SeTect.5918 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Heyy, anyone knows how many points of toughness decrease the taken damage by 1%? Or is it any other like: x devided by toughness = damage? I didnt find any website that helped me and would be happy about any helpful answer. Well if the basic of armor is 2000, 20 toughness should increase the max armor by 1% but i also dont know how many armor decreases the damage by how much. Thank you and have a great day all :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Not sure about the raw values but the quorum seems to be that beyond 3K armor the diminishing returns makes extra thoughness not very useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 In the basic sense: Yes. Because you can think of it like this: Damage taken/armor = dmg unit This scales linear, it's just your starting point that is different based on profession. Then comes crit dmg, which only applies on crit: dmg unit * crit dmg = final dmg This essentially negates some of your armor. If you are lazy like me you can simply think 500 tough/armor = +20% dmg reduction to your base value and scale it from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 From the [wiki](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage): Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor) Armour is Defense plus Toughness (So, the base value for level 80 armour is: 1924 for Light armour classes, 2069 for Medium armour classes, 2217 for Heavy armour classes and 1917 for Berserker during Berserk (I.e with 300 less Toughness as base toughness is 1000)) So, an example: An Exotic Greatsword (995-1100 damage) * 2000 Power * 1.0 skill coeficient / 2069 medium armour = 1012 damage Adding say, 100 toughness making that 2169 armour = 965 damage Making it equate to approximately 5% damage reduction (Thus can extrapolate 20 toughness = 1% damage reduction) Checking with 500 toughness so 2569 armour = 815 damage Approximately 20% damage reduction (So in this case you can extrapolate 25 toughness = 1% damage reduction) Thus, there are diminishing returns so it's not possible to state X Toughness = 1% damage reduction. However, depending on your current armour levels, you can figure out about how much toughness it will take to gain an extra 1% damage reduction (With little to no toughness, it will be about 20 toughness for 1% damage reduction. While at around 1000 toughness, it takes about 30 toughness for 1% damage reduction) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeTect.5918 Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > From the [wiki](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage): > > Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor) > > Armour is Defense plus Toughness (So, the base value for level 80 armour is: 1924 for Light armour classes, 2069 for Medium armour classes, 2217 for Heavy armour classes and 1917 for Berserker during Berserk (I.e with 300 less Toughness as base toughness is 1000)) > > So, an example: > > An Exotic Greatsword (995-1100 damage) * 2000 Power * 1.0 skill coeficient / 2069 medium armour = 1012 damage > > Adding say, 100 toughness making that 2169 armour = 965 damage > > Making it equate to approximately 5% damage reduction (Thus can extrapolate 20 toughness = 1% damage reduction) > > Checking with 500 toughness so 2569 armour = 815 damage > > Approximately 20% damage reduction (So in this case you can extrapolate 25 toughness = 1% damage reduction) > > Thus, there are diminishing returns so it's not possible to state X Toughness = 1% damage reduction. > > However, depending on your current armour levels, you can figure out about how much toughness it will take to gain an extra 1% damage reduction (With little to no toughness, it will be about 20 toughness for 1% damage reduction. While at around 1000 toughness, it takes about 30 toughness for 1% damage reduction) Thank you very much ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostSpectre.4198 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1000 toughness = 100% damage received. 2000 toughness = 50% damage received. 3000 toughness = 33% damage received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannelore.8153 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I find it confusing that people say its "impossible" to calculate how much damage reduction armor gives. Yes,, the calculation is relative to the enemy's Power level (multiplied by crits, etc.), but 3k armor will *always* be 1/3rd of the hit you'd take with 1k armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 The complicated formula from the wiki can be ignored. Base Armor / Geared Armor - 1 That's it! Example: Light Armor Class in Full Ascended Soldier Gear 1967 Base Armor 2927 Geared Armor (Soldier gives 960 Toughness) 1967 / 2927 - 1 = -0,33 = 33% damage reduction This example shows how valuable the Protection boon is. It grants a 33% damage reduction as well and so compensates a lot of Toughness. Protection on top of the Soldier example above leads to a 55% damage reduction as the latter does not add but multiply: 0,67 x 0,67 - 1 = -0,55 = 55% damage reduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raveparade.7582 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 So now we have mentions that 3000 **Toughness** = 33% damage received. And that 3000 **Armor** = 33% damage reduction. And that 3000 **Armor** = 1/3rd of a hit = 33% damage received. :astonished: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 > @"raveparade.7582" said: > So now we have mentions that 3000 **Toughness** = 33% damage received. That's nonsense. Even for a heavy armor character the ascended base armor is 2271. Add 3000 toughness and you are at 5271 armor which is a damage reduction of 57% (43% damage received). > And that 3000 **Armor** = 33% damage reduction. That's right when the base armor is exactly 2000. > And that 3000 **Armor** = 1/3rd of a hit = 33% damage received. That's nonsense. For that the lowest base armor would have to be 1000, which is only the case if you compare a naked character without any armor equipped (which is possible but absurd - and it ignores the differentiation between armor and toughness) with a character with 3000 armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raveparade.7582 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 @"KrHome.1920" thanks for clearing that up, is there as mentioned diminishing returns above 3000 armor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > The complicated formula from the wiki can be ignored. > > Base Armor / Geared Armor - 1 > > That's it! > > Example: > Light Armor Class in Full Ascended Soldier Gear > > 1967 Base Armor > 2927 Geared Armor (Soldier gives 960 Toughness) > > 1967 / 2927 - 1 = -0,33 = 33% damage reduction > > This example shows how valuable the Protection boon is. It grants a 33% damage reduction as well and so compensates a lot of Toughness. > > Protection on top of the Soldier example above leads to a 55% damage reduction as the latter does not add but multiply: > > 0,67 x 0,67 - 1 = -0,55 = 55% damage reduction I don’t understand what you are. Calculating here. The Formular for dmg taken is: Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor) To simplify it: Dmg done = Dmg/Armor That means if the base armor is 2000 armor you will take 100% dmg from the incoming attack. Simple three-sentence: Base Armor = 100% dmg taken X Armor = X% dmg taken => ( X Armor / Base Armor ) * 100% = X% dmg taken Now we want to know how many armor I need to build up to gain 1% dmg reduction (oh wonder it will be 20)...: ( 20 Armor / 2000 Armor ) * 100% = 1% - taril.8619 Already made a perfect post about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redpawa.4108 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 taril.8619 explained the calculations perfectly An addition to make however is that effective health, how much it takes to kill you, scales linearly with both toughness and vitality example with 20 000 health. 2000 armor = 40 000 Effective HP 3000 armor = 60 000 Effective HP 4000 armor = 80 000 Effective HP It is important to remember this so you don't discount investing defensive attributes, at least outside of PvE. This is also why investing in defensive attributes is skewed to classes with %life heals, Necromancer, & Guardian to an extent, as effective HP can quickly become multiple times that of players who have no defensive attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"Senqu.8054" said: > taril.8619 Already made a perfect post about it No he did not. He wrote an essay about the game's damage calculation, which was detailed but did not answer the question (at best he gave some examples). The OP wanted to know the impact of additional toughness and the answer can be given with the simple formula I posted above. "armor of the current build" / "armor of the target build with additional toughness" - 1 Weapon strength is irrelevant. The damage calculation is irrelevant. Distinguishing between critical hits and non critical hits is is irrelevant. ... If you really want to understand how the game works, then you should actually understand what is relevant and what is not. And nobody who is a smart person and who wants to know how much lower incoming damage he can expect from additional toughness will start to mess around with the damage formula, because 90% of what it does is irrelevant for the question. > 2000 armor = 40 000 Effective HP > 3000 armor = 60 000 Effective HP > 4000 armor = 80 000 Effective HP That's also nonsense. It ignores that condi damage ignores armor and it ignores that toughness is an indirect healing effect buff (less incoming damage = more value of your heals) which vitality (that also increases your "effective health") is not. You can not calculate "effective health" out of toughness. Toughness is not the same as vitality. It's better against direct damage and worse against condi damage. And against hybrid damage it is a mix of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > taril.8619 Already made a perfect post about it > No he did not. He wrote an essay about the game's damage calculation, which was detailed but did not answer the question (at best he gave some examples). > > The OP wanted to know the impact of additional toughness and the answer can be given with the simple formula I posted above. > > "armor of the current build" / "armor of the target build with additional toughness" - 1 Now I see your mistake. You don’t say that 100% of the incoming dmg is taken by the old armor value, you count the new armor value as 100% dmg taken. It’s the other way around: „armor of the target build with additional toughness" / "armor of the current build" - 1 But as I already wrote, if you want to know how many dmg reduction you get from X toughness you can also just calculate it like that: (additional toughness / Base Armor ) * 100% = x% dmg reduction => the old armor value is the base, not the new one - Or you go by this logic: If dmg take = DMG/Armor and DMG=1 For Armor = 2: dmg take = 0.5 For Armor = 3: dmg take = 0.33 But this is false since we have to take in consideration that a character has base armor... > Weapon strength is irrelevant. > The damage calculation is irrelevant. > Distinguishing between critical hits and non critical hits is is irrelevant. > ... I never wrote that some of these aspects are relevant, where did you get that from??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumikki.1725 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > It ignores that condi damage ignores armor and it ignores that toughness is an indirect healing effect buff (less incoming damage = more value of your heals) which vitality (that also increases your "effective health") is not. You can not calculate "effective health" out of toughness. Toughness is not the same as vitality. It's better against direct damage and worse against condi damage. And against hybrid damage it is a mix of both. One thing, could also afffect decission making. What enemies does direct damage and what condi damage. Because if "all" dangerous enemies does condi damage, then vitalty is better than toughness. I mean why to reduce damage from something what isn't even dangerous. Basicly asking question, what damage type does usually kill my character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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