Please Areanet, Fix the Mesmer !

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > As I recall, people didn't like it when Mirage could time its skills to chain blocks, evade utiliies, dodge evades, and distortions. Well timed play could make it pretty hard to damage. That said, it always has solid counters when facing skilled opponents.

> >

> > Yet permaevade Daredevil with 3 base dodges is perfectly fine and doesn't need a nerf.

>

> Hehe Sadly, Mes cant have nice things )

 

...except when "permaevade daredevil" was actually what you're claiming it was, it got nerfed too?

 

> @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > @"Woltarion.6829" said:

> > > @"Every day pon.5386" said:

> > > Who is to know if the profession will be updated by Mesmer players? The profession runs the risk of being worse off after another haphazard revision, so maybe the profession is safer & better off forgotten ?‍♀️

> >

> > How could Mesmer become worse ? We just want our second dodge back

>

> we just want a CORE mechanic back

 

Play CORE mesmer then?

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > > As I recall, people didn't like it when Mirage could time its skills to chain blocks, evade utiliies, dodge evades, and distortions. Well timed play could make it pretty hard to damage. That said, it always has solid counters when facing skilled opponents.

> > >

> > > Yet permaevade Daredevil with 3 base dodges is perfectly fine and doesn't need a nerf.

> >

> > Hehe Sadly, Mes cant have nice things )

>

> ...except when "permaevade daredevil" was actually what you're claiming it was, it got nerfed too?

>

> > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > > @"Woltarion.6829" said:

> > > > @"Every day pon.5386" said:

> > > > Who is to know if the profession will be updated by Mesmer players? The profession runs the risk of being worse off after another haphazard revision, so maybe the profession is safer & better off forgotten ?‍♀️

> > >

> > > How could Mesmer become worse ? We just want our second dodge back

> >

> > we just want a CORE mechanic back

>

> Play CORE mesmer then?

 

Core mechanic = dodge. Nothing to do with core traits.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > > > As I recall, people didn't like it when Mirage could time its skills to chain blocks, evade utiliies, dodge evades, and distortions. Well timed play could make it pretty hard to damage. That said, it always has solid counters when facing skilled opponents.

> > > >

> > > > Yet permaevade Daredevil with 3 base dodges is perfectly fine and doesn't need a nerf.

> > >

> > > Hehe Sadly, Mes cant have nice things )

> >

> > ...except when "permaevade daredevil" was actually what you're claiming it was, it got nerfed too?

> >

> > > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > > > @"Woltarion.6829" said:

> > > > > @"Every day pon.5386" said:

> > > > > Who is to know if the profession will be updated by Mesmer players? The profession runs the risk of being worse off after another haphazard revision, so maybe the profession is safer & better off forgotten ?‍♀️

> > > >

> > > > How could Mesmer become worse ? We just want our second dodge back

> > >

> > > we just want a CORE mechanic back

> >

> > Play CORE mesmer then?

>

> Core mechanic = dodge. Nothing to do with core traits.

 

I know, but the especs can and do influence core mechanics too. I didn't write anything about traits, so not sure what you're responding to.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > > > > As I recall, people didn't like it when Mirage could time its skills to chain blocks, evade utiliies, dodge evades, and distortions. Well timed play could make it pretty hard to damage. That said, it always has solid counters when facing skilled opponents.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yet permaevade Daredevil with 3 base dodges is perfectly fine and doesn't need a nerf.

> > > >

> > > > Hehe Sadly, Mes cant have nice things )

> > >

> > > ...except when "permaevade daredevil" was actually what you're claiming it was, it got nerfed too?

> > >

> > > > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > > > > @"Woltarion.6829" said:

> > > > > > @"Every day pon.5386" said:

> > > > > > Who is to know if the profession will be updated by Mesmer players? The profession runs the risk of being worse off after another haphazard revision, so maybe the profession is safer & better off forgotten ?‍♀️

> > > > >

> > > > > How could Mesmer become worse ? We just want our second dodge back

> > > >

> > > > we just want a CORE mechanic back

> > >

> > > Play CORE mesmer then?

> >

> > Core mechanic = dodge. Nothing to do with core traits.

>

> I know, but the especs can and do influence core mechanics too. I didn't write anything about traits, so not sure what you're responding to.

 

Right, i meant specs, not traits. My bad. It was late.

 

Core mechanic means a mechanic that is universal across all professions, meaning dodge.

Yes, some especs can change it such as Mirage and Daredevil, but it should never fall below 2 for the simple reason that all the AOE sizes, all the skills, specs and indeed traits are balanced around being able to use 2 dodges, to either dodge once then have 1 available or double dodge to get out of a large AOE. Removing the ability to double dodge and having the 1 remaining be on such a long cooldown killed the Mirage. Not to mention how jarring it is to have to re-learn what everyone else takes for granted, and even if you kinda learn it, you're still at such a huge disadvantage that it's not even funny.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > > > > > As I recall, people didn't like it when Mirage could time its skills to chain blocks, evade utiliies, dodge evades, and distortions. Well timed play could make it pretty hard to damage. That said, it always has solid counters when facing skilled opponents.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yet permaevade Daredevil with 3 base dodges is perfectly fine and doesn't need a nerf.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hehe Sadly, Mes cant have nice things )

> > > >

> > > > ...except when "permaevade daredevil" was actually what you're claiming it was, it got nerfed too?

> > > >

> > > > > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > > > > > @"Woltarion.6829" said:

> > > > > > > @"Every day pon.5386" said:

> > > > > > > Who is to know if the profession will be updated by Mesmer players? The profession runs the risk of being worse off after another haphazard revision, so maybe the profession is safer & better off forgotten ?‍♀️

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How could Mesmer become worse ? We just want our second dodge back

> > > > >

> > > > > we just want a CORE mechanic back

> > > >

> > > > Play CORE mesmer then?

> > >

> > > Core mechanic = dodge. Nothing to do with core traits.

> >

> > I know, but the especs can and do influence core mechanics too. I didn't write anything about traits, so not sure what you're responding to.

>

> Right, i meant specs, not traits. My bad. It was late.

>

> Core mechanic means a mechanic that is universal across all professions, meaning dodge.

> Yes, some especs can change it such as Mirage and Daredevil, but it should never fall below 2 for the simple reason that all the AOE sizes, all the skills, specs and indeed traits are balanced around being able to use 2 dodges, to either dodge once then have 1 available or double dodge to get out of a large AOE. Removing the ability to double dodge and having the 1 remaining be on such a long cooldown killed the Mirage. Not to mention how jarring it is to have to re-learn what everyone else takes for granted, and even if you kinda learn it, you're still at such a huge disadvantage that it's not even funny.

 

So what you're doing right now is claim that you know what the game is *balanced around* (being "two dodges") better than anet themselves do, which is not only pretty random, but also false. If they were to revert that nerf, then it wouldn't be "because the game needs you to have 2 dodges to work", but because they determined the spec is too weak and needs help.

And mirage isn't really dead, it's just not as easly spammy as it initially was.

[Salt Mode.3780]

> So what you're doing right now is claim that you know what the game is *balanced around* (being "two dodges") better than anet themselves do, which is not only pretty random, but also false. If they were to revert that nerf, then it wouldn't be "because the game needs you to have 2 dodges to work", but because they determined the spec is too weak and needs help.

> And mirage isn't really dead, it's just not as easly spammy as it initially was.

 

the game was built upon 2 dodges in every profession if you want to understand why 2 dodges is important then i suggest you want JazzXman.7018's video

it will explain to you in detail why 2 dodges is important and is a fundamental core mechanic to the game itself. and 2 dodges is even more so considering mesmers have so many core traits that rely on dodging.

again with the spammy claim, mirages with 2 dodges was never spammy what made it seem spammy is sigil of energy and endurance food + vigor which mirages were able to use to max potential i mean daredevils can maximize the use of it as well, if you want to talk spammy classes with NO cd is called spammy for example thieves and even then they have initiatives that prevent them from being "spammy"

as far as balance goes the game hasent been balanced since pre expansion days and the main issue with the game is boons which never got touched on the huge balance update from 2019. when dmg numbers got crunched boons continue to run rampant into the game. for example pre expansion days it required combo fields to get certain boons or 2 staff guards and fire field to get 25 stacks of might, now a days a press of a button and u can achieve all the important boons in the game.

u talk about devs knows balance as far as im concern they havent released a balance patch tht shook the meta up. stop trying to kiss up and let them own up.

 

oh and because mirage dodge is stationary, the speed boost it gets will get hindered by cripple and chill. so if u dont understand what tht means it means if there r aoe fields with 1 dodge and even 2 sometimes u cant get away from the aoes.

 

PS. if mirage really only needed one dodge because espec reasons they would've done it upon release not wait nearly 2 years to remove it....

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > So what you're doing right now is claim that you know what the game is *balanced around* (being "two dodges") better than anet themselves do, which is not only pretty random, but also false. If they were to revert that nerf, then it wouldn't be "because the game needs you to have 2 dodges to work", but because they determined the spec is too weak and needs help.

> > And mirage isn't really dead, it's just not as easly spammy as it initially was.

>

> the game was built upon 2 dodges in every profession if you want to understand why 2 dodges is important then i suggest you want JazzXman.7018's video

it will explain to you in detail why 2 dodges is important and is a fundamental core mechanic to the game itself. and 2 dodges is even more so considering mesmers have so many core traits that rely on dodging.

> again with the spammy claim, mirages with 2 dodges was never spammy what made it seem spammy is sigil of energy and endurance food + vigor which mirages were able to use to max potential i mean daredevils can maximize the use of it as well, if you want to talk spammy classes with NO cd is called spammy for example thieves and even then they have initiatives that prevent them from being "spammy"

> as far as balance goes the game hasent been balanced since pre expansion days and the main issue with the game is boons which never got touched on the huge balance update from 2019. when dmg numbers got crunched boons continue to run rampant into the game. for example pre expansion days it required combo fields to get certain boons or 2 staff guards and fire field to get 25 stacks of might, now a days a press of a button and u can achieve all the important boons in the game.

> u talk about devs knows balance as far as im concern they havent released a balance patch tht shook the meta up. stop trying to kiss up and let them own up.

>

> oh and because mirage dodge is stationary, the speed boost it gets will get hindered by cripple and chill. so if u dont understand what tht means it means if there r aoe fields with 1 dodge and even 2 sometimes u cant get away from the aoes.

>

> PS. if mirage really only needed one dodge because espec reasons they would've done it upon release not wait nearly 2 years to remove it....

 

BAAM!!! Thank you for the facts! :)

 

Is it that hard for people to understand how unfair the mirage nerfs are? Even a 5 years old would get it... jeeez

[Veprovina.4876]

Yeah that video tells you pretty much all you need to know about the dodge nerf, if the forum arguments form pretty much everyone aren't convincing enough. :smile:

[AshkyLicious.4729]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> Yeah that video tells you pretty much all you need to know about the dodge nerf, if the forum arguments form pretty much everyone aren't convincing enough. :smile:

 

The only way peeps would understand this is if Anet remove one dodge from all the other classes aswell. That would actually be so much more fair atleast!

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"AshkyLicious.4729" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > Yeah that video tells you pretty much all you need to know about the dodge nerf, if the forum arguments form pretty much everyone aren't convincing enough. :smile:

>

> The only way peeps would understand this is if Anet remove one dodge from all the other classes aswell. That would actually be so much more fair atleast!

 

I would love to see that. So all the people that argue how mirage had cloak and that's somehow better than a dodge, have them use it for a month in WvW, let's see how OP it is. Especially with just one dodge.

 

And all the people that argue that the game isn't balanced around 2 dodges, let's remove a dodge in PvE as well and see how many raid wings and fractals get done and how people like being unable to double dodge out of an aoe. If nothing else, they'll see how awkward it is.

[Salt Mode.3780]

the only way for a stationary dodge work the same way as a normal dodge to evade aoe or multiple aoe is to give it superspeed instead of just a normal speed boon but honestly tht would be too strong so i dont mind it being hindered by cripple or chill

[Kodama.6453]

 

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> I know right? Especially because Null Field, the skill mesmer supports are kinda built around (if you want to boonstrip), can be blocked.

> It's the only boonstrip that can be blocked btw, all the other professions get to have their boonstrips uninterrupted, but not ours, cause screw Mesmers, we're OP witho our buggy skills, inconsistent profession mechanic and 2 dodges apparently... So why not just kitten us more with being unable to boonstrip like everyone else.

 

Null Field is not the only unblockable boonstrip. Making factually wrong statements doesn't really help your case.

 

Examples of Boonstrips which can get blocked besides Null Field:

* True Nature

* Mine Field

* Unholy Feast

* Dark Pact

* Enfeebling Blood

* Feast of Corruption

* Nightfall

 

That's not even all. The list goes on and on.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

>

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > I know right? Especially because Null Field, the skill mesmer supports are kinda built around (if you want to boonstrip), can be blocked.

> > It's the only boonstrip that can be blocked btw, all the other professions get to have their boonstrips uninterrupted, but not ours, cause screw Mesmers, we're OP witho our buggy skills, inconsistent profession mechanic and 2 dodges apparently... So why not just kitten us more with being unable to boonstrip like everyone else.

>

> Null Field is not the only unblockable boonstrip. Making factually wrong statements doesn't really help your case.

>

> Examples of Boonstrips which can get blocked besides Null Field:

> * True Nature

> * Mine Field

> * Unholy Feast

> * Dark Pact

> * Enfeebling Blood

> * Feast of Corruption

> * Nightfall

>

> That's not even all. The list goes on and on.

 

It's the only blockable utility skill.

[Salt Mode.3780]

it really amazes me how people list a bunch of skills without doing some research on what they are actually listing and calling out people "factually wrong"

[Terrorhuz.4695]

> @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> it really amazes me how people list a bunch of skills without doing some research on what they are actually listing and calling out people "factually wrong"

 

Well, it feels like it should be unblockable since it deals no damage. And proccing aegis instead of removing it is actually bad, since it still procs traits and runes.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Terrorhuz.4695" said:

> > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > it really amazes me how people list a bunch of skills without doing some research on what they are actually listing and calling out people "factually wrong"

>

> Well, it feels like it should be unblockable since it deals no damage. And proccing aegis instead of removing it is actually bad, since it still procs traits and runes.

 

Yes, that was the point. That Null Field should be unblockable and not proc Aegis since every other profession utility boonstrip is unblockable, and a lot of other boonstrips are too.

[Moradorin.6217]

> @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> the only way for a stationary dodge work the same way as a normal dodge to evade aoe or multiple aoe is to give it superspeed instead of just a normal speed boon but honestly tht would be too strong so i dont mind it being hindered by cripple or chill

 

Right its ok to have a trade off like getting to attack during the dodges evade frame in exchange for being more vulnerable to certain types of attacks like ground AoE and any large radius cleaves. But ohh wait that WAS the trade off before Anet decided to ignore it and say it didnt have one, and removed a dodge, etc, etc. Meanwhile many in the community are willing to suggest it was Ok for people who decided to run condi gear and not ok for people who run power gear which ultumatly muted the classes ability to object and actually helped kill the class. Good job all. Thanks everyone! LOL

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

> @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > the only way for a stationary dodge work the same way as a normal dodge to evade aoe or multiple aoe is to give it superspeed instead of just a normal speed boon but honestly tht would be too strong so i dont mind it being hindered by cripple or chill

>

> Right its ok to have a trade off like getting to attack during the dodges evade frame in exchange for being more vulnerable to certain types of attacks like ground AoE and any large radius cleaves. But ohh wait that WAS the trade off before Anet decided to ignore it and say it didnt have one, and removed a dodge, etc, etc. Meanwhile many in the community are willing to suggest it was Ok for people who decided to run condi gear and not ok for people who run power gear which ultumatly muted the classes ability to object and actually helped kill the class. Good job all. Thanks everyone! LOL

 

How is that a trade off when you are able to jaunt, port, or sword leap away from those things? Mirage dodge is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed if Mirage is to have two dodges.

[Moradorin.6217]

> @"Ronald McDonald.8165" said:

> > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > > the only way for a stationary dodge work the same way as a normal dodge to evade aoe or multiple aoe is to give it superspeed instead of just a normal speed boon but honestly tht would be too strong so i dont mind it being hindered by cripple or chill

> >

> > Right its ok to have a trade off like getting to attack during the dodges evade frame in exchange for being more vulnerable to certain types of attacks like ground AoE and any large radius cleaves. But ohh wait that WAS the trade off before Anet decided to ignore it and say it didnt have one, and removed a dodge, etc, etc. Meanwhile many in the community are willing to suggest it was Ok for people who decided to run condi gear and not ok for people who run power gear which ultumatly muted the classes ability to object and actually helped kill the class. Good job all. Thanks everyone! LOL

>

> How is that a trade off when you are able to jaunt, port, or sword leap away from those things? Mirage dodge is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed if Mirage is to have two dodges.

 

So your apparent counter argument is that Mirage should only have 1 dodge because it has utility skills that can add mobility to a build the same way that pretty much every class and elite spec has including core Mes and chrono along with thief, dd, de, guard, fb, dh, necro, reaper, scourge, rev, herald, renegade, ranger, druid, soulbeast, on and on. your point seems invalid.

[Senqu.8054]

Hadn’t 6 out of 8 classes more dodge then mirage before the one dodge nerf? xD

[Jables.4659]

> @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

 

> It was never brokenly overpowered with two prior to the 1 dodge nerf. Mesmer has always been noob stompers which I mean you ranting like this clearly shows that you have been derped hard by many mirage simply because you don't know how it works.

 

In its prime, Condition Mirage was a monster that dominated both spvp and small scale WvW. Power mirage had one of the strongest builds this game has ever seen with Staff Sword/Sword. The build had permanent protection, 25 might, fury, and a host of other boons with an incredibly strong power burst and solid sustained dps. It was essentially invincible in a 1v1 and its mobility was only surpassed by thief. This build's existence led to a number of core Mesmer nerfs including Bountiful Disillusionment, Sword phantasm, and Staff phantasm. To say that mirage was never brokenly overpowered is insane.

 

 

[Jables.4659]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

 

> rich coming from a guy that made post " struggling with revenant "

> that has problems with energy management on kitten herald off all things, you know. Elite that has 0 energy costs.

 

Who didn't have issues with energy management when they first started on Rev? You are genuinely trying to call out the wrong person here. I've known @"Strider.7849" for 8 years and know first hand how good he is with nearly every class in the game. I hate one-dodge-mirage just as much as you do, but pretending that the change was completely unwarranted doesn't help. It was absolutely the wrong way to stop cMirage from running a train on the current meta, but I would be shocked if cMirage got its second dodge back without other changes and doesn't dominate the meta.

 

Its been a common occurrence for people on the Mesmer forums to lash out at people who talk down towards cMirage. It almost always includes something along the lines of "You are not a real Mesmer player" or "You don't know anything about Mesmer". I'm still going to say it: Condition Mirage with 2 dodges performs way too well for how little skill is required to play it. I am aware that there are some genuinely skilled players who like Condition Mirage just as there are some genuinely skilled players who like Necromancer. It doesn't change the fact that Condition Mirage has historically been a spec that allows the Mesmer to play incredibly passively while dealing massive amounts of damage. When you can spend the majority of a fight running away, hiding in stealth, and evading/blocking/invulning while your opponent is killed by AI, we have a problem.

 

 

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

> @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > @"Ronald McDonald.8165" said:

> > > @"Moradorin.6217" said:

> > > > @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > > > the only way for a stationary dodge work the same way as a normal dodge to evade aoe or multiple aoe is to give it superspeed instead of just a normal speed boon but honestly tht would be too strong so i dont mind it being hindered by cripple or chill

> > >

> > > Right its ok to have a trade off like getting to attack during the dodges evade frame in exchange for being more vulnerable to certain types of attacks like ground AoE and any large radius cleaves. But ohh wait that WAS the trade off before Anet decided to ignore it and say it didnt have one, and removed a dodge, etc, etc. Meanwhile many in the community are willing to suggest it was Ok for people who decided to run condi gear and not ok for people who run power gear which ultumatly muted the classes ability to object and actually helped kill the class. Good job all. Thanks everyone! LOL

> >

> > How is that a trade off when you are able to jaunt, port, or sword leap away from those things? Mirage dodge is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed if Mirage is to have two dodges.

>

> So your apparent counter argument is that Mirage should only have 1 dodge because it has utility skills that can add mobility to a build the same way that pretty much every class and elite spec has including core Mes and chrono along with thief, dd, de, guard, fb, dh, necro, reaper, scourge, rev, herald, renegade, ranger, druid, soulbeast, on and on. your point seems invalid.

 

I literally never said any of those things, but acting like Mirage can't get out of AOEs is kind of silly. Mirage is the weakest class right now, but I don't agree though that adding the 2nd dodge back is what is good and healthy for the game. I have to agree with both Helseth and Shorts (which I think is pretty easy to say are the two best Mesmer players) that adding the 2nd dodge to Mirage will break the class and is toxic for the game. Unhealthy mechanics are not good for the game. Like most everyone else, I don't enjoy playing against unhealthy mechanics, so I don't find the solution to be to add more. I play Mesmer 99% of the time. Just because other classes have unhealthy mechanics, doesn't mean I want one too.

[Salt Mode.3780]

> @"Jables.4659" said:

 

> In its prime, Condition Mirage was a monster that dominated both spvp and small scale WvW. Power mirage had one of the strongest builds this game has ever seen with Staff Sword/Sword. The build had permanent protection, 25 might, fury, and a host of other boons with an incredibly strong power burst and solid sustained dps. It was essentially invincible in a 1v1 and its mobility was only surpassed by thief. This build's existence led to a number of core Mesmer nerfs including Bountiful Disillusionment, Sword phantasm, and Staff phantasm. To say that mirage was never brokenly overpowered is insane.

>

>

Prior to the one dodge nerf mirage was no longer at it's "prime" so I don't know where you are getting into. They had consistently nerfed mirage's vigor uptime. Also you basically proved my point in nerfing other means then nerfing a dodge. The problem was that IH allowed power to stack up to 25 might with multi target/multi clones where as condi was able to stack high amounts of burns and torment. THAT is where the nerfed should've been NOT removing a CORE mechanic. Also there are 2 PVP game modes SPvP and WvW which people seem to forget that they work completely different.

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

> @"Jables.4659" said:

 

> Its been a common occurrence for people on the Mesmer forums to lash out at people who talk down towards cMirage. It almost always includes something along the lines of "You are not a real Mesmer player" or "You don't know anything about Mesmer". I'm still going to say it: Condition Mirage with 2 dodges performs way too well for how little skill is required to play it. I am aware that there are some genuinely skilled players who like Condition Mirage just as there are some genuinely skilled players who like Necromancer. It doesn't change the fact that Condition Mirage has historically been a spec that allows the Mesmer to play incredibly passively while dealing massive amounts of damage. When you can spend the majority of a fight running away, hiding in stealth, and evading/blocking/invulning while your opponent is killed by AI, we have a problem.

>

>

Again a person who is jack of all trades vs someone who has mastered one has a significant difference in terms of skill level and mastery of the class. This proves my point in people bandwagoning the next meta class with the meta build being carried by it. The mentality of if I am playing a meta build and I lose to a class it means the class is OP. Condi mirage performs extremely well in a point node fight yes but in open world WvW you can simply ignore it and run away they really have no means to catch up to you unlike some of the other condi classes notably thieves and rangers. SPvP sigil of cleansing only clears 1 whereas WvW it clears 3, and the 3 that it cleanses are prioritized to burn torment and confusion. Again all of this is to nerf mirage cloak not a core mechanic. Just because a person played the game for 8 years does not prove that they are knowledgeable or that they are good at the game, so bringing that "8 years" is invalid.

 

In terms of the blocking invul I dont know where you are getting it from there are other classes that had way more evade blocks before the balance patch. Mirage cloak I guess just looks visually OP.

And in terms of clone AI I cant even begin expressing how many times my clone will derp to the nearest mob or veteran no where near where I am fighting, clones are extremely squishy and can be killed with aoe or even auto.

Ill say this again mesmer are noob stompers there are many players out there that have no trouble fighting against mirage pre-nerf.