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WvW Soul beast needs a giant nerf!


asterix.9614

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> @"melandru.3876" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > > > > iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)

> > > > > > > "asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffs

> > > > > > I'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.

> > > > > > Learn the difference.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > show me where i ask for a nerf

> > > > > i await your quote

> > > > Sure my pleasure, the ones in the first page of the subforum.

> > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/120143/nerfs-the-ranger-class-as-a-whole-needs-please-anet

> > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109880/druids-need-the-pets-to-have-returned-the-20-stats-druids-shouldnt-have-access-to-pets-actives

> > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109878/trait-ancient-seeds-needs-to-be-deleted-from-the-game-asap-perma-immob-ranger

> > > > Happy now?

> > >

> > > o......k........?

> > >

> > > first) i'm in none of these threads

> > > second) i didn't ask for a nerf, ever

> > > third) what is actually your point?

> > >

> > > i reply to a guy which, to me, was one of the most dumbest suggestions i have ever read (who is willing to spend 800 gemsworth of templates , and a full equipmen just to return to his squad?)

> > >

> > > it is you, soulbeast mains who band together and try to defend your class.

> > > that alone says enough

> >

> > no dude, you’re deflecting and refusing all the advice we are giving you. as someone who has played the pewpew full zerk sicem build multiple times, swapped back and forth, ik exactly how to counter it and deal with it. stunbreak, evade, block, teleport. you’re safe.

> >

> > if you already are using both templates and both of them are full zerk, excuse me but kitten are you doing??? i’m not telling you to buy new template, but if you’re not utilizing both templates and only play full zerk you really have no valid against 1shots as you’re 100% asking for it, because you can dish out just as much dmg as soulbeast, except in aoe rather than single target.

> >

> > it’s just crazy to me. sicem burst used to be WAYYYYY worse and WAYYY more OP. it used to deal 40% extra dmg instead of 25%, it used be 4s unblockable every 10s. now power coefficients and flat dmg is reduced, no more unblockable, worse coefficients, 25% dmg increase. if you wanna play full friggin zerk, EXPECT to get 1shot and pewpewd.

>

> this might sound strange to you, but there are game modes outside of wvw

> different gear, different traits you know the drill

>

> i could however visit the bank first before i head into wvw. bank tabs are less then 800 gems so it could save me some gold. drop all my gear there then i can pick nomad stats

>

> solid advice afterall

 

you ask for advice but you don’t wanna listen. make fun of all our advice all you want, but you’re the only one here dying to noob stomper builds.

 

obviously nomads is an exaggeration. get a set with around 2500 armor and sicem pewpew won’t harm you anymore. get the protection + stab cantrip utility and their dmg is basically gone. stop making all these excuses. again, make fun of my tips all you want, YOU’RE the one losing, dying and complaining on the forums, not me.

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All this being said, a full Minstrel Guardian can be 100-0 by Rapid Fire + OWP on full memebeast setup, but sure there is nothing to see here right? Wasn't the point of the Feb. patch to bring this sort of stuff in line, but while targeted nerfs were what was needed we instead got blanket 20-35% damage reductions that were not even levied evenly across the classes.

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> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> All this being said, a full Minstrel Guardian can be 100-0 by Rapid Fire + OWP on full memebeast setup, but sure there is nothing to see here right? Wasn't the point of the Feb. patch to bring this sort of stuff in line, but while targeted nerfs were what was needed we instead got blanket 20-35% damage reductions that were not even levied evenly across the classes.

 

i would love to see an example of this actually happening cus i have yet to pull that off unless a chrono is boon ripping the kitten out of the fb at the same time. and again, FB has PLENTY of tools to deal with pewpew. full minstrel fb is easily over 3000armor correct? probably more like 3200 iirc. add protection, aegis, 1 dodge and the dmg you’re likely to deal to a minstrel is closer to 25-30% at best, if he doesn’t just block it.

 

killing noobs who don’t know what they are doing doesn’t mean anything. pulling a build off discord playing it for 20 hours on fb and thinking you’re gonna be immortal is just silly. if you want that i’d refer you to minstrel auramancer tempest lmao.

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> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > All this being said, a full Minstrel Guardian can be 100-0 by Rapid Fire + OWP on full memebeast setup, but sure there is nothing to see here right? Wasn't the point of the Feb. patch to bring this sort of stuff in line, but while targeted nerfs were what was needed we instead got blanket 20-35% damage reductions that were not even levied evenly across the classes.

>

> i would love to see an example of this actually happening cus i have yet to pull that off unless a chrono is boon ripping the kitten out of the fb at the same time. and again, FB has PLENTY of tools to deal with pewpew. full minstrel fb is easily over 3000armor correct? probably more like 3200 iirc. add protection, aegis, 1 dodge and the dmg you’re likely to deal to a minstrel is closer to 25-30% at best, if he doesn’t just block it.

>

> killing noobs who don’t know what they are doing doesn’t mean anything. pulling a build off discord playing it for 20 hours on fb and thinking you’re gonna be immortal is just silly. if you want that i’d refer you to minstrel auramancer tempest lmao.

Thinking armor will automatically protect you is equally silly. Its effectivly nullified by just the voulnerability stacks. Hell the other day a reaper autoattacked me for 4-8k and yes, thats on 3200 armor.

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> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > All this being said, a full Minstrel Guardian can be 100-0 by Rapid Fire + OWP on full memebeast setup, but sure there is nothing to see here right? Wasn't the point of the Feb. patch to bring this sort of stuff in line, but while targeted nerfs were what was needed we instead got blanket 20-35% damage reductions that were not even levied evenly across the classes.

> >

> > i would love to see an example of this actually happening cus i have yet to pull that off unless a chrono is boon ripping the kitten out of the fb at the same time. and again, FB has PLENTY of tools to deal with pewpew. full minstrel fb is easily over 3000armor correct? probably more like 3200 iirc. add protection, aegis, 1 dodge and the dmg you’re likely to deal to a minstrel is closer to 25-30% at best, if he doesn’t just block it.

> >

> > killing noobs who don’t know what they are doing doesn’t mean anything. pulling a build off discord playing it for 20 hours on fb and thinking you’re gonna be immortal is just silly. if you want that i’d refer you to minstrel auramancer tempest lmao.

> Thinking armor will automatically protect you is equally silly. Its effectivly nullified by just the voulnerability stacks. Hell the other day a reaper autoattacked me for 4-8k and yes, thats on 3200 armor.

 

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > All this being said, a full Minstrel Guardian can be 100-0 by Rapid Fire + OWP on full memebeast setup, but sure there is nothing to see here right? Wasn't the point of the Feb. patch to bring this sort of stuff in line, but while targeted nerfs were what was needed we instead got blanket 20-35% damage reductions that were not even levied evenly across the classes.

> >

> > i would love to see an example of this actually happening cus i have yet to pull that off unless a chrono is boon ripping the kitten out of the fb at the same time. and again, FB has PLENTY of tools to deal with pewpew. full minstrel fb is easily over 3000armor correct? probably more like 3200 iirc. add protection, aegis, 1 dodge and the dmg you’re likely to deal to a minstrel is closer to 25-30% at best, if he doesn’t just block it.

> >

> > killing noobs who don’t know what they are doing doesn’t mean anything. pulling a build off discord playing it for 20 hours on fb and thinking you’re gonna be immortal is just silly. if you want that i’d refer you to minstrel auramancer tempest lmao.

> Thinking armor will automatically protect you is equally silly. Its effectivly nullified by just the voulnerability stacks. Hell the other day a reaper autoattacked me for 4-8k and yes, thats on 3200 armor.

 

yea and one time i got 1shot by full soldiers warrior eviscerate. anything can happen mid fight with other people around.

 

rapidfire applies 1 single stack of vuln per HIT, so you only have 10 stacks at the END of RF. so your argument is kitten. you’re getting less than 10% dmg from vuln stacks on the RF. 2200 armor vs 2500 is gonna make a huge difference especially if you have access to protection.

 

according to you people, OWP sicem RF just instantly melts everything from full zerk stats weaver to full minstrel FB no matter what and it’s honestly hilarious how strong you think it is.

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Berserker/Marauder Longbow Soulbeast is countered by Soldier/Wanderer gear.

Soldier/Wanderer gear is countered by Condi Builds.

Condi Builds are countered by Berserker/Marauder Longbow Soulbeast.

 

Rock Paper Scissors guys!

 

That said: Neither Boonbeast nor Immob Druid are in line in terms of balancing (we are speaking about WvW here!). Both need further nerfs to sustain/cc. But Glass-Beast is simply countered by a Soldier/Wanderer template.

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> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > All this being said, a full Minstrel Guardian can be 100-0 by Rapid Fire + OWP on full memebeast setup, but sure there is nothing to see here right? Wasn't the point of the Feb. patch to bring this sort of stuff in line, but while targeted nerfs were what was needed we instead got blanket 20-35% damage reductions that were not even levied evenly across the classes.

> > >

> > > i would love to see an example of this actually happening cus i have yet to pull that off unless a chrono is boon ripping the kitten out of the fb at the same time. and again, FB has PLENTY of tools to deal with pewpew. full minstrel fb is easily over 3000armor correct? probably more like 3200 iirc. add protection, aegis, 1 dodge and the dmg you’re likely to deal to a minstrel is closer to 25-30% at best, if he doesn’t just block it.

> > >

> > > killing noobs who don’t know what they are doing doesn’t mean anything. pulling a build off discord playing it for 20 hours on fb and thinking you’re gonna be immortal is just silly. if you want that i’d refer you to minstrel auramancer tempest lmao.

> > Thinking armor will automatically protect you is equally silly. Its effectivly nullified by just the voulnerability stacks. Hell the other day a reaper autoattacked me for 4-8k and yes, thats on 3200 armor.

>

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > All this being said, a full Minstrel Guardian can be 100-0 by Rapid Fire + OWP on full memebeast setup, but sure there is nothing to see here right? Wasn't the point of the Feb. patch to bring this sort of stuff in line, but while targeted nerfs were what was needed we instead got blanket 20-35% damage reductions that were not even levied evenly across the classes.

> > >

> > > i would love to see an example of this actually happening cus i have yet to pull that off unless a chrono is boon ripping the kitten out of the fb at the same time. and again, FB has PLENTY of tools to deal with pewpew. full minstrel fb is easily over 3000armor correct? probably more like 3200 iirc. add protection, aegis, 1 dodge and the dmg you’re likely to deal to a minstrel is closer to 25-30% at best, if he doesn’t just block it.

> > >

> > > killing noobs who don’t know what they are doing doesn’t mean anything. pulling a build off discord playing it for 20 hours on fb and thinking you’re gonna be immortal is just silly. if you want that i’d refer you to minstrel auramancer tempest lmao.

> > Thinking armor will automatically protect you is equally silly. Its effectivly nullified by just the voulnerability stacks. Hell the other day a reaper autoattacked me for 4-8k and yes, thats on 3200 armor.

>

> yea and one time i got 1shot by full soldiers warrior eviscerate. anything can happen mid fight with other people around.

>

> rapidfire applies 1 single stack of vuln per HIT, so you only have 10 stacks at the END of RF. so your argument is kitten. you’re getting less than 10% dmg from vuln stacks on the RF. 2200 armor vs 2500 is gonna make a huge difference especially if you have access to protection.

>

> according to you people, OWP sicem RF just instantly melts everything from full zerk stats weaver to full minstrel FB no matter what and it’s honestly hilarious how strong you think it is.

 

Numbers don't lie mate. Sic'em, RF, OWP along with all the relevant modifiers from traits makes that combo hit for enough to kill most builds if all hits crit. The vast majority of that damage is due to Sic'em and OWP. It is a YMMV kind of thing on the RNG but you can make it so that the opening combo always crits:

 

Sample Tank setup:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABk6x3lJwoYbMM2IWePmLdA-zRJYjx/QUNE8cAC+fmEE-e

4333 armor, ~20k HP, -10% damage from food, -12% damage from signet.

Sample is just to showcase pushing defense values.

 

Sample Memebeast:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAMFlRwAZZsHmJO2W6vyBUA-zVJYiR1/p0kIIMhQFKgWmA26AEyfNC41C-w

Lead with Signet of the Hunt -> OWP -> PBS -> RF

 

Total Damage multiplier is x4.855 (not including fury, including 5 vuln from opening strike). So the combo versus our sample Full Minstrel tank is 25.5k damage versus 20k HP.

 

Now that was with a Guardian and not a Warrior.

 

Here is a sample tanky Warrior using Sentinel to bolster vitality instead of toughness.:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAc6FOSLWLfA-z1IY6o7vIqKEU9AEw/MJI-w

3896 armor, ~36k HP. -10% damage from food.

 

Sample Memebeast does 35,854 damage versus 35,772 HP.

A Minstrel warrior would get hit for 28259 damage versus 27,542 btw.

 

I could probably push that sample warrior's HP higher, but it wouldn't be a functional build.

 

In both of these protection would save them from the spike, but they would still get pounded by the follow up AA hits.

 

The point is Memebeast can be built in such a way that it can blow someone's hp away completely with very few CDs used. All it takes is two weapon skills, two utilities, and an elite. Versus someone not in heavy armor you probably do not need to lead with PBS or Sic'em in order to down them.

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That's some nice zerker versus standing still target math here. Unfortunately the game has a bit more to offer in terms of fight mechanics.

 

Besides that I have bad news for minstrel players: you play a build that relies on others to actually fight. This does not justify being unkillable 1v1. Your focus is at least playing as a duo with someone that can kill a target, but not to troll every single 1v1 you encounter. If you could sustain full zerk builds, then you would be the number one candidate for a hardnerf of your sustain skills.

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> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> That's some nice zerker versus standing still target math here. Unfortunately the game has a bit more to offer in terms of fight mechanics.

>

> Besides that I have bad news for minstrel players: you play a build that relies on others to actually fight. This does not justify being unkillable 1v1. Your focus is at least playing as a duo with someone that can kill a target, but not to troll every single 1v1 you encounter. If you could sustain full zerk builds, then you would be the number one candidate for a hardnerf of your sustain skills

 

Well I screwed up the beast link, but it was full Marauder stats, so not even 100% dps lol. That and it lead with PBS, so a target would be cc'd for part of the spike, so might as well be standing still.

 

The math is just to prove the point that Soulbeast can be built in such a way that it can blow through a full tank build. Someone not full Sentinel or Minstrel would be dead before they recovered from the cc unless they have a trait that kicks in at certain hp levels. Most of those got nerfed though.

 

Someone on a warclaw would get knocked off, and during the dismount you still use the warclaw armor value, so you die quickly in that case.

 

Most Soulbeasts don't take the signet from what I have seen though, so you can reverse spike them with earth runes (and I have, they don't get waved to when I stomp them, they get /laugh).

 

It's a build that absolutely can get high bursts even on full tank builds. Which is fine to some extent since full tank builds do need a counter, but the solution to that shouldn't be stacking damage modifiers with 20 strikes within 2 seconds.

 

Makes me wish armor ignoring power damage existed like in GW1, or at least armor penetration. Missed opportunity by Anet.

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> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

 

> The point is Memebeast can be built in such a way that it can blow someone's hp away completely with very few CDs used. All it takes is two weapon skills, two utilities, and an elite. Versus someone not in heavy armor you probably do not need to lead with PBS or Sic'em in order to down them.

 

Sorry.. when is your hypothetical guard vs memebeast engagement occuring?

 

Solo when they are running back to the zerg?

 

Otherwise Id love a PBS that ignores stab... and dmg that ignores group perma prot... and an unblockable stack that isnt consumed by each target/shield infront of the target guardian. Youd be lucky to hit that guardian with 2 penetrating shots - and then due to the way OWP works they wouldnt take that damage either.

 

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> @"Sandzibar.5134" said:

>

>

>

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

>

> > The point is Memebeast can be built in such a way that it can blow someone's hp away completely with very few CDs used. All it takes is two weapon skills, two utilities, and an elite. Versus someone not in heavy armor you probably do not need to lead with PBS or Sic'em in order to down them.

>

> Sorry.. when is your hypothetical guard vs memebeast engagement occuring?

>

> Solo when they are running back to the zerg?

>

> Otherwise Id love a PBS that ignores stab... and dmg that ignores group perma prot... and an unblockable stack that isnt consumed by each target/shield infront of the target guardian. Youd be lucky to hit that guardian with 2 penetrating shots - and then due to the way OWP works they wouldnt take that damage either.

>

 

In the interwebs.

 

More of a stand alone encounter. This is just a showcase of how memebeast can be built to override baseline defense in a scenario of full tank versus full glass.

 

The assumption here is the Soulbeast attacked first, not hard from 1500 away. But sure stab would negate a PBS, but not the cripple from opening Strike, which would satisfy the requirements for the 15% damage boost.

 

And yes, more targets would negate unblockable stacks, but then a Soulbeast should be smart enough to maneuver as well right?

 

If you want to compare a guardian roaming build, or warrior roaming build, then you'll end up with each RF+OWP doing more damage. The whole combo would be 50k then versus 2681 armor. Most builds don't have that much armor, and if they do they don't have 50k hp. Realistically you only need the first few hits of the combo to down someone.

 

But as I said, most Soulbeasts I've seen don't take the signet, so anybody carrying a block, reflect, or projectile destruction skill on a twitchy finger can negate the burst. Doesn't mean the burst isn't broken.

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> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > That's some nice zerker versus standing still target math here. Unfortunately the game has a bit more to offer in terms of fight mechanics.

> >

> > Besides that I have bad news for minstrel players: you play a build that relies on others to actually fight. This does not justify being unkillable 1v1. Your focus is at least playing as a duo with someone that can kill a target, but not to troll every single 1v1 you encounter. If you could sustain full zerk builds, then you would be the number one candidate for a hardnerf of your sustain skills

>

> Well I screwed up the beast link, but it was full Marauder stats, so not even 100% dps lol. That and it lead with PBS, so a target would be cc'd for part of the spike, so might as well be standing still.

>

> The math is just to prove the point that Soulbeast can be built in such a way that it can blow through a full tank build. Someone not full Sentinel or Minstrel would be dead before they recovered from the cc unless they have a trait that kicks in at certain hp levels. Most of those got nerfed though.

>

> Someone on a warclaw would get knocked off, and during the dismount you still use the warclaw armor value, so you die quickly in that case.

>

> Most Soulbeasts don't take the signet from what I have seen though, so you can reverse spike them with earth runes (and I have, they don't get waved to when I stomp them, they get /laugh).

>

> It's a build that absolutely can get high bursts even on full tank builds. Which is fine to some extent since full tank builds do need a counter, but the solution to that shouldn't be stacking damage modifiers with 20 strikes within 2 seconds.

>

> Makes me wish armor ignoring power damage existed like in GW1, or at least armor penetration. Missed opportunity by Anet.

 

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > That's some nice zerker versus standing still target math here. Unfortunately the game has a bit more to offer in terms of fight mechanics.

> >

> > Besides that I have bad news for minstrel players: you play a build that relies on others to actually fight. This does not justify being unkillable 1v1. Your focus is at least playing as a duo with someone that can kill a target, but not to troll every single 1v1 you encounter. If you could sustain full zerk builds, then you would be the number one candidate for a hardnerf of your sustain skills

>

> Well I screwed up the beast link, but it was full Marauder stats, so not even 100% dps lol. That and it lead with PBS, so a target would be cc'd for part of the spike, so might as well be standing still.

>

> The math is just to prove the point that Soulbeast can be built in such a way that it can blow through a full tank build. Someone not full Sentinel or Minstrel would be dead before they recovered from the cc unless they have a trait that kicks in at certain hp levels. Most of those got nerfed though.

>

> Someone on a warclaw would get knocked off, and during the dismount you still use the warclaw armor value, so you die quickly in that case.

>

> Most Soulbeasts don't take the signet from what I have seen though, so you can reverse spike them with earth runes (and I have, they don't get waved to when I stomp them, they get /laugh).

>

> It's a build that absolutely can get high bursts even on full tank builds. Which is fine to some extent since full tank builds do need a counter, but the solution to that shouldn't be stacking damage modifiers with 20 strikes within 2 seconds.

>

> Makes me wish armor ignoring power damage existed like in GW1, or at least armor penetration. Missed opportunity by Anet.

 

guardian uses shield projectile block after his stunbreak.. huh. if your reaction time is so slow you can’t press stunbreak and dodge after PBS hits you in a 1v1 scenario, i don’t know what to tell you. warrior breaks stun and uses shield 5... huh. ranger uses dolyak stance giving him 33% dmg reduction and uses GS 4 block... weaver uses earth invul, earth aura, or friggin any of the other multiple choices you they have. thief has 3 dodges... necro has 2 health bars, rev has evades, the dragon heal thing..

 

like come ONNNN there’s so many ways to deal with this stuff it’s getting old. i can’t believe people are talking about this without realizing they have played for 8 years and still suck? maybe you just met a ranger that was actually good and thought they got carried by build idk.

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> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> But as I said, most Soulbeasts I've seen don't take the signet, so anybody carrying a block, reflect, or projectile destruction skill on a twitchy finger can negate the burst. Doesn't mean the burst isn't broken.

 

Well if it was actually broken we'd be seeing a HUGE demand for unstoppable soulbeasts in groups in WvW.. Comms crying out for MOAR BOWS!

 

And super sweaty pro roamer / GvG squads like Cake Walk would use Soulbeast more in their self fellating promo vids. Theyve never used one. Not once.

 

If soulbeast was broken in sPvP then Boyce wouldnt be playing anything else in tournies and easymode Sind sure as hell wouldnt be on teef.

 

So. Respectfully I think you are utterly utterly wrong on how broken Soulbeast is.

 

Its good at killing bads and newbies, and thats it.

 

 

 

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You guys are missing the point entirely, lmao.

 

It's that Soulbeast is low risk, low effort.

You press one button, Dolyak Stance, and you're now immune to all CC with a Prot stacking effect that reduces Condi damage too. With one button you're doing more than half the builds in the game do with several.

And with memebeast you can blast through someones' health bar from a football field away, and cover the same distance in the opposite direction if they move toward you.

 

Nothing is as safe, low risk, and easy as being able to do 15 - 20k damage from 1500 range, with the option to run away if it fails before the target can even cover half that distance.

 

Because I know how defensive Ranger mains are, I again want to defend myself by saying **I'm not the one asking for nerfs here.** But if you can't accept that SlB, be it boon or glass, is one of the lowest effort, lowest risk things you can play in WvW, you're kidding yourself.

I'm a Necro main and think it's one of the easiest classes for beginners, that the core Unholy Martyr build needs to be deleted, and Lich is still broken even if it's easy to counter. Y'all need to learn to stop having biases for your classes if you want to actually discuss balance or you're not worth talking to.

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> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > That's some nice zerker versus standing still target math here. Unfortunately the game has a bit more to offer in terms of fight mechanics.

> > >

> > > Besides that I have bad news for minstrel players: you play a build that relies on others to actually fight. This does not justify being unkillable 1v1. Your focus is at least playing as a duo with someone that can kill a target, but not to troll every single 1v1 you encounter. If you could sustain full zerk builds, then you would be the number one candidate for a hardnerf of your sustain skills

> >

> > Well I screwed up the beast link, but it was full Marauder stats, so not even 100% dps lol. That and it lead with PBS, so a target would be cc'd for part of the spike, so might as well be standing still.

> >

> > The math is just to prove the point that Soulbeast can be built in such a way that it can blow through a full tank build. Someone not full Sentinel or Minstrel would be dead before they recovered from the cc unless they have a trait that kicks in at certain hp levels. Most of those got nerfed though.

> >

> > Someone on a warclaw would get knocked off, and during the dismount you still use the warclaw armor value, so you die quickly in that case.

> >

> > Most Soulbeasts don't take the signet from what I have seen though, so you can reverse spike them with earth runes (and I have, they don't get waved to when I stomp them, they get /laugh).

> >

> > It's a build that absolutely can get high bursts even on full tank builds. Which is fine to some extent since full tank builds do need a counter, but the solution to that shouldn't be stacking damage modifiers with 20 strikes within 2 seconds.

> >

> > Makes me wish armor ignoring power damage existed like in GW1, or at least armor penetration. Missed opportunity by Anet.

>

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > That's some nice zerker versus standing still target math here. Unfortunately the game has a bit more to offer in terms of fight mechanics.

> > >

> > > Besides that I have bad news for minstrel players: you play a build that relies on others to actually fight. This does not justify being unkillable 1v1. Your focus is at least playing as a duo with someone that can kill a target, but not to troll every single 1v1 you encounter. If you could sustain full zerk builds, then you would be the number one candidate for a hardnerf of your sustain skills

> >

> > Well I screwed up the beast link, but it was full Marauder stats, so not even 100% dps lol. That and it lead with PBS, so a target would be cc'd for part of the spike, so might as well be standing still.

> >

> > The math is just to prove the point that Soulbeast can be built in such a way that it can blow through a full tank build. Someone not full Sentinel or Minstrel would be dead before they recovered from the cc unless they have a trait that kicks in at certain hp levels. Most of those got nerfed though.

> >

> > Someone on a warclaw would get knocked off, and during the dismount you still use the warclaw armor value, so you die quickly in that case.

> >

> > Most Soulbeasts don't take the signet from what I have seen though, so you can reverse spike them with earth runes (and I have, they don't get waved to when I stomp them, they get /laugh).

> >

> > It's a build that absolutely can get high bursts even on full tank builds. Which is fine to some extent since full tank builds do need a counter, but the solution to that shouldn't be stacking damage modifiers with 20 strikes within 2 seconds.

> >

> > Makes me wish armor ignoring power damage existed like in GW1, or at least armor penetration. Missed opportunity by Anet.

>

> guardian uses shield projectile block after his stunbreak.. huh. if your reaction time is so slow you can’t press stunbreak and dodge after PBS hits you in a 1v1 scenario, i don’t know what to tell you. warrior breaks stun and uses shield 5... huh. ranger uses dolyak stance giving him 33% dmg reduction and uses GS 4 block... weaver uses earth invul, earth aura, or friggin any of the other multiple choices you they have. thief has 3 dodges... necro has 2 health bars, rev has evades, the dragon heal thing..

>

> like come ONNNN there’s so many ways to deal with this stuff it’s getting old. i can’t believe people are talking about this without realizing they have played for 8 years and still suck? maybe you just met a ranger that was actually good and thought they got carried by build idk.

 

You do see where I put unblockable in don't you? I may have screwed my link but I do call out the signet. All those players doing those actions would be dead except the rev, necro, and any who hit an invulnerable.> @"Sandzibar.5134" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > But as I said, most Soulbeasts I've seen don't take the signet, so anybody carrying a block, reflect, or projectile destruction skill on a twitchy finger can negate the burst. Doesn't mean the burst isn't broken.

>

> Well if it was actually broken we'd be seeing a HUGE demand for unstoppable soulbeasts in groups in WvW.. Comms crying out for MOAR BOWS!

>

> And super sweaty pro roamer / GvG squads like Cake Walk would use Soulbeast more in their self fellating promo vids. Theyve never used one. Not once.

>

> If soulbeast was broken in sPvP then Boyce wouldnt be playing holo/rev most of the time in mATs and easymode Sind sure as hell wouldnt be on teef.

>

> So. Respectfully I think you are utterly utterly wrong on how broken Soulbeast is.

>

> Its good at killing bads and newbies, and thats it.

>

>

>

 

That's because retaliation would eat them lol. That's a lot of retaliation procs.

Zerg v zerg versus small scale and roaming. Ranger has very limited value in zergs, but that is due to it's weapon sets favoring 1v1 matchups or having numerous strikes which retaliation punishes.

 

Soulbeast is strongest in roaming and small scale. And you are overestimating the skill level of the general player populace. Most of us here are probably all capable of holding our own versus such a build, but there are a large number of bad players in WvW. It's also a game mode where you can get pegged with your sustain on CD and out of dodges when another player shows up after you finished one fight just to down you.

 

 

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> @"Shroud.2307" said:

> You guys are missing the point entirely, lmao.

>

> It's that Soulbeast is low risk, low effort.

> You press one button, Dolyak Stance, and you're now immune to all CC with a Prot stacking effect that reduces Condi damage too. With one button you're doing more than half the builds in the game do with several.

> And with memebeast you can blast through someones' health bar from a football field away, and cover the same distance in the opposite direction if they move toward you.

>

> Nothing is as safe, low risk, and easy as being able to do 15 - 20k damage from 1500 range, with the option to run away if it fails before the target can even cover half that distance.

>

> Because I know how defensive Ranger mains are, I again want to defend myself by saying **I'm not the one asking for nerfs here.** But if you can't accept that SlB, be it boon or glass, is one of the lowest effort, lowest risk things you can play in WvW, you're kidding yourself.

> I'm a Necro main and think it's one of the easiest classes for beginners, that the core Unholy Martyr build needs to be deleted, and Lich is still broken even if it's easy to counter. Y'all need to learn to stop having biases for your classes if you want to actually discuss balance or you're not worth talking to.

 

This.

 

I play a Soulbeast. I can firmly say there are things on it that are broken. Those being OWP, Dolyak, Sic'em, and attack of opportunity.

 

I play a reaper. Lich form is broken. I personally feel that reaper has no tradeoff and is a straight upgrade and could use a stiffer tradeoff. Some things on core need buffing though.

 

I play a DH. Burn DH is broken af. Longbow is clunky and needs a rework though.

 

And I play warrior, warrior is in need of several buffs... Gunflame still hits hard, but hey at least Bulls Charge and all of hammer tickles now right?

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> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > All this being said, a full Minstrel Guardian can be 100-0 by Rapid Fire + OWP on full memebeast setup, but sure there is nothing to see here right? Wasn't the point of the Feb. patch to bring this sort of stuff in line, but while targeted nerfs were what was needed we instead got blanket 20-35% damage reductions that were not even levied evenly across the classes.

> > >

> > > i would love to see an example of this actually happening cus i have yet to pull that off unless a chrono is boon ripping the kitten out of the fb at the same time. and again, FB has PLENTY of tools to deal with pewpew. full minstrel fb is easily over 3000armor correct? probably more like 3200 iirc. add protection, aegis, 1 dodge and the dmg you’re likely to deal to a minstrel is closer to 25-30% at best, if he doesn’t just block it.

> > >

> > > killing noobs who don’t know what they are doing doesn’t mean anything. pulling a build off discord playing it for 20 hours on fb and thinking you’re gonna be immortal is just silly. if you want that i’d refer you to minstrel auramancer tempest lmao.

> > Thinking armor will automatically protect you is equally silly. Its effectivly nullified by just the voulnerability stacks. Hell the other day a reaper autoattacked me for 4-8k and yes, thats on 3200 armor.

>

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > All this being said, a full Minstrel Guardian can be 100-0 by Rapid Fire + OWP on full memebeast setup, but sure there is nothing to see here right? Wasn't the point of the Feb. patch to bring this sort of stuff in line, but while targeted nerfs were what was needed we instead got blanket 20-35% damage reductions that were not even levied evenly across the classes.

> > >

> > > i would love to see an example of this actually happening cus i have yet to pull that off unless a chrono is boon ripping the kitten out of the fb at the same time. and again, FB has PLENTY of tools to deal with pewpew. full minstrel fb is easily over 3000armor correct? probably more like 3200 iirc. add protection, aegis, 1 dodge and the dmg you’re likely to deal to a minstrel is closer to 25-30% at best, if he doesn’t just block it.

> > >

> > > killing noobs who don’t know what they are doing doesn’t mean anything. pulling a build off discord playing it for 20 hours on fb and thinking you’re gonna be immortal is just silly. if you want that i’d refer you to minstrel auramancer tempest lmao.

> > Thinking armor will automatically protect you is equally silly. Its effectivly nullified by just the voulnerability stacks. Hell the other day a reaper autoattacked me for 4-8k and yes, thats on 3200 armor.

>

> yea and one time i got 1shot by full soldiers warrior eviscerate. anything can happen mid fight with other people around.

>

> rapidfire applies 1 single stack of vuln per HIT, so you only have 10 stacks at the END of RF. so your argument is kitten. you’re getting less than 10% dmg from vuln stacks on the RF. 2200 armor vs 2500 is gonna make a huge difference especially if you have access to protection.

>

> according to you people, OWP sicem RF just instantly melts everything from full zerk stats weaver to full minstrel FB no matter what and it’s honestly hilarious how strong you think it is.

Damage mitigation difference of rapid fire against 2200 and 2500 armor is ~10%. I'm sure the target is jubilant his armor made such a huge difference.

 

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> @"Shroud.2307" said:

> You guys are missing the point entirely, lmao.

>

> It's that Soulbeast is low risk, low effort.

> You press one button, Dolyak Stance, and you're now immune to all CC with a Prot stacking effect that reduces Condi damage too. With one button you're doing more than half the builds in the game do with several.

> And with memebeast you can blast through someones' health bar from a football field away, and cover the same distance in the opposite direction if they move toward you.

>

> Nothing is as safe, low risk, and easy as being able to do 15 - 20k damage from 1500 range, with the option to run away if it fails before the target can even cover half that distance.

>

> Because I know how defensive Ranger mains are, I again want to defend myself by saying **I'm not the one asking for nerfs here.** But if you can't accept that SlB, be it boon or glass, is one of the lowest effort, lowest risk things you can play in WvW, you're kidding yourself.

> I'm a Necro main and think it's one of the easiest classes for beginners, that the core Unholy Martyr build needs to be deleted, and Lich is still broken even if it's easy to counter. Y'all need to learn to stop having biases for your classes if you want to actually discuss balance or you're not worth talking to.

 

I mean sure, but what roaming build is a "high effort" build anyways? Most of it ends up to be the most braindead stuff anyways. Not to mention putting effort into killing randoms is kinda pointless in this day and age. I would also further add that there's such bad balance between traits and skills within traits that if you're not picking the flavors of the month, that it almost feels like your handicapping yourself-- some traits are so good you'd be foolish not to take them, and some traits are so bad you'd be a fool to take it.

 

Necro has barely any stab, blocks or mobility so it makes sense that they have a few broken damage skills. Condi kitten core is indeed annoying and dumb, but it's little more than a nuisance. However, I find it strange that people get so angry because they found a necro that cannot be killed when thieves, rangers, or engis can break combat whenever and I play those 3 much more often than necro. Personally, I don't get how necro roaming works at all due to the mobility. I need to be carried by some get out of jail free cards.

 

I mean I guess warrior is kinda hard to play with all those nerfs?

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> @"Shroud.2307" said:

> You guys are missing the point entirely, lmao.

>

> It's that Soulbeast is low risk, low effort.

> You press one button, Dolyak Stance, and you're now immune to all CC with a Prot stacking effect that reduces Condi damage too. With one button you're doing more than half the builds in the game do with several.

> And with memebeast you can blast through someones' health bar from a football field away, and cover the same distance in the opposite direction if they move toward you.

>

> Nothing is as safe, low risk, and easy as being able to do 15 - 20k damage from 1500 range, with the option to run away if it fails before the target can even cover half that distance.

>

> Because I know how defensive Ranger mains are, I again want to defend myself by saying **I'm not the one asking for nerfs here.** But if you can't accept that SlB, be it boon or glass, is one of the lowest effort, lowest risk things you can play in WvW, you're kidding yourself.

> I'm a Necro main and think it's one of the easiest classes for beginners, that the core Unholy Martyr build needs to be deleted, and Lich is still broken even if it's easy to counter. Y'all need to learn to stop having biases for your classes if you want to actually discuss balance or you're not worth talking to.

 

While this is kinda true, ultimatively low risk/effort is much more a matter of what fights someone picks than what class/build someone plays. Pew pew soulbeast is so easy and low risk to play because it can deal a lot of dmg from safe spots such as towers or zergs and that's exactly what most of them do. But that type of gameplay is not exclusive to rangers. The vast majority of WvW players is looking for safe and easy fights, only ever engaging in combat with superior numbers. The epitome of easy and low risk gameplay - regardless of class. So pointing fingers at a paticular build when it comes to "easy and low risk" seems like hypocrisy to me.

Take away the external safety nets, pit someone alone against a bunch of hungry gankers and suddenly even those braindead easy to play builds aren't that easy anymore.

 

That being said, i do think Dolyak Stance is op and could use some nerfs (cd increase to 40-45s ), same with protection uptime of boon beasts (Protective Ward, Moa Stance, Dura runes - these things need to get looked at imo.) I'm fine with the dmg tho. I was advocating for Sic'Em nerfs in the past, but nowadays it doesn't seem to be that op anymore. Cerainly does not have to be a full tank to deal with it, dura rune and dodge roll tend to be enough of a counter (works also great vs other gank builds).

 

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

 

> I mean sure, but what roaming build is a "high effort" build anyways? [...]

 

As if it is any different for zerg builds ...

 

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> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > @"Shroud.2307" said:

> > You guys are missing the point entirely, lmao.

> >

> > It's that Soulbeast is low risk, low effort.

> > You press one button, Dolyak Stance, and you're now immune to all CC with a Prot stacking effect that reduces Condi damage too. With one button you're doing more than half the builds in the game do with several.

> > And with memebeast you can blast through someones' health bar from a football field away, and cover the same distance in the opposite direction if they move toward you.

> >

> > Nothing is as safe, low risk, and easy as being able to do 15 - 20k damage from 1500 range, with the option to run away if it fails before the target can even cover half that distance.

> >

> > Because I know how defensive Ranger mains are, I again want to defend myself by saying **I'm not the one asking for nerfs here.** But if you can't accept that SlB, be it boon or glass, is one of the lowest effort, lowest risk things you can play in WvW, you're kidding yourself.

> > I'm a Necro main and think it's one of the easiest classes for beginners, that the core Unholy Martyr build needs to be deleted, and Lich is still broken even if it's easy to counter. Y'all need to learn to stop having biases for your classes if you want to actually discuss balance or you're not worth talking to.

>

> I mean sure, but what roaming build is a "high effort" build anyways? Most of it ends up to be the most braindead stuff anyways. Not to mention putting effort into killing randoms is kinda pointless in this day and age. I would also further add that there's such bad balance between traits and skills within traits that if you're not picking the flavors of the month, that it almost feels like your handicapping yourself-- some traits are so good you'd be foolish not to take them, and some traits are so bad you'd be a fool to take it.

>

> Necro has barely any stab, blocks or mobility so it makes sense that they have a few broken damage skills. Condi kitten core is indeed annoying and dumb, but it's little more than a nuisance. However, I find it strange that people get so angry because they found a necro that cannot be killed when thieves, rangers, or engis can break combat whenever and I play those 3 much more often than necro. Personally, I don't get how necro roaming works at all due to the mobility. I need to be carried by some get out of jail free cards.

>

> I mean I guess warrior is kinda hard to play with all those nerfs?

 

For necro go Reaper and use Shroud 2 and Speed of Shadows to zip around, bonus mobility if you use speed runes. Corrosive Poison Cloud will surprise more rangers than rangers on the forums will care to admit out loud. I've used it before to dive into a camp with RI just to murder a ranger who thought they were safe from me. Stomped him to. With RI on the supervisor.

 

Warrior is in meh shape right now. I've made some builds that hold up well in fights, others that I want to do better that just don't. Constantly permeating through warrior traits and weapons to find things that work best.

 

Oddly enough the build that I ran as a warrior that did the best post Feb. nerf was a Sentinel build that used Arms to make up for the Precision and Ferocity loss on gear. Had enough Marauder pieces or runes to get to 50% crit chance with fury up, used burst precision and unsuspecting foe to get to 100% crit from there.

 

That and axe/axe + rifle.

 

They really nerfed rifle damage too much, but the vulnerability and immob from Leg specialist sneaks up on people more often than you would think. If Rifle damage was even 15% higher it would be a viable weapon overall outside of MemeFlame and MemeShot builds.

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> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

 

> As if it is any different for zerg builds ...

>

 

Yea sure.

 

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > > @"Shroud.2307" said:

> > > You guys are missing the point entirely, lmao.

> > >

> > > It's that Soulbeast is low risk, low effort.

> > > You press one button, Dolyak Stance, and you're now immune to all CC with a Prot stacking effect that reduces Condi damage too. With one button you're doing more than half the builds in the game do with several.

> > > And with memebeast you can blast through someones' health bar from a football field away, and cover the same distance in the opposite direction if they move toward you.

> > >

> > > Nothing is as safe, low risk, and easy as being able to do 15 - 20k damage from 1500 range, with the option to run away if it fails before the target can even cover half that distance.

> > >

> > > Because I know how defensive Ranger mains are, I again want to defend myself by saying **I'm not the one asking for nerfs here.** But if you can't accept that SlB, be it boon or glass, is one of the lowest effort, lowest risk things you can play in WvW, you're kidding yourself.

> > > I'm a Necro main and think it's one of the easiest classes for beginners, that the core Unholy Martyr build needs to be deleted, and Lich is still broken even if it's easy to counter. Y'all need to learn to stop having biases for your classes if you want to actually discuss balance or you're not worth talking to.

> >

> > I mean sure, but what roaming build is a "high effort" build anyways? Most of it ends up to be the most braindead stuff anyways. Not to mention putting effort into killing randoms is kinda pointless in this day and age. I would also further add that there's such bad balance between traits and skills within traits that if you're not picking the flavors of the month, that it almost feels like your handicapping yourself-- some traits are so good you'd be foolish not to take them, and some traits are so bad you'd be a fool to take it.

> >

> > Necro has barely any stab, blocks or mobility so it makes sense that they have a few broken damage skills. Condi kitten core is indeed annoying and dumb, but it's little more than a nuisance. However, I find it strange that people get so angry because they found a necro that cannot be killed when thieves, rangers, or engis can break combat whenever and I play those 3 much more often than necro. Personally, I don't get how necro roaming works at all due to the mobility. I need to be carried by some get out of jail free cards.

> >

> > I mean I guess warrior is kinda hard to play with all those nerfs?

>

> For necro go Reaper and use Shroud 2 and Speed of Shadows to zip around, bonus mobility if you use speed runes. Corrosive Poison Cloud will surprise more rangers than rangers on the forums will care to admit out loud. I've used it before to dive into a camp with RI just to murder a ranger who thought they were safe from me. Stomped him to. With RI on the supervisor.

>

> Warrior is in meh shape right now. I've made some builds that hold up well in fights, others that I want to do better that just don't. Constantly permeating through warrior traits and weapons to find things that work best.

>

> Oddly enough the build that I ran as a warrior that did the best post Feb. nerf was a Sentinel build that used Arms to make up for the Precision and Ferocity loss on gear. Had enough Marauder pieces or runes to get to 50% crit chance with fury up, used burst precision and unsuspecting foe to get to 100% crit from there.

>

> That and axe/axe + rifle.

>

> They really nerfed rifle damage too much, but the vulnerability and immob from Leg specialist sneaks up on people more often than you would think. If Rifle damage was even 15% higher it would be a viable weapon overall outside of MemeFlame and MemeShot builds.

 

That's some interesting stuff right there, thanks. Already use Speed of Shadows. I've always been too worried about the self-condis, but better than being shot to death.

 

Also GL with the warrior testing; will be waiting for it or Anet lol.

 

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> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said:

> > > > > > > > iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)

> > > > > > > > "asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffs

> > > > > > > I'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.

> > > > > > > Learn the difference.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > show me where i ask for a nerf

> > > > > > i await your quote

> > > > > Sure my pleasure, the ones in the first page of the subforum.

> > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/120143/nerfs-the-ranger-class-as-a-whole-needs-please-anet

> > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109880/druids-need-the-pets-to-have-returned-the-20-stats-druids-shouldnt-have-access-to-pets-actives

> > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109878/trait-ancient-seeds-needs-to-be-deleted-from-the-game-asap-perma-immob-ranger

> > > > > Happy now?

> > > >

> > > > o......k........?

> > > >

> > > > first) i'm in none of these threads

> > > > second) i didn't ask for a nerf, ever

> > > > third) what is actually your point?

> > > >

> > > > i reply to a guy which, to me, was one of the most dumbest suggestions i have ever read (who is willing to spend 800 gemsworth of templates , and a full equipmen just to return to his squad?)

> > > >

> > > > it is you, soulbeast mains who band together and try to defend your class.

> > > > that alone says enough

> > >

> > > no dude, you’re deflecting and refusing all the advice we are giving you. as someone who has played the pewpew full zerk sicem build multiple times, swapped back and forth, ik exactly how to counter it and deal with it. stunbreak, evade, block, teleport. you’re safe.

> > >

> > > if you already are using both templates and both of them are full zerk, excuse me but kitten are you doing??? i’m not telling you to buy new template, but if you’re not utilizing both templates and only play full zerk you really have no valid against 1shots as you’re 100% asking for it, because you can dish out just as much dmg as soulbeast, except in aoe rather than single target.

> > >

> > > it’s just crazy to me. sicem burst used to be WAYYYYY worse and WAYYY more OP. it used to deal 40% extra dmg instead of 25%, it used be 4s unblockable every 10s. now power coefficients and flat dmg is reduced, no more unblockable, worse coefficients, 25% dmg increase. if you wanna play full friggin zerk, EXPECT to get 1shot and pewpewd.

> >

> > this might sound strange to you, but there are game modes outside of wvw

> > different gear, different traits you know the drill

> >

> > i could however visit the bank first before i head into wvw. bank tabs are less then 800 gems so it could save me some gold. drop all my gear there then i can pick nomad stats

> >

> > solid advice afterall

>

> you ask for advice but you don’t wanna listen. make fun of all our advice all you want, but you’re the only one here dying to noob stomper builds.

>

> obviously nomads is an exaggeration. get a set with around 2500 armor and sicem pewpew won’t harm you anymore. get the protection + stab cantrip utility and their dmg is basically gone. stop making all these excuses. again, make fun of my tips all you want, YOU’RE the one losing, dying and complaining on the forums, not me.

 

i not once said that i die to it. i not once said that i died it

just that your suggestion of spending 800 gems on templates (because not a single person has unused templates) is dumb.

 

i'm not the one complaining, you are the one defending.

not my thread, not my complaint yet on everything soulbeast related i find you.

 

enjoy your new years eve, yes even you

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If you're dying to pew you're simply, uber bad.

Pew has so many counters... this post has to be a joke right?

As a ranger main since beta weekends, I can remember pew ranger being OP only on the first no downed state event. Since then it's been meh, not even a meme.

Ranger/Soulbeast actually have a few completely broken builds (not boonbeast) that are harder to play right, so many don't even bother to try it.

If you want to nerf something so badly, start with boon and condi spam on many professions, which are the root cause of WvW being the sh.t fest that it is currently.

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