Anet Intended Scourge to replace Tempest as Core party Sustain in WvW.

[Meetshield.1756]

This post is focused toward Scourge role in WvW

Scourge and even Necro itself is not optimal for PVE / PvP, due to the multi target skills, which are going to be balanced to reach peak DPS on 5 or 10 Targets to keep the other classes happy. So if you want to hash out how you feel about PVE / PVP Scourge / Necro please make a new post and lets keep this discussion focused on Support Scourge in WvW.

 

Some Background of the evolution of Scourge / WvW from my perspective, for those that may not play in a competitive WvW guild.

## Pre-POF WvW Environment.

>! * Core parties were Guard / Guard / Rev / Reaper / Tempest.

>! * Reaper provided boon rip and Condi pressure

>! * Guards were stability and boons. (Chrono sometimes subbed for Guard/Tempest for Boonshare)

>! * Revs mitigated condi pressure and provided Condi or Power dmg based on build.

>! * Tempest cleared conditions and provided both Sustain and Pocket healing.

>! The biggest complaint was "Condi-Cancer", and unreliability of Stability.

 

## Early-POF WvW Environment.

>! * Core parties were Guard / Guard / Scourge / Spellbreaker / (Scourge/Rev/Tempest/Druid/Chrono)

>! * Guards were excited to spam Fire dmg on everyone.

>! * Scourge was beating Rev in DPS, Barrier was ignored as a useless mechanic.

>! * Condi Rev was replaced for Power Rev rather quickly, as it shifted to a Backline / Stay away from Guard / Scourge Meta.

>! * Tempest was still pocket healing, but starting to become redundant due to Guard Healing.

>! * Huge fights in Discord over who's spot is given up for Spellbreaker, as Winds/Bubble was game changing.

 

After the nerf to Scourge, it was tough to justify a spot in comp for DPS. And we have a problem, because we still generally need 2 guards for stability, and that leaves 3 slots, for Boonrip, Sustain, and DPS. If guards pickup the pocket healing role from Tempest, and Spellbreaker is required for Boonrip, you are left with 2 slots for Rev / Weaver / Scourge. Out of those 3, Rev and Weaver out DPS scourge 25-30%.

 

So how do we get Scourge back into Comp?

 

I made a scourge build that has Apoth / Shamans mix and got the healing power to 1600. Added some Healing food, and Sigils, and compared it to Tempest healing. If you ignore the Barrier application which is a Vital Mechanic in itself, just comparing Minstrel Tempest with Apoth Scourge you can see comparable numbers in healing.

 

Scourge with Shaman / Apoth

Garish Pillar 9k / 12 Seconds / 600 AOE

Tempest with Minstrel

Wash Pain away = 6k / 20 sec / 600 Radius

Overload Water = 6k / 17.5 sec / 360 Radius

Geyser = 20k / 20 Sec / 240 Radius (5k Pulses x 4)

18k Healing in 24 seconds from Scourge, vs 17k Healing from Tempest if you only get hit with 1 pulse of Geyser.

Tempest Overload and Wash Pain are Channeled, and can be Interupted. Scourge is Instant and 600 AOE and continues even if he is Downed...

And on the Regeneration side of things... Scourge has regn. for 7 seconds on 5 players using Mark of Blood every 4 seconds (Situational Regen agreed) Also has 10 Second Dodge Regen of 7 Seconds.

Tempest has 13 second Regen on Overload Water 20 Second cooldown, and 3 Regens on Large water 40 Second Cooldown, for 5 Regen applications in 40 seconds.

Scourge applies Regen 14 Times to 5 people in 40 seconds. Tempest applies Regen 5 times to 5 people in 40 seconds.

 

From the DPS meter I can monitor incoming healing, from guards / Ele / necro, and I can tell you without a doubt Scourge out heals Guards and Tempest before you add barrier. If you add barrier its orders of magnitude better. My build has 1600 Healing Power, and 1300 Condition dmg, while Maintaining 2600 Armor and 25k Health.

 

So its a big shift to think of Scourge as a Healer, but if you approach Barrier as your pocket healing, and Transfusion as your sustain healing, while getting occasional help from guards in tight spots, you have the ability to keep the party alive, spam cover conditions, do about 50% of Rev / Weaver dps, and clear a lot of conditions.

 

I believe our balance patch will likely push Scourge even more into a healer role. Even if Sand Savant becomes default, and the GM trait adds a support option in that slot.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

So in short you say that the support that scourge provide is very usefull and competitive in WvW (thing that most players already know) and that anet will most likely balance the scourge in such a way that it consolidate this fact?

 

Well, granted that the necromancer is and have always been good in WvW and that it's support is and have always been good in WvW... I can say that you are probably right in your prediction.

 

NB.: The necromancer is a "condition manager" not a "healer". The scourge is what you get when you push condition management to the max.

 

NB.(2): I don't know how your server play but in mine we often blast water field in order to heal the zerg and ele/tempest is still the best to provide such fields. This is one thing that you can add to the elementalist's heals that the scourge don't have and have no way to contribute for.

[Meetshield.1756]

Guards have water fields, Weavers have water fields, Scourge has Barrier. So you still have water in comp if you want to blast it. I guess blasting it is still a thing? Before HOT I remember screens full of water blasts from Warhorn Warriors running Powerful Synergy. Not exactly still around in NA, Tier 1-4.

 

If you don't think Necro is a healer, you haven't tried a 1600 healing power Scourge running BM Transfusion.

 

Why do you think it costs 3695 LF to do an AOE fear? Because its not a fear its a HEAL.... 600 AOE pulsing heal that continues to work inside a bubble, and even if you are downed.

[Meetshield.1756]

For reference in a 1:30 fight as Scourge Healer, I did 411k Healing. And in comparison I ran Weaver last night on Reset with a Tempest and 2 Guards in my party and received about 18k healing from Guard and 10k Healing from Tempest. So If tempest does 10k X 5 thats 50k in a 1 minute fight? Not saying the tempest was trying to heal, or even good at it. So its hard to compare, but a Healer Scourge can actually do a lot of healing on accident. Or a Lot of DPS on accident. Its definately a good option for newer players IMHO.

[Egorum.9506]

Looking at it in comparison to trailblazer scourge, transfusion with a frenzy sigil is stupid good sustain and team support. No one should ever go down without being pulled back on tag and ressed. And since condies don't last long in wvw anyway, you aren't losing much damage. You lose the boon corrupt on f2, but that's about it.

 

Going to look into this tomorrow, thank you!

[Nighteyess.2149]

What server do you play on?