Scourge and PVE Support

[Zefiris.8297]

I would like to ask what, precisely, our intended support *for PVE* is.

 

Looking at our abilities, I can make out the following areas where we offer support:

* Barrier

* Might Stacking

* Condition Cleansing

* Boon destruction

 

We also, like all Necromancers, have the option to spec into blood, for an ability that can ressurect fallen allies and/or heal them.

 

I've actually tried these.

 

_Might Stacking_ feels very weak. The reason is the range of the might effect. Blood is Power has a range of 240, as does Oppressive Collapse, and Dessicate has 300. For comparison, Phalanx Strength has **twice** the radius, at 600. This has a pretty negative effect, because the small radius is very unforgiving. People rarely are this stacked even in raids. Only Abrasive Gift has bigger range, if coupled with Sand Savant, but this means giving up a large part of our DPS, and grants little might overall.

It is still possible to stack 25 might, but it is much harder to do than a Phalanx Strength warrior, while also lacking the damage utility such a warrior brings, **as well as lacking the support warrior's dps**

 

 

_Condition Cleansing_ is very powerful in PvP, but much weaker in PvE, because there are few encounters where the group is _both_ affected by conditions _and_ stacked close enough together (sand savant helps her, but only to a point). I can actually think of more raid bosses where this kind of support is relevant than regular out-of-raid fights. Matthias and Sloth seem to be the best examples here. Matthias probably offers the best application for this ability in the game. But overall, it's still rarely useful.

 

 

_Boon Destruction_ is also very powerful in PvP, but the PvE applications are incredibly limited. Worse, core necromancer already offers strong boon corruption. For PVE, the additional boon corruption Scourge brings is superflous. I have not found a good use for this outside specific fractals, and those can just be handled without a scourge with little difference in overall result.

 

 

This leaves _barrier_ and ressurecting fallen allies. I'm putting these together, because they are very closely related. Barrier protects against predictable spike damage, and our F4 picks up those that barrier didn't save. It also heals, albeit for much less than a druid. These two are both **the most effective** PVE support I could find, **and the least wanted**. It scales inversely with the quality and experience of the group. What I mean is, the better the group, the less useful this is. It becomes a non-factor in experienced groups, even pugs. Other support is the exact opposite. A druid's GOTL/Spirit/Spotter or a Chrono's Alacrity/Quickness becomes **more** effective the better the group gets.

 

[Edit: HUGE caveat here. Agony is frequently applied in fractals, and affects our Barrier application to the point of barriers being neglectable. A random agony means our support doesn't work at all. Imagine if Agony would nerf a Chrono's Alacrity or a warrior's empower allies/banner/might generation. It's a big blow to support. ]

 

 

 

So, yes: An 1-1-1 build can combine every support I listed here, at the cost of almost all DPS. My problem is that I do not see this being enough to merit a group spot, nor enough to make people want a scourge.

 

So what is the design intent here? Is scourge designed as a "beginner" build, so to speak - there to help with struggling groups, who can then transition to other, more powerful classes? Or is there other aspects of support that I've missed? I'd honestly love some insight there - it would be a huge boon to know what we are designed _for_ in PVE.

[Dadnir.5038]

Well yeah... that was pointed out and discussed a lot when we saw scourge preview. This always ended up by: "In the end, if scourge want a place in raid he will need a high dps, because it's support won't be needed, he got nothing to replace the 3 pilars and that leave dps."

[Zefiris.8297]

For sure, but it's better to actually see this in practice. Theory only gets one so far.

 

Really, my biggest concern is that Scourge is one of the few support specs in the game that gets worse as the group improves. Other support specs were granted various abilities that ensure they scale the group up in effectiveness regardless of the overall skill level (such as GOTL, Alacrity, Quickness, Spirits, spotter...), while we plateau early and never recover.

 

In PVP, this is not an issue, because the enemy raises in skill just like you do, meaning the overall danger to you is the same, but in PVE; as you gain experience, content becomes easier, and after some point, Scourge just doesn't seem to offer much.

 

 

And that just can't be the intended design, right? That can't be heavy support.