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No use fighting it anymore


Kuma.1503

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Seems the nerf train is continuing with no signs of stopping. Instead of fighting it, I may as well add my own voice to the mob and maybe get something out of it.

 

Ahem:

 

Pls nerf condi trapper ranger. It's an unfun degen build. Entangle is a buggy mess with some skills not even being able to target roots properly. It has a decent tell, but this is completely negated when you can just cast from stealth. It's unfun cheese and does not belong in PvP.

 

Ty :)

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Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed?

 

Makes no sense.

 

Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well.

 

As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway.

 

Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done.

 

At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before...

 

It objectively wasn't.

 

 

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> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> Seems the nerf train is continuing with no signs of stopping. Instead of fighting it, I may as well add my own voice to the mob and maybe get something out of it.

>

> Ahem:

>

> Pls nerf condi trapper ranger. It's an unfun degen build. Entangle is a buggy mess with some skills not even being able to target roots properly. It has a decent tell, but this is completely negated when you can just cast from stealth. It's unfun cheese and does not belong in PvP.

>

> Ty :)

 

So the problem is the runes, not the build? This is literally the same issue as DH Trapper or any class that can be viable with rune cheese. This is why they don't listen to you, outside of them really not caring about the game mode - you make no sense and ask for nerfs for the incorrect things.

 

If ranger traps and entangle is trash outside of trapper runes, then it's trash (because it wouldn't be used ever without the runes and it's literally a gimmick) and shouldn't be nerfed and the rune should be nerfed. Otherwise, you're nerfing something that's trash and then when they nerf the runes eventually because it also makes other specs annoying, it'll continue to be trash.

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HP of the roots should be reduced by 33% (any summoned clutter actually needs the nerf bat) and the reapplication needs some work since cleansing and being rooted again by the same skill is dumb. Also yes I play this monkey ass build for the lolz, it is not busted as burn DH but I can cause someone permanent annoyance if I so choose.

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For me the problems with this build are:

* unblockable + pulsing + combo field + condi traps: Unblockable is way too powerful when most blocks have like 25-30 secs cd and only last 3 secs at best. Either remove the combo field but keep the condi, either remove the condi but keep the combo field. Stacking both is beyond stupid. And definitevely remove unblockable. Unblockable + pulsing is another kind of combo that should not exist on any skill.

* Shortbow. Have any of you noticed how fast sb AA cast? It's faster than renegade/thief sb AA by (extremely) far. Actually, I'm pretty sure it's the fastest AA in the game. Not only that but all ranger's sb skills have almost no cast and definitively have 0 animations. The whole kit is undodgeable.

 

I personally think entangle is fine. It's an elite, it's supposed to be broken/annoying. Actually, it works just like Chrono's elite. The problem is ancient seed. This trait enables any CC skill to function just like a 60s cd elite skill but on 20s cd. The trait should be deleted.

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> @"Shao.7236" said:

> Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed?

>

> Makes no sense.

>

> Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well.

>

> As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway.

>

> Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done.

>

> At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before...

>

> It objectively wasn't.

>

>

 

cuz whenever you make a good suggestion people will go " you are just bad at the class, class is good, trait is good whatever " l2p!

Kind of like you did with mesmer :)

This is how it works

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> @"Shao.7236" said:

> Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed?

>

> Makes no sense.

>

> Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well.

>

> As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway.

>

> Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done.

>

> At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before...

>

> It objectively wasn't.

>

>

 

Well... there are not specific suggestions cuz you cannot fix garbage by increasing damage of a skill by 5-10%. The whole system needs to be readjusted to the equivalent of infamous Feb 2020 balance patch. And the sentiment that damage is too low and the game is bunker haven is widely shared.

 

Keep in mind, most players who think the current spvp is garbage stopped playing and mostly posting. You are in the echo chamber of whoever is left. And even among this group, many think the balance is fucked up.

 

And regardless, you cannot balance a game by continuously nerfing and/or removing things. For the same reason you cannot balance a game by continuously buffing and/or adding things. This is why it is called “balance.”

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> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed?

> >

> > Makes no sense.

> >

> > Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well.

> >

> > As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway.

> >

> > Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done.

> >

> > At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before...

> >

> > It objectively wasn't.

> >

> >

>

> Well... there are not specific suggestions cuz you cannot fix garbage by increasing damage of a skill by 5-10%. The whole system needs to be readjusted to the equivalent of infamous Feb 2020 balance patch. And the sentiment that damage is too low and the game is bunker haven is widely shared.

>

> Keep in mind, most players who think the current spvp is garbage stopped playing and mostly posting. You are in the echo chamber of whoever is left. And even among this group, many think the balance is kitten up.

>

> And regardless, you cannot balance a game by continuously nerfing and/or removing things. For the same reason you cannot balance a game by continuously buffing and/or adding things. This is why it is called “balance.”

 

It's obviously true that you can't balance with just nerfs, but we won't start buffing until we hit everything that got the exception and people are good at finding that because that's the only way they can fight instead of persevering.

 

If they had to buff anything right this instant, it would be a few off hand dagger skills of elementalist along most their utility having awfully long CD's.

 

Call it echo chamber if you want, It could be my bias always playing Zerker all the time, but I have yet to feel like everything hits too softly as I ignore most tank builds unless it's neutral or my node, as to which I am able to sustain for a while or indefinitely depending on my build.

 

To me it feels more like people prefered the chaos over having to finally think behind their actions, because even I can admit to the fact that before feb most of what was played didn't have to get much reasoning to win anything, very often it's the build that win for being more cheesy than the other over the input of the players with the stats being completely out of hand.

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> @"Shao.7236" said:

> Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed?

>

> Makes no sense.

>

> Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well.

>

> As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway.

>

> Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done.

>

> At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before...

>

> It objectively wasn't.

>

>

 

Yeah, gameplay is "in an extremely good state now", thats why we saw a massive drop in players, and overall community opinion on the state is horrendous. Yes, the game *was* objectively better before. The February Patch basically destroyed PvP.

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> @"Shao.7236" said:

> Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed?

>

> Makes no sense.

>

> Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well.

>

> As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway.

>

> Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done.

>

> At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before...

>

> It objectively wasn't.

>

>

 

Gameplay is in such a good state right now that the playerbase has shrunk to a fraction of what it once was. It's so compelling that several would-be returning players have come to the forums asking "why has my favorite build been obliterated from existance"? only to resolve not to touch the game mode again.

 

Balance is so good that we've embraced burn dh as a necessary evil just so people can actually die. All we've done is identify problematic aspects of PvP and delete/smiter's boon them out of existance. That isn't fixing problems. It's sweeping them under the rug.

 

And then we sit here with the pile of garbage growing ever bigger and pretend that everything is fine.

 

Ahem-- pardon me I broke script there for a second...

 

Trapper ranger is unhealthy for the game. Pls nerf, ect. ect.

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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed?

> >

> > Makes no sense.

> >

> > Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well.

> >

> > As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway.

> >

> > Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done.

> >

> > At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before...

> >

> > It objectively wasn't.

> >

> >

>

> Yeah, gameplay is "in an extremely good state now", thats why we saw a massive drop in players, and overall community opinion on the state is horrendous. Yes, the game *was* objectively better before. The February Patch basically destroyed PvP.

 

I don't need to say it twice, if you're not happy to play with effort, you don't have to stay. I don't care if the game dies because of players leaving. I'm used to be people quitting easily and it wouldn't be the first time good things have gone away because they can't take it.

 

I've been here long enough to see the changes take effect unlike those whining the second they can't do exactly what they want, they leave. I'm gonna keep blaming the players until they are actually mentally challenged.

 

You can say the playerbase is dying because of the balance, I'll keep telling you it's because people can't have their mindless fun so they quit.

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> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed?

> >

> > Makes no sense.

> >

> > Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well.

> >

> > As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway.

> >

> > Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done.

> >

> > At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before...

> >

> > It objectively wasn't.

> >

> >

>

> Gameplay is in such a good state right now that the playerbase has shrunk to a fraction of what it once was. It's so compelling that several would-be returning players have come to the forums asking "why has my favorite build been obliterated from existance"? only to resolve not to touch the game mode again.

>

> Balance is so good that we've embraced burn dh as a necessary evil just so people can actually die. All we've done is identify problematic aspects of PvP and delete/smiter's boon them out of existance. That isn't fixing problems. It's sweeping them under the rug.

>

> And then we sit here with the pile of garbage growing ever bigger and pretend that everything is fine.

>

> Ahem-- pardon me I broke script there for a second...

>

> Trapper ranger is unhealthy for the game. Pls nerf, ect. ect.

 

The fact that a predominantly power elite, plays condi using a gimmicky rune, is the best build for guardian says it all about how fucking dysfunctional spvp has devolved.

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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before...

> >

> > It objectively wasn't.

>

> Yeah, gameplay is "in an extremely good state now", thats why we saw a massive drop in players, and overall community opinion on the state is horrendous. Yes, the game *was* objectively better before. The February Patch basically destroyed PvP.

 

@"UNOwen.7132" is objectively right. If you compare the amount of people playing now to before, it's dropped pretty drastically.

 

-All the polls on the Feb 25th balance patch and all subsequent patches usually end with the vast majority of people against them.(Like 3:1 if not higher)

-The bottom 45 ranks on the NA leaderboard are gold into the final week of Season 25 which is the all-time low i've ever seen them.(Playing since Season 2 and even when the queues were restricted to 2, 3, & 5 it wasn't this bad.)

-The standard for even being top 250 is 1,460 at the time of writing this. Again; one of, if not the worst turnouts ever for a Ranked conquest season.

 

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> You can say the playerbase is dying because of the balance, I'll keep telling you it's because people can't have their mindless fun so they quit.

 

They're entwined. The balance is actually horrible and boring so people are having less fun and then leaving when they get bored.

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> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed?

> > >

> > > Makes no sense.

> > >

> > > Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well.

> > >

> > > As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway.

> > >

> > > Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done.

> > >

> > > At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before...

> > >

> > > It objectively wasn't.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Yeah, gameplay is "in an extremely good state now", thats why we saw a massive drop in players, and overall community opinion on the state is horrendous. Yes, the game *was* objectively better before. The February Patch basically destroyed PvP.

>

> I don't need to say it twice, if you're not happy to play with effort, you don't have to stay. I don't care if the game dies because of players leaving. I'm used to be people quitting easily and it wouldn't be the first time good things have gone away because they can't take it.

>

 

Thats the issue though. Its the *opposite*. You used to have to play by putting real effort in pre-february patch. After the february patch? The game became utterly braindead. Just an absolute skillless spam fest where you use everything off cooldown and nothing ever dies anyway. And if you don't care if the game dies because of players leaving, then at best you're *selfish*.

 

> I've been here long enough to see the changes take effect unlike those whining the second they can't do exactly what they want, they leave. I'm gonna keep blaming the players until they are actually mentally challenged.

>

 

Evidently you're not actually seeing what the changes did. You also seem to misunderstand why players are leaving. Hint: the non-existence of skill in the current meta, and the fact that the meta is incredibly imbalanced and noone ever dies are major reasons.

 

> You can say the playerbase is dying because of the balance, I'll keep telling you it's because people can't have their mindless fun so they quit.

 

And you will be wrong every single time you say that. As you have been every single time you already have. The playerbase is dying because of both bad balance, and the fact that PvP is now just *mindless*.

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@"Multicolorhipster.9751" @"UNOwen.7132"

 

>Thats the issue though. Its the opposite. You used to have to play by putting real effort in pre-february patch. After the february patch? The game became utterly braindead. Just an absolute skillless spam fest where you use everything off cooldown and nothing ever dies anyway. And if you don't care if the game dies because of players leaving, then at best you're selfish.

 

Why do everyone spit out the same broken record without any form of example? Game hasn't changed outside offering more pro-active gameplay. This game really deserves to die for how people could careless about anything but their own whatever mindless used to have stupid builds from before.

 

>Evidently you're not actually seeing what the changes did. You also seem to misunderstand why players are leaving. Hint: the non-existence of skill in the current meta, and the fact that the meta is incredibly imbalanced and noone ever dies are major reasons.

 

Wrong, how does it make any sense that you couldn't spam before when all the cooldowns were shorter and the risk was never to be seen whatsoever. Games far from braindead now when decisions actually matter, it's baffling that you think otherwise. "Nothing" ever dies? Right, where's the proof of that? Are you going to tell me that everyone around me suck then? I've heard it before, irrelevant statement. Dare say that if I tell anything has some challenging tactics to go through? I must be bad. Seriously you have the nerve to call me selfish when none of you ever provide actual evidence to your statement, what have you done to prove anything? I don't see anything anywhere that shows how NOBODY ever dies Zzzzz.

 

I've got all I need and have already posting enough to show the difference in between then and now.

 

>And you will be wrong every single time you say that. As you have been every single time you already have. The playerbase is dying because of both bad balance, and the fact that PvP is now just mindless.

 

The game was never interesting to watch before the patch with all the same thing going around with the same short fights of the same one sided tactics with no space to ever be creative at all unlike now. There's absolutely no reason to think it's dying outside the players just plain being unhappy because the old degeneracy is far gone now.

 

I remember damn well every single meta builds that we've had and I know how most of the people in here that actually played it are also the one complaining, it's no coincidence at all and also doesn't surprise me anymore. People are quitting because they can't accept that they suck at the game and aren't wanting to get good, pulling out whatever desperate excuse they can find now because it DEFINITELY wasn't mindless to play prior to the patch, I've never seen so much denial. Knowing that people also pay for Raids only reinforce my statement that people just don't want to be good.

 

Not only it can be proven with footage, but you look at any archived builds and you can tell how stupidly easy everything was to play unlike now.

 

Again, nothing, there's nothing, absolutely nothing ever brought here that proves that this community is nothing but whiny and never can accept that they're bad period, they're always good without ANYTHING to ever improve on.

 

You can go ahead even uno reverse the purpose of my statement once again since that's all you can really do, but I'll reply in advance. I know what I can and can't do, I'll go far out and wide before thinking the game is actually unfair to me, that's actually a lost art today, not even surprised.

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> @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> Please nerf everything. What do we want? No runes! No stats! No weapons! No skills!

 

I've already mentioned this early last year :

Anet wants to reduce us to unga bungas hitting each other in turn based combat with clubs.

 

Runescape : Evolution of Combat

Gw2 : Devolution of Combat

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> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > Please nerf everything. What do we want? No runes! No stats! No weapons! No skills!

>

> Anet wants to reduce us to unga bungas hitting each other in turn based combat with clubs.

 

anet can have everyone on an ettin tonic when entering the match and all everyone can do is smack with the big club.

 

+ grid based + turn based

 

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> @"Shao.7236" said:

>

> It objectively wasn't.

>

>

 

That's why all the really good PvP players quit ages ago, why the game has lost all entertainment value, why PvP population is seriously in jeopardy compared to how it used to thrive.

 

Oh wait, you are so wrong.

Spvp started to go wild when HoT added elite specs and its been a downhill trend/train since then. Balance will never come again. There are too many factors, and this is why Spvp has lost its population growth and its in a downhill trend.

 

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If we judge the patch on whats in it, not what it's missing, it's actually a pretty awesome one. It only hit things which deserved to be toned down, the only change where I am unsure about this is the fullcounter daze reduction.

Now if only we got these every 4-6 weeks right after the february patch... as we were originally supposed to. The toning down of overperforming leftovers is almost done, we are already seeing sustain nerfs. I expect one more round of nerfs on guardian sustain and some other stuff(trapper rune, pls delete), and after that i hope EoD will be close enough for the pre-patch. If not, god save us all.

 

Anyway, stop crying this patch was good.

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> @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> For me the problems with this build are:

> * unblockable + pulsing + combo field + condi traps:

 

This is definitely something Anet should be concerned with design wise. AoE condi spam has absolutely no business being unblockable. These are generally the easiest to land abilities in the game, and therefore do not need the additional advantage of ignoring defenses.

 

 

 

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