Anyone Hoping For A Support Warrior Spec?

[MatyrGustav.6210]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> I am expecting a staff based warrior with either 100% group uptime quickness or alacrity. It will be akin to FB. Not necessarily condo damage.

 

Yes please, me too. I feel as though. Staff is the only good option at this point.

 

I just can't wait for the Espec trailer.

[Tseison.4659]

Well, Warriors will almost 99.9% get Staff as their next weapon and will serve as a "lance" or "polearm" because if you've played through Champions in LS, you can see the Champion Watchknights that follow you, using a lance and a spinning ability with it. :/ So if anything you guys will probably get that weapon with aoe damage and mobility like utility skills. *shrugs*

[MatyrGustav.6210]

> @"Tseison.4659" said:

> Well, Warriors will almost 99.9% get Staff as their next weapon and will serve as a "lance" or "polearm" because if you've played through Champions in LS, you can see the Champion Watchknights that follow you, using a lance and a spinning ability with it. :/ So if anything you guys will probably get that weapon with aoe damage and mobility like utility skills. *shrugs*

 

I'd hope that anet would just use the actual Spear if that's the case.

 

It would feel odd to me if they pretend a staff as a spear, because it will always be called staff no matter what due to the item itself being a staff. They can only change how they fight with it. And not the item.

 

Daredevil & Revenant used staff as a Bo staff, but its still a staff. Mesmer used Greatsword as a magical catalyst, but its still a Greatsword. Etc.

 

They can only change the fighting style. It will always be a staff warrior, unless they allow them to use spears.

 

But hey, who know, maybe we will get the Great Axe as a new weapon for Warrior :)

 

Barbarian Elite Spec anyone?

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Barbarian elite is called Berserker.

 

Also no Heavy class has pistols. Warrior makes the most sense out of the three, so I say pistol/pistol.

[MatyrGustav.6210]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Barbarian elite is called Berserker.

>

> Also no Heavy class has pistols. Warrior makes the most sense out of the three, so I say pistol/pistol.

 

Im sure anet would figure a name out if they wanted to add a Great Axe.

Or, they can add it as a secondary weapon for Berzerker down the line if they decided current especs would get secondary weapons

 

I do like the idea of Pistols being a thing for Warrior.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Depends on the weapon that will complement it and how will it play out with the core skills and weapons. Warrior is my main and Im troubled for not knowing exactly what I want. I hear about pistols but I dont endorse the idea. The long range warrior ship has sailed already. They can always rework rifle and longbow. I dont want a very support-y warrior. Cause Spellbreaker already supports. More than that and I may as well play guardian. I want a balanced spec, slightly more offense oriented (similarly to how Core warrior can be more offensive, but still below Berserker tiers), with probable staff used as a spear.

 

Greataxe is always in my heart. Imagine the executioner's axe moves refined and implemented with burst animations too...candy for my heart.

 

Anyway a Demonslayer-chaos magic themed warrior would be cool imo. A middle ground between necro/mallyx and warrior. Offense with some support, but overall meant to perform fast paced combat.

[Opopanax.1803]

I think one of the challenges will be:

 

How do they make a support spec not be OP when combined with Tactics and Defense?

 

Shout heal is not incredibly strong and can't run in pure pve as a heal support. But if you add another support line on top of it, would it be too much?

 

One good thing is that you'd have to slot shouts, so having some competition there would be one way to address.

 

I do really hope we get some sort of kit to activate as the F1.. Would like something more unique than yet another final strike mechanic...

[MatyrGustav.6210]

> @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> I think one of the challenges will be:

>

> How do they make a support spec not be OP when combined with Tactics and Defense?

>

> Shout heal is not incredibly strong and can't run in pure pve as a heal support. But if you add another support line on top of it, would it be too much?

>

 

I dont think so. You can't equip them all. It would just be more customization/Variety for people who play support warrior

 

> One good thing is that you'd have to slot shouts, so having some competition there would be one way to address.

>

> I do really hope we get some sort of kit to activate as the F1.. Would like something more unique than yet another final strike mechanic...

 

A Weapon Master type Warrior with weapon kits assigned to F-1 - F-4 would be cool. Anet could even add a magical aspect to it by having the weapons conjured.

 

If there is a magical aspect to warrior, i can see them Summoning weapons.

[Opopanax.1803]

> @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > I think one of the challenges will be:

> >

> > How do they make a support spec not be OP when combined with Tactics and Defense?

> >

> > Shout heal is not incredibly strong and can't run in pure pve as a heal support. But if you add another support line on top of it, would it be too much?

> >

>

> I dont think so. You can't equip them all. It would just be more customized support Warrior.

>

> > One good thing is that you'd have to slot shouts, so having some competition there would be one way to address.

> >

> > I do really hope we get some sort of kit to activate as the F1.. Would like something more unique than yet another final strike mechanic...

>

> A Weapon Master type Warrior with weapon kits assigned to F-1 - F-4 would be cool. Anet could even add a magical aspect to it by having the weapons conjured.

>

> If there is a magical aspect to warrior, i can see them Summoning weapons.

 

I always thought the Ascalonian Ghost warriors would be cool to turn into a warrior elite spec somehow.

[Yasai.3549]

Yu mean Bannerslave+

 

Support Warrior right now are already Banner slaves, so a spec which is full support will just be Banner slave redux.

[Opopanax.1803]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> Yu mean Bannerslave+

>

> Support Warrior right now are already Banner slaves, so a spec which is full support will just be Banner slave redux.

 

Not if you had other beneficial buffs in place of banners. Or if you gave other classes the same effect as banner that were mutually exclusive.

I like the idea of and F1 kit that would let you cast a selected banner effect, with a heal amount with it, something like thqt.

[lare.5129]

it is already support everywhere ... or someone not enough so add to warrior tablet and avatar mode ?

[MatyrGustav.6210]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> Yu mean Bannerslave+

>

> Support Warrior right now are already Banner slaves, so a spec which is full support will just be Banner slave redux.

 

I dont think its fair that because the community decided to make Warrior a banner slave, That automatically suggests we shouldn't get a Support espec lol. Like think about it, every class has some support just like Warrior. If the community wants to place a magnifying glass on 1 of the 5 types of utilities Warrior has, that doesnt mean thats all a Warrior is, Its a balance issue.

 

Also are we sure Warrior will be able to get away from being a Banner slave? 2 Especs in and they still are. A 3rd wont change that, balance will though :)

[Yasai.3549]

> @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

>If the community wants to place a magnifying glass on 1 of the 5 types of utilities Warrior has, that doesnt mean thats all a Warrior is, Its a balance issue.

 

I mean, honestly?

We didn't put a magnifying glass on Banners : Banners themselves are just on another level.

 

Each Banner gives a whooping 200 stats.

That's kinda insane to NOT HAVE if the Warrior in question is a supposed Support build.

 

So in order for Warriors to steer away from Bannerslaving, one of two things must happen :

1. The Espec must straight up blow Banners out of the water, AKA, Powercreep

2. Banners are nerfed so hard that they aren't worth the utility slot

 

Knowing Anet.... guess which one is more likely to happen?

(spoiler alert, it's gonna be the easier option, which is to straight up remove Banners from the game)

 

 

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1) Update Banners so they mount onto your back and pulse around you. Reduce the CDs to 60s. Add flip over skills to grant a boon to allies in the area. Warrior gets double the duration if the banner trait is taken in addition to double the stats. The boon idea has been proposed by several different people and is honestly a fine idea. Making Banners mobile opens their usage in other game modes and frankly removes the annoyance having to pick them up everytime the group moves.

2) Vigorous Shouts in PvE need a coefficient increase to be effective there.

3) A support spec itself does not necessarily mean more healing. It could come in the form of extra barrier, offensive boons, and defensive boons. Or unstrippable buffs via new profession mechanics.

 

To expand on the last point. Things like granting extra boons, auras, conditions, or stealth on executing a blast finisher. Having more sources of aoe cripple and weakness to mitigate the group receiving damage. I've called for an F2 on a new elite spec that works off of the OH (or just a second burst for 2 handers) with utilities that provide support, but F2-F4 (do not get rid of core bursts) would work.

 

F2: Forward the Assault - Allies within range gain 5 stacks of Might for 10s, Fury for 8s, and Quickness for 4s. For the next 4s their next attack grants them 1000 barrier (based on the warrior's healing power. Coefficient of 0.5/0.25 PvE/Comp). 900 range

F3: Raise the Bulwark - Allies within range gain Protection for 5s, Retaliation for 5s, and Regeneration for 5s. For the next 4s their next attack removes 2 conditions. 900 range

F4: Overrun the Enemy - Allies within range gain superspeed for 4s and are cleansed of movement impairing conditions. For 4s their next attack grants swiftness for 5s. 900 range.

 

Each cost 1 bar of adrenaline. All adrenaline is not consumed when a burst or command is used. T1 bursts are available on F1. Base CDs are 12s, can be reduced via Discipline as normal. This gives a source of strong offensive support, defensive support, and mobility support with a rider effect that can't be striped, but can be countered by dodge/evade/blind/blocks/interrupts. I would suggest that 3 bars of adrenaline be the base amount with ways inside of the espec to generate adrenaline easily. Like gain 1 adrenaline when you grant a boon to an ally (1s ICD per ally), or gain 10 adrenaline when you execute a combo finisher (10s ICD).

 

Tying support to Profession Mechanic once again locks Warrior into Discipline to maximize effectiveness. But then you no longer have to worry about a theoretical Tacticts/Defense/Support e-spec that can't be killed. It would have to be Tactics/Disc/espec or Def/Disc/espec or Str/Disc/espec.

 

The above commands could just as well be actual Command utilities and keep the new profession mechanic as something like OH burst attacks. Which would help in incentivizing competitive players away from shield.

 

Edit: and yes the 900 range was on purpose because such a spec should be pistol/pistol :tongue:

[draxynnic.3719]

Gotta say, it'd be awesome if they did dust off all those polearm concepts. I'm not holding my breath, but if they did...

 

> @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > I think one of the challenges will be:

> >

> > How do they make a support spec not be OP when combined with Tactics and Defense?

> >

> > Shout heal is not incredibly strong and can't run in pure pve as a heal support. But if you add another support line on top of it, would it be too much?

> >

>

> I dont think so. You can't equip them all. It would just be more customization/Variety for people who play support warrior

 

This, really.

 

Guardian is already in that sort of space. So many supportive utility skills, but you can only pick three. The other skills you _could_ take don't really contribute to the power of the build you've got right now. What they do provide, though, is versatility (if you need a different kind of support, you can bring different skills) and insurance (if one of your support skills gets nerfed, you might find that swapping it out for one of the others results in less of a performance drop than keeping the one that got nerfed).

 

I can understand the feeling that support is not really what warrior is about, but let's face it: six out of nine professions now have a supportive elite spec. _Most_ of those elite specs can also get good damage output if you build for damage rather than support. A hypothetical warrior support elite spec could provide support options, while still having just as much potential to be aggressive as a firebrand or renegade.

[choovanski.5462]

I think y'all underestimate how good heal warrior is right now. it's the meta healer in spvp right now with tempest, and it was just nerfed last patch. it's a better support than any guardian, druid or rev centaur build right now, even after big nerfs.

 

warrior is also meta on minstrel shout heals for boon strip and support in WvW too.

 

adding more support to this class is just going to make it overkill, and either the spec or tactics will have to be gutted for the sake of balance, as support warrior right now is already so strong it's basically the only way to play the class in PvP modes. as for PvE, everyone already knows about banners no need to go over them.

 

a mobility utility spec with pistols would be far better. you know something that might let warrior play damage on side node in PvP again. a support spec that would be so broken it would have to be nerfed on launch or break the game is really NOT what we need.

[Opopanax.1803]

> @"choovanski.5462" said:

> I think y'all underestimate how good heal warrior is right now. it's the meta healer in spvp right now with tempest, and it was just nerfed last patch. it's a better support than any guardian, druid or rev centaur build right now, even after big nerfs.

>

> warrior is also meta on minstrel shout heals for boon strip and support in WvW too.

>

> adding more support to this class is just going to make it overkill, and either the spec or tactics will have to be gutted for the sake of balance, as support warrior right now is already so strong it's basically the only way to play the class in PvP modes. as for PvE, everyone already knows about banners no need to go over them.

>

> a mobility utility spec with pistols would be far better. you know something that might let warrior play damage on side node in PvP again. a support spec that would be so broken it would have to be nerfed on launch or break the game is really NOT what we need.

 

You folks keep calling warrior with banner in pve "Support". This is not accurate. It is a dps spec that slots group buff utilities.

 

In no way is a banner slave a support in any sense of a minstrel or harrier firebrand, renegade, druid, or tempest in pve.

 

You don't play them or gear them like support, you gear and play them like dps...because they are.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > I think y'all underestimate how good heal warrior is right now. it's the meta healer in spvp right now with tempest, and it was just nerfed last patch. it's a better support than any guardian, druid or rev centaur build right now, even after big nerfs.

> >

> > warrior is also meta on minstrel shout heals for boon strip and support in WvW too.

> >

> > adding more support to this class is just going to make it overkill, and either the spec or tactics will have to be gutted for the sake of balance, as support warrior right now is already so strong it's basically the only way to play the class in PvP modes. as for PvE, everyone already knows about banners no need to go over them.

> >

> > a mobility utility spec with pistols would be far better. you know something that might let warrior play damage on side node in PvP again. a support spec that would be so broken it would have to be nerfed on launch or break the game is really NOT what we need.

>

> You folks keep calling warrior with banner in pve "Support". This is not accurate. It is a dps spec that slots group buff utilities.

>

> In no way is a banner slave a support in any sense of a minstrel or harrier firebrand, renegade, druid, or tempest in pve.

>

> You don't play them or gear them like support, you gear and play them like dps...because they are.

 

This. I've been playing bannerslave in raids lately because the regular bs we started with started having other obligations. The playstyle is that you drop the banners in the best spot you can find and then DPS until it's time to refresh the banners. Usually the only difference between a bannerslave and a pure DPS berserker is that the utility slots that would have had banners have rage skills instead, and in the power variant you swap Smash Brawler for Last Blaze because you have the extra rage skills to use. The pure DPS builds even keep the Doubled Standards trait, because the assumption is that you'd never play them unless there was already a bannerslave in the squad.

[Obtena.7952]

I'm just hoping Anet can come up with a killer theme that gives a good combination of effects that is fun to play.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I'm just hoping Anet can come up with a killer theme that gives a good combination of effects that is fun to play.

 

WOH now lets not get ahead of ourselves!

[MatyrGustav.6210]

> @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > I think y'all underestimate how good heal warrior is right now. it's the meta healer in spvp right now with tempest, and it was just nerfed last patch. it's a better support than any guardian, druid or rev centaur build right now, even after big nerfs.

> >

> > warrior is also meta on minstrel shout heals for boon strip and support in WvW too.

> >

> > adding more support to this class is just going to make it overkill, and either the spec or tactics will have to be gutted for the sake of balance, as support warrior right now is already so strong it's basically the only way to play the class in PvP modes. as for PvE, everyone already knows about banners no need to go over them.

> >

> > a mobility utility spec with pistols would be far better. you know something that might let warrior play damage on side node in PvP again. a support spec that would be so broken it would have to be nerfed on launch or break the game is really NOT what we need.

>

> You folks keep calling warrior with banner in pve "Support". This is not accurate. It is a dps spec that slots group buff utilities.

>

> In no way is a banner slave a support in any sense of a minstrel or harrier firebrand, renegade, druid, or tempest in pve.

>

> You don't play them or gear them like support, you gear and play them like dps...because they are.

 

Exactly what i was thinking. Banners also increase the Warriors stats, and just because it also provides it to all, doesn't really mean its full support. Warriors can use banners to help with their own Dps.

 

Maybe Banners should be nerfed then, since the word Bannerslave exists

[choovanski.5462]

> @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > I think y'all underestimate how good heal warrior is right now. it's the meta healer in spvp right now with tempest, and it was just nerfed last patch. it's a better support than any guardian, druid or rev centaur build right now, even after big nerfs.

> >

> > warrior is also meta on minstrel shout heals for boon strip and support in WvW too.

> >

> > adding more support to this class is just going to make it overkill, and either the spec or tactics will have to be gutted for the sake of balance, as support warrior right now is already so strong it's basically the only way to play the class in PvP modes. as for PvE, everyone already knows about banners no need to go over them.

> >

> > a mobility utility spec with pistols would be far better. you know something that might let warrior play damage on side node in PvP again. a support spec that would be so broken it would have to be nerfed on launch or break the game is really NOT what we need.

>

> You folks keep calling warrior with banner in pve "Support". This is not accurate. It is a dps spec that slots group buff utilities.

>

> In no way is a banner slave a support in any sense of a minstrel or harrier firebrand, renegade, druid, or tempest in pve.

>

> You don't play them or gear them like support, you gear and play them like dps...because they are.

 

feel like you completely missed the point of my WvW and sPvP focused post my dude.

 

still, I would classify a full bar of group buff utilities as being a support. not a healer sure, but an offensive support none the less.

 

regardless, in two of three gamemodes warrior is stuck playing heal support. power creep to this role is hardly what we need there.

[MatyrGustav.6210]

> @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > > @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > > I think y'all underestimate how good heal warrior is right now. it's the meta healer in spvp right now with tempest, and it was just nerfed last patch. it's a better support than any guardian, druid or rev centaur build right now, even after big nerfs.

> > >

> > > warrior is also meta on minstrel shout heals for boon strip and support in WvW too.

> > >

> > > adding more support to this class is just going to make it overkill, and either the spec or tactics will have to be gutted for the sake of balance, as support warrior right now is already so strong it's basically the only way to play the class in PvP modes. as for PvE, everyone already knows about banners no need to go over them.

> > >

> > > a mobility utility spec with pistols would be far better. you know something that might let warrior play damage on side node in PvP again. a support spec that would be so broken it would have to be nerfed on launch or break the game is really NOT what we need.

> >

> > You folks keep calling warrior with banner in pve "Support". This is not accurate. It is a dps spec that slots group buff utilities.

> >

> > In no way is a banner slave a support in any sense of a minstrel or harrier firebrand, renegade, druid, or tempest in pve.

> >

> > You don't play them or gear them like support, you gear and play them like dps...because they are.

>

> feel like you completely missed the point of my WvW and sPvP focused post my dude.

>

> still, I would classify a full bar of group buff utilities as being a support. not a healer sure, but an offensive support none the less.

>

> regardless, in two of three gamemodes warrior is stuck playing heal support. power creep to this role is hardly what we need there.

 

So what i am Gathering is, Warriors have vigorous shouts, and banners for Support, in which can be equipped on any espec since its from core Warrior. So, we want the 3rd espec to be Dps since we can already make each espec a support Variant due to that?

 

Makes sense.

 

But lets say Anet still adds Monk with Staff, they can make it mostly Dps and just the espec class function could have a secondary F-2 that heals / cleanses allies. If that monk wanted to play full healer, they can equip the vigorous shouts. Would be cool to have dps / Self boosting Meditations ?‍♀️, and the Healing utility skill could be Area of effect healing.

 

So then, 85ish% that would be added to Monk would be Dps, but enough for support players to be happy since they can pair it with shouts or banners.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

We already have a full DPS espec and how has that turned out in the competitive modes?

 

What people really want is a more active form of support other than dropping banners every 60s. The double stats for the warrior when traited are so that it doesn't LOSE dps by maintaining the manners in that manner (you aren't doing DPS when casting or picking them up, so that cancels out the stats you gain :wink:). So the warrior itself, if it is the one carrying banners, has no real benefit to them outside of getting a small amount of swiftness.

 

Shouts are fine, but honestly are a mediocre form of support, its just the last effective build for group competitive play outside of CC spam due to how much warrior's damage was nerfed on key weapon sets. This is not okay. Would a support focused espec exacerbate it? If it is tied to Bursts, then you'd have to take Discipline to maximize it, so you'd be left with one other traitline. If you take Tactics then you really are only giving out more boons in addition to the healing (at least if you take my proposal above). Not a bad thing guys, its not like we are talking about a HEALER spec that would pump out 5k heals every 2s in addition to vomiting boons.

 

Give warrior a pair of pistols, some F2-F4 skills that offer group support though boons and unstrippable buffs like I mentioned above, and then you have the workings of an actually good, effective, and FUN support build that give flexibility in the utility slots to augment that support in various ways.

 

One espec offered full offense in its mechanic, the other offered full defense. Let this one offer support via its new mechanic along with a functional and versatile weapon set.