Warrior Balance Requests Omnibus

[DKRathalos.9625]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Tycura.1982" said:

> > Outrage gains 3 seconds of resistance while getting upped to a 30 second CD

> Interesting.

I TOTALLY Forgot mentioning this, outrage is just.... weird. You have to break stun in order to fully benefit from it extend 5 secs of zerkmode, but just that? In case we play wvw breaking stun then nothing you still can be CCed for the next 5 seconds which negate the extend duration. I feel like zerker need some good related elite spec utility for wvw purpose.

 

Like let's talk about 6-0 skill healing utility and elite

Firebrand: the meta on wvw consist of 3 related elite spec mantra (1 healing, 1 condi clear, 1 elite stab)

Scourge: 3 Punishment (1 healing, 1 trail of anguish, 1 elite ghastly breach)

Scrapper: 3 Gyro (Barrier, Cleanse and Sneak)

Revenant: well revenant is a set so using herald automatically set the skill.

 

If we play Berserker? At best the related spec skill we use is the healing one to refresh burst and deal more burst damage in short time. The other utility slot and elite is filled with core related stuffs. (note that this is from zerging standpoint)

[Vancho.8750]

Sundering leap and Stomp should have longer range like 800 or more, the Diablo barbarian dream.

Sundering leap needs something, but all Berserker skills need something since they are just like the physical skills but worse.

Almost forgot Signet of rage is garbage, in pvp it gives 6 seconds of fury swiftness and might, like wtf, it needs total rework.

[Virtuality.8351]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> **Skills**

> * Banners: Update these to mount onto the warrior's back, update the skins if appropriate for visual cleanliness/fashion sense. Battle Standard also mounts on the warrior's back, but provides a flip over skill to rez/finish causing the banner effect to end. To summarize, banners are summoned onto the warrior's back, provide their usual benefits, and in the case of Battle Standard, it is summoned, provides buffs as normal, but the rez/finish effect is on a flipover skill that subsequently banishes the banner.

 

YES PLEASE! GIVE US STANDARD BEARERE!

 

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

Flavor wise I'd rather see mace 5 be more of an aoe cone in front of you I'm thinking range somewhere between 450-900, I'd also think that you'd have a better chance of hitting with it if it were a cone.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Okay, so an update to what has been discussed, and where agreement exists, and where things need to be focused on next.

 

**“Fear Me!”:** The duration of this skill is prohibitively long to see use in competitive play. It is recommended to be reduced to 45s CD.

 

**Staggering Blow: ** Change this skill to be an evasive side step that then knockbacks foes within 150 range. If interrupted targets are slowed for 3s. This grants a small amount of sustain to Hammer, which is something that the weapon currently lacks in over other choices.

 

**Hundred Blades:** Recommended to either remove the self root, or reduce the channel time to 2.5s.

 

**Mace AA chain:** This AA chain over all is overly slow to execute for the benefit it provides. Hammer, a 2H weapon that hits harder has a faster AA chain. It is recommended to reduce the overall cast time of this chain.

 

**Tremor:** The overall sentiment is that this should be a cone AoE much like Hammer Shock with a knockdown effect at 600 range.

 

**Skull Crack:** Add in a small leap to 300 range, like Skull Grinder. The current range is ineffective.

**Sword:** Something that has been mentioned several times is to swap the places of Flurry and Final Thrust so that FT is the burst and not Flurry. This may be a better idea, although 3 questions remain:

1) How would Final Thrust scale with adrenaline level?

I recommend the current FT be T2 with T1 being a 50% increase in damage rather than 100%, with 4 stacks of bleed. T3 would be a 150% increase in damage with 8 stacks of bleed.

2) What tier of Flurry is moved to slot 3?

I suggest T1, 9 strikes, 9 stacks of bleed, 15s CD, each strike inflicts 1/4s immobilize rather than one large stack on the first hit.

3) Will Flurry remain a self root, or have its cast time reduced?

Either remove the self root, reduce the cast time to 2s, or make it multiple stacks of immobilize.

 

**Riposte:** There are several suggestions ranging from block all attacks for the 2s animation with a flip over for the damage effect, to keeping the same skill but with an evade during the attack.

**Asking here for an overall choice from you all.**

 

**Cleansing Ire, Berserker’s Power:** Make both of these activate based on Adrenaline Spent, not upon striking a foe. This adds versatility to the warrior and provides more utility.

 

**Rifle:** Rework the weapon ranges to function as medium-short range cone AoEs so that Rifle functions more as a shotgun. There is more agreement on keeping the base function of the skills, but more of a mismatch on range increments. I am suggesting a flat 600 range on all for the sake of simplicity. An easy change is more likely to become reality,.

This would necessitate a change to the F1 to be more in line with the new theme of the weapon. There are 4 F1s proposed:

**Salt Shot** a 1/4s daze cone AoE with blind and weakness with scaling duration

**Blast Round** a ground targeted AoE with blind and scaling damage

**Tear Gas** an AoE field that pulses blind and torment with scaling duration

**Full Unload** a cone AoE with scaling damage, and scaling cripple, scaling Vunlerability, and Scaling weakness.

**Asking here for an overall choice on a new F1.**

**Asking also for what Crack Shot should do for Rifle with this change as adrenaline gain would be very easy.**

 

**Longbow:**

**Dual Shot:** Add burn per arrow 1s/0.5s (PvE/Comp) by default. This is a condi weapon, it should have condi on the AA by default.

Should Crack Shot be updated for Longbow, or allow it to apply extra burn anyway on the AA or a 33% chance on critical for more?

 

CmC is on record as being OKAY with CCs doing damage so long as you have to take a trait for it. I propose the following:

 

**Body Blow:** This trait no longer causes hard CCs to inflict bleeding. Instead it causes weakness (3s) and deals damage. I suggest a 1.0 scaling, crit is allowed. Damage is applied before the CC so that Merciless Hammer’s damage increase for Hammer vs CCd foes is actually meaningful again. Stability will negate the extra damage and weakness.

 

**Berserk and Rage Skills:**

There is an overall feeling that these on the whole are lacking. Several options have been put forth, but no real consensus on what these skills should do. Proposals have ranged from outright buffs, to changes to functionality, to more of a glyph like system where their effects differ greatly based on whether you are in Berserk Mode or not. Seeing as their main function is to extend Berserk Mode they are coupled with the mechanic so changing one almost certainly requires changing the other.

 

One great proposal in this thread is to update Berserk Mode, to both be manually exited, and also to change how it is up kept in a way similar to Death Shroud.

 

**Berserk:** Add a F2 to exit Berserk Mode. This action consumes all remaining adrenaline. This new skill counts as a T1 burst for traits. Reduce CD of Berserk to 10s. While in Berserk Mode you have 30 Strikes of Adrenaline, Adrenaline decays at the rate of 1 strike per second, Primal Bursts no longer have cooldowns, but consume 10 strikes of adrenaline per use. Once all Adrenaline is consumed you exit Berserk Mode, exiting Berserk Mode due to loss of adrenaline will also count as a T1 Burst for traits. This is a similar functionality to every other mechanic in the game that functions as a mode.

 

The purpose is to grant more control over the mechanic and increase its viability in competitive modes.

 

To account for the change in how Berserk Mode is managed the following changes are recommended:

**Smash Brawler:** Increase the number of adrenaline strikes one can hold by 5 strikes.

**Rage Skills:** Wherever a rage skill increases the duration of Berserk Mode, grant that many strikes of adrenaline instead.

 

I am also suggesting an update to Last Blaze.

 

**Last Blaze:** When you use a Berserker skill set nearby foes on fire and gain 5/2 stacks of might for 5s (PvE/Comp). This adds some more active might generation to the e-spec which is something that it has been lacking. This will also help it’s sustain issues via MMR and MM.

 

**I’m looking to each of you to suggest changes to the Rage Skills that take these proposals into account.**

 

**Some extras on the Berserker**

**Fatal Frenzy:** In addition to lose of Core F1s, not just in Berserk Mode but out of Berserk Mode, Berserker also takes -300 toughness while in Berserk Mode. This is regarded as too steep of a tradeoff when just one of these would have sufficed. It is recommended to reduce the toughness penalty to -150.

 

**Burst of Aggression:** Allow quickness and superspeed to reapply upon hitting with a Primal Burst, or to pulse for the duration of Berserk Mode. The current durations are too small given that Berserk Mode currently cannot be cancelled.

 

These two changes are to stop overly penalizing the Berserker for entering Berserk Mode, and for staying in Berserk Mode too long.

 

**Flames of War:** Allow this skill to remove chill in addition to its current effects. A QoL adjustment that is highly thematic. A reduction in the number of condis cleansed in exchange for the chill would be acceptable for balance.

[Torqiseknite.1380]

Even with a 45 second cooldown, I doubt most warriors would take "fear me!" since there's no room for it in current competitive builds. It's also hard to buff the skill when it scales so much with proximity and number of targets. I think it'd be better to keep it at 60 seconds and make it our elite shout, since there are many situations where having a 600 range unblockable aoe fear would be useful if it didn't compete with our stunbreaks/physicals.

 

To replace it in our utility roster, I suggest removing weakness from "fear me!" (it doesn't make sense to apply weakness when you've already feared the targets away) and adding the following:

 

"You're All Alone!": Weaken and immobilize target foe. Single target shout, 2 seconds of immobilize and 6 seconds of weakness with 2 ammo and 25 second count recharge. This would offer synergy with opportunist in arms and leg specialist in tactics as well as consistent weakness application.

 

Skill reworks for sword and rifle may be asking a bit much from the balance team if they're not trying to shift the class's overall power. Berserker overhaul looks interesting though, here's an idea for the heal:

 

Blood Reckoning: Heal yourself, regain adrenaline, and gain bonus adrenaline when striking a foe. Heal for a percentage of your outgoing damage. Immediately grants 15 adrenaline, with an additional 2 adrenaline on hit (maybe 1 in competitive modes). 33% damage conversion to healing, 5 second duration.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Torqiseknite.1380" said:

> Even with a 45 second cooldown, I doubt most warriors would take "fear me!" since there's no room for it in current competitive builds. It's also hard to buff the skill when it scales so much with proximity and number of targets. I think it'd be better to keep it at 60 seconds and make it our elite shout, since there are many situations where having a 600 range unblockable aoe fear would be useful if it didn't compete with our stunbreaks/physicals.

Fair. We kind of need an elite shout, but would they grant it elite status? 45s traited is 36s. Is a 36s CD not worth taking with an AoE fear?

> To replace it in our utility roster, I suggest removing weakness from "fear me!" (it doesn't make sense to apply weakness when you've already feared the targets away) and adding the following:

>

> "You're All Alone!": Weaken and immobilize target foe. Single target shout, 2 seconds of immobilize and 6 seconds of weakness with 2 ammo and 25 second count recharge. This would offer synergy with opportunist in arms and leg specialist in tactics as well as consistent weakness application.

Sounds like a great skill, but would making Fear Me actually usable be better?

> Skill reworks for sword and rifle may be asking a bit much from the balance team if they're not trying to shift the class's overall power. Berserker overhaul looks interesting though, here's an idea for the heal:

Maybe, but the answer is no unless you ask. That and they aren't super major changes.

> Blood Reckoning: Heal yourself, regain adrenaline, and gain bonus adrenaline when striking a foe. Heal for a percentage of your outgoing damage. Immediately grants 15 adrenaline, with an additional 2 adrenaline on hit (maybe 1 in competitive modes). 33% damage conversion to healing, 5 second duration.

Now that is a good proposal based on the proposed rework of Berserk mode!

 

[Torqiseknite.1380]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Fair. We kind of need an elite shout, but would they grant it elite status? 45s traited is 36s. Is a 36s CD not worth taking with an AoE fear?

I don't think so. The only pvp build that runs tactics is core warrior with strength/tactics/discipline. Bull's charge and shake it off are automatic picks on that build, since nothing really competes with the cc/mobility/evade of bull's and you need the cleanse/stunbreak from shake it off. The last slot is usually occupied by for great justice due to strong synergy with might makes right/mending might. I can't see fear me replacing any of those 3 even if it was on a 36 second cooldown. Tactics spellbreaker is a thing in wvw, but I'm pretty sure the boonball meta is still going strong there so an aoe fear would just get negated by resistance/stability spam.

> Sounds like a great skill, but would making Fear Me actually usable be better?

I'd use it if it was an elite, certainly more impactful than signet of rage. Being able to reliably interrupt glyph of renewal or signet of mercy could also be clutch as seen in the recent mAT.

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Torqiseknite.1380" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > Fair. We kind of need an elite shout, but would they grant it elite status? 45s traited is 36s. Is a 36s CD not worth taking with an AoE fear?

> I don't think so. The only pvp build that runs tactics is core warrior with strength/tactics/discipline. Bull's charge and shake it off are automatic picks on that build, since nothing really competes with the cc/mobility/evade of bull's and you need the cleanse/stunbreak from shake it off. The last slot is usually occupied by for great justice due to strong synergy with might makes right/mending might. I can't see fear me replacing any of those 3 even if it was on a 36 second cooldown. Tactics spellbreaker is a thing in wvw, but I'm pretty sure the boonball meta is still going strong there so an aoe fear would just get negated by resistance/stability spam.

> > Sounds like a great skill, but would making Fear Me actually usable be better?

> I'd use it if it was an elite, certainly more impactful than signet of rage. Being able to reliably interrupt glyph of renewal or signet of mercy could also be clutch as seen in the recent mAT.

>

>

 

Alright. Perhaps Fear Me needs to be on an ammo system like the rest of the utility shouts, 35s between uses with a 60s recharge and 2 charges. Instead of weakness you gain might per foe feared, 2/4 stacks for 10s (PvE/Comp). That way if you fear bomb to max effect you get 20 stacks of might for a decent duration. Less need for FGJ then, and the CD between charges is comparable to BC and makes it an easier choice to bring to a fight.

 

I would say that 20 potential stacks is fine, since you'd have to fear 5 people, some of whom probably have stability on.

[Infusion.7149]

Another thing about berserker spec (besides a way to end it manually at a cost): there should be a way that the 15% attack speed bonus either augments or lengthens quickness. It doesn't stack with the 20% attack speed bonus of dual wielding either.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> Another thing about berserker spec (besides a way to end it manually at a cost): there should be a way that the 15% attack speed bonus either augments or lengthens quickness. It doesn't stack with the 20% attack speed bonus of dual wielding either.

 

Well, one of my recommendations was to either pulse quickness and superspeed for the duration of Berserk or to refresh them when hitting with a Primal Bursts. I highly suspect that IAS effects will not stack, ever. For each of these to stack then you'd have +85% IAS or +69% IAS depending if they stacked additively or multiplicatively. I'm sure there is a minimum frame rate for the skills to activate within, which may be the reason for these not to stack. If quickness and superspeed pulse during Berserk, or refresh upon hitting with a Primal Burst then the +15% from Berserk would no longer be needed and could be removed. Dual Wielding itself needs another benefit at this point. I'd say let it grant boons on a critical hit based on the weapon equipped: Mace -> protection, Axe->fury, Sword -> retaliation, Dagger -> quickness. Make the durations 5s for all game modes, 10s ICD.

[Infusion.7149]

I don't think increased attack speeds will stack, but there still needs to be a value add for Berserkers to make it more attractive over core warrior * let alone spellbreaker (I suspect Tactics with Warrior's Cunning +50% vs targets with barrier in WvW is better than the entire Berserker line , although for PvP the 10% vs barrier is debatable) . Right now you have chronos and firebrands even in WvW putting out quickness on occasion (Liberator's Vow / Stalwart Speed/ Seize the Moment), in addition to whatever quickness you get from axe, Frenzy (more a PvP skill than for WvW or PVE), and Burst of Aggression.

 

* Because you have access to might readily from Strength and Tactics and sustain from Mending Might / Might Makes Right (not a minor trait) in addition to Vigorous Shouts/Phalanx Strength (to proc Mending Might). If you aren't running Strength traitline for whatever reason (which is generally rare), you can use Sigil of Strength to generate might.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> I don't think increased attack speeds will stack, but there still needs to be a value add for Berserkers to make it more attractive over core warrior * let alone spellbreaker (I suspect Tactics with Warrior's Cunning +50% vs targets with barrier in WvW is better than the entire Berserker line , although for PvP the 10% vs barrier is debatable) . Right now you have chronos and firebrands even in WvW putting out quickness on occasion (Liberator's Vow / Stalwart Speed/ Seize the Moment), in addition to whatever quickness you get from axe, Frenzy (more a PvP skill than for WvW or PVE), and Burst of Aggression.

>

> * Because you have access to might readily from Strength and Tactics and sustain from Mending Might / Might Makes Right (not a minor trait) in addition to Vigorous Shouts/Phalanx Strength (to proc Mending Might). If you aren't running Strength traitline for whatever reason (which is generally rare), you can use Sigil of Strength to generate might.

 

Warrior's Cunning is great in WvW that is for sure! Shame they nerfed it in PvP, Warrior might actually be in a better spot if they had not done that.

 

Sigil of Battle for any game mode. Sigil of Strength isn't in PvP. In general you are right though that between Strength and Tactics you get a fair bit of might and healing from that might. The issue is do you take Discipline, Berserker, or Spellbreaker for line 3? Most warriors can't play without Discipline, although I expect that is mostly due to having used it for so long that muscle memory is expecting that immob clear on movement skills and that weapon swap to be ready after 5s.

 

One thing I suggested above is for Last Blaze to cause Berserker Skills to grant might. This would give it sustain via Strength and/or Tactics that is more active than Eternal Champion.

 

 

[wolverine.5164]

Please do not forget about rousing resiliance... is trash,0 it be forgotten completly... what about utilitys? do u know how bad is berseker stance? , shattering blow?, healing signet? shield master 1 sec might?, king of fires only 10% burn duration?... lets just not ingnore everything else...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"wolverine.5164" said:

> Please do not forget about rousing resiliance... is trash,0 it be forgotten completly... what about utilitys? do u know how bad is berseker stance? , shattering blow?, healing signet? shield master 1 sec might?, king of fires only 10% burn duration?... lets just not ingnore everything else...

 

This is a discussion thread to discuss what needs to change. Please feel free to bring suggestions to the discussion. I am purposefully holding back and allow others to bring suggestions up. I can seriously suggest a change for every single weapon, trait, and skill. I do not want this to be a personal wish list, but a community driven effort.

 

As to Rousing Resilience. There is some great interaction with Berserker and Eternal Champion. There is also a Spellbreaker build floating around that makes good use of it, but with Last Stand broken by the devs on purpose and conditions being more prevalent than they were Cleansing Ire is more important of a trait to take. Try RR out with Runes of the Tempest btw, you may like it more then.

[Vancho.8750]

Can we get a fix for the move speed thing on Whirling axe https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Axe, and really hope is not we removed the tooltip kind of deal.

And almost forgot Berserker should have resistance somewhere maybe in Burst of Aggression.

And Shattering Blow should be changed to Rock Guard that would block stuff for longer then now 1 or 2 seconds and then the flip skill to be Shattering Blow.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> Can we get a fix for the move speed thing on Whirling axe https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Axe, and really hope is not we removed the tooltip kind of deal.

 

The best thing for Axe 5 would be to grant 3s of superspeed. Might actually be worth using as an offhand then.

[otto.5684]

Can we get anything but axe/axe to be playable in PvE?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Can we get anything but axe/axe to be playable in PvE?

 

Make suggestions if you have not seen what would do that. I'll be updating the main post tomorrow.

[otto.5684]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > Can we get anything but axe/axe to be playable in PvE?

>

> Make suggestions if you have not seen what would do that. I'll be updating the main post tomorrow.

 

Sure, my suggestions are strictly for PvE.

 

1. GS, AA damage increased by 5%. 100 blades damage is increased by 25%.

2. Arms, sundering burst trait, instead of inflicting vulnerability, burst skills deal 10% more damage to targets with vulnerability.

3. Arms, trait Dual wielding, Instead of attack speed, damage is increased by 10% (maybe 15%).

4. I think you covered sword mostly. I would make sword 3 deal a bit more damage for targets above 50% HP.

5. Discipline, Burst mastery, from 7% to 15%.

6. Dagger AA deal 10% more damage.

7. Dagger burst deal 10% more damage.

8. Dagger 4, increase base damage and lower the damage of against not using skills according, while it staying the same.

9. Dagger 5, reduce CD to 15 sec and Increase damage by 100%.

10. SB, trait sun and moon style, gain 100 power for each dagger equiped.

11. SB, Trait megabane tether, increase the bonus damage from 10% to 15%.

12. LB 1, the fire component is now part of the base weapon instead of requiring trait.

13. LB 2, increase the fire duration from 5 to 8 secs. I would like for this skill to have a way to land all 3 arrows from distance on target. It is a LB after all. Though not sure how can this maintain aoe capability.

14. LB 5, CD reduced to 15 secs from 25.

 

I know the numbers might be off. The LB surely pushes condi berserker pretty high. So some shaves will need to be implemented somewhere. Mace could also use some damage increases. I do not have specific suggestions. Between rifle changes you had, dagger, sword and GS buffs, warrior might actually be able to use different weapons in PvE.

 

I would like to see changes to berserker, but honestly, I see it as a lost cause. The changes Anet made increased the damage, but it has terrible flow and consistency, especially outside of grouped PvE. It needs to go back to the drawing board.

 

Unrelated, but from the the part quoting CMC. warrior power level being ideal is Hilarious, considering that warrior deals almost no damage. I guess sPvP is going from bunker mode to no death allowed mode. I really wish they get rid of the CMC dev. GW2 sPvP, for all its issues, was really fun back in the day. I cannot stand this CC, bunker slugfest.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > Can we get anything but axe/axe to be playable in PvE?

> >

> > Make suggestions if you have not seen what would do that. I'll be updating the main post tomorrow.

>

> Sure, my suggestions are strictly for PvE.

>

> 1. GS, AA damage increased by 5%. 100 blades damage is increased by 25%.

> 2. Arms, sundering burst trait, instead of inflicting vulnerability, burst skills deal 10% more damage to targets with vulnerability.

> 3. Arms, trait Dual wielding, Instead of attack speed, damage is increased by 10% (maybe 15%).

> 4. I think you covered sword mostly. I would make sword 3 deal a bit more damage for targets above 50% HP.

> 5. Discipline, Burst mastery, from 7% to 15%.

> 6. Dagger AA deal 10% more damage.

> 7. Dagger burst deal 10% more damage.

> 8. Dagger 4, increase base damage and lower the damage of against not using skills according, while it staying the same.

> 9. Dagger 5, reduce CD to 15 sec and Increase damage by 100%.

> 10. SB, trait sun and moon style, gain 100 power for each dagger equiped.

> 11. SB, Trait megabane tether, increase the bonus damage from 10% to 15%.

> 12. LB 1, the fire component is now part of the base weapon instead of requiring trait.

> 13. LB 2, increase the fire duration from 5 to 8 secs. I would like for this skill to have a way to land all 3 arrows from distance on target. It is a LB after all. Though not sure how can this maintain aoe capability.

> 14. LB 5, CD reduced to 15 secs from 25.

>

> I know the numbers might be off. The LB surely pushes condi berserker pretty high. So some shaves will need to be implemented somewhere. Mace could also use some damage increases. I do not have specific suggestions. Between rifle changes you had, dagger, sword and GS buffs, warrior might actually be able to use different weapons in PvE.

>

> I would like to see changes to berserker, but honestly, I see it as a lost cause. The changes Anet made increased the damage, but it has terrible flow and consistency, especially outside of grouped PvE. It needs to go back to the drawing board.

>

> Unrelated, but from the the part quoting CMC. warrior power level being ideal is Hilarious, considering that warrior deals almost no damage. I guess sPvP is going from bunker mode to no death allowed mode. I really wish they get rid of the CMC dev. GW2 sPvP, for all its issues, was really fun back in the day. I cannot stand this CC, bunker slugfest.

 

Please give reasoning to each of your listed items, and please make them be reasons other than "more DPS please". There are long bow suggestions floating in an old thread that you may like. I'll post a few of them for you later.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Unrelated, but from the the part quoting CMC. warrior power level being ideal is Hilarious, considering that warrior deals almost no damage. I guess sPvP is going from bunker mode to no death allowed mode. I really wish they get rid of the CMC dev. GW2 sPvP, for all its issues, was really fun back in the day. I cannot stand this CC, bunker slugfest.

 

Going slightly off topic here to address this part.

 

Here is the thing with that interpretation of it; he said Warrior is considered "around the ideal power level" and if, from what you're saying, it "deals almost no damage" that is more due to the fact that everything **else** is overtuned as opposed to Warrior's damage being **that** bad.

 

Personally I've still been able to deal damage on Warrior, its just that sort of across the board, even with Spellbreaker, it underperforms compared to other classes which means they are far more ideal to use to fulfill its "role" in either sPvP or WvW. The last couple of days I have done some roaming in WvW and some sPvP and while I have been able to 1vX a couple of times and beat classes like Reaper or otherwise in 1v1s, it definitely feels like an uphill battle when it comes to other classes just from the very beginning of any fight. I definitely understand where Necros were coming from more so now than I already did when they complained about having very little stability because that is where Warrior is right now, and we don't even get the benefits of teleports or a second health bar.

 

We have more endurance regen still, but the moment another player with just one more CC skill comes along you're pretty much done. If you get focused by just two people even in a small scale teamfight, again, you're pretty much dead unless you have someone pulsing enough Stability on you to save your hide. Whereas you still have classes like Holosmith, Scrapper, Soulbeast, Core Ranger, Firebrand, Guardian, and even Reaper and Scourge now have better access to Stability than Warrior does even in solo situations. I'd go into much more detail with this but that is pushing the offtopic too far and I'd rather not derail this thread.

 

Now to my actual feedback on something;

@"Lan Deathrider.5910"

> Defense:

 

>Defy Pain: Defy Pain now provides Spiked Armor (5s) and Protection (5s) when struck below 50% HP and breaks stuns with a CD of 60s.

 

The first bit of this is par for the course, honestly, as it sort of runs in comparison to Emergency Elixir on Engineer. That trait had its invulnerability and passive stunbreak removed.

 

The passive stunbreaking on Last Stand was a big part of why it was unhealthy, how Defy Pain and Last Stand worked with their passive procs were what got them "nullified" in competitive modes in the first place, so we **really** need to steer clear of anything like that. You can't just shift the problem with one trait onto another one and think that it solves what had been an issue with it already. The trait would very much be fine on its own with just the 5s of Protection and 5s of Spiked Armor (Retaliation) when struck below 50% health, the passive stunbreak should inherently be a "no" to include on anything as it was a big part of the issue, I don't think any Warrior here posting and reading this thread should think otherwise. Why do you think Shrug It Off is even used at all? Because often times a CC has a condi attached to it, or a condi will be placed on you while you're CC'd, either accidentally or purposefully, and it will immediately break the CC for you. Granted there is a greater chance of it just getting burned before you ever get CC'd but that doesn't negate its effectiveness and its low 25 second ICD.

[otto.5684]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > Can we get anything but axe/axe to be playable in PvE?

> > >

> > > Make suggestions if you have not seen what would do that. I'll be updating the main post tomorrow.

> >

> > Sure, my suggestions are strictly for PvE.

> >

> > 1. GS, AA damage increased by 5%. 100 blades damage is increased by 25%.

> > 2. Arms, sundering burst trait, instead of inflicting vulnerability, burst skills deal 10% more damage to targets with vulnerability.

> > 3. Arms, trait Dual wielding, Instead of attack speed, damage is increased by 10% (maybe 15%).

> > 4. I think you covered sword mostly. I would make sword 3 deal a bit more damage for targets above 50% HP.

> > 5. Discipline, Burst mastery, from 7% to 15%.

> > 6. Dagger AA deal 10% more damage.

> > 7. Dagger burst deal 10% more damage.

> > 8. Dagger 4, increase base damage and lower the damage of against not using skills according, while it staying the same.

> > 9. Dagger 5, reduce CD to 15 sec and Increase damage by 100%.

> > 10. SB, trait sun and moon style, gain 100 power for each dagger equiped.

> > 11. SB, Trait megabane tether, increase the bonus damage from 10% to 15%.

> > 12. LB 1, the fire component is now part of the base weapon instead of requiring trait.

> > 13. LB 2, increase the fire duration from 5 to 8 secs. I would like for this skill to have a way to land all 3 arrows from distance on target. It is a LB after all. Though not sure how can this maintain aoe capability.

> > 14. LB 5, CD reduced to 15 secs from 25.

> >

> > I know the numbers might be off. The LB surely pushes condi berserker pretty high. So some shaves will need to be implemented somewhere. Mace could also use some damage increases. I do not have specific suggestions. Between rifle changes you had, dagger, sword and GS buffs, warrior might actually be able to use different weapons in PvE.

> >

> > I would like to see changes to berserker, but honestly, I see it as a lost cause. The changes Anet made increased the damage, but it has terrible flow and consistency, especially outside of grouped PvE. It needs to go back to the drawing board.

> >

> > Unrelated, but from the the part quoting CMC. warrior power level being ideal is Hilarious, considering that warrior deals almost no damage. I guess sPvP is going from bunker mode to no death allowed mode. I really wish they get rid of the CMC dev. GW2 sPvP, for all its issues, was really fun back in the day. I cannot stand this CC, bunker slugfest.

>

> Please give reasoning to each of your listed items, and please make them be reasons other than "more DPS please". There are long bow suggestions floating in an old thread that you may like. I'll post a few of them for you later.

 

In pve, what is there other than more dps? I already mentioned that the buffs aim to make weapons, other than axe deal more damage. Also, make arms a useable line outside of condi. Same for SB. And almost all the traits I mentioned are not used at all, even in PvP. Numbers are not precisely tuned, but the goal is as noted.

[otto.5684]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > Unrelated, but from the the part quoting CMC. warrior power level being ideal is Hilarious, considering that warrior deals almost no damage. I guess sPvP is going from bunker mode to no death allowed mode. I really wish they get rid of the CMC dev. GW2 sPvP, for all its issues, was really fun back in the day. I cannot stand this CC, bunker slugfest.

>

> Going slightly off topic here to address this part.

>

> Here is the thing with that interpretation of it; he said Warrior is considered "around the ideal power level" and if, from what you're saying, it "deals almost no damage" that is more due to the fact that everything **else** is overtuned as opposed to Warrior's damage being **that** bad.

>

> Personally I've still been able to deal damage on Warrior, its just that sort of across the board, even with Spellbreaker, it underperforms compared to other classes which means they are far more ideal to use to fulfill its "role" in either sPvP or WvW. The last couple of days I have done some roaming in WvW and some sPvP and while I have been able to 1vX a couple of times and beat classes like Reaper or otherwise in 1v1s, it definitely feels like an uphill battle when it comes to other classes just from the very beginning of any fight. I definitely understand where Necros were coming from more so now than I already did when they complained about having very little stability because that is where Warrior is right now, and we don't even get the benefits of teleports or a second health bar.

>

> We have more endurance regen still, but the moment another player with just one more CC skill comes along you're pretty much done. If you get focused by just two people even in a small scale teamfight, again, you're pretty much dead unless you have someone pulsing enough Stability on you to save your hide. Whereas you still have classes like Holosmith, Scrapper, Soulbeast, Core Ranger, Firebrand, Guardian, and even Reaper and Scourge now have better access to Stability than Warrior does even in solo situations. I'd go into much more detail with this but that is pushing the offtopic too far and I'd rather not derail this thread.

>

> Now to my actual feedback on something;

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910"

> > Defense:

>

> >Defy Pain: Defy Pain now provides Spiked Armor (5s) and Protection (5s) when struck below 50% HP and breaks stuns with a CD of 60s.

>

> The first bit of this is par for the course, honestly, as it sort of runs in comparison to Emergency Elixir on Engineer. That trait had its invulnerability and passive stunbreak removed.

>

> The passive stunbreaking on Last Stand was a big part of why it was unhealthy, how Defy Pain and Last Stand worked with their passive procs were what got them "nullified" in competitive modes in the first place, so we **really** need to steer clear of anything like that. You can't just shift the problem with one trait onto another one and think that it solves what had been an issue with it already. The trait would very much be fine on its own with just the 5s of Protection and 5s of Spiked Armor (Retaliation) when struck below 50% health, the passive stunbreak should inherently be a "no" to include on anything as it was a big part of the issue, I don't think any Warrior here posting and reading this thread should think otherwise. Why do you think Shrug It Off is even used at all? Because often times a CC has a condi attached to it, or a condi will be placed on you while you're CC'd, either accidentally or purposefully, and it will immediately break the CC for you. Granted there is a greater chance of it just getting burned before you ever get CC'd but that doesn't negate its effectiveness and its low 25 second ICD.

 

You are getting too much in to meta talk. We have way more significant issues. Every single build on every single class, is doing low damage (including condi) and it is making PvP a slow slugfest. So when CMC says he thinks we should further reduce damage, something is seriously wrong.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > Unrelated, but from the the part quoting CMC. warrior power level being ideal is Hilarious, considering that warrior deals almost no damage. I guess sPvP is going from bunker mode to no death allowed mode. I really wish they get rid of the CMC dev. GW2 sPvP, for all its issues, was really fun back in the day. I cannot stand this CC, bunker slugfest.

> >

> > Going slightly off topic here to address this part.

> >

> > Here is the thing with that interpretation of it; he said Warrior is considered "around the ideal power level" and if, from what you're saying, it "deals almost no damage" that is more due to the fact that everything **else** is overtuned as opposed to Warrior's damage being **that** bad.

> >

> > Personally I've still been able to deal damage on Warrior, its just that sort of across the board, even with Spellbreaker, it underperforms compared to other classes which means they are far more ideal to use to fulfill its "role" in either sPvP or WvW. The last couple of days I have done some roaming in WvW and some sPvP and while I have been able to 1vX a couple of times and beat classes like Reaper or otherwise in 1v1s, it definitely feels like an uphill battle when it comes to other classes just from the very beginning of any fight. I definitely understand where Necros were coming from more so now than I already did when they complained about having very little stability because that is where Warrior is right now, and we don't even get the benefits of teleports or a second health bar.

> >

> > We have more endurance regen still, but the moment another player with just one more CC skill comes along you're pretty much done. If you get focused by just two people even in a small scale teamfight, again, you're pretty much dead unless you have someone pulsing enough Stability on you to save your hide. Whereas you still have classes like Holosmith, Scrapper, Soulbeast, Core Ranger, Firebrand, Guardian, and even Reaper and Scourge now have better access to Stability than Warrior does even in solo situations. I'd go into much more detail with this but that is pushing the offtopic too far and I'd rather not derail this thread.

> >

> > Now to my actual feedback on something;

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910"

> > > Defense:

> >

> > >Defy Pain: Defy Pain now provides Spiked Armor (5s) and Protection (5s) when struck below 50% HP and breaks stuns with a CD of 60s.

> >

> > The first bit of this is par for the course, honestly, as it sort of runs in comparison to Emergency Elixir on Engineer. That trait had its invulnerability and passive stunbreak removed.

> >

> > The passive stunbreaking on Last Stand was a big part of why it was unhealthy, how Defy Pain and Last Stand worked with their passive procs were what got them "nullified" in competitive modes in the first place, so we **really** need to steer clear of anything like that. You can't just shift the problem with one trait onto another one and think that it solves what had been an issue with it already. The trait would very much be fine on its own with just the 5s of Protection and 5s of Spiked Armor (Retaliation) when struck below 50% health, the passive stunbreak should inherently be a "no" to include on anything as it was a big part of the issue, I don't think any Warrior here posting and reading this thread should think otherwise. Why do you think Shrug It Off is even used at all? Because often times a CC has a condi attached to it, or a condi will be placed on you while you're CC'd, either accidentally or purposefully, and it will immediately break the CC for you. Granted there is a greater chance of it just getting burned before you ever get CC'd but that doesn't negate its effectiveness and its low 25 second ICD.

>

> You are getting too much in to meta talk. We have way more significant issues. Every single build on every single class, is doing low damage (including condi) and it is making PvP a slow slugfest. So when CMC says he thinks we should further reduce damage, something is seriously wrong.

 

It has nothing to do with "just damage", though, that isn't what was said or implied, its other aspects of other classes that push them to such an extent that they are overtuned in comparison. Sustain, boon availability, boon uptime, mobility, available conditions, condition uptime, condition application frequency, available cleanses, boon strip/corrupt and probably other things that I can't think of at the moment. Those are the things that determine the "power level" of any given class. So if anything its something, or several things, among that list that would need to be lowered on certain classes so that they aren't so overbearing in PvP. Also when someone says "power level" they don't **literally** mean the stat ingame :P Just wondering if that was something that was misunderstood in the relaying of that information.

 

Personally I think damage is in an okay place in PvP/WvW, there are some things that definitely need some more adjustment, but I do think they need to alter how they approached the changes to damage on CC skills, which is to say I don't think it should have been that heavy handed. A 0.40 or 0.45 coefficient would have kept them relatively tame, I'd even settle for a 0.35 coefficient. Take Bull's Charge, that skill could crit for upwards of 5k damage which is quite a lot paired with all of the other things that it did.

 

Again it is probably best not to get too offtopic in this thread, otherwise it spirals down a hole and the good that this thread can do could get drowned out.