Raknar.4735 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"vicky.9751" said: > > This gives a mastery point for icebrood saga. I have a druid with ascended healing armour and meta build, waited more than 30min in lfg and nobody joined in the end. > > _Something needs to be done about group content in this game._ > > Why do people need to join a discord, put an api key, and then get pinged endlessly for mostly **experiencd** groups or stuff that fills too fast? **this is not** a healthy way to get people to play these raids. I wish gw2 had a matched finder like other games, at least you would GET a party. > The low-effort "open world pve" population in this game actively rebels against any content that has a fail condition. Doesn't even have to be hard. Just needs to have a reasonable chance at failure. People wouldn't touch Octovine if it failed 2 out of 5 times. That's not "rebelling". It's not that deep, they just ignore content that isn't fun to them, simple as that. Waiting to play content is just the opposite of fun. But sure, keep blaming the open world population for instanced content not being more popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 People don't do Whisper of Jormag because it's more trouble than it's worth, ie: it isn't fun and the rewards are meh > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > The low-effort "open world pve" population in this game actively rebels against any content that has a fail condition. And remarks like this one ensure that it's an unpleasant experience to keep trying outside of closed groups, as you can expect this and worse should you pug it up. Now and then you can get lucky with a public group if Whisper is a daily strike and you LFG around reset, but strikes in general aren't what people wanted, and have more or less have become an 'exp only, ping ur role' wasteland. It's especially noticeable with the Whisper of Jormag, but really all strikes are like this. Not a good ramp to raids, and not challenging enough for raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Red Killian.3946 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 One thing that can hurt lfg for a single instance of Whispers of Jormag is that most people like to do groups to run all strikes. You will find some guilds that do this daily or every other day. I recommend to find a good guild. Another way is to wait for the daily Whispers. You should be able to post for groups and get some hits then. Best way is guild cause then they can teach you mechanics too. I know this doesn’t solve the problem overall, but there are some really good guilds out there that truly help players both old and new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > They asked for more raids. > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that. Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true. So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > > They asked for more raids. > > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that. > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true. > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead. Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion. I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion. . The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile Edit: Maybe we should find a way to boycott the new solo-dungeons, they might put resources back into Strike. And then repeat, with the Goal of Raids :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > > > They asked for more raids. > > > > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. > > > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that. > > > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true. > > > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead. > > Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion. > I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion. > . > The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile > > > > Edit: Maybe we should find a way to boycott the new solo-dungeons, they might put resources back into Strike. And then repeat, with the Goal of Raids :P Dubt that since I bet Anet think they are a success if even 25%+ do them daily for the dailies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radda.8920 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Blude.6812" said: > > @"Nephalem.8921" said: > > > @"Tyncale.1629" said: > > > Strikes are a bust, only a few hardcore peeps fell for them, and now they have been elitized, like mini-raids. ( Li-nonsense and exclusion of classes included) > > > > That happens because the majority of the playerbase is incredible bad at creating decent builds. There is a very high chance that someone without kp or li will do 3-4k dps while pretending to be dps. > > no class is excluded but most selfish builds are. those have no value in a grp. > > Not all. Players just don't like raids. Never should have been introduced to game to satisfy a small group of vocal players. So do you think arena should not try to satisfy all types of players in his community? in what honor? They should only do open world content with zerg bus spam 1, right? I've been playing guild wars since day 1 so it's been 16 years. I love the ''hard'' content and specifically the raids. Why shouldn't arena please regular players like me with differents tastes? this level of selfishness ... there were already elite zones on guild wars1, I don't see why there wouldn't be any on gw2 Maybe it's still a minority of players who do raids but in general from my personal experience, they are the most regular players in the game unlike casuals players. Which means that they are also likely to buy a lot of stuff from the cash shop and donate money to arena. They are therefore far from being negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > > > > They asked for more raids. > > > > > > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. > > > > > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that. > > > > > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true. > > > > > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead. > > > > Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion. > > I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion. > > . > > The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile > > > > > > > > Edit: Maybe we should find a way to boycott the new solo-dungeons, they might put resources back into Strike. And then repeat, with the Goal of Raids :P > > Dubt that since I bet Anet think they are a success if even 25%+ do them daily for the dailies. I can just see the meeting: "So you remember those story missions that we were spending the bulk of our resources on but the players only ran once or twice?" "Sure do!" "Well I have good news and bad news. The good news is we repackaged them as repeatable content, used a bunch of assets that were already in the game and used a combination of existing and new rewards to incent players. Now 25% of the player base runs them every day" "That's really impressive... what's the bad news?" "They are only doing it because they are Dailies" "...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > > > They asked for more raids. > > > > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. > > > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that. > > > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true. > > > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead. > > Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion. > I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion. > . > The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile > > > > Edit: Maybe we should find a way to boycott the new solo-dungeons, they might put resources back into Strike. And then repeat, with the Goal of Raids :P I wish it was 9 months with raids or at least a one time thing. Let's check shall we? After the first 3 wings, which released 3-4 months apart: - Wing 3 released June 14, 2016, wing 4 released February 8, 2017 (**8 months**, raids were still fine given an entire set of new raids was to be relsaed) - Wing 4 released February 8, 2017, wing 5 released November 28, 2017 (**9 months**, raids were still but the increase in release schedule has cost players) - Wing 5 released November 28, 2017, wing 6 released September 18, 2018 (**9+months**, wing 6 was highly anticipated, the raid scene had already shrunk significantly) - Wing 6 September 18, 2018, wing 7 released June 11, 2019 (**9 months**, again highly anticipated. By now a lot of veteran raiders have taken breaks or entirely left GW2) Wing 7 released June 11, 2019, that's now **20 months ago**. It's amazing there even is a remaining raid scene at all, and that is mostly thanks to dedicated raiders encouraging, mentoring and actively promoting new blood to start raiding while battling the continued loss of more and more veteran players. Meanwhile Strikes were added where a part of this player-base is not even able to organize or band together to clear "raids light". In a MMORPG which should encourage interaction. While players who enjoy only open world and/or story content get a heart attack because some of the recent episodes were smaller than expected due to the upcoming expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJin.4127 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 WoJ and BS are 2 of the hardest strike missions in the game. They need commanders who know how to put a proper squad together. If I see a listing for WoJ or BS with no squad leader and no description of roles needed, I never join because it means the party leader doesn’t know how to lead for these 2 strikes, which almost always leads to a failed group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > > > > They asked for more raids. > > > > > > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. > > > > > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that. > > > > > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true. > > > > > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead. > > > > Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion. > > I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion. > > . > > The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile > > > > > > > > Edit: Maybe we should find a way to boycott the new solo-dungeons, they might put resources back into Strike. And then repeat, with the Goal of Raids :P > > I wish it was 9 months with raids or at least a one time thing. Let's check shall we? > > After the first 3 wings, which released 3-4 months apart: > - Wing 3 released June 14, 2016, wing 4 released February 8, 2017 (**8 months**, raids were still fine given an entire set of new raids was to be relsaed) > - Wing 4 released February 8, 2017, wing 5 released November 28, 2017 (**9 months**, raids were still but the increase in release schedule has cost players) > - Wing 5 released November 28, 2017, wing 6 released September 18, 2018 (**9+months**, wing 6 was highly anticipated, the raid scene had already shrunk significantly) > - Wing 6 September 18, 2018, wing 7 released June 11, 2019 (**9 months**, again highly anticipated. By now a lot of veteran raiders have taken breaks or entirely left GW2) > > Wing 7 released June 11, 2019, that's now **20 months ago**. It's amazing there even is a remaining raid scene at all, and that is mostly thanks to dedicated raiders encouraging, mentoring and actively promoting new blood to start raiding while battling the continued loss of more and more veteran players. > > Meanwhile Strikes were added where a part of this player-base is not even able to organize or band together to clear "raids light". In a MMORPG which should encourage interaction. While players who enjoy only open world and/or story content get a heart attack because some of the recent episodes were smaller than expected due to the upcoming expansion. And casual didn't have an easy mode since HoT , just a sporadic 1x Boss with every release But yeah they didn't need an easy Mode , but gut good + collect KP+ avoid LFG + create their own Group (dificulty level wouldnt hurt them in that...) :) Can you imagine Fractals , without the 1-3 parts ? Or if we are going to create instances called "Dungeons" , where the majority of the people would do the fastest parts for the gold and if Aether..hardcore..something instance was going to be released (because surely someone will cry about hard>fun>longevity) , where only 1% of the population would do it ...once ? (I really wonder why they drop Dungeons for Fractals) Or what happens if we created Raid encounter to be managed by a few people ...lets say a single Thief , mimicking the Open World Scenarios where few should do the objectives ? Would the community still behave the same and shot themselves in the foot ? The first 3 raids , where side by side . The company had the stats , and saw something "strange" in the participation and removed also the need to do to atleast 1 Raid boss , that was blocking their lvl up track -blocking them from filling the Bar again and again for Spirit Shard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyriin.3291 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > They asked for more raids. > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. Buddy, trust me, the raid comunity didnt ask or need strikes, just more raids, it was alive when raid content was being updated and players were joining regularly. The entry point itself is player motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asum.4960 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > > > They asked for more raids. > > > > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. > > > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that. > > > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true. > > > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead. > > Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion. > I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion. > . > The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile A quick google search tells me that WoW has about 50 Raids, with some single expansions launching with up to 9 Raids. GW2, over it's entire life cycle of 8+ years, added 7 Raids, at a pace of a little bit over one a year, after the initial 3. The Raiding community was hurting since 4 years, not 9 months. Not to any fault of the content or those playing it, but because there simply weren't enough of them to sustain a healthy playerbase. Even as highly repeatable as they are, 30 minutes of content every 9 months just isn't enough, neither for people to stick around, nor for people to see it as a healthy content avenue to get invested in, strive towards and join in alongside others (in turn keeping the community fresh and varied, and with that easier to break into). As for doing other stuff meanwhile? The Shattered Observatory CM released in mid 2017, the next piece of Hardcore content came with the Sunqua Peak CM in late 2020. That's well over 3 years wait for another piece of ~15 minute challenging group content. What else was added over that time to keep these communities of highly proficient players engaged and playing together while waiting for those sporadic Raid releases? Any Dungeons? Tough.. or any new Guild Missions to rally around, anything? In fact, the only thing Anet did over recent times is taking features, such as proper, unlimited, Templates, essentially out of the game, in favour of a monetization scheme. I get confirmation bias and all that, if you never liked or played content such as this, to want to believe it just failed, didn't have interest or simply didn't work. But let's not bend over backwards just to not have to admit that Anet drastically mismanaged resources, siphoning talent and funding away from GW2 since years to their other (since failed) projects, while scaling GW2 down to nothing but the bare minimum, aka LW, to retain some periodic Gemstore engagement to fund their other products. With them now scrambling for an Expansion after revenue plummeted massively over the time they focused on LW and most of their new game projects they intended to transition to falling through. That's what happened to Raids, and just about any other form of content in the game, aside from LW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Asum.4960" said: > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > > > > They asked for more raids. > > > > > > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. > > > > > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that. > > > > > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true. > > > > > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead. > > > > Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion. > > I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion. > > . > > The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile > > > A quick google search tells me that WoW has about 50 Raids, with some single expansions launching with up to 9 Raids. > GW2, over it's entire life cycle of 8+ years, added 7 Raids, at a pace of a little bit over one a year, after the initial 3. > > The Raiding community was hurting since 4 years, not 9 months. Not to any fault of the content or those playing it, but because there simply weren't enough of them to sustain a healthy playerbase. > Even as highly repeatable as they are, 30 minutes of content every 9 months just isn't enough, neither for people to stick around, nor for people to see it as a healthy content avenue to get invested in, strive towards and join in alongside others (in turn keeping the community fresh and varied). > > As for doing other stuff meanwhile? > The Shattered Observatory CM released in mid 2017, the next piece of Hardcore content came with the Sunqua Peak CM in late 2020. That's well over 3 years wait for another piece of ~15 minute challenging group content. > > What else was added over that time to keep these communities of highly proficient players engaged and playing together while waiting for those sporadic Raid releases? > Any Dungeons? Tough.. or any new Guild Missions to rally around, anything? > In fact, the only thing Anet did over recent times is taking features, such as proper, unlimited, Templates, essentially out of the game, in favour of a monetization scheme. > > I get confirmation bias and all that, if you never liked or played content such as this, to want to believe it just failed, didn't have interest or simply didn't work. > But let's not bend over backwards just to not have to admit that Anet drastically mismanaged resources, siphoning talent and funding away from GW2 since years to their other (since failed) projects, while scaling GW2 down to nothing but the bare minimum, aka LW, to retain some periodic Gemstore engagement to fund their other products. > > With them now scrambling for an Expansion after revenue plummeted massively over the time they focused on LW and most of their new game projects they intended to transition to falling through. > > That's what happened to Raids, and just about any other form of content in the game, aside from LW. When casual where coming to the thread to whine , not for the dificulty/nor for the rewards of the Raids , but for the KP + damage meters , it wasnt the company telling them to suck it up , and do it the proper way . And now people are trying to wash their hands from the responsibility "Some" took them casuals as granted , as sheeps :) Try to create a thread in Reddit , so they will Release "Next Expansion - Raid Enchance" By playing 10 more dollars , you get 3+2 Raids in a year (for 1500 Raider ... if morepeople buy it ...you get more Raids) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilkemia.8507 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 It's as if adding raids to Guild Wars 2 was a bad idea from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"Asum.4960" said: > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > > > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > > > > > They asked for more raids. > > > > > > > > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. > > > > > > > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that. > > > > > > > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true. > > > > > > > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead. > > > > > > Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion. > > > I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion. > > > . > > > The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile > > > > > > A quick google search tells me that WoW has about 50 Raids, with some single expansions launching with up to 9 Raids. > > GW2, over it's entire life cycle of 8+ years, added 7 Raids, at a pace of a little bit over one a year, after the initial 3. > > > > The Raiding community was hurting since 4 years, not 9 months. Not to any fault of the content or those playing it, but because there simply weren't enough of them to sustain a healthy playerbase. > > Even as highly repeatable as they are, 30 minutes of content every 9 months just isn't enough, neither for people to stick around, nor for people to see it as a healthy content avenue to get invested in, strive towards and join in alongside others (in turn keeping the community fresh and varied). > > > > As for doing other stuff meanwhile? > > The Shattered Observatory CM released in mid 2017, the next piece of Hardcore content came with the Sunqua Peak CM in late 2020. That's well over 3 years wait for another piece of ~15 minute challenging group content. > > > > What else was added over that time to keep these communities of highly proficient players engaged and playing together while waiting for those sporadic Raid releases? > > Any Dungeons? Tough.. or any new Guild Missions to rally around, anything? > > In fact, the only thing Anet did over recent times is taking features, such as proper, unlimited, Templates, essentially out of the game, in favour of a monetization scheme. > > > > I get confirmation bias and all that, if you never liked or played content such as this, to want to believe it just failed, didn't have interest or simply didn't work. > > But let's not bend over backwards just to not have to admit that Anet drastically mismanaged resources, siphoning talent and funding away from GW2 since years to their other (since failed) projects, while scaling GW2 down to nothing but the bare minimum, aka LW, to retain some periodic Gemstore engagement to fund their other products. > > > > With them now scrambling for an Expansion after revenue plummeted massively over the time they focused on LW and most of their new game projects they intended to transition to falling through. > > > > That's what happened to Raids, and just about any other form of content in the game, aside from LW. > > When casual where coming to the thread to whine , not for the dificulty/nor for the rewards of the Raids , but for the KP + damage meters , it wasnt the company telling them to suck it up , and do it the proper way . > And now people are trying to wash their hands from the responsibility > > "Some" took them casuals as granted , as sheeps :) > > Try to create a thread in Reddit , so they will Release "Next Expansion - Raid Enchance" > By playing 10 more dollars , you get 3+2 Raids in a year (for 1500 Raider ... if morepeople buy it ...you get more Raids) No people told them to join training groups and learn the kp+ damage meters group were never for learning it was for experienced people to clear their weekly content. 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Asum.4960 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > @"Asum.4960" said: > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > > > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect. > > > > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes. > > > > > > They asked for more raids. > > > > > > > > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose. > > > > > > > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that. > > > > > > > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true. > > > > > > > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead. > > > > > > Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion. > > > I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion. > > > . > > > The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile > > > > > > A quick google search tells me that WoW has about 50 Raids, with some single expansions launching with up to 9 Raids. > > GW2, over it's entire life cycle of 8+ years, added 7 Raids, at a pace of a little bit over one a year, after the initial 3. > > > > The Raiding community was hurting since 4 years, not 9 months. Not to any fault of the content or those playing it, but because there simply weren't enough of them to sustain a healthy playerbase. > > Even as highly repeatable as they are, 30 minutes of content every 9 months just isn't enough, neither for people to stick around, nor for people to see it as a healthy content avenue to get invested in, strive towards and join in alongside others (in turn keeping the community fresh and varied). > > > > As for doing other stuff meanwhile? > > The Shattered Observatory CM released in mid 2017, the next piece of Hardcore content came with the Sunqua Peak CM in late 2020. That's well over 3 years wait for another piece of ~15 minute challenging group content. > > > > What else was added over that time to keep these communities of highly proficient players engaged and playing together while waiting for those sporadic Raid releases? > > Any Dungeons? Tough.. or any new Guild Missions to rally around, anything? > > In fact, the only thing Anet did over recent times is taking features, such as proper, unlimited, Templates, essentially out of the game, in favour of a monetization scheme. > > > > I get confirmation bias and all that, if you never liked or played content such as this, to want to believe it just failed, didn't have interest or simply didn't work. > > But let's not bend over backwards just to not have to admit that Anet drastically mismanaged resources, siphoning talent and funding away from GW2 since years to their other (since failed) projects, while scaling GW2 down to nothing but the bare minimum, aka LW, to retain some periodic Gemstore engagement to fund their other products. > > > > With them now scrambling for an Expansion after revenue plummeted massively over the time they focused on LW and most of their new game projects they intended to transition to falling through. > > > > That's what happened to Raids, and just about any other form of content in the game, aside from LW. > > When casual where coming to the thread to whine , not for the dificulty/nor for the rewards of the Raids , but for the KP + damage meters , it wasnt the company telling them to suck it up , and do it the proper way . > And now people are trying to wash their hands from the responsibility If there was a healthy community being fostered, not just for Raids but group content in general (strange concept in an MMO, I know), with people having guilds, groups, networks to play with and feel comfortable tackling more challenging content with, whatever already experienced players/groups are doing on LFG to fill slots wouldn't be of much concern - as that is not the ideal place to first get into the content with anyway, in any case. Although even that would be much better ofc with more content and more frequent waves of new players coming in to take the dive in together. But to blame people who simply want to play with other players of similar mindsets and skill levels to be responsible for the death of a game mode is ludicrous, especially looking at Raids with all it's training communities, benchmarking efforts and build guides to help out less invested/proficient or so inclined players. And let's not forget - everybody can post an LFG. Posting your own with requirements is not excluding anyone, who have that very same ability to do so without requirements if they so wish, from any content. Players are not responsible for teaching the game (and yet many went above and beyond to try), nor for making a largely unsupported game (mode) look attractive, the developer is. It's just that growing GW2, in nearly all of it's aspects, clearly wasn't the priority over the last few years for Anet. 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Ragazm.6018 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Ragazm.6018" said: > > I think best bet is to just ignore that game-mode as whole, also i was very disappointed when ALL my personal story consisted of these "strike missions" . > There are zero story steps that require Strike participation. > At no point did your personal story consist of Strikes. > No one's did. If you look better at text you would see double quotes, which could mean that these are not exactly strike missions, but very similar thing to them. I talk about last chapter (or even two) of Ice Broad Saga, which purely consists of going to strike mission portal and do similar things as strike missions. Which i btw found very similar to each other, only visual models of NPC and environment changes, you really have to do same thing. With all of this, i only want to point out, that there can be some peoples who do not like to do that kind of things at all, especially with some "requirements" from other raid members. Same reasons i personally do not do raids, its too much time investment for casual player like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"Ragazm.6018" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"Ragazm.6018" said: > > > I think best bet is to just ignore that game-mode as whole, also i was very disappointed when ALL my personal story consisted of these "strike missions" . > > There are zero story steps that require Strike participation. > > At no point did your personal story consist of Strikes. > > No one's did. > > If you look better at text you would see double quotes, which could mean that these are not exactly strike missions, but very similar thing to them. > I talk about last chapter (or even two) of Ice Broad Saga, which purely consists of going to strike mission portal and do similar things as strike missions. > Which i btw found very similar to each other, only visual models of NPC and environment changes, you really have to do same thing. > > With all of this, i only want to point out, that there can be some peoples who do not like to do that kind of things at all, especially with some "requirements" from other raid members. > > Same reasons i personally do not do raids, its too much time investment for casual player like me. > > > Then say dragon response missions witch is what anet dubed them. They are 1-5 player content so you can do them yourself, exactly what you wanted right? No well alot of people agree with you they are bad filler content, with even worse rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattDu.7123 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > The low-effort "open world pve" population in this game actively rebels against any content that has a fail condition. > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > Raids needed a bigger player base > @"Asum.4960" said: > But to blame people who simply want to play with other players of similar skill levels So, you need a bigger player base, but not the "open world pve" population and only those that already know how to do raids? Doesn't leave a lot of people to pick from, but sounds like a great plan. > @"Pyriin.3291" said: > The entry point itself is player motivation. What entry point are you talking about > @"aspirine.6852" said: > Why would I join only to get kicked because I never done it before.. > @"vicky.9751" said: > Why do people need to join a discord, put an api key, and then get pinged endlessly for mostly **experiencd** groups or stuff that fills too fast? **this is not** a healthy way to get people to play these raids. I wish gw2 had a matched finder like other games, at least you would GET a party. Tomorrow make a brand new account, quickly get your guy to 80, ascended everything and pop on down to the dome. Lay it on thick that you have never done a raid before but have watched the videos and come on here the following day to tell us how you failed miserably to find a game and it completely put you off the whole experience, or you can lie. My money say you will lie? You could always knee jerk reply straight away and say things like join a training guild(but not your one), try strikes first, or a favourite of mine come back when you've gain experience. I don't want raids or strikes to die, it seems like it could be great end game content but if you don't meet the majority of the population half way, they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > The low-effort "open world pve" population in this game actively rebels against any content that has a fail condition. > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > Raids needed a bigger player base > > @"Asum.4960" said: > > But to blame people who simply want to play with other players of similar skill levels > > So, you need a bigger player base, but not the "open world pve" population and only those that already know how to do raids? Doesn't leave a lot of people to pick from, but sounds like a great plan. > > > @"Pyriin.3291" said: > > The entry point itself is player motivation. > > What entry point are you talking about > > > @"aspirine.6852" said: > > Why would I join only to get kicked because I never done it before.. > > > @"vicky.9751" said: > > Why do people need to join a discord, put an api key, and then get pinged endlessly for mostly **experiencd** groups or stuff that fills too fast? **this is not** a healthy way to get people to play these raids. I wish gw2 had a matched finder like other games, at least you would GET a party. > > > > Tomorrow make a brand new account, quickly get your guy to 80, ascended everything and pop on down to the dome. Lay it on thick that you have never done a raid before but have watched the videos and come on here the following day to tell us how you failed miserably to find a game and it completely put you off the whole experience, or you can lie. > My money say you will lie? > You could always knee jerk reply straight away and say things like join a training guild(but not your one), try strikes first, or a favourite of mine come back when you've gain experience. > > I don't want raids or strikes to die, it seems like it could be great end game content but if you don't meet the majority of the population half way, they will. > > > Everyone dont have a training guild mate join one of the bigger ones here. https://snowcrows.com/raids/training/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blude.6812 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"radda.8920" said: > > @"Blude.6812" said: > > > @"Nephalem.8921" said: > > > > @"Tyncale.1629" said: > > > > Strikes are a bust, only a few hardcore peeps fell for them, and now they have been elitized, like mini-raids. ( Li-nonsense and exclusion of classes included) > > > > > > That happens because the majority of the playerbase is incredible bad at creating decent builds. There is a very high chance that someone without kp or li will do 3-4k dps while pretending to be dps. > > > no class is excluded but most selfish builds are. those have no value in a grp. > > > > Not all. Players just don't like raids. Never should have been introduced to game to satisfy a small group of vocal players. > > So do you think arena should not try to satisfy all types of players in his community? in what honor? > They should only do open world content with zerg bus spam 1, right? > I've been playing guild wars since day 1 so it's been 16 years. I love the ''hard'' content and specifically the raids. Why shouldn't arena please regular players like me with differents tastes? > > this level of selfishness ... > there were already elite zones on guild wars1, I don't see why there wouldn't be any on gw2 > > Maybe it's still a minority of players who do raids but in general from my personal experience, they are the most regular players in the game unlike casuals players. > Which means that they are also likely to buy a lot of stuff from the cash shop and donate money to arena. They are therefore far from being negligible. Can't justify Raids to me in any way. "regular player unlike casuals" what ever that means.??? I play every day so I am casual?? or a regular player and play just about everything but PvP and Raids. AND I buy gems. And donate money?? Didn't know that Anet was a charitable organization and took donations. Learn something new every day. There is no 'Therefore' to your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asum.4960 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > The low-effort "open world pve" population in this game actively rebels against any content that has a fail condition. > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > Raids needed a bigger player base > > @"Asum.4960" said: > > But to blame people who simply want to play with other players of similar skill levels > > So, you need a bigger player base, but not the "open world pve" population and only those that already know how to do raids? Doesn't leave a lot of people to pick from, but sounds like a great plan. > > > @"Pyriin.3291" said: > > The entry point itself is player motivation. > > What entry point are you talking about > > > @"aspirine.6852" said: > > Why would I join only to get kicked because I never done it before.. > > > @"vicky.9751" said: > > Why do people need to join a discord, put an api key, and then get pinged endlessly for mostly **experiencd** groups or stuff that fills too fast? **this is not** a healthy way to get people to play these raids. I wish gw2 had a matched finder like other games, at least you would GET a party. > > > > Tomorrow make a brand new account, quickly get your guy to 80, ascended everything and pop on down to the dome. Lay it on thick that you have never done a raid before but have watched the videos and come on here the following day to tell us how you failed miserably to find a game and it completely put you off the whole experience, or you can lie. > My money say you will lie? > You could always knee jerk reply straight away and say things like join a training guild(but not your one), try strikes first, or a favourite of mine come back when you've gain experience. > > I don't want raids or strikes to die, it seems like it could be great end game content but if you don't meet the majority of the population half way, they will. > > > ..you do realise that every Raider at one point had never done Raids before and then got into that content, right? It sometimes genuinely feels like people are arguing like there are people who were born as Raiders and those that weren't, and then those evil Raiders are keeping everyone else out from becoming one too. People need to have internal motivation to get better, and be willing to group and communicate. The whole emergence of LI/KP and gating in general is due to the countless times every Raider, Fractal or even Strike player experienced of people joining. refusing to communicate their purpose/contribution to the group, providing no perceivable damage, boons or healing, and at worst, then often getting incredibly toxic and combative at even the most gentle prodding about what they are doing or even tips going their way, after repeatedly causing wipes/fails. I don't know why some people think it's just the unconditional responsibility and duty of every existing Raider and such to take these people along and endure any waste of time, lack of fun or even abuse being hurled their way, because apparently everybody is just entitled to being taken along for endgame content without any preparation or common courtesy? Is it really that outlandish or surprising that many, if not most experienced players eventually lost patience and just gated their groups in order to not have to start at 0 again every week, enduring hours of wipes or even abuse, and never getting anything done? When I got into Raids, almost 2 years after their introduction to GW2 (being essentially brainwashed by the community for that time that they were way to hard and the environment way too toxic for me), it's not like I sat in the LFG just watching/joining experienced groups that were looking for like-minded/skilled people with no idea what I was doing and expected them to carry me or complain if they didn't. I crafted/looked up builds, practiced rotations/roles, watched and read guides and then went out to search and find a community that I was comfortable with doing training to do the content together with. That's exactly the kind of player I, and every other person I Raided and talked about this with, would have loved to have join us too. The "telling me how to play is toxicity" 1-5k DPS at max range sitting Longbow Ranger type OW player is never going to get into content like Raids unless they change their mindset though, and you can't blame any Raider for that. So no, getting into Raids and such is not a case of "OW players and beginners not allowed", but "common courtesy and motivation required". (And that is not why Dungeons, Raids, Guild Missions, Strikes, Fractals for the most part, etc. etc. died.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > The low-effort "open world pve" population in this game actively rebels against any content that has a fail condition. > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > Raids needed a bigger player base > > @"Asum.4960" said: > > But to blame people who simply want to play with other players of similar skill levels > > So, you need a bigger player base, but not the "open world pve" population and only those that already know how to do raids? Doesn't leave a lot of people to pick from, but sounds like a great plan. > > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > @"Pyriin.3291" said: > > The entry point itself is player motivation. > > What entry point are you talking about > The same entry point each and every single player who entered raids successfully after the first 2 weeks of HoT: - personal interest - motivation to learn - engagement to enter and succeed at the content. - going to the correct places and meeting the correct people to get into this content Don't pretend as though there is not a constant influx of new raiders, because there is. The main issue this content faces is that the loss of veteran raiders is higher than the new blood flooding in. There is different ways to approach this: - get more new players to raid (which can mean either forcing players into content they are not interested in, or diluting content to a level where it is not reflective of what it was, aka strikes) - produce more content as to keep veteran players interested longer > @"MattDu.7123" said: > > @"aspirine.6852" said: > > Why would I join only to get kicked because I never done it before.. > > > @"vicky.9751" said: > > Why do people need to join a discord, put an api key, and then get pinged endlessly for mostly **experiencd** groups or stuff that fills too fast? **this is not** a healthy way to get people to play these raids. I wish gw2 had a matched finder like other games, at least you would GET a party. > > > > Tomorrow make a brand new account, quickly get your guy to 80, ascended everything and pop on down to the dome. Lay it on thick that you have never done a raid before but have watched the videos and come on here the following day to tell us how you failed miserably to find a game and it completely put you off the whole experience, or you can lie. > My money say you will lie? > You could always knee jerk reply straight away and say things like join a training guild(but not your one), try strikes first, or a favourite of mine come back when you've gain experience. > > I don't want raids or strikes to die, it seems like it could be great end game content but if you don't meet the majority of the population half way, they will. and yet, thousands upon thousands of players manage to get into raids even now. A friend of mine literally made a new raid group 4 weeks ago to get some of his friends into raiding. I have covered 1 shift as commander clearing SH, River and CA. The group is safe on Wings 1-4 in 2h 30 min, then does a 2nd day per week to tackle wings 5-7. Now granted, this group has a 50% veteran player rate who are speeding up the process. Meanwhile other players are getting into raiding via slower means but in the end the same way: - get in touch with experienced players - learn what is expected and how raids work - start practicing both socializing and working as a team as well as class roles There is no entry or mid way entry point needed. Players who are cut out to be raiders WILL find the correct ways to enter this content. There is no need for handholding content. Raids are not that hard to begin with. For all those players which are standing in their own way (unable or unwilling to socialize, improve, commit enough time, etc.) this is not the correct content. > @"Blude.6812" said: > > @"radda.8920" said: > > > @"Blude.6812" said: > > > > @"Nephalem.8921" said: > > > > > @"Tyncale.1629" said: > > > > > Strikes are a bust, only a few hardcore peeps fell for them, and now they have been elitized, like mini-raids. ( Li-nonsense and exclusion of classes included) > > > > > > > > That happens because the majority of the playerbase is incredible bad at creating decent builds. There is a very high chance that someone without kp or li will do 3-4k dps while pretending to be dps. > > > > no class is excluded but most selfish builds are. those have no value in a grp. > > > > > > Not all. Players just don't like raids. Never should have been introduced to game to satisfy a small group of vocal players. > > > > So do you think arena should not try to satisfy all types of players in his community? in what honor? > > They should only do open world content with zerg bus spam 1, right? > > I've been playing guild wars since day 1 so it's been 16 years. I love the ''hard'' content and specifically the raids. Why shouldn't arena please regular players like me with differents tastes? > > > > this level of selfishness ... > > there were already elite zones on guild wars1, I don't see why there wouldn't be any on gw2 > > > > Maybe it's still a minority of players who do raids but in general from my personal experience, they are the most regular players in the game unlike casuals players. > > Which means that they are also likely to buy a lot of stuff from the cash shop and donate money to arena. They are therefore far from being negligible. > > Can't justify Raids to me in any way. "regular player unlike casuals" what ever that means.??? I play every day so I am casual?? or a regular player and play just about everything but PvP and Raids. AND I buy gems. And donate money?? Didn't know that Anet was a charitable organization and took donations. Learn something new every day. There is no 'Therefore' to your logic. The question thus becomes, how lucrative is the niche crowd which is highly engaged with the game versus the vast majority (and we know the vast majority of players does not spend money on the game, or else the revenue would be far higher. A common situation with F2Por B2P games). We can only speculate here, but the quarters past discontinuing raid content as well as no announcement for an expansion where by far the bleakest the company has had. This might have been a coincidence, or it holds true that more engaged players tend to spend more money. If you are as engaged in this game as you claim, you should be in favor of keeping other engaged players as interested as possible (this extends to Spvp and WvW btw, communities which have some of the most dedicated players on the least amount of content provided), even if you personally don't enjoy the content. That is IF the financial well being of this game is more important to you being right on the forums or getting to "shove it to those toxic elitist raiders". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra.4068 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I don’t understand the raiding community at all. They complain they never get new raids. Then they yell at anyone who wants to play raids that they are all too incompetent, lazy, casual, and suck at the game to play with them. So no one plays raids. So ArenaNet doesn’t make anymore raids. So raiders yell at all the people who they wouldn’t let play raids for not playing raids. It just goes around and around in a circle that somehow never seems to be the raiding communities fault. If you want people to play raids, stop insulting people who want to play them and let them play with you. Stop creating artificial barriers to growing the raiding community by placing ridiculous hoops for people to jump through in the way. Want to play raids with us? First, install a third party application, then spend hundreds of hours whacking a training golem until the third party application says your DPS perfectly matched our arbitrarily defined measure of competence. Sure....I’ll get right on that. Then, join a training guild and spend months running training runs once a week until you have obtained our arbitrarily defined measure of KP and LI that indicates you aren’t too noob to live. That doesn’t sound condescending, insulting, rude or overbearing at all. Who wouldn’t want to play with a community of condescending, insulting, rude, overbearing elitists like that? The hoops aren’t really even the problem. The problem is that only assholes want to play with assholes. GW2 apparently doesn’t have enough assholes playing to support the raiding community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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