Undo Scrapper Nerfs

[Razor.9872]

I agree. In my opinion, Scrapper should be on roughly the same level as Spellbreaker when it comes to PvP specialty & strength. It could use some good love to get it up to par with everything else.

[Aetatis.5418]

i feel like either nerf holo (most (! not all either !) PoF specs tbh - not just holo) or get a slight boost on (most HoT specs) Scrapper. i dont care which way... i just want more equal-ish elite specializations.

dunno... e.g. heal gyro option with condi-cleanse?. some more hammer love (faster hammer 3? ... 5% more dmg?). not much really.

 

since i doubt that any nerfs will be "rolled back" i am hinting on different approaches?

 

[Haseno.6417]

The question is. What should Scrapper counter?

[coglin.1496]

> @Haseno.6417 said:

> The question is. What should Scrapper counter?

 

No it isn't. There is no reason to design build options of a profession around the notion of specifically countering another professions build.

 

Not to mention the flaw in any thought process about countering a profession. You could term builds, not professions.

[Haseno.6417]

> @"coglin.1496" said:

> > @Haseno.6417 said:

> > The question is. What should Scrapper counter?

>

> No it isn't. There is no reason to design build options of a profession around the notion of specifically countering another professions build.

>

> Not to mention the flaw in any thought process about countering a profession. You could term builds, not professions.

 

I didnt suggest Scrapper should counter another profession entirely.

 

Each profession excels in areas which allows it to act at minimum, as a soft counter, to certain abilities of others.

 

Spellbreaker Bubble counters an entire core gameplay mechanic.

 

Scourge counters an enemy teams entire positioning.

 

What areas should Scrapper excel in?

[Haseno.6417]

Suggestions:

 

- The Final Hit of Hammer Skill #3 grants resistance for 3 seconds on yourself and up to 5 nearby allies. If you miss it doesnt grant the boon.

 

- Shock Shield Damage Increased by 20%. Originally nerfed by 50%

 

- Purging Gyro now removes 3 conditions, and breaks stun

 

- Lightning Field radius increased to 300 and applies Weakness (8s)

 

- Expert Examination now applies Vulnerability when you stun or daze and converts 2 conditions into 2 random boons. Originally applied Vulnerability and Weakness

 

- Medic Gyro cast time reduced to .20(s) down from .50(s). Radius increased to 400.

 

- Shredder Gyro Radius increased to 240 up from 180.

 

- Chemical Field now also applies Cripple(4s).

 

- Recovery Matrix grants Protection and Regeneration after using a heal skill

 

- Reconstruction Field now applies both Protection and Vigor (1s) per pulse.

 

Function Gyro needs a complete rework. It's a rather lackluster Unique Mechanic for our profession when compared to that of other Elite Specializations. I propose the following:

 

-Battery Pack: Energizes and overcharges all equipped Gyros, Gadgets, Kits, or Turrets increasing their effectiveness for 10 seconds. Battery recharges passively 10% every 6 seconds. Cannot be used again until fully charged.

 

 

[coglin.1496]

I disagree with your first example here Haseno. The reason is that I despise the notion of a good counter such as resistance on unrelated skills. Especially long and mobile skills. This restricts almost all of it's value. I much prefer such beneficial boons to be usable for reactive game play.

[Haseno.6417]

> @"coglin.1496" said:

> I disagree with your first example here Haseno. The reason is that I despise the notion of a good counter such as resistance on unrelated skills. Especially long and mobile skills. This restricts almost all of it's value. I much prefer such beneficial boons to be usable for reactive game play.

 

I know what you mean. But i was trying to keep that high risk vs. High reward theme going.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Daze on gyro detonation plz.

[Haseno.6417]

> @"coglin.1496" said:

> I disagree with your first example here Haseno. The reason is that I despise the notion of a good counter such as resistance on unrelated skills. Especially long and mobile skills. This restricts almost all of it's value. I much prefer such beneficial boons to be usable for reactive game play.

 

The lack of resistance on engis is a big deal. I believe some kind of access to it is necessary. However, what about the other suggestions?

[Dadnir.5038]

Just change:

_Expert examination_: your lightning fields apply weakness and vulnerability with each pulse.

_Impact savant_: rename and change effect to "when you gain superspeed lose a condition".

[Bossun.2046]

Does Avatar amulet work well with scrapper?

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Bossun.2046" said:

> Does Avatar amulet work well with scrapper?

 

It would, yeah. I'm kind of interested to test Scrapper in pure side node role vs. Mirage, Spellbreaker, Druid, and Holo. Staying away from Scourges basically.

[Etaoin.4362]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

 

> I'm kind of interested to test Scrapper in pure side node role vs. Mirage, Spellbreaker, Druid, and Holo. Staying away from Scourges basically.

 

In my *limited* experience, scrapper can do very well in that role with those match-ups, either stalemating or outright winning the fight. It mostly just depends on you (as the scrapper) being able to gauge the burst and defend yourself accordingly. After that, you can pretty much set the pace of the confrontation until their burst is up again, then just repeat as necessary. It's not the most interesting style, but it is fairly reliable.

[Chaith.8256]

To elaborate more on Scrapper as a pure side node monkey there are some problems.

- Scrapper always derived value from being able to teamfight well if required.

- Scrapper on side node gets no value from class mechanic.

- Scrapper at disadvantage in preventing decaps without mobility like Mirage portal, Spellbreaker Greatsword, or Druid staff.

 

This is before we take into account how it does in matchups.. Which I doubt it's any better than mediocre in that category too.

 

Needs testing by me but initial outlook not good, Holo offers the chance to possibly win side node fights.

 

I suggested a lot of changes to Scrapper but the ones that would help when you're a side monkey:

 

Function Gyro: In addition to its previous effects, when the function Gyro is off cooldown and hovering around the Scrapper, enhance the Scrapper with +120 Power and +120 Precision. Added tendrils of electricity leaping between the Scrapper & Function Gyro when in combat

 

Decisive Renown - This skill only grants superspeed and no longer applies might to allies. Instead of might, all abilities that apply Superspeed to multiple targets have their target limit increased (10). This skill now has two internal CDs, one from reviving/stomping as is currently, but now one internal CD that activates this trait from using a healing skill, ICD increased to 15s.

 

Final Salvo: Currently: Spawn a lightning field when a gyro is destroyed, granting Superspeed.

New: Lightning field now mobile and centered around the Scrapper's position rather than where the Gyro dies.

 

Basically, able to blow a heal and gyro to super speed rotate to a side node. 120 power and precision when you're getting no value from function gyro.

[miriforst.1290]

I mostly wvw as a scrapper (i still much prefer it to holosmith there). But the mechanic and gyros promotes a supportive play style while the traits do not (outside of super speed share which isn't even necessarily that good or even special nowadays). And speaking of which, if we were to join a squad we will have to fight over taking yet another guardian (vanilla, DH OR firebrand) , rev or warrior. But when it comes to our support they do not scale.

 

 

-Damage scales mostly up to 5 targets hit

 

-Most support of for example a guardian scales up to 5 targets

 

-Scrapper gyros like bulwark divide their total support over the players, meaning they don't scale (and purgy has to cleanse one at a time). Its support which effectiveness does not increase with the numbers of potential targets! Sneak gyro has 5 targets but instead competes against veil which has no target limit (im absolutely not promoting the idea of infinite targets sneak gyro here). As an added bonus they are also destructible meaning they scale inversely to the number of enemies unlike normal support which is unaffected until facing spell breakers/scourge (hence the rivers of tears from firebrand regarding the golden globe). In short its a case of 6 zenyatas vs 6 lucios.

 

-Vanilla engineer support like medkit does not scale well either.

 

-Vanilla engineer support like tossed elixirs have a smaller aoe, weaker effects than their guardian counterpart (looking at b) and can be blocked/reflected, has a cast time etc.

 

-The scrapper primary mechanic does not scale with the number of allies/enemies and instead scales inversely with the number of enemies (honestly these days a single crit with a sigil proc blows it into oblivion, not to mention corrupts negating the grandmaster required to make it work at all. So it requires fights that are not 1v1, but not too big enough to be negated instantly. Also more and more classes are getting alternatives for rezzing through traits (often vanilla, sometimes aoe). You are much more likely to be teleported and revived by a necro than you are to be revived by a scrapper in wvw. And i don't need to mention the revive power of guardianballs.

 

-Even stuff like water fields can now be handled by firebrands. Actually CC (including both soft and hard + lines), stability, protection, reviving, cleansing, waters, blasts, might stacking, healing, resistance, projectile reflects, aoe stunbreaks, quickness and surprising pressure from burn (when covered by scourges providing corrupts and barriers to the team) can be provided by firebrands. They still have to rely on mesmers for stealth though i expect the next spec might do something about that.

 

 

 

 

My suggestion would be to have medic and purgy pulse their effect in an area similar to sneak gyro whithout the need to stop to cast and that bulwark now properly reduces the damage (as the tooltip states) instead of transferring the damage. That would be a start atleast. Of course you also need to balance the numbers of conditions removed after this etc.

 

Speaking of scaling this is exactly why the scrapper hammer is such a strong defensive mechanism while stuff like barriers and shroud are not considered strong.

 

Scaling is also why a scrapper should in theory be strongest at conquest where the fights involve fever people (and also takes place on points where people remain in smashing distance).

 

EDIT: It should be noted that i will not comment on how the balance should be in regards to the almighty support overlords. I'm just saying why we do not fill those slots as well.

 

Actually drawing parallels to overwatch i think we are zaryas. Regenerating hp, a single target save ally from doom button with limited hp, long cooldown CC (though no graviton...) with personal shields to punish people who burst us at bad moments (like into a rocket charge or shock shield), ways to prevent CC and with low mobility. We even counter genji- i mean thieves pretty well. Would explain why shes my favorite character to play there... Still scrapper is nowhere as powerful as a good zarya.