Scourge is unbearable to deal with

[Fxthaid.4832]

What's the point of playing melee builds, other than the overpowered Spellbreaker, against a Scourge when they can burst you down in a matter of seconds?

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

I never play melee, so I can't really say on this.

I do know I never had a problem with a Scourge from range as I keep out of their little circles and that little bit of barrier they make gets eaten away from my attacks.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Have you tried blocking? Staff isn't a part of Scourge burst, so every part of it is blockable.

 

Alternatively, bait the Desert Shroud, then go back in a few seconds later. That's a massive defensive and damage cooldown that is easy to minimize the impact of.

[TexZero.7910]

> @Fxthaid.4832 said:

> What's the point of playing melee builds, other than the overpowered Spellbreaker, against a Scourge when they can burst you down in a matter of seconds?

 

You know you can play things other than melee in PvP right ?

 

Like literally Ranger makes scourge hate life.

[Malafaia.8903]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> > @Fxthaid.4832 said:

> > What's the point of playing melee builds, other than the overpowered Spellbreaker, against a Scourge when they can burst you down in a matter of seconds?

>

> You know you can play things other than melee in PvP right ?

>

> Like literally Ranger makes scourge hate life.

 

Well, the question was "What's the point of playing melee builds?"

Your answer is: "Don't play melee".

This obviously states the need of balance.

 

I'm a main Druid here and really don't have problems with scourges.

Not the case when fighting spellbreakers tho.

And i'm not saying that it's HARD to kill spellbreakers, i'm saying it's almost impossible (the guy must be a REAL bad player, like fresh new player without a metabattle build).

 

On pre-PoF launch we had decent balance.

It was a pain for Druids to kill Warriors ie. But you could do it.

[MyPuppy.8970]

The key is to fart clears faster than the vomitting condies, while sustaining and dealing damage. Hard cc help a lot too.

[Loboling.5293]

I'm seriously wondering where the balance patch is... I really didn't expect them to launch the expansion without making any major balance changes. The product we got in beta, minus a few bug fixes, is the same we have now... Regardless of the pages and pages of feedback... It's very disappointing. Scourge is just one example, so like others have said, in the meantime, go play a ranger. On my soulbeast I make scourges, spellbreakers, firebrands cry because of unblockable spam, another amazing addition to pof. (Literally 14 seconds of unblockable attacks...) Balance is a mess right now, and the other solution to countering the "hard counter meta" we're in, is picking the counter to your enemies builds. I'm enjoying soulbeast lately for reasons stated above, but it doesn't feel healthy, more like I'm getting back at these classes for making my Herald feel like a chew toy.

 

What we need are abilities that can be countered. We need each class to have tools to dealing with a variety of situations.

We don't need hyper build wars, instead of it being a drawn out battle of skill; it's a hard counter from basic design.

 

I watch fresh air eles destroying players, I see scourges destroying players, I see soulbeasts destroying players, I see scourges destroying players, I see dead eyes destroying players.

 

We need fights, not simple hard counter mechanics like shades, counter and malice lead to be.

 

Yesterday I got marked by a deadeye, and then ran off and went into shadow refuge. Some 20 seconds late, right as the point capped. I got one shot for 19k. I don't think stealth spikes for such amounts are healthy gameplay. Sure, I could've been playing a bunker druid and then his build would be useless. Hard counters are no fun.

 

I hope we see some changes. But I'm absolutely shocked that another tuesday has come and no sign of a balance patch. No word, nothing.

[Elegie.3620]

> @Fxthaid.4832 said:

> What's the point of playing melee builds, other than the overpowered Spellbreaker, against a Scourge when they can burst you down in a matter of seconds?

 

Do you expect any class/build to beat any other class/build? Some builds naturally counter other builds, there's no build which can beat any other build 1v1, with players of the same level. Certain builds are even unkillable 1v1. If you like, check out the recent videos by Phantaram, his fresh air build dominates scourges and spellbreakers, but is at disadvantage against s/d thieves or possibly condi mirages.

 

Also, is it really important? A player has a build with strengths and weaknesses, aimed at a particular role. Dynamic analysis of strengths and weaknesses (yours, your mates and your opponent's), as well as the capability to quickly act on them in a game to form synergies and maximize your role, are IMHO essential skills one should cultivate. Flexibility is a critical success factor in most PvP games.

 

In any case, for your scourge problem, I suggest you roll one out, and make a few duels against the class you usually play, you'll find soon enough if there are ways to improve your chances at the matchup. Just ask for some duels in the map chat (or a guildie if you have some available). Good luck!

[dragonkain.3984]

> @Fxthaid.4832 said:

> What's the point of playing melee builds, other than the overpowered Spellbreaker, against a Scourge when they can burst you down in a matter of seconds?

 

None, non-spellbreaker melles are unplayable in this game thanks to Scourge expansion, nuff said. I don't see any point in this discussion.

[Simeonus.9237]

People saying stay ranged or run are funny. Do you realise sPvP is focused on capturing the points and if you stay ranged or run out of it then you lose, that's why Scourge is broken, because his two weaknesses simply don't apply to sPvP, as scourge you don't have to bother with ranged enemies nor chase anyone, just stay on point and drop your insane amount of AoE condi bombs to everyone who dare to enter your realm. I thought scourge would be fine after recent "bug fixes" but it's still insane. To win vs scourge you either need one or spellbreaker, everything else is useless.

[Kuya.6495]

Scourges are still a problem?

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @Simeonus.9237 said:

> People saying stay ranged or run are funny. Do you realise sPvP is focused on capturing the points and if you stay ranged or run out of it then you lose, that's why Scourge is broken, because his two weaknesses simply don't apply to sPvP, as scourge you don't have to bother with ranged enemies nor chase anyone, just stay on point and drop your insane amount of AoE condi bombs to everyone who dare to enter your realm. I thought scourge would be fine after recent "bug fixes" but it's still insane. To win vs scourge you either need one or spellbreaker, everything else is useless.

 

There is such a thing as "killing the Scourge before you try to contest the point." It's not hard. Letting them hold the point for another 10 seconds is worth the 5 points you get from the kill plus the free capture.

 

To keep a Scourge from taking the point, well, you don't have to physically be on it to hold it. Intercepting the least mobile class in the game isn't exactly difficult and you negate their biggest strength by doing so.

[WhiteDeath.8067]

> @Kuya.6495 said:

> Scourges are still a problem?

 

 

[ZyniX.3589]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> Have you tried blocking? Staff isn't a part of Scourge burst, so every part of it is blockable.

>

> Alternatively, bait the Desert Shroud, then go back in a few seconds later. That's a massive defensive and damage cooldown that is easy to minimize the impact of.

Soul marks in the soul reaping tree makes staff skills unblockable and they generate extra life force.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @ZyniX.3589 said:

> > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > Have you tried blocking? Staff isn't a part of Scourge burst, so every part of it is blockable.

> >

> > Alternatively, bait the Desert Shroud, then go back in a few seconds later. That's a massive defensive and damage cooldown that is easy to minimize the impact of.

> Soul marks in the soul reaping tree makes staff skills unblockable and they generate extra life force.

 

"Staff isn't a part of Scourge burst" <- Something I said in your quoted post. The OP is having problems with Scourge's burst. Staff isn't a part of it. Ergo, Soul Marks isn't a part of his issues.

 

Ar most, Staff applies 2 bleeds and 3 poison stacks for condition damage. In no way does anyone consider that "burst" worthy (or even dangerous on its own). No, that's done in Scepter/Torch, which is 100% blockable.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @MyPuppy.8970 said:

> The key is to fart clears faster than the vomitting condies, while sustaining and dealing damage. Hard cc help a lot too.

 

...and to do it while riding a pegasus, I suppose, since that's about as realistic a suggestion.

 

The only way to reliably beat them with a melee build, as far as I've seen, is to hit them with an absolutely extravagant amount of chained hard cc and burst damage, preferably from behind and using stealth to get close without them setting up their shade in a place that would give them the advantage in the (very short) fight. If you can't immediately gain an overwhelming advantage, get out of there. If they have a friend nearby, especially a support or another scourge, leave them be...you'll just die needlessly. You need to harass them from range and waste their life force if they have support.

 

Basically, play a daredevil or a holosmith, know the scourge abilities to look out for and how to counter them, and be as underhanded as possible.

 

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @ZyniX.3589 said:

> > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > Have you tried blocking? Staff isn't a part of Scourge burst, so every part of it is blockable.

> > >

> > > Alternatively, bait the Desert Shroud, then go back in a few seconds later. That's a massive defensive and damage cooldown that is easy to minimize the impact of.

> > Soul marks in the soul reaping tree makes staff skills unblockable and they generate extra life force.

>

> "Staff isn't a part of Scourge burst" <- Something I said in your quoted post. The OP is having problems with Scourge's burst. Staff isn't a part of it. Ergo, Soul Marks isn't a part of his issues.

>

> Ar most, Staff applies 2 bleeds and 3 poison stacks for condition damage. In no way does anyone consider that "burst" worthy (or even dangerous on its own). No, that's done in Scepter/Torch, which is 100% blockable.

 

Actually, a large part of the problem is that they leave staff marks down in advance, so that when you try to approach them through their sand savant AoE under a channeled blocking skill, it gets interrupted by unblockable fear, and suddenly you're feared and crippled while they're bursting you. If you try to go around the sand golem, they just run through it to prevent you from closing.

 

Best bet is definitely stealth approach from a direction they aren't expecting.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

If they placed the mark beforehand, then you see it on the ground and can just go around it.

[Zaraki.5784]

They already nerfed it to the point it's almost useless now, how the hell can you still complain about it?! -.-

Now necro has become useless once again thanks to people like you OP....

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

I can say with 110% honesty that my DE (while in melee) can beat a scourge with D/P alone. Daredevil does even better (thanks to passive pulm impact). What classes/weapons have you tried vs them?

 

Knowing that may help more than just complaining about a class that is no longer OP. Maybe its an Adapt and learn moment?

 

[ZyniX.3589]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @ZyniX.3589 said:

> > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > Have you tried blocking? Staff isn't a part of Scourge burst, so every part of it is blockable.

> > >

> > > Alternatively, bait the Desert Shroud, then go back in a few seconds later. That's a massive defensive and damage cooldown that is easy to minimize the impact of.

> > Soul marks in the soul reaping tree makes staff skills unblockable and they generate extra life force.

>

> "Staff isn't a part of Scourge burst" <- Something I said in your quoted post. The OP is having problems with Scourge's burst. Staff isn't a part of it. Ergo, Soul Marks isn't a part of his issues.

>

> Ar most, Staff applies 2 bleeds and 3 poison stacks for condition damage. In no way does anyone consider that "burst" worthy (or even dangerous on its own). No, that's done in Scepter/Torch, which is 100% blockable.

 

I never quoted that part of your post because I wasn't responding to it. Just pointing out a mistake because I play necro and use that trait a lot. As for another one of your quotes "If they placed the mark beforehand, then you see it on the ground and can just go around it." You can place the marks on top of someone and the marks will instantly blow up.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @ZyniX.3589 said:

> > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > @ZyniX.3589 said:

> > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > > Have you tried blocking? Staff isn't a part of Scourge burst, so every part of it is blockable.

> > > >

> > > > Alternatively, bait the Desert Shroud, then go back in a few seconds later. That's a massive defensive and damage cooldown that is easy to minimize the impact of.

> > > Soul marks in the soul reaping tree makes staff skills unblockable and they generate extra life force.

> >

> > "Staff isn't a part of Scourge burst" <- Something I said in your quoted post. The OP is having problems with Scourge's burst. Staff isn't a part of it. Ergo, Soul Marks isn't a part of his issues.

> >

> > Ar most, Staff applies 2 bleeds and 3 poison stacks for condition damage. In no way does anyone consider that "burst" worthy (or even dangerous on its own). No, that's done in Scepter/Torch, which is 100% blockable.

>

> I never quoted that part of your post because I wasn't responding to it. Just pointing out a mistake because I play necro and use that trait a lot. As for another one of your quotes "If they placed the mark beforehand, then you see it on the ground and can just go around it." You can place the marks on top of someone and the marks will instantly blow up.

 

You did quote it, actually.

 

If they're placing the marks directly on you, then they're not bursting you at that moment. Now they've used their unblockable Fear and you're not in Burst range. Plus, the person I responded to specifically said "place the marks ahead of time," so not talking about using them directly on a target.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> If they placed the mark beforehand, then you see it on the ground and can just go around it.

 

Actually, they tend to place three marks on the ground, in slightly different locations, as well as their sand shade. Given all of the clutter, it is impossible to determine which is which; given the environmental obstructions, it is impossible to go around all of it without allowing the scourge to reposition themselves to a more favorable place. It's like trying to catch someone on the opposite side of a table from you, except that they can go over the table and you cannot. Even if you're faster than they are, it's still not in your favor.

 

> @Zaraki.5784 said:

> They already nerfed it to the point it's almost useless now, how the hell can you still complain about it?! -.-

> Now necro has become useless once again thanks to people like you OP....

 

The nerf was essentially PvE only. In PvP, every scourge that knows what they're doing (and even most of the ones that don't) runs sand savant, which was unaffected by the bug fix. The cooldown increase wasn't enough to make a huge difference, given that those skills are primarily gated by life force rather than cooldown time.

 

Scourge is still very strong, for those who know how to play it. In all honesty, though, I think that much of the problem is the boon corrupt rather than straight up boon rip. That gives them tons of trash cover conditions, making it much harder to counterplay the condition burst itself.

[Hiki.9310]

> @Kuya.6495 said:

> Scourges are still a problem?

 

The number of scourges dropped dramatically after the last nerf. I went from seeing them every game to seeing them every other match.

[mes.4607]

Some of the suggestions here on how to kill a scourge are so unrealistic it's not even funny

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Play ranged then to burst the scourge down?

 

By that same premise I could say melee is unbearable to deal with, so what's the point of playing ranged physical damage builds if a melee can simply run through my ranged and run me over?

 

Rock, Paper, Scissors my friend. Scourge already took a hefty dps hit already. They need to be buffed, not nerfed, and condition immunity needs to be removed from the game completely or drastically lowered.