are going to be dead weight into the bottom group until they prove otherwise. There is zero value putting a player on a line that gets stab when they are never there to gt the boon. Longbow Rangers, minionmancer Necros and Theives all go into this party by default. > > This has ZERO to do with the class. It has nothing to do with balance. It's not on Arenanet in the slightest. > You want your class to be accepted into a zerg warmly? > Show up on a build that provides some real value and stay on tag. > Most Thieves just don't. r/thathappened - Most squads and blobs have support and core comp people spreading out and it's usually us floaters who roll them back up and interrupt them getting stomped. - Of course they don't want to use faceplant builds and they're more useful to you tethered at about 900 distance. - I manage my boons fine, I think you don't actually know what people are doing out there and you're just making stuff up based on a few times of seeing stuff like that while ignoring all the turds in your core needing help.

> @"Infusion.7149" said: > Deadeye is actually in a poor spot right now unless you roam and don't actually PPT whosoever. If you roam you're better off playing PvP casually honestly , but then again if you're playing PvP then you can't just snipe people and expect to win outside deathmatch because capture points are a thing... I feel mostly fine in large fights with Death's Retreat being such a wacky and good skill for positioning and then there's the secondary kit, but I'd rather have something else that could enhance Kneel than Shadow Meld. Snipers Cover also needs to be a little faster and be more of a dome than a small line and maybe allow very slow crouched movement. Snipers Cover could even rip or corrupt boons on contact maybe, I think it would be fair enough since attacks at range in Kneel would still be the same and the moment you go into Kneel everyone throws their circles and whatever on you like a game of Horseshoes. You'll get lit up just for the class icon alone, Kneel paints a targeting site on you and it needs to be able to hang in fight. My take might add some unbalance in smaller fights though.

> @"alcopaul.2156" said: > > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said: > > Limiting to 35 players will never happen. Not unless ANet decides that wvw is dead and wants us to just move to another game that is. > > but the 2-3 additional maps, right? > > all brand new, if you want. They wouldn't bother doing the work for that when it's not really needed and pve maps mostly do alright with lag. Not all blob fights create the same lag rumbles and that might have a little to do with the kind of builds one or more blob is trying to hose down a map with.

> @"Cynz.9437" said: > I have to agree with OP. This was my experience on thief as well. No matter what build i run or how much i contribute i just get laughed at and mobbed by the zergs from my own server. Usually you don't even get chance to do anything - you just get instantly kicked because the truth is, **every other class does everything better** that thief could potentially offer to the zerg. So at the end we are either pigeonholed into roaming which end up in 1000 wvw threads asking to delete thief (yeah, how dare a class that was forced into roaming and build for it actually kill someone) or reroll something else. > > I personally NEVER got trashtalked by the zerg when i played other classes, NO matter how crappy i played. If however Anet support did their job then half of the wvw population from my server would be probably banned given how much i was griefed by them simply for playing thief. Every other class doesn't have fluid ranged positioning with Initiative as a resource pool. Both of my main builds are for covering and I feel way more safe in large fights than the people I'm covering or intercepting for. I do agree in the sense that other class mechanics are designed to be part of a composition while ours are more for securing it from reach or dismantling it from the other side and that dynamic isn't made clear to players by the game and patches and updates haven't deliberately strengthened that aspect for us.

> @"Lithril Ashwalker.6230" said: > First off, Im putting the game down and probably gonna play more and more seldom due to this. This game was to have best at, not best. Due to changes in the class itself it brings hardly anything to a wvw zerg group. I'm belittled, laughed at and have a hard time trying to organize specific things regarding thief...all because everything does it better and the only thing a thief can do is maybe 2 builds that have no place in a zerg or squad comp. To be bullied based off my preferred class and to be shunned is just as bad as politics but in gw2. > > The balance team knows nothing of thief but they make half-kitten changes to a class that always becomes the whipping boy. Bountiful Theft is a laughing joke and only removes a full 25 stack of might but returns it to your allies and yourself with...1 stack, hardly bountiful, the evasive traits are also a joke as 300s and no one is going to take that long cooldown trait. The class is unfortunately literally useless in a group setting outside of PvE. > > I'm done, ill probably log in to help people learn the game but I wont be buying the next expansion or anything from the gemstore again until something gives EVENLY for ALL classes where thief can actually be relevant back to the prior staff pre-nerfs at LEAST. - You can take Rending Shade or Larcenous Strike if you want play boon slot machine for a full stack of Might but you might have to adjust your boon reach with with other steal depending on priority lists and how many each take. Feel it out or wiki it. - You might want to stagger resource pools for deliberate evade instead and maybe steer your traits and skill/utility slots toward opening groups up and then inundating them, even shortbow auto in a choke point and crits landing is good pressure. You can dismantle and open up a Firebrand real quick and that can sometimes cascade and flip a fight because you can't evade forever.

Cloaked in Shadow in Demonheads build is nice for staying in crowds and even if it's not super bursty, it's a decent kill rate to plow through adds. I hover around a generic baseline and flip through build templates that adjust for stuff like traveling with a small group or hanging in a big fight, need a couple sets of gear or more though. You can probably get by being super bursty but I still use Core and Deadeye versions of my wvw build everywhere since some story and expansion stuff can catch you slipping. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaxAwiVlNw4YasN2JOsLbrbA-zVZYBhmDcICGxojY6rM6uSDPt04AEwvtXzEOjA-w Whatever build you use, skills and utilities you should flip around a lot for whatever you're doing and to remember how they feel. Try out some sigils in the spvp lobby and see what feels right for how you move around, I usually like Draining and Absorption (I interrupt a lot though) but Quickness always feels good and sometimes I like to gradually build might from crits instead if I'm funneling groups or peeling around. I'll flip Runes between stuff like Divinity, Pack, or Infiltration and bring Health or Power & Precision (trying to stay capped on crit chance in combat at least) up or down to what I feel like are my Health thresholds of like 17k to 20k to adjust for a utility change (I might want more precision or run speed and a Vulnerability spike) and group sizes or group splits. Think about setting up buffs, debuffs, and control to make an opening to overwhelm when the time is right. With your traits, think about skills or actions you do a lot. You might want a lot to happen whenever you Stealth Attack because you're vibing with those setups or you might be all about the burst in reveal or you might drag and funnel groups to bounce crits around. Just keep tabs on what you find yourself doing along the way. Also think about an easy to use keybind layout without a lot of lift off if you're aiming for efficient kill rate.

> @"Pacificterror.7805" said: > > @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > >Detailed explanation > > > Thanks for that, you've given me a good idea of the kind of things I'd be choosing to do/expected of me, etc. They gave a really good breakdown and reading the maps like that can help you catch up to the kind of action you want. Pick up supply when ever you can. You can probably do mostly what you do in pve maps and events and do alright. Support groups and squads and you can pick up the odds and ends along the way in buff range when you feel big fights happening. You'll get exploded sometimes because some people fine tune their builds for clutch plays, it just happens sometimes. Maybe reserve a build template to pack with stuff to handle some of that and mess around with it over time.

> @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > - Stealthing for map travel, it's fair. You're at no more disadvantage than anyone else. > > - Stealthing for build use, it's fair. You're strength is in picking a fight and dismantling until an opportunity opens up for a quick stealthed position Stealth Attack and Stealth Attacks are designed for that window. > > - Stealth travel is a build choice with it's ups and downs. have a few build templates. Two of mine are almost identical except for a couple of small changes. > > - You're probably just trying to watch the world burn with a thread like this so good luck and have fun. > > Going to guess you main thief? As can counter those: > > * Stealthing for map travel is not fair, as you are literally invisible > * Stealthing for build use can turn unfair very quickly as reveal options are limited and gimmicky at best > * Stealth travel doesn't have enough tradeoffs, and the fact you have build choice puts you above a lot of other classes already who are stuck at only one build > > My solution would be to reduce/remove the passive marking, and make active reveal way more prevalent. No one would want this as it means thieves couldn't leave spawn as every class would be able to reveal you at any time, on demand. To a point you can already do this with traps, but those aren't very effective in a fight unless you already outnumber--so my 'active reveal' would come in the form of more utility skills being able to reveal. Re-read the OP and argue with them if you want, then re-read my response. I do main thief, and I would be in favor of deliberate skill use over passive poorly aimed balance measures.

> @"SweetPotato.7456" said: > Obviously, you do not know the desert map very well because you do not know how to "fast travel" on the Desert Map. > Fast travel on desert map is very well designed, you have to maintain the shrines to access the fast travel. If you do not know the map works, you got to learn it. not try to make changes to it because you don't know how to travel on it. > I like Desert and play on there when I feel like there might be something to do but most of the time there's no response or interest. Those fast travel tools would be nice but you'll spend all of your time doing house keeping work to be able to use anything because no one else is. Also there's no fast travel to run groups and squads into each other in a place like the ruins which would be one of the more fun places to fight if anyone would go there. Since WvW isn't open world and there's no reason to even look at most of the map on any map really, any extended amount of time trying to get back to a fight or to initiate one is going to change your mood about that map. Since WvW isn't open world, there's nothing else to do on the map except to pick a fight and currently on Desert there are no lanes to bring the three sides into a fun area to maintain a fight or a front for a good length of time.

I don't have an order, I fish for the one I want to set up something with in group fights, and I might sit on one for a long time if there's no need to use it yet. The Fear is maybe the one I search for the most. It's fast and on top of multiple targets feared, it's possibly multiple interrupts for a lot of life leech if you have that. I also like to grab a fear and port behind a group or flanking a choke point or something to scramble a few at the right time. I like to fish for Essence Sap when I want to mess with a squad or group drivers pocket support before trying to pull or spread out a few before hitting someone for a take down. Usually that Essence Sap can quietly cause a cascade. Throw Gunk is awesome, it lands where you want pretty easily and you can blast it or shoot or whirl for confusion. I Steal for Confusion also and like to time a small stack sometimes.