jcbroe.4329 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 > @Kerivek.5740 said: > I would agree if the "unfounded expectations" was in reference to the content being delivered...but as I understand it they were just talking about the release date. I don't see that being as big an issue as people are making it out to be. They aren't telling you that you can't expect them to deliver content they are saying don't expect it to be out this week. > > Whether or not they will deliver a decent quality balance patch is of course questionable but not relevant to the point here. "There seems to be some incorrect information and/or unfounded expectations surrounding the next balance update" It's open ended. They stated it separately from the part of the message about the planned delivery date of the patch so that they could attempt to use it as a catch-all CYA PR tactic. Even in a specific context, it's still bad PR and terrible phrasing, and heads should still be rolling. They shouldn't be presuming to know any of their customers expectations and then subsequently dismissing them, ever, period. Even in the lightest of circumstances where somebody meant to say "misconceptions" and/or "miscommunications" instead of the wording they chose, it's still a mistake that gives them a patronizing tone and heads should still be rolling because you don't patronize your customers. It doesn't matter in what way we all as individuals react to it; it's inexcusable and falls below an acceptable business standard of communication with a customer base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackanstein.2503 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 > @Spartyr.6795 said: > I think they are going to fix the full pet revive on merge. SHHH! Don't tell them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerivek.5740 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > @Kerivek.5740 said: > > I would agree if the "unfounded expectations" was in reference to the content being delivered...but as I understand it they were just talking about the release date. I don't see that being as big an issue as people are making it out to be. They aren't telling you that you can't expect them to deliver content they are saying don't expect it to be out this week. > > > > Whether or not they will deliver a decent quality balance patch is of course questionable but not relevant to the point here. > > "There seems to be some incorrect information and/or unfounded expectations surrounding the next balance update" > > It's open ended. They stated it separately from the part of the message about the planned delivery date of the patch so that they could attempt to use it as a catch-all CYA PR tactic. > > Even in a specific context, it's still bad PR and terrible phrasing, and heads should still be rolling. They shouldn't be presuming to know any of their customers expectations and then subsequently dismissing them, ever, period. > > Even in the lightest of circumstances where somebody meant to say "misconceptions" and/or "miscommunications" instead of the wording they chose, it's still a mistake that gives them a patronizing tone and heads should still be rolling because you don't patronize your customers. > > It doesn't matter in what way we all as individuals react to it; it's inexcusable and falls below an acceptable business standard of communication with a customer base. It is open ended but I just viewed the entire post to be related to the release date of the patch, without any reference to included content. Either way I agree it is bad phrasing...I just think that people are being overly critical of it I guess. They don't exactly have a large team from my understanding so I assume they don't pass everything through PR to make sure their community interactions can't be misinterpreted. Hopefully they are more careful with their choice of words going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGDeadHead.8326 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 > @Spartyr.6795 said: > I think they are going to fix the full pet revive on merge. Imo that goes with the elite spec and is an important part of it, in other words - there's nothing to "fix". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemesiS.6749 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I have not been able to play since sept 18 due to Hurricane Maria, no electricity for a month and internet arrived just today. Good thing is if they nerf something i wont miss it because i havent even try soulbeast much lol. Will log in soon to try soulbeast and all the new things, hope is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbroe.4329 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Kerivek.5740 said: > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > @Kerivek.5740 said: > > > I would agree if the "unfounded expectations" was in reference to the content being delivered...but as I understand it they were just talking about the release date. I don't see that being as big an issue as people are making it out to be. They aren't telling you that you can't expect them to deliver content they are saying don't expect it to be out this week. > > > > > > Whether or not they will deliver a decent quality balance patch is of course questionable but not relevant to the point here. > > > > "There seems to be some incorrect information and/or unfounded expectations surrounding the next balance update" > > > > It's open ended. They stated it separately from the part of the message about the planned delivery date of the patch so that they could attempt to use it as a catch-all CYA PR tactic. > > > > Even in a specific context, it's still bad PR and terrible phrasing, and heads should still be rolling. They shouldn't be presuming to know any of their customers expectations and then subsequently dismissing them, ever, period. > > > > Even in the lightest of circumstances where somebody meant to say "misconceptions" and/or "miscommunications" instead of the wording they chose, it's still a mistake that gives them a patronizing tone and heads should still be rolling because you don't patronize your customers. > > > > It doesn't matter in what way we all as individuals react to it; it's inexcusable and falls below an acceptable business standard of communication with a customer base. > > It is open ended but I just viewed the entire post to be related to the release date of the patch, without any reference to included content. Either way I agree it is bad phrasing...I just think that people are being overly critical of it I guess. They don't exactly have a large team from my understanding so I assume they don't pass everything through PR to make sure their community interactions can't be misinterpreted. Hopefully they are more careful with their choice of words going forward. Yeah, I do dislike that even though I feel as though I am expressing this concise and logically, it does read as full of rage and anger over it. If anything I'm just disappointed that I don't have patch notes yet and that ANet didn't handle it by just simply telling us "this is when to expect the patch" without any of the fluff. Just like when they'd say things like "purity of purpose" and etc, the additional "trying to be clever" is always a double edged sword. Just tell us x is happening because of y or on y date. It doesn't have to be this complicated lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol.4310 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 They, don't have to tell us anything and reason they don't say anything is so they have safeguards in place incase they don't meet what they said. Honestly fact you guys just went on RANT about business, I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbroe.4329 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Sol.4310 said: > They, don't have to tell us anything and reason they don't say anything is so they have safeguards in place incase they don't meet what they said. Honestly fact you guys just went on RANT about business, I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... I'm a services programmer. I deal directly with customers on a day to day basis, and then build or fix whatever they want or whatever they are having problems with. I'm **not allowed** to tell you we can't do something, or to say "you have unfounded expectations." Even if it's not possible. "You're right, that is a good idea to enhance our product. We'll add it to our project list for further releases. Thank you for your suggestion in helping us improve our product." You're right though, they don't HAVE to tell us anything. Which is why they should be that much more careful when they do. And if you don't criticize somebody when they do a bad job, how will they know they it was a bad job and that they need to do better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbroe.4329 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Aceofsppades.6873 said: > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > > @AshinDreidon.3861 said: > > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > > > > > > Also if I ever told the customers I program for that they had unfounded expectations I'd be promptly fired for losing our company business. > > > > > > > > This, so much. I honestly don't understand how this is a thing that they can pull. > > > > > > I really don't see how their statement is rude in any way... They're just saying that many people were assuming things that weren't true, and setting the record straight. > > > > > > Anyway, as far as the patch notes go... There's two things that I'm worried I'll see. > > > 1: Sic 'Em damage bonus reduced in Beastmode. > > > 2: Longbow range reduced to truly be 1500, because some Deadeyes are upset that they aren't the best snipers. > > > > > > There's a great many things I'd LIKE to see, but sadly, my expectations are low. > > > > It has nothing to do with rudeness. > > > > Calling a customers expectations "unfounded" is a direct contradiction of the "customer is always right principle." > > > > They're flat out saying that they can't do what we, as paying customers, expect them to be able to do, which is a huge "no no;" to create that sort of dissonance between the business and the customer base. > > > > They're old way of expressing concepts as being on a table is the better and more customer friendly way to do things. They acknowledge that they've heard us, there is an implied documentation of the feedback, and there is an understanding that they will be addressed at some point when they are able to be addressed. > > > > Flat out saying to us that they are incapable of meeting our expectations, and more over, to dismiss those expectations as unfounded? Heads should actually be rolling right now. > > yeah yours for your entitled attitude. "they hurt my feelings someone should be fired" I paid for a product, I am entitled to appropriate customer service. Thank you for recognizing that they were rude and that I am deserving of respect as a customer :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psizone.8437 Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Sol.4310 said: >I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... Don't start a junk measuring competition on the internet dude. I'm the president of Mars and I own half of McDonalds. (/s, just in case it wasn't obvious) Those kinds of comments are silly and don't have a place here. You don't need to own a business to argue about how businesses should work. I don't think anyone should be fired, but it really could have been worded better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 either way, paraphrasing i don't think is the problem here but how Anet has been treating their costumers for years now. That wording could have work if the devs\pr would had been sharing the advances and changes to the game so we as costumers are kept informed about the changes they are making to the service. That is not the case here, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolbox.9375 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > @Sol.4310 said: > > They, don't have to tell us anything and reason they don't say anything is so they have safeguards in place incase they don't meet what they said. Honestly fact you guys just went on RANT about business, I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... > > I'm a services programmer. I deal directly with customers on a day to day basis, and then build or fix whatever they want or whatever they are having problems with. > > I'm **not allowed** to tell you we can't do something, or to say "you have unfounded expectations." Even if it's not possible. > > "You're right, that is a good idea to enhance our product. We'll add it to our project list for further releases. Thank you for your suggestion in helping us improve our product." > > You're right though, they don't HAVE to tell us anything. Which is why they should be that much more careful when they do. > > And if you don't criticize somebody when they do a bad job, how will they know they it was a bad job and that they need to do better? I'm sorry your customers are children. But present company excluded, we here on the forums are mature enough to handle being told when our assumptions are incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbroe.4329 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > @Sol.4310 said: > > > They, don't have to tell us anything and reason they don't say anything is so they have safeguards in place incase they don't meet what they said. Honestly fact you guys just went on RANT about business, I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... > > > > I'm a services programmer. I deal directly with customers on a day to day basis, and then build or fix whatever they want or whatever they are having problems with. > > > > I'm **not allowed** to tell you we can't do something, or to say "you have unfounded expectations." Even if it's not possible. > > > > "You're right, that is a good idea to enhance our product. We'll add it to our project list for further releases. Thank you for your suggestion in helping us improve our product." > > > > You're right though, they don't HAVE to tell us anything. Which is why they should be that much more careful when they do. > > > > And if you don't criticize somebody when they do a bad job, how will they know they it was a bad job and that they need to do better? > > I'm sorry your customers are children. But present company excluded, we here on the forums are mature enough to handle being told when our assumptions are incorrect. Being told you're incorrect is fine, is a factually true and informing statement. Being told your expectations are unfounded is a patronizing, dismissive statement that is meant to illustrate you as incapable of putting together enough information to be able to express something that's reasonable to expect. One is a fact. One in an insult. Is it an insult worth getting up in arms about as a community? No. But as paying customers it isn't a way in which we she be communicated with either. Also it has nothing to do with protecting the egos or sensibilities of the customer. If we tell customers we can't meet their expectations, and that their expectations are unreasonable, they will go to our competitors who will meet (aka listen to without insulting them) their expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolbox.9375 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > @Sol.4310 said: > > > > They, don't have to tell us anything and reason they don't say anything is so they have safeguards in place incase they don't meet what they said. Honestly fact you guys just went on RANT about business, I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... > > > > > > I'm a services programmer. I deal directly with customers on a day to day basis, and then build or fix whatever they want or whatever they are having problems with. > > > > > > I'm **not allowed** to tell you we can't do something, or to say "you have unfounded expectations." Even if it's not possible. > > > > > > "You're right, that is a good idea to enhance our product. We'll add it to our project list for further releases. Thank you for your suggestion in helping us improve our product." > > > > > > You're right though, they don't HAVE to tell us anything. Which is why they should be that much more careful when they do. > > > > > > And if you don't criticize somebody when they do a bad job, how will they know they it was a bad job and that they need to do better? > > > > I'm sorry your customers are children. But present company excluded, we here on the forums are mature enough to handle being told when our assumptions are incorrect. > > Being told you're incorrect is fine, is a factually true and informing statement. > > Being told your expectations are unfounded is a patronizing, dismissive statement that is meant to illustrate you as incapable of putting together enough information to be able to express something that's reasonable to expect. > > One is a fact. One in an insult. Is it an insult worth getting up in arms about as a community? No. But as paying customers it isn't a way in which we she be communicated with either. > > Also it has nothing to do with protecting the egos or sensibilities of the customer. If we tell customers we can't meet their expectations, and that their expectations are unreasonable, they will go to our competitors who will meet (aka listen to without insulting them) their expectations. WILL those competitors meet their expectations? If so, then that's justified. But you were saying that you don't tell the customer that their expectations are unreasonable even if they are indeed unreasonable and unattainable. So in this case, they go to the competitor, who promises they'll deliver what's expected, and then end up delivering something that isn't up to their expectations because the competitor wasn't honest enough to tell them that their expectations were unreasonable. I'll take the honest business, thank you very much. Take those empty promises elsewhere, I want no part in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbroe.4329 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > > @Sol.4310 said: > > > > > They, don't have to tell us anything and reason they don't say anything is so they have safeguards in place incase they don't meet what they said. Honestly fact you guys just went on RANT about business, I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... > > > > > > > > I'm a services programmer. I deal directly with customers on a day to day basis, and then build or fix whatever they want or whatever they are having problems with. > > > > > > > > I'm **not allowed** to tell you we can't do something, or to say "you have unfounded expectations." Even if it's not possible. > > > > > > > > "You're right, that is a good idea to enhance our product. We'll add it to our project list for further releases. Thank you for your suggestion in helping us improve our product." > > > > > > > > You're right though, they don't HAVE to tell us anything. Which is why they should be that much more careful when they do. > > > > > > > > And if you don't criticize somebody when they do a bad job, how will they know they it was a bad job and that they need to do better? > > > > > > I'm sorry your customers are children. But present company excluded, we here on the forums are mature enough to handle being told when our assumptions are incorrect. > > > > Being told you're incorrect is fine, is a factually true and informing statement. > > > > Being told your expectations are unfounded is a patronizing, dismissive statement that is meant to illustrate you as incapable of putting together enough information to be able to express something that's reasonable to expect. > > > > One is a fact. One in an insult. Is it an insult worth getting up in arms about as a community? No. But as paying customers it isn't a way in which we she be communicated with either. > > > > Also it has nothing to do with protecting the egos or sensibilities of the customer. If we tell customers we can't meet their expectations, and that their expectations are unreasonable, they will go to our competitors who will meet (aka listen to without insulting them) their expectations. > > WILL those competitors meet their expectations? If so, then that's justified. But you were saying that you don't tell the customer that their expectations are unreasonable even if they are indeed unreasonable and unattainable. So in this case, they go to the competitor, who promises they'll deliver what's expected, and then end up delivering something that isn't up to their expectations because the competitor wasn't honest enough to tell them that their expectations were unreasonable. I'll take the honest business, thank you very much. Take those empty promises elsewhere, I want no part in it. In a zero-gain situation, the customer will likely go with the business that listens to them and treats them respectfully, not the one that insults them. Insults shouldn't be confused with honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbroe.4329 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Edit: duplicate and new forums don't let you delete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolbox.9375 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > > > @Sol.4310 said: > > > > > > They, don't have to tell us anything and reason they don't say anything is so they have safeguards in place incase they don't meet what they said. Honestly fact you guys just went on RANT about business, I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... > > > > > > > > > > I'm a services programmer. I deal directly with customers on a day to day basis, and then build or fix whatever they want or whatever they are having problems with. > > > > > > > > > > I'm **not allowed** to tell you we can't do something, or to say "you have unfounded expectations." Even if it's not possible. > > > > > > > > > > "You're right, that is a good idea to enhance our product. We'll add it to our project list for further releases. Thank you for your suggestion in helping us improve our product." > > > > > > > > > > You're right though, they don't HAVE to tell us anything. Which is why they should be that much more careful when they do. > > > > > > > > > > And if you don't criticize somebody when they do a bad job, how will they know they it was a bad job and that they need to do better? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry your customers are children. But present company excluded, we here on the forums are mature enough to handle being told when our assumptions are incorrect. > > > > > > Being told you're incorrect is fine, is a factually true and informing statement. > > > > > > Being told your expectations are unfounded is a patronizing, dismissive statement that is meant to illustrate you as incapable of putting together enough information to be able to express something that's reasonable to expect. > > > > > > One is a fact. One in an insult. Is it an insult worth getting up in arms about as a community? No. But as paying customers it isn't a way in which we she be communicated with either. > > > > > > Also it has nothing to do with protecting the egos or sensibilities of the customer. If we tell customers we can't meet their expectations, and that their expectations are unreasonable, they will go to our competitors who will meet (aka listen to without insulting them) their expectations. > > > > WILL those competitors meet their expectations? If so, then that's justified. But you were saying that you don't tell the customer that their expectations are unreasonable even if they are indeed unreasonable and unattainable. So in this case, they go to the competitor, who promises they'll deliver what's expected, and then end up delivering something that isn't up to their expectations because the competitor wasn't honest enough to tell them that their expectations were unreasonable. I'll take the honest business, thank you very much. Take those empty promises elsewhere, I want no part in it. > > In a zero-gain situation, the customer will likely go with the business that listens to them and treats them respectfully, not the one that insults them. Insults shouldn't be confused with honesty. But it wasn't an insult. It was a statement of fact. Oversensitivity to critique doesn't turn truth into malevolence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbroe.4329 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > > > > @Sol.4310 said: > > > > > > > They, don't have to tell us anything and reason they don't say anything is so they have safeguards in place incase they don't meet what they said. Honestly fact you guys just went on RANT about business, I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm a services programmer. I deal directly with customers on a day to day basis, and then build or fix whatever they want or whatever they are having problems with. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm **not allowed** to tell you we can't do something, or to say "you have unfounded expectations." Even if it's not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > "You're right, that is a good idea to enhance our product. We'll add it to our project list for further releases. Thank you for your suggestion in helping us improve our product." > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right though, they don't HAVE to tell us anything. Which is why they should be that much more careful when they do. > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you don't criticize somebody when they do a bad job, how will they know they it was a bad job and that they need to do better? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry your customers are children. But present company excluded, we here on the forums are mature enough to handle being told when our assumptions are incorrect. > > > > > > > > Being told you're incorrect is fine, is a factually true and informing statement. > > > > > > > > Being told your expectations are unfounded is a patronizing, dismissive statement that is meant to illustrate you as incapable of putting together enough information to be able to express something that's reasonable to expect. > > > > > > > > One is a fact. One in an insult. Is it an insult worth getting up in arms about as a community? No. But as paying customers it isn't a way in which we she be communicated with either. > > > > > > > > Also it has nothing to do with protecting the egos or sensibilities of the customer. If we tell customers we can't meet their expectations, and that their expectations are unreasonable, they will go to our competitors who will meet (aka listen to without insulting them) their expectations. > > > > > > WILL those competitors meet their expectations? If so, then that's justified. But you were saying that you don't tell the customer that their expectations are unreasonable even if they are indeed unreasonable and unattainable. So in this case, they go to the competitor, who promises they'll deliver what's expected, and then end up delivering something that isn't up to their expectations because the competitor wasn't honest enough to tell them that their expectations were unreasonable. I'll take the honest business, thank you very much. Take those empty promises elsewhere, I want no part in it. > > > > In a zero-gain situation, the customer will likely go with the business that listens to them and treats them respectfully, not the one that insults them. Insults shouldn't be confused with honesty. > > But it wasn't an insult. It was a statement of fact. Oversensitivity to critique doesn't turn truth into malevolence. Let's break it down then. Expectations: strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future. Unfounded: having no foundation in basis or fact. Because expectations differ by individual and are backed by belief, you cannot presume to know or understand those expectations, at least not in their full extent. Because you cannot presume these expectations, you cannot label expectations as unfounded, since you can't discern whether they are stemming from a factual background or are supported by any sort of basis, and you can't tell somebody what they do and don't know. So by making these presumptions, my main accusation is that the statement was patronizing and that they are dismissing the community with their language (which would be redundant to redefine). Patronizing: treat with an apparent kindness that betrays a feeling of superiority. From there, it is up to the individual to determine whether or not being patronizing is insulting. Personally, I think it is. Not to mention the people who were projecting when the balance patch would occur had used the previous patching cycles as an example to predict the patch day; hardly an unfounded prediction/expectation seeing as how it has a basis. And if ANet had just announced a patch date, this conversation wouldn't be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol.4310 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 I don't know why you guys seem to think world works perfectly> @jcbroe.4329 said: > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > > > > > @Sol.4310 said: > > > > > > > > They, don't have to tell us anything and reason they don't say anything is so they have safeguards in place incase they don't meet what they said. Honestly fact you guys just went on RANT about business, I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm a services programmer. I deal directly with customers on a day to day basis, and then build or fix whatever they want or whatever they are having problems with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm **not allowed** to tell you we can't do something, or to say "you have unfounded expectations." Even if it's not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "You're right, that is a good idea to enhance our product. We'll add it to our project list for further releases. Thank you for your suggestion in helping us improve our product." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right though, they don't HAVE to tell us anything. Which is why they should be that much more careful when they do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you don't criticize somebody when they do a bad job, how will they know they it was a bad job and that they need to do better? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry your customers are children. But present company excluded, we here on the forums are mature enough to handle being told when our assumptions are incorrect. > > > > > > > > > > Being told you're incorrect is fine, is a factually true and informing statement. > > > > > > > > > > Being told your expectations are unfounded is a patronizing, dismissive statement that is meant to illustrate you as incapable of putting together enough information to be able to express something that's reasonable to expect. > > > > > > > > > > One is a fact. One in an insult. Is it an insult worth getting up in arms about as a community? No. But as paying customers it isn't a way in which we she be communicated with either. > > > > > > > > > > Also it has nothing to do with protecting the egos or sensibilities of the customer. If we tell customers we can't meet their expectations, and that their expectations are unreasonable, they will go to our competitors who will meet (aka listen to without insulting them) their expectations. > > > > > > > > WILL those competitors meet their expectations? If so, then that's justified. But you were saying that you don't tell the customer that their expectations are unreasonable even if they are indeed unreasonable and unattainable. So in this case, they go to the competitor, who promises they'll deliver what's expected, and then end up delivering something that isn't up to their expectations because the competitor wasn't honest enough to tell them that their expectations were unreasonable. I'll take the honest business, thank you very much. Take those empty promises elsewhere, I want no part in it. > > > > > > In a zero-gain situation, the customer will likely go with the business that listens to them and treats them respectfully, not the one that insults them. Insults shouldn't be confused with honesty. > > > > But it wasn't an insult. It was a statement of fact. Oversensitivity to critique doesn't turn truth into malevolence. > > Let's break it down then. > > Expectations: strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future. > > Unfounded: having no foundation in basis or fact. > > Because expectations differ by individual and are backed by belief, you cannot presume to know or understand those expectations, at least not in their full extent. > > Because you cannot presume these expectations, you cannot label expectations as unfounded, since you can't discern whether they are stemming from a factual background or are supported by any sort of basis, and you can't tell somebody what they do and don't know. > > So by making these presumptions, my main accusation is that the statement was patronizing and that they are dismissing the community with their language (which would be redundant to redefine). > > Patronizing: treat with an apparent kindness that betrays a feeling of superiority. > > From there, it is up to the individual to determine whether or not being patronizing is insulting. Personally, I think it is. > > Not to mention the people who were projecting when the balance patch would occur had used the previous patching cycles as an example to predict the patch day; hardly an unfounded prediction/expectation seeing as how it has a basis. > > And if ANet had just announced a patch date, this conversation wouldn't be happening. > Sounds like you should go try different game. If Anet isn't meeting your expectations no one is forcing you to stick around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Sol.4310 said: > I don't know why you guys seem to think world works perfectly> @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > > > > @Toolbox.9375 said: > > > > > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said: > > > > > > > > > @Sol.4310 said: > > > > > > > > > They, don't have to tell us anything and reason they don't say anything is so they have safeguards in place incase they don't meet what they said. Honestly fact you guys just went on RANT about business, I have question for you how many of you are business owners? I am..... are you... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm a services programmer. I deal directly with customers on a day to day basis, and then build or fix whatever they want or whatever they are having problems with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm **not allowed** to tell you we can't do something, or to say "you have unfounded expectations." Even if it's not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "You're right, that is a good idea to enhance our product. We'll add it to our project list for further releases. Thank you for your suggestion in helping us improve our product." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right though, they don't HAVE to tell us anything. Which is why they should be that much more careful when they do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you don't criticize somebody when they do a bad job, how will they know they it was a bad job and that they need to do better? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry your customers are children. But present company excluded, we here on the forums are mature enough to handle being told when our assumptions are incorrect. > > > > > > > > > > > > Being told you're incorrect is fine, is a factually true and informing statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > Being told your expectations are unfounded is a patronizing, dismissive statement that is meant to illustrate you as incapable of putting together enough information to be able to express something that's reasonable to expect. > > > > > > > > > > > > One is a fact. One in an insult. Is it an insult worth getting up in arms about as a community? No. But as paying customers it isn't a way in which we she be communicated with either. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also it has nothing to do with protecting the egos or sensibilities of the customer. If we tell customers we can't meet their expectations, and that their expectations are unreasonable, they will go to our competitors who will meet (aka listen to without insulting them) their expectations. > > > > > > > > > > WILL those competitors meet their expectations? If so, then that's justified. But you were saying that you don't tell the customer that their expectations are unreasonable even if they are indeed unreasonable and unattainable. So in this case, they go to the competitor, who promises they'll deliver what's expected, and then end up delivering something that isn't up to their expectations because the competitor wasn't honest enough to tell them that their expectations were unreasonable. I'll take the honest business, thank you very much. Take those empty promises elsewhere, I want no part in it. > > > > > > > > In a zero-gain situation, the customer will likely go with the business that listens to them and treats them respectfully, not the one that insults them. Insults shouldn't be confused with honesty. > > > > > > But it wasn't an insult. It was a statement of fact. Oversensitivity to critique doesn't turn truth into malevolence. > > > > Let's break it down then. > > > > Expectations: strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future. > > > > Unfounded: having no foundation in basis or fact. > > > > Because expectations differ by individual and are backed by belief, you cannot presume to know or understand those expectations, at least not in their full extent. > > > > Because you cannot presume these expectations, you cannot label expectations as unfounded, since you can't discern whether they are stemming from a factual background or are supported by any sort of basis, and you can't tell somebody what they do and don't know. > > > > So by making these presumptions, my main accusation is that the statement was patronizing and that they are dismissing the community with their language (which would be redundant to redefine). > > > > Patronizing: treat with an apparent kindness that betrays a feeling of superiority. > > > > From there, it is up to the individual to determine whether or not being patronizing is insulting. Personally, I think it is. > > > > Not to mention the people who were projecting when the balance patch would occur had used the previous patching cycles as an example to predict the patch day; hardly an unfounded prediction/expectation seeing as how it has a basis. > > > > And if ANet had just announced a patch date, this conversation wouldn't be happening. > > > > Sounds like you should go try different game. If Anet isn't meeting your expectations no one is forcing you to stick around. I could offer the same suggestion to you in this thread. If it bothers you so much to read criticism that you need to tell people to go away, maybe you ought to get out of forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol.4310 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 deleted... I'm done... Complain as much as you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksander Suburb.4287 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 I would jump to another game as soon as there is a game like gw1 in medieval/fantasy setting. But there is not such a game -.- I play gw since beta 2004 and i like the setting and gameplay. Many of my guild walked away to other games at gw2 release, but they're not happay with other mmorpg either. It is sad, that the differences between gw1 and 2 increase with every big gameplay update. And balancing becomes worser with each unfinished new gameplay option. In addition often you need the newest add on to play in competive modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonzhunter.8506 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Spartyr.6795 said: > I think they are going to fix the full pet revive on merge. First of all I'll talk here only from WvW Roaming POV, because usual here the game has problem regarding profession balance. Well, I don't have any problem with that (because now is a litlle broken this thing) but if they fix it , then they should reduce CD till you can use again that pet from 1 min! (like it is now) to 10 or maximum 15 sec. It's stupid now that 1min CD till your pet ressurect if you don't go and out from Beastmode. Basically a fight takes like 30sec-2 min between 2 players, so it's stupid to take almost half of damage to a profession for 1 min! Nor any class has this dissability to stay 1 min without half (or almost half) of his damage/offensive or deffensive skills. In another train of thoughts, I don't think Soulbeast should get buffs, at least not power build. Only condi build should be buffed and ofc the main dagger which is one of the useless weapon in WvW atm. For balance the game atm I think they should nerf some professions like Spellbreaker, Firebrand and condi Mirrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGDeadHead.8326 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Looking into the future: "In order to make Soulbeast more attractive, we've decided to tone down Druid abilities across the board" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt Frosty.6973 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @NemesiS.6749 said: > I have not been able to play since sept 18 due to Hurricane Maria, no electricity for a month and internet arrived just today. Good thing is if they nerf something i wont miss it because i havent even try soulbeast much lol. Will log in soon to try soulbeast and all the new things, hope is good. Good thing is Soulbeast can't really get any worse than it is right now (pls no anet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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