Idea: Next expansion, Norn centric Northern Shiverpeaks story. Braham villain?

[MrRuin.9740]

> @Karmapolice.4193 said:

> how much I hate not being in control of how my player character acts.

I agree. I couldn't get much into the story at all because of this. Usually turned the sound off and didn't pay much attention because the character the story portrays isn't my character and really breaks immersion.

I know they can't tailor dialogue or anything to every person, but I'd be happier with a Half-Life or Zelda situation where my character doesn't say anything and I can fill in my characters lines myself.

 

 

[blambidy.3216]

I don't think we will kill kralk in lws4. I think lws4 is the preparation to kill kralk or chain him up. The next expansion will actually be taking kralk down. Me personally is braham is the villain? I hope the devs don't make that happen. However if we get to kill him at the end because he betrays or is the big bad, I'll be happy. I'm tired of braham. Braham needs to go take it up in where the sun don't shine while choking on a anaconda. He's the worst character in gw2 developed.

[Torolan.5816]

Jormag is probably the smartest of the elder dragons all in all and the one dragon I can think of coming to peace talks with. Compared to Zhaitan and Mordremoth he is a silver tongued deceiver, a nearly friendly entitiy that gives himself the impression of being a benefactor to those already willing to fight hard. Kralkatorik and Primordus are forces of Nature who let no doubt open that their only goal is the comsumption of all magic and the de facto annhilation of all other sentinent beings, hard to negotiate with them. The DSD is either a total creampuff or his motivations are entirely alien to surface dwellers.

 

The writing for both Primordus and Kralkatorik is probably simple, survive this and survive that. Straightforward. To really get the potential of Jormag the story would have to massively eclipse the Zhaitan arc. So lets say Jormag is the next dragon to attack. we fight him a little, he gains some ground, we score a big victory over one of his major cronies or Braham actually wounds him bad enough that he really feels it. Thoughts of Zhaitan and Mordremoth arise, he knows that his kind can be killed by the really powerful heroes of the small races, and the pressure caused by his fellow dragons has waned on two fronts already. The norn already ralied against him, his position becomes weak. He already was about to clash with Pimordus, maybe he senses the chance that if the heroes kill Primordus, an eventuall successor in that position will for a very long time be unable to challenge him again. What would lie closer than offer a cease fire? Compared to lets say Joko Palawa, Jormag appears to me as more rational.

 

Of course this would require good writing, probably the story with Lazarus all over again and the question if a long time enemy can turn into a real ally. But this time with some sensical ending please.

[STIHL.2489]

The idea of Braham becoming the Villain seems to be the set up, I would imagine, something along the lines of hunting Jormag, and finding a way to awaken the dragon just so that he has the chance to kill it, but this of course sets the stage for Jormag to wreck havoc on the lands, and e discover that Jormag is not as easily defeated as the other dragons, but by this time Braham has gone insane with his need to avenge his mothers death and all dragons must die.. not for his own power, or own fame, but because that are evil and no matter what anyone thinks, they need to be destroyed, you can't just keep them asleep forever. So anyone that sides with the Dragons in Braham's mind is corrupted by them.

 

Well, anyway, in-between fighting Jormag, and Braham, several members of the Dragons Watch guild die, and of course this leads to a final showdown between Braham and the commander.

 

A Bloody.. Visceral.. final Showdown...

[Ubi.4136]

> @Karmapolice.4193 said:

> Playing through season 3 on some alts reminded me how much I hate Braham, and how much I hate not being in control of how my player character acts. I hope in Season 4 some random npc in Hoelbrek just casually mentions that Braham got run over by a dolyak and died. Then the player character can mutter "thank god" under their breath and Braham is never mentioned again.

> I should be writing for Anet.

 

This....so many times over.

[Jinroh.4251]

Braham can go suck eggs.

[EdSammon.1750]

Thanks a lot for all the feedback guys, it means a lot to see people reading my idea. So far a lot of people have concern over Braham being a villain (also a lot of Braham hate, cmon guys, he's young and confused) so I also thought of an alternative. Braham being puppeteer-ed by the leader of these wild norn and the leader trying to steal his dragon-slaying power and us saving him/waking him up from his whiney phase :tongue: .

 

Keep the feedback coming guys, I'm loving what you got.

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

If the script ends with him dead I don't care about the rest. Hopefully in the intro cinematic. He is not Eir, he has not replaced Eir, and he will never be the Norn she was at any level of character. This ill advised and poorly written "replacement" needs to be just done away with in a casual manner that makes him very forgettable.

 

Also get a new VA for Zoija and write Wesley out of the story. Have the inquest hold her for ransom and find out nobody will pay it.

 

[Ardid.7203]

> @smsarasin.3468 said:

> I guess I'm somewhat an outlier in actually liking Taimi and her snarkiness... I always enjoy her little jibes. I actually got a kick out of the whole 'poke it with a stick' running gag in PoF.

 

No, you are not. There have been numerous discussions on the forums and ingame about the favourite characters in GW2, and Taimi has consistently reached a high place there. Most people like her and her snarky jokes. Canach is well appreciated, as well, for similar reasons.

 

Braham, on the other hand, seems to not get much love from the players.

 

Just an example (Most discussions vary wildly, but in my limited experience, top tiers tend to stay high)

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/8157/your-favourite-story-character/p1

[Erulogos.2591]

> @Ardid.7203 said:

>

> Braham, on the other hand, seems to not get much love from the players.

 

Braham is either an angsty, whiney teenager-ish annoyance, or possibly on course to become Arthas Menethil 2.0: This Time With More Ice Yet Somehow Less Cool. He can winds up at either, or both, spots for fairly sensible reasons story-wise, but either way he's just not much fun.

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @EdSammon.1750 said:

> Thanks a lot for all the feedback guys, it means a lot to see people reading my idea. So far a lot of people have concern over Braham being a villain (also a lot of Braham hate, cmon guys, he's young and confused) so I also thought of an alternative. Braham being puppeteer-ed by the leader of these wild norn and the leader trying to steal his dragon-slaying power and us saving him/waking him up from his whiney phase :tongue: .

>

> Keep the feedback coming guys, I'm loving what you got.

 

Ooo have it so that the "Wild Norn" are not really Dragon Hunters at all, but follows of 'dragon' (like the Sons are) and are just using Braham to waken Jormag so that the great dragon an finish what it started by destroying the spirits.

 

So the whole story has the Commander trying to save the spirits and put Jormag back to sleep.

 

Braham. sadly.. now totally brainwashed.. accepts becoming Corrupted of Primordus, a ginormous champion of Rock and Fire (maybe looking a bit like the fiend of smoke and fire from Lord of the rings) so that he has a better chance to kill Jormag.

 

So now, a few things hit..

 

1) The players need to Save the Spirits

2) They need to put Jormag back to sleep

3) They need to stop Primordus from coming to the surface, because his new herald has arisen.. in the form of a young norn.

[Zaltys.7649]

> @Erulogos.2591 said:

> Braham is either an angsty, whiney teenager-ish annoyance, or possibly on course to become Arthas Menethil 2.0: This Time With More Ice Yet Somehow Less Cool. He can winds up at either, or both, spots for fairly sensible reasons story-wise, but either way he's just not much fun.

Best thing that could happen to Braham at this point would be that he's written out for a couple of 'seasons' (he embarks on some personal quest to lands unknown, or whatever).

 

And when he returns in season six, it turns out that he's matured during his travels and is now a genuinely likable character.

 

[Palador.2170]

> @dusanyu.4057 said:

> Bhram will be back in Dragon's watch after he gets a wake up call

 

I really, REALLY hope not.

 

If the story is to carry any weight, actions need to have consequences. Look at all the people that died in the personal story, especially the mentors. Braham's actions are destructive, and the outcome of that shouldn't be handwaved away.

 

At the very least, he's going to get Rox or Garm killed, but survive (possibly due to their sacrifice). Do you really think that, after that and defiling the name of Destiny's Edge, that we should allow him to join us? Or that Rytlock wouldn't want to shoot him on sight? (If you wonder why Rytlock would care about Garm, go look through his office in the Black Citadel sometime.)

 

And that one death is the BEST he should be able to get away with. It's far more likely he'll get them both killed, along with a large number of norn. And likely endanger the entire world in the process.

 

Taimi may cry (a bonus for all Taimi haters), but he should NOT be allowed to join Dragon's Watch. And the name of Destiny's Edge needs to be publicly stripped from him by the old members. Then, if he's still alive, he can go into exile. His name stricken from history, a mistake that the norn and the world would be best off forgetting ever existed.

[Shirlias.8104]

I don't think he would like to join and be friends again like this.

The character instead could decide to atone for his mystakes... and maybe rox could accompain him.

 

And there's no way that Braham is going to die.

Eir's Legacy can't end this way.

[Adenin.5973]

> @Torolan.5816 said:

> Jormag is probably the smartest of the elder dragons all in all and the one dragon I can think of coming to peace talks with. Compared to Zhaitan and Mordremoth he is a silver tongued deceiver, a nearly friendly entitiy that gives himself the impression of being a benefactor to those already willing to fight hard. Kralkatorik and Primordus are forces of Nature who let no doubt open that their only goal is the comsumption of all magic and the de facto annhilation of all other sentinent beings, hard to negotiate with them. The DSD is either a total creampuff or his motivations are entirely alien to surface dwellers.

>

> The writing for both Primordus and Kralkatorik is probably simple, survive this and survive that. Straightforward. To really get the potential of Jormag the story would have to massively eclipse the Zhaitan arc. So lets say Jormag is the next dragon to attack. we fight him a little, he gains some ground, we score a big victory over one of his major cronies or Braham actually wounds him bad enough that he really feels it. Thoughts of Zhaitan and Mordremoth arise, he knows that his kind can be killed by the really powerful heroes of the small races, and the pressure caused by his fellow dragons has waned on two fronts already. The norn already ralied against him, his position becomes weak. He already was about to clash with Pimordus, maybe he senses the chance that if the heroes kill Primordus, an eventuall successor in that position will for a very long time be unable to challenge him again. What would lie closer than offer a cease fire? Compared to lets say Joko Palawa, Jormag appears to me as more rational.

>

> Of course this would require good writing, probably the story with Lazarus all over again and the question if a long time enemy can turn into a real ally. But this time with some sensical ending please.

 

Wow, never thought of that. But this would be pretty cool, to negotiate with an elder dragon, possibly make an alliance with him against a even bigger threat just to find out how devilish clever Jormag really is.

 

When he betrays us, breaks the alliance after we dealt for him with the common foe and just made him ten times more powerful than before.

When we, the hero, suddenly realize that the entire time we slaughtered willfully for the evil elder dragon, that all those who warned us of an alliance and then finally even fought against us and the elder dragon were right from the beginning. When our hero suddenly turns into the anti hero, despised for the pact with the devil and what he has done for him.

 

Jormag could use us, then throw us away after he doesn't need us anymore, knowing that our own people will now deal with us and hunt us down because they think we betrayed them together with Jormag. When we have to stand trial before the races of Tyria for our "crimes". And when we finally get sentenced to death, the gods themselves intervene and rescue us. We then have to regain the trust of our former allies and rally new supporters together for our fight against Jormag.

 

Something like that could be a solid foundation for a new expac.

[Torolan.5816]

Dragon Watch and honorary members are full of irrational, potentially suicidal, dishonored, brash, griefstruck and irresponsible people. One is a former convict. Another one was publically dishonored. Another one was the bad apple in a basket full of good apples(Marjory). One who is a high ranking officer with his legion has a problem with authorities. One actively hid the possible key to the destruction of Mordremoth and came away with some lame excuses. One is a child that opposes her (admittedly a total dork) supervisor and risks the destruction of as good as everything.

 

If i would throw people out, I would start with Caithe and Rytlock. all they have as advantage over Braham is their seniority and experience, which makes it all the more worse to be honest. Especially with Caithe when you look how wise the largest majority of the firstborn Sylvari are. Even Faolain, although a bad apple was certainly neither gullible or naive.

[Ardid.7203]

> @Palador.2170 said:

> > @dusanyu.4057 said:

> > Bhram will be back in Dragon's watch after he gets a wake up call

>

> I really, REALLY hope not.

>

> **If the story is to carry any weight, actions need to have consequences.** Look at all the people that died in the personal story, especially the mentors. Braham's actions are destructive, and the outcome of that shouldn't be handwaved away.

>

> At the very least, he's going to get Rox or Garm killed, but survive (possibly due to their sacrifice). Do you really think that, after that and defiling the name of Destiny's Edge, that we should allow him to join us? Or that Rytlock wouldn't want to shoot him on sight? (If you wonder why Rytlock would care about Garm, go look through his office in the Black Citadel sometime.)

>

> And that one death is the BEST he should be able to get away with. It's far more likely he'll get them both killed, along with a large number of norn. And likely endanger the entire world in the process.

>

> Taimi may cry (a bonus for all Taimi haters), but he should NOT be allowed to join Dragon's Watch. And the name of Destiny's Edge needs to be publicly stripped from him by the old members. Then, if he's still alive, he can go into exile. His name stricken from history, a mistake that the norn and the world would be best off forgetting ever existed.

 

Actions don't have consequences in this story since long ago. Look at what happened with Caithe.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

> @Ardid.7203 said:

> > @Palador.2170 said:

> > > @dusanyu.4057 said:

> > > Bhram will be back in Dragon's watch after he gets a wake up call

> >

> > I really, REALLY hope not.

> >

> > **If the story is to carry any weight, actions need to have consequences.** Look at all the people that died in the personal story, especially the mentors. Braham's actions are destructive, and the outcome of that shouldn't be handwaved away.

> >

> > At the very least, he's going to get Rox or Garm killed, but survive (possibly due to their sacrifice). Do you really think that, after that and defiling the name of Destiny's Edge, that we should allow him to join us? Or that Rytlock wouldn't want to shoot him on sight? (If you wonder why Rytlock would care about Garm, go look through his office in the Black Citadel sometime.)

> >

> > And that one death is the BEST he should be able to get away with. It's far more likely he'll get them both killed, along with a large number of norn. And likely endanger the entire world in the process.

> >

> > Taimi may cry (a bonus for all Taimi haters), but he should NOT be allowed to join Dragon's Watch. And the name of Destiny's Edge needs to be publicly stripped from him by the old members. Then, if he's still alive, he can go into exile. His name stricken from history, a mistake that the norn and the world would be best off forgetting ever existed.

>

> Actions don't have consequences in this story since long ago. Look at what happened with Caithe.

 

This.

 

Heck, even Bitter Harvest in HoT doesn't have any consequence because regardless of who you save first, Logan is walking later on in Episode 4 of LWS3. If actions did have consequences then me saving Zojja first would have had some impact on the story. She'd be walking around instead of Logan.

 

As it stands, Anet should just abandon the concept of giving us choices if they don't even matter in the end. As far as I'm concerned, the PC in the story is not my character anymore but just another main NPC that's used for feeding the story to us (because my PC's would have booted Rytlock and Caithe on their asses at the start of Episode 1 of LWS3). At the very least, Anet seem to have acknowledged this in PoF in that all choice has a bearing on is dialogue and back collection unlocks instead of actual story impact.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

Here's an idea; have dungeons? hello?

[Vyrulisse.1246]

Braham just needs to go away. He's a horrible and cringey character and always has been.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

I would only be okay with seeing more of Shiverpeak if:

1. Not much norn seen personally.

2. No Dredge. At all. None.

3. A lot of the Kodans and learning even more about them and their land in the north of those that didn't migrate south.

4. Maybe areas where we actually snowing? Then again I would guess they don't have anywhere that snow or... I was going to say for performance issues they didn't allow snow or rain or whichever, but that didn't stop them with making all those sandstorms in Drytop. So yes... falling snow?

5. Finally getting a look of Jormag

[EdSammon.1750]

I'm seeing a lot of people talking with each other and asking questions about what could happen to Braham and Jormag, My idea explains what could happen to these characters but it was a while ago so i'll repost it here.

 

So i had an idea for the next expansion, will try to avoid spoilers as much as possible.

 

So after PoF, we know that the next Living Story season will deal with Kralkatorrik. So my idea is that near the end of the LS, AFTER dealing with the crystal dragon, there's a huge rumble in the world and Taimi tells us that there's an energy spike in the Northern Shiverpeaks.

 

We then get a message from Rox saying that Braham found a group of wild Norn who didn't flee south and have been fighting Jormag all this time, and they helped him find Jormag and kill it in it's sleep.

 

These Norn are fanatics, all they know is fighting dragons and their minions, so they convince Braham to gather the rest of them into the first Norn army the world has seen, then lead a campaign to kill all of the rest of the dragons. When our PC attempts to explain to Braham that the dragons can't be killed, he refuses it, saying that we've been brainwashed and are in league with the dragons, using our relationship with Aurene as an example.

 

The main story of the expansion would be us, The Commander, allied with the races of Tyria, defending Aurene and the southern world from Braham and the first Norn army the world has seen. With the setting being the far Northern Shiverpeaks.

 

So that's my idea, if this is in the wrong place, please guide me to the right place and I'd love to hear feedback on the concept.

[TexZero.7910]

> @EdSammon.1750 said:

> So that's my idea, if this is in the wrong place, please guide me to the right place and I'd love to hear feedback on the concept.

 

So here's why that's highly unlikely. Male Norn are extremely susceptible to corruption from Jormag. It's very unlikely that any could fight him for a prolonged period of time and not become Sons Of Svanir. So that gets rid of that part.

 

Now for why as a character that's even less likely, Braham is strong willed, perhaps even more so than Jora was and as such it's even less likely that he'd make such a huge mistake as to follow any norn. He right now is all about being his own man and surpassing his mother's legacy. Sure he'd want to kill dragons but Jormag's gone meaning it's more likely that he returns to the fold as he has a dragon in reach that the can actually focus on for the time being. During this time i fully expect a coming to blows with the commander, braham and rox. It's likely that Rox will be injured in some form (non-lethal) which will bring the commander and braham to a united front.

 

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

If something horrible happens to Rox this is one commander who would shrug and smile over one more dead Charr. And then quit the story over an attempt to manipulate me to like or care about an NPC I pretty much despise. I rarely bother with the LS now because of this, the maddening motives and "friendships" assigned to my Character that simply are too untrue to deal with. Have not quite reached this point with PoF, but the walkie talkie garbage is getting me there.