Scourge is unbearable to deal with

[Chaith.8256]

> Rifle engineer has a ton of CC. It has been a hardcouter to core necro years ago and pushed the class out of pvp. It can almost do the same with scourge and its embarrassing stability options.

 

Yeah you've kind of distorted history here, Necromancers have been Engi hard counters for vanilla and still counters for HoT and PoF. Holosmith is not 1v1 oriented. Necro has never been pushed out of PvP.. always a build adaptation/team adjustment that made it work in top tier PvP with no exception that I can think of in any meta.

 

> I'm pretty sure a Holosmith can wombo a Scourge pretty easily. I wouldn't be surprised if the Holosmith's cc/burst combo kills Scourge outright.

 

Depends on a lot of factors, usually Scourges run 2-3 stunbreaks and have a Firebrand shatting stability on their general direction in teamfights. 1v1 Holosmith doesn't win either..... but in a coordinated effort to corrupt/steal on a focus target, Holosmith can certainly heavily contribute to smashing Firebrands/Scourges.

[Crinn.7864]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> Yeah you've kind of distorted history here, Necromancers have been Engi hard counters for vanilla and still counters for HoT and PoF. Holosmith is not 1v1 oriented. Necro has never been pushed out of PvP.. always a build adaptation/team adjustment that made it work in top tier PvP with no exception that I can think of in any meta.

To be devil's advocate here. While it's true Necromancers have been in the meta for much of the game's life it's not because necros have some amazing toolkit that great for pvp. Necros are generally meta due to either a gimmick (see procmancer) or due to specifically countering something. (see necro being meta during d/d ele meta because signet necro could kill d/d ele)

 

Pretty much the only reason necro was meta during HoT was because necro had a monopoly on boonhate in a meta defined by boons. The only reason Scourge is meta now is because of Scourge's overwhelming firepower, as scourge lacks any real playmaking tools outside of it's dps.

 

 

> Depends on a lot of factors, usually Scourges run 2-3 stunbreaks and have a Firebrand shatting stability on their general direction in teamfights. 1v1 Holosmith doesn't win either..... but in a coordinated effort to corrupt/steal on a focus target, Holosmith can certainly heavily contribute to smashing Firebrands/Scourges.

 

As someone who has spent a lot of time on both scourge and reaper post PoF, I will chip in here.

Rifle Holo vs Scourge is basically [Rocket Tag.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RocketTagGameplay) Holosmith can't survive Scourge's condi bomb, but scourge also lacks any defense against power damage outside of it's 2 dodge charges. The matchup is basically a coin flip. Non-rifle Holo however is basically a free kill for scourge.

 

Reaper vs Holo, you just don't even bother because reaper is flat outclassed by Holosmith in basically every category.