Reaper Balance (WvW)

[EremiteAngel.9765]

In addition to Lily's post on Reaper Balance for PvE, I would like to offer a different perspective on the Reaper balances for WvW small-scale / solo roaming. Reason why I'm not going to touch on large scale zerg fights is because Necromancers, Reapers, Scourges have generally been rather decent in this area.

 

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# WvW Small-scale / Solo Roaming

 

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WvW is unfortunately the hardest to balance and I'm more inclined to think that most of the WvW balances are aimed at balancing the most played mode (large zerge fights) rather than small scale or solo roaming.

 

WvW balances centering around small scale / solo roaming will probably remain a pipe dream but here are my thoughts...

 

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I quote the WvW Wiki description:

> World versus World (also known as WvW) is a Player versus Player game mode where players from three different servers, or worlds, battle in the Mists. It features **open-world combat** on five large maps...

 

**My general thoughts on WvW:**

WvW, emphasis being on 'open-world combat'. Unlike PvP where there are consequences for not fighting on point in small ringed arenas, WvW roaming has a lot less emphasis on points capture and rather places more importance on winning impromptu roaming encounters. Unlike PvP where there are suitable obstacles that provides line of sight blocking and kiting, WvW is more open, vast, and with fights occuring in areas that have no such LOS available.

 

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I quote the Reaper release notes from Wiki:

> An inexorable force on the battlefield, the reaper empowers itself enough to wield a cleaving greatsword to harvest its foes. **Slow and hard-hitting**, these deadly combatants call out the impending doom of their enemies with piercing shouts. Upon accumulating sufficient life force, they can enter the reaper’s shroud, a deadly form that grants them a dark scythe of malevolent energy and the abilities to match it. Capable of heavily afflicting their victims with chill and other conditions, the reaper wades into melee receiving and dealing blows knowing nothing can save its foes!

 

**My general thoughts on the design behind Reaper:**

While I won't challenge the higher powers decision to make Reapers the 'slow and hard-hitting' walking death, we are far from 'inexorable' and chills have way less impact on fights than would be desired. The change in 2015 on movement speed no longer affecting mobility skills meant that chills no longer limit the enemy's ability to get away from us. I don't mind being slow, but when I do get near my opponent, I would like that my opponent finds it hard to get away from me when he is chilled.

 

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**Necromancers have generally faced 3 constraints:**

1. Mobility

2. Stability / Stun-breaks

3. Range

 

Apart from Necromancer Shroud 1 that hits really hard at 1200 range, Necromancers have never had a good damage weapon above 900 range. Staff, the only 1200 range weapon, is more utility than damage and would not be able to compete against other classes' 1200+ range weapons. Mobility and stability was needless to say, in short supply compared to the other classes.

 

**To some extent, the introduction of Reapers gave Necromancers:**

* Some much desired mobility (Shroud 2 Dash).

* It also brought about stability (Shroud 3 Stab).

* Couple these with the 30% Shroud CD reduction trait and going for Foot in the Grave, Reapers became a lot more mobile and less susceptible to hard CC. Hell, I could even catch and kill Druids on my Reaper, and that says a lot.

* The loss of the Necro Shroud 1 range life blast was not so much felt.

 

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**And then the higher powers decided that the 30% Shroud CD reduction had to go.**

 

* Reapers lost the above mentioned mobility/stability/stunbreak synergy that allowed Reapers to compete decently against range mobile and hard CC foes in WvW.

* **Something else was also lost that hurt just as bad. The ability to rotate faster in/out of shroud for defensive purposes.** Other classes have spades of blocks, evades, invulnerability, invisible, blinks as their defenses. And these defenses are actively and skillfully rotated through their varied class mechanics, utilities, weapon skills. Reapers? We depend largely on Shroud for our defenses. **It usually means life or death in a fight having your shroud ready as soon as possible.** Good opponents generally view the time a Reaper leaves his Shroud as the 'burst' window and pile on the damage in that window. A good Reaper readies one defense in that shroud-downtime to counter the pressure before Shroud becomes available again. 7 seconds Shroud CD felt about right. **10 seconds? Too long. The window of shroud down is too long.** Reapers end up having to bust not just one defense in that downtime, but 2 or sometimes 3 defenses. And no, we don't have that many non-shroud defenses on low CDs to go around.

 

`Look at the defensive CDs that other classes have spread across all their utilities, weapons, class mechanics etc and look at what Reapers have to depend on. Shroud. Shroud!? and 10 seconds CD once we leave it?? What are we supposed to defend ourselves with in that 10 seconds?? Our 2 dodge. Our Utilities. And then what? No defensive weapon skill, no access to class Shroud mechanic until 10 seconds later. What the puppy.`

 

I've tried to adapt to a burstier Reaper build to kill my opponents in one or two shroud rotations because 10 seconds is just too puppy long to let a fight drag out. There are times when I feel forced to camp in shroud longer for a second use of dash to force out another of my opponent's defensive option because I am almost certain I won't get the chance to return to my shroud again once I leave it and I really hate the idea of camping shroud. Add to that all the power creep and defense creep taking place across all the other classes and you wonder if it makes any logical sense to have our main defense on a 10 seconds CD once you leave it.

 

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Now that my ranting is over, lets look at the balances to fix the problems.

 

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## Greatsword

 

I like Lily's argument that the downside of having long cast times and shields down nature of wielding a slow melee GS necessitates a corresponding advantage in another area, notably damage for PvE.

The same would apply to WvW. Imagine trying to hit a decent Deadeye while on your GS. The answer is no, you'll almost never hit him.

Deadeyes have been justifying their insane range damage Death's Judgement for its obvious animation, dodgeable cast time, and long set-up requirements.

Guess what, Reaper GS meets and exceeds all those justification.

 

But more important than damage is the range of the GS skills.

A large reason why I don't take GS for roaming is because opponents with range and mobility are going to render GS useless.

Increase the range of GS 5 pull to 1200 range. Just look at all the range and kiting options becoming more and more accessible to other classes. This 1200 range is already a necessity to make GS a competitive weapon. Also, please make it a non-projectile so it doesn't get obstructed or reflected =/

 

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## Reaper Shroud

 

I'm largely satisfied with the current version of Reaper Shroud, but would love to see chill condition being added to Reaper Shroud 1 auto attacks. It offers a nice DPS boost to both power or condi builds and ensures that when we do get near my opponent in Reaper Shroud, he can't just walk away from us that easily.

 

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## Shouts

 

I'm largely satisfied with shouts too and don't see much need to alter them from their current state except that they are largely more effective for group fights as opposed to single target fights. If I have to make some changes to it, it would be to see it stack its effects to some degree if you are hitting only one target, as opposed to 5 targets.

 

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## Traits

 

* Relentless Pursuit needs the 30% Shroud CD reduction added right here. Reaper has a huge dependence on shroud for defense and 10 seconds CD after leaving shroud is really too too too too long. Please. I would even ask to make this baseline but I will be glad for just its addition back to a trait.

* Cold Shoulder: I would like to see this increase not just physical damage taken by chilled foes, but also condition damage.

* Blighters boon: I would actually like to see this renamed and reworked as Blighters Chill. Instead of gaining lifeforce/health on boon application to self, make it gain lifeforce/health on chill application to foes. This will really help our sustain much better in the current meta where every class pretty much out-sustains us easily. So much for being inexorable.

 

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Last but most important...please revert the changes and allow chill to affect mobility skills...including blinks...cutting the distance for all these gap openers...

[Tzozef.9841]

"Also, please make it a non-projectile so it doesn't get obstructed or reflected =/"

 

I agree with this entirely. Objectively, it doesn't make sense for it to do so.

[Jaya.2760]

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> ## Traits

>

> * Relentless Pursuit needs the 30% Shroud CD reduction added right here. Reaper has a huge dependence on shroud for defense and 10 seconds CD after leaving shroud is really too too too too long. Please. I would even ask to make this baseline but I will be glad for just its addition back to a trait.

> * Cold Shoulder: I would like to see this increase not just physical damage taken by chilled foes, but also condition damage.

> * Blighters boon: I would actually like to see this renamed and reworked as Blighters Chill. Instead of gaining lifeforce/health on boon application to self, make it gain lifeforce/health on chill application to foes. This will really help our sustain much better in the current meta where every class pretty much out-sustains us easily. So much for being inexorable.

>

> ---

> Last but most important...please revert the changes and allow chill to affect mobility skills...including blinks...cutting the distance for all these gap openers...

 

I would prefer a gap closer instead reverting the changes. Reverting the changes would help other classes more than reaper, because most of them could apply way more swiftness/superspeed than a reaper could apply chill.

 

Something like Spellbreakers Magebane Tether against chilled foes would fit thematically really good to reaper. It would also fit to the name Relentless Pursuit ;), but seeing that Magebane Tether is a Grandmaster Trait, it should replace Blighters Boon.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @Jaya.2760 said:

> > @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> > ## Traits

> >

> > * Relentless Pursuit needs the 30% Shroud CD reduction added right here. Reaper has a huge dependence on shroud for defense and 10 seconds CD after leaving shroud is really too too too too long. Please. I would even ask to make this baseline but I will be glad for just its addition back to a trait.

> > * Cold Shoulder: I would like to see this increase not just physical damage taken by chilled foes, but also condition damage.

> > * Blighters boon: I would actually like to see this renamed and reworked as Blighters Chill. Instead of gaining lifeforce/health on boon application to self, make it gain lifeforce/health on chill application to foes. This will really help our sustain much better in the current meta where every class pretty much out-sustains us easily. So much for being inexorable.

> >

> > ---

> > Last but most important...please revert the changes and allow chill to affect mobility skills...including blinks...cutting the distance for all these gap openers...

>

> I would prefer a gap closer instead reverting the changes. Reverting the changes would help other classes more than reaper, because most of them could apply way more swiftness/superspeed than a reaper could apply chill.

>

> Something like Spellbreakers Magebane Tether against chilled foes would fit thematically really good to reaper. It would also fit to the name Relentless Pursuit ;), but seeing that Magebane Tether is a Grandmaster Trait, it should replace Blighters Boon.

 

Ohhh that's a great idea!

I was toying with the idea of giving Reaper some form of immobilize but the tether would as you say, fit even better!

[Aetatis.5418]

the hard hitting theme the reaper is supposed to be, with a tether would so super fit - you cant escape death (okay thats enough rp for the next 5 years). but srsly i LOVE the idea and always (short amount of time, considering pof doesnt exist very long - i know) felt like it should be a reaper skill instead of spellbreaker

[KrHome.1920]

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> `Look at the defensive CDs that other classes have spread across all their utilities, weapons, class mechanics etc and look at what Reapers have to depend on. Shroud. Shroud!? and 10 seconds CD once we leave it?? What are we supposed to defend ourselves with in that 10 seconds?? Our 2 dodge. Our Utilities. And then what? No defensive weapon skill, no access to class Shroud mechanic until 10 seconds later. What the puppy.`

That's were the Greatsword shines. Nightfall lasts almost a whole Shroud cooldown. When I run a GS build I only leave Shroud when I know Nightfall is not on cooldown.

 

> I've tried to adapt to a burstier Reaper build to kill my opponents in one or two shroud rotations because 10 seconds is just too puppy long to let a fight drag out.

This is in general the way I would play Power Reaper. Bruiser builds just don't work.

 

burst > opponent needs to recover > you are safe to leave shroud > repeat ... every other playstyle is subpar (unfortunately)

 

> @Jaya.2760 said:

>it should replace Blighters Boon.

No, it should replace Reaper's Onslaught bcause this is a useless trait in PvE (does not increase DPS) and PvP (outperformed by Blighter's Boon).

 

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @KrHome.1920 said:

> > @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> > `Look at the defensive CDs that other classes have spread across all their utilities, weapons, class mechanics etc and look at what Reapers have to depend on. Shroud. Shroud!? and 10 seconds CD once we leave it?? What are we supposed to defend ourselves with in that 10 seconds?? Our 2 dodge. Our Utilities. And then what? No defensive weapon skill, no access to class Shroud mechanic until 10 seconds later. What the puppy.`

> That's were the Greatsword shines. Nightfall lasts almost a whole Shroud cooldown. When I run a GS build I only leave Shroud when I know Nightfall is not on cooldown.

>

> > I've tried to adapt to a burstier Reaper build to kill my opponents in one or two shroud rotations because 10 seconds is just too puppy long to let a fight drag out.

> This is in general the way I would play Power Reaper. Bruiser builds just don't work.

>

> burst > opponent needs to recover > you are safe to leave shroud > repeat ... every other playstyle is subpar (unfortunately)

>

> > @Jaya.2760 said:

> >it should replace Blighters Boon.

> No, it should replace Reaper's Onslaught bcause this is a useless trait in PvE (does not increase DPS) and PvP (outperformed by Blighter's Boon).

>

 

GS Nightfall is great. Especially for group fights. Unfortunately it falls quite flat against range opponents as GS 5 is easy to get obstructed =(

[Lahmia.2193]

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> > @KrHome.1920 said:

> > > @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> > > `Look at the defensive CDs that other classes have spread across all their utilities, weapons, class mechanics etc and look at what Reapers have to depend on. Shroud. Shroud!? and 10 seconds CD once we leave it?? What are we supposed to defend ourselves with in that 10 seconds?? Our 2 dodge. Our Utilities. And then what? No defensive weapon skill, no access to class Shroud mechanic until 10 seconds later. What the puppy.`

> > That's were the Greatsword shines. Nightfall lasts almost a whole Shroud cooldown. When I run a GS build I only leave Shroud when I know Nightfall is not on cooldown.

> >

> > > I've tried to adapt to a burstier Reaper build to kill my opponents in one or two shroud rotations because 10 seconds is just too puppy long to let a fight drag out.

> > This is in general the way I would play Power Reaper. Bruiser builds just don't work.

> >

> > burst > opponent needs to recover > you are safe to leave shroud > repeat ... every other playstyle is subpar (unfortunately)

> >

> > > @Jaya.2760 said:

> > >it should replace Blighters Boon.

> > No, it should replace Reaper's Onslaught bcause this is a useless trait in PvE (does not increase DPS) and PvP (outperformed by Blighter's Boon).

> >

>

> GS Nightfall is great. Especially for group fights. Unfortunately it falls quite flat against range opponents as GS 5 is easy to get obstructed =(

 

Use "nothing can save you". I've been having a ball recently with ncsy/gs5/nightfall combo. Players never see it coming.

[Zoltreez.6435]

> @Lahmia.2193 said:

> > @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> > > @KrHome.1920 said:

> > > > @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> > > > `Look at the defensive CDs that other classes have spread across all their utilities, weapons, class mechanics etc and look at what Reapers have to depend on. Shroud. Shroud!? and 10 seconds CD once we leave it?? What are we supposed to defend ourselves with in that 10 seconds?? Our 2 dodge. Our Utilities. And then what? No defensive weapon skill, no access to class Shroud mechanic until 10 seconds later. What the puppy.`

> > > That's were the Greatsword shines. Nightfall lasts almost a whole Shroud cooldown. When I run a GS build I only leave Shroud when I know Nightfall is not on cooldown.

> > >

> > > > I've tried to adapt to a burstier Reaper build to kill my opponents in one or two shroud rotations because 10 seconds is just too puppy long to let a fight drag out.

> > > This is in general the way I would play Power Reaper. Bruiser builds just don't work.

> > >

> > > burst > opponent needs to recover > you are safe to leave shroud > repeat ... every other playstyle is subpar (unfortunately)

> > >

> > > > @Jaya.2760 said:

> > > >it should replace Blighters Boon.

> > > No, it should replace Reaper's Onslaught bcause this is a useless trait in PvE (does not increase DPS) and PvP (outperformed by Blighter's Boon).

> > >

> >

> > GS Nightfall is great. Especially for group fights. Unfortunately it falls quite flat against range opponents as GS 5 is easy to get obstructed =(

>

> Use "nothing can save you". I've been having a ball recently with ncsy/gs5/nightfall combo. Players never see it coming.

 

they don't need to.... they can just walk away.......

 

serioulsy most of the stuff a reaper can do he only can realy do it with some reliability in Big Zerg fights where people either dont see it or dont care about a a reaper in their face....