Picking between a Guardian and Revenant

[Lytro.9305]

Hey guys, I'm currently trying to decide on a heavy class to main. I enjoy the idea of being a magical heavy armor wearing fighter but can't decide between a guardian or revenant. I'm looking for something that can be good in pve, pvp, and wvw. Also the aesthetics of the class is a major bonus, though subjective, and the ability to rp the class. I was also wondering when comparing the dragonhunter's longbow to the renegade's shortbow, which is better? I know this is a lot to think about, but I truly appreciate the help in this.

[Frostwolve.2916]

Guardian all the Way. Both bows suck compared to their Melee weapons. Revs short bow is condition heavy. Guardians aa on bow seems slow to me. Pve I'm gonna say they are about equal, pvp I can't testify to, wvw guard is on another level of usefulness.

[Ojimaru.8970]

> comparing the dragonhunter's longbow to the renegade's shortbow, which is better?

 

Define "better." Better damage? Better available skins? Better legendaries?

[Lytro.9305]

> @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> > comparing the dragonhunter's longbow to the renegade's shortbow, which is better?

>

> Define "better." Better damage? Better available skins? Better legendaries?

 

Better as in viability, like if I want to use one in a build is it actually useful or is there another weapon that does it better?

[Ojimaru.8970]

> @Lytro.9305 said:

> > @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> > > comparing the dragonhunter's longbow to the renegade's shortbow, which is better?

> >

> > Define "better." Better damage? Better available skins? Better legendaries?

>

> Better as in viability, like if I want to use one in a build is it actually useful or is there another weapon that does it better?

 

Going to sound like a broken record, but define "viability."

 

* Are either viable in open world PVE? Yes, the damage and kiting potential of with weapon is fine, and HoT and PoF have enemies that are more vulnerable from ranged weapons.

* Are either viable in casual dungeon runs, raids, and Fractals? Yes, if you aren't concerned about chasing DPS meters.

* Are either viable in PvP and WvW? Yes, both weapons have uses.

* Are either viable for meta-centric groups in PVE? No, because the scepter is the superior ranged weapon for Guardians, while the Revenant's Mace or Sword will output more DPS.

[Lytro.9305]

> @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> > @Lytro.9305 said:

> > > @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> > > > comparing the dragonhunter's longbow to the renegade's shortbow, which is better?

> > >

> > > Define "better." Better damage? Better available skins? Better legendaries?

> >

> > Better as in viability, like if I want to use one in a build is it actually useful or is there another weapon that does it better?

>

> Going to sound like a broken record, but define "viability."

>

> * Are either viable in open world PVE? Yes, the damage and kiting potential of with weapon is fine, and HoT and PoF have enemies that are more vulnerable from ranged weapons.

> * Are either viable in casual dungeon runs, raids, and Fractals? Yes, if you aren't concerned about chasing DPS meters.

> * Are either viable in PvP and WvW? Yes, both weapons have uses.

> * Are either viable for meta-centric groups in PVE? No, because the scepter is the superior ranged weapon for Guardians, while the Revenant's Mace or Sword will output more DPS.

 

It's alright, broken records don't always sound bad haha. You pretty much summed up a good idea between gamemodes, Guardian is looking a little better with still having ranged weapons in meta groups. Is the dps that much lower compared between the 2? In addition to that, is the dps of the longbow and renegade's shortbow sufficient enough for raiding and high level content without being forced into meta builds?

[Ojimaru.8970]

I can't speak for the Dragonhunter's bow but the difference between the Renegade's short bow and melee is stark. On a stationary target (Old Tom) and only Druid buffs, I clocked about 15k DPS; with short bow (against Gladiator), I was struggling to reach 7k. While you can likely expect slightly better performance on large hotbox targets, I doubt it would rival melee. Maybe there's a way for the Dragonhunter to excel with the bow, but consider that their traps are point-blank range and contribute a significant portion of DPS.

 

Here's my advise: make your dragonhunter, and go get a feel for it. Take a meta build, understand it, then tweak it to suit your needs.

[starlinvf.1358]

Before getting into anything else.... are you looking for Heavy because thematics, or is because you think its tank class? GW2 breaks a lot of the Trinity conventions, to the point where our game's primary tank is the Support Mage (Chrono Tank). Because of this subversion in their class designs, you're better first considering what Playstyle, difficulty level, and type of utility you want to have, and what game mode you want to take part in, and using that to determine what class to run.

Also note that leveling in this game is orders of magnitude faster then most games; with level 80 taking around 3-6 weeks for new players who level naturally, a week for assisted leveling, and about 90 seconds for people with a pile of Tomes of Knowledge. This game is extremely Alt friendly, so you'll want to keep in mind and take advantage of that as try to find your favorite set ups.

 

To address game modes, again it depends on your favored play style. But of the 2 listed, Guardian being an in-line support class makes it easier to adapt to most game modes; and is in high demand for PvP/WvW if you kit right. But because of this, you're also the most targeted class for Counter builds, and exploited for your weaker ranged combat. The difference between Core Guardian, Dragon Hunter and Firebrand are positively astounding. Core has some moderately strong trait combinations for Bunkering and AOE support, but have limited offensive capability unless you trait specifically for it. Dragon Hunter is a mostly offensive class, and addresses most of your ranged limitations by turning your Virtue skills into anti-range defense and gap closers. Firebrand turns you into a one-man support monster; vulnerable on its own, but force multiplies a group by nearly a factor of 4.

 

The next issue is the mind set of "High level content"..... Again, because the game doesn't follow conventions, the game's meta operates on its own terms. Some classes are in high demand, other not..... some even excluded because of preconceived notions of the community. While there is recommended set of meta builds to follow- most players are so bad at playing them, that its actually confounding as to why it always turns into a big argument of optimal performance. That said.... there are classes and configurations that won't work in given situations, despite being "meta" in the eyes of the community; and at the same time there are off-meta or original builds that people do run to try and find more "optimal" pathways to better performance. Its just harder to accomplish, because the community puts so much stock in spreadsheet math and ideal scenarios. As you get better at the game, you start to become more aware of build synergy.... but without that, the meta builds don't do you any good, because you don't understand why you're doing it. But with that awareness, you take a build concept and tweak it to address specific problems you encounter as you play. For instance, Raids and WvW can easily run with non-meta team comps, so long as you are capable of covering deficiencies. Some are done through strategy, others by role substitution; but the higher skilled the players are, the less they need others to pick up the slack. Theres been 10-man raids done by as little as 3 people in some cases, and a few who can solo certain ones... and thats WITH rage timers in the mix.

 

So with all that in mind.... your first order of business is to learn baseline mechanics and game flow first. The core game regions are face roll easy, as they ask you to use things like dodging, timing defenses, skill combos, and positioning, but don't really punish you for screwing it up. That changes massively for any content that came post-launch.... Fractals will test you on mechanical challenges, Heart of Thorns will push you on build competency and reaction time, while Path of Fire applies massive pressure to promote endurance battles over skill bursting, while Raids focus heavily on group comp and DPS output. Its not that its necessarily harder (either mechanically or on statistical scales), but they demand different player behaviors in order to survive them. For instance.. I've seen complaints about PoF being too hard because of condi pressure from Mobs.... but the only reason thats really a problem is because most builds outside of WvW aren't setup to defend against condition damage. So its not surprising that the thing they're not good at dealing with is the thing thats killing them. But the builds that have easy access to condi clearing (like Guardians) have zero issue with it, until they started dropping traits/skills that made up their sustain. For instance, the Firebrand mantras can't keep pace with incoming damage when running solo, as they're not made for self sustain. But if you swap back in the Meditation skills, condi clearing and self healing, their survivability shoots back up... and thats while still running Firebrand traits.

 

That intelligent mix and match approach to buildcraft is what you want to develop over time. Knowing what skills and traits to mix for best impact, and shifting your functionality to the areas where they need to be strongest for a particular type of fight. The meta builds are tools.... but they aren't an answer to life's problems.

[Mercurias.1826]

That is a lot of words and very well thought out, Starlinvf. My way is dumber, but I like it.

 

**Guardians have:**

-Virtues as a mechanic. They’re passive, steady AoE buffs that can be triggered for a stronger buff, but you lose the passively until it recharges.

-A Paladin Aesthetic

-Medium damage

-High survival

-Low mobility

-Poor long (900+) range. Melee oriented.

-A High burst Power DPS Spec and a powerful Support/Condition Spec.

-Greatest strengths: Can be a potent combination of damage, survival, and support.

-Greatest weaknesses: Long recharge on utilities. Spirit weapons are underwhelming.

 

**Revenants have:**

-Energy and Legendary Stances as a mechanic. Your stance determines your utilities. Energy is requires to use your skills and recharges in battle at speeds that vary by usage.

-An otherworldly Aesthetic

-High damage

-Medium Survivability

-High mobility (though you have to build for it).

-Solid long Ranged Combat with their hammers.

-A powerful buffing/defense spec and a condition/offense spec in need of a few tweaks.

-Greatest strengths: Jack of all trades skills with an Aggressive playstyle.

-Greatest weaknesses: Limited build variations compared to other classes. Very small weapon selection compared to other heavy classes.

[serow.6524]

> @Lytro.9305 said:

> and the ability to rp the class.

 

Guardian is easier to RP. Everyone is familiar with the "Paladin" archetype and "Power of faith". Drawing your power from your faith (all good and light, all bad and dark, somewhere in between) is a very common trope that even beginners should have no problems with. You may consider adding some "consequences" if you do not follow through, but that can be left for later when you have developed a better feel for your character.

 

Revenants are harder to RP. You have to RP your character, your Legend (their personalities are fixed to some extent, unless you want to invent a custom Legend), and your Legend-influenced character. It wouldn't be as interesting if you can just ignore their influence every time. RP-ing a conflict with your Legend can also be very fun!

[Mercurias.1826]

> @serow.6524 said:

> Revenants are harder to RP. You have to RP your character, your Legend (their personalities are fixed to some extent, unless you want to invent a custom Legend), and your Legend-influenced character. It wouldn't be as interesting if you can just ignore their influence every time. RP-ing a conflict with your Legend can also be very fun!

 

My own Revenant tends to outwardly downplay the voices of his Legends when interacting with others. Instead, he has an internal dialogue where others have an internal monologue. He also gives small nonverbal cues when he’s listening to what a legend is saying into his head.

[Mako.4137]

I _like_ playing as a rev, but Guardian is almost better in every way. Anet really needs to fix up Rev because it feels like its still in beta. Theme wise I prefer it, and its what drew me to the class, but its nowhere near as polished as Guardian.

[Neage.3579]

Guardian is worlds more polished than Rev... I prefer my Guardian over Rev any day.

[Aninika.6819]

Guardian is much more desirable in all game modes than Rev (guardian is one of the highest dps classes on both of its elite specs while Rev has one optimal build for dps in PvE). But both have their spots in WvW. Rev is far more challenging in PvP but quite rewarding once you get the hang of it. Rev is a lot more fun to play imho than guardian (I went from my main being Guardian to Rev), however, Guardian is a lot easier to pick up and play while Rev can be challenging in all game types (I always find it rewarding though). Guardian feels more polished as the class has been around for over five years and Rev is still clunky, missing underwater legends, and has quite a few bugs, and it is also only a little over two years old. Guardian is quite slow and Rev is fast. I'd touch on lb vs sb but a lot of other people already touched on it and I have nothing to add.

 

Tldr: if you want a class that will be accepted in everything, play a Guardian. If you want a class that's challenging (but rewarding) and not always welcomed, play Rev (don't let this deter you though, I main a Rev in all game modes/types except raids and have no issues).

[GuardianofRoin.8160]

For the Revenant RP wise, I can see someone playing it sort of as Piccolo from DBZA where the legends would talk to him from inside his own mind. Often you'd hear things like "SHUT UP Shiro! " just out of the blue because of the internal dialogue. That makes it interesting and potentially funny. Glint would be a doting mother figure, dwarf would be the sorta fun uncle who enjoys getting drunk but cares about you. Ventari is the hippy pacifist who hates how you're using a staff to hit things, Shiro is a bit of the jerk older sibling, and demon is just the sociopathic cousin who your family sheltered after he ran away from home when the cats in his neighborhood all disappeared.