Mirage and Holosmith damage is over the top.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > The current state of Mesmer really disappoints me. In GW1 you could run Mes as lockdown or debuffer which was a unique role. These days, all you see are burst builds that require very little cleverness from a class supposedly dedicated to it. You do the same thing as everyone else in a slightly different way. Interrupts are way less impressive in a game with so much spam. Even power Mes has been dumbed down to an insane degree. The Confusion build is way worse than the Holo one imo because most of the damage comes in one instant whereas Holo damage is more spurred out with very obvious animations.

> >

> > I'm sure Mes is like it is because of open world PvE, the lack of damage you have caused problems.

>

> *I'd like to play an interrupt build. The high level of stability, block and resistance ( much of it passive ) makes such a build impractical at best.* Moa is largely useless for similar reasons. Boon Share Mesmer is sometimes seen in WvW with a voice coordinated group. There's also Alacrity support Chrono used in raids and sometimes in dungeons.

>

> Realistically burst, ( either condi or power,) is the only generally good choice.

 

Interrupt isn't really a viable option for anyone in GW2 the way it was in GW1. It's like saying that you want to play a prot monk; it just doesn't exist in this game. Also, moa is fine on condi chrono (which isn't a burst build, by the way, but is still viable).

 

As for holosmith being overpowered, it really isn't. The way they've changed the game (i.e. the way elite specializations work) means that core builds will almost never be useful compared to elite specs, but also that elite specs can be relatively well balanced compared to each other.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > > The current state of Mesmer really disappoints me. In GW1 you could run Mes as lockdown or debuffer which was a unique role. These days, all you see are burst builds that require very little cleverness from a class supposedly dedicated to it. You do the same thing as everyone else in a slightly different way. Interrupts are way less impressive in a game with so much spam. Even power Mes has been dumbed down to an insane degree. The Confusion build is way worse than the Holo one imo because most of the damage comes in one instant whereas Holo damage is more spurred out with very obvious animations.

> > >

> > > I'm sure Mes is like it is because of open world PvE, the lack of damage you have caused problems.

> >

> > *I'd like to play an interrupt build. The high level of stability, block and resistance ( much of it passive ) makes such a build impractical at best.* Moa is largely useless for similar reasons. Boon Share Mesmer is sometimes seen in WvW with a voice coordinated group. There's also Alacrity support Chrono used in raids and sometimes in dungeons.

> >

> > Realistically burst, ( either condi or power,) is the only generally good choice.

>

> Interrupt isn't really a viable option for anyone in GW2 the way it was in GW1. It's like saying that you want to play a prot monk; it just doesn't exist in this game. Also, moa is fine on condi chrono (which isn't a burst build, by the way, but is still viable).

>

> As for holosmith being overpowered, it really isn't. The way they've changed the game (i.e. the way elite specializations work) means that core builds will almost never be useful compared to elite specs, but also that elite specs can be relatively well balanced compared to each other.

 

For the record, I do currently play a prot Monk. That or UA or sometimes Mo/A running my Discord team. I also run a domination Mesmer and flirt with Rit.

 

*If core builds are not and will not be competitive, then the game is pay-to-win..* precisely the opposite of competitive.

 

Philosophy aside, Holosmith does too much damage with too little risk. Heat doesn't appear to be a significant limiting factor. A Holosmith is pretty much invulnerable to me long enough to easily kill me and that's not right.

 

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > > > The current state of Mesmer really disappoints me. In GW1 you could run Mes as lockdown or debuffer which was a unique role. These days, all you see are burst builds that require very little cleverness from a class supposedly dedicated to it. You do the same thing as everyone else in a slightly different way. Interrupts are way less impressive in a game with so much spam. Even power Mes has been dumbed down to an insane degree. The Confusion build is way worse than the Holo one imo because most of the damage comes in one instant whereas Holo damage is more spurred out with very obvious animations.

> > > >

> > > > I'm sure Mes is like it is because of open world PvE, the lack of damage you have caused problems.

> > >

> > > *I'd like to play an interrupt build. The high level of stability, block and resistance ( much of it passive ) makes such a build impractical at best.* Moa is largely useless for similar reasons. Boon Share Mesmer is sometimes seen in WvW with a voice coordinated group. There's also Alacrity support Chrono used in raids and sometimes in dungeons.

> > >

> > > Realistically burst, ( either condi or power,) is the only generally good choice.

> >

> > Interrupt isn't really a viable option for anyone in GW2 the way it was in GW1. It's like saying that you want to play a prot monk; it just doesn't exist in this game. Also, moa is fine on condi chrono (which isn't a burst build, by the way, but is still viable).

> >

> > As for holosmith being overpowered, it really isn't. The way they've changed the game (i.e. the way elite specializations work) means that core builds will almost never be useful compared to elite specs, but also that elite specs can be relatively well balanced compared to each other.

>

> For the record, I do currently play a prot Monk. That or UA or sometimes Mo/A running my Discord team. I also run a domination Mesmer and flirt with Rit.

 

I said "does not exist **in Guild Wars _2_**." So either your reading comprehension is terrible, or you're deliberately being obstinate and misrepresenting what I said.

 

>

> *If core builds are not and will not be competitive, then the game is pay-to-win..* precisely the opposite of competitive.

 

Oh, please. Half the skills you needed in GW1 came from various expansions. In fact, the FotM e-denial mes that I saw everyone and their mother running back in the day required Prophecies, Nightfall, and Eye of the North for all of the skills it used.

 

>

> Philosophy aside, Holosmith does too much damage with too little risk. Heat doesn't appear to be a significant limiting factor. A Holosmith is pretty much invulnerable to me long enough to easily kill me and that's not right.

>

 

Then you need to learn to fight them, because it's obviously an operator error problem. Unlike mesmers, holosmiths are completely incapable of dealing damage while invulnerable. Hell, they still take condition damage while 'invulnerable', and have very little cleanse. Why don't you try playing one for a while, and see how that goes?

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > > > > The current state of Mesmer really disappoints me. In GW1 you could run Mes as lockdown or debuffer which was a unique role. These days, all you see are burst builds that require very little cleverness from a class supposedly dedicated to it. You do the same thing as everyone else in a slightly different way. Interrupts are way less impressive in a game with so much spam. Even power Mes has been dumbed down to an insane degree. The Confusion build is way worse than the Holo one imo because most of the damage comes in one instant whereas Holo damage is more spurred out with very obvious animations.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm sure Mes is like it is because of open world PvE, the lack of damage you have caused problems.

> > > >

> > > > *I'd like to play an interrupt build. The high level of stability, block and resistance ( much of it passive ) makes such a build impractical at best.* Moa is largely useless for similar reasons. Boon Share Mesmer is sometimes seen in WvW with a voice coordinated group. There's also Alacrity support Chrono used in raids and sometimes in dungeons.

> > > >

> > > > Realistically burst, ( either condi or power,) is the only generally good choice.

> > >

> > > Interrupt isn't really a viable option for anyone in GW2 the way it was in GW1. It's like saying that you want to play a prot monk; it just doesn't exist in this game. Also, moa is fine on condi chrono (which isn't a burst build, by the way, but is still viable).

> > >

> > > As for holosmith being overpowered, it really isn't. The way they've changed the game (i.e. the way elite specializations work) means that core builds will almost never be useful compared to elite specs, but also that elite specs can be relatively well balanced compared to each other.

> >

> > For the record, I do currently play a prot Monk. That or UA or sometimes Mo/A running my Discord team. I also run a domination Mesmer and flirt with Rit.

>

> I said "does not exist **in Guild Wars _2_**." So either your reading comprehension is terrible, or you're deliberately being obstinate and misrepresenting what I said.

>

> >

> > *If core builds are not and will not be competitive, then the game is pay-to-win..* precisely the opposite of competitive.

>

> Oh, please. Half the skills you needed in GW1 came from various expansions. In fact, the FotM e-denial mes that I saw everyone and their mother running back in the day required Prophecies, Nightfall, and Eye of the North for all of the skills it used.

>

> >

> > Philosophy aside, Holosmith does too much damage with too little risk. Heat doesn't appear to be a significant limiting factor. A Holosmith is pretty much invulnerable to me long enough to easily kill me and that's not right.

> >

>

> Then you need to learn to fight them, because it's obviously an operator error problem. Unlike mesmers, holosmiths are completely incapable of dealing damage while invulnerable. Hell, they still take condition damage while 'invulnerable', and have very little cleanse. Why don't you try playing one for a while, and see how that goes?

 

You made a comment about GW1 and I replied in kind. Sorry if you took that amiss.

 

As you just took care to point out, we're discussing GW2. Yes some builds required the expansions in GW1.. though there were a lot more viable builds. You could make a usable build with only Prophecies.

 

In Holo mode, I can shatter all I like and I will die before I even dent the engi's health. In addition they have heavy cc and a one-shot elite. Literally the only way I can beat a holosmith is to somehow survive until they exit holo mode and try to pressure them before they can re-enter it.

 

Two problems there: First, they own the point for that entire time and second.. the margin of time is so short before they are back in holo mode that I simply cannot damage them enough to seriously threaten them. **In effect, they are invulnerable to me.**

 

The spec is obviously OP.

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > > > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > > > > > The current state of Mesmer really disappoints me. In GW1 you could run Mes as lockdown or debuffer which was a unique role. These days, all you see are burst builds that require very little cleverness from a class supposedly dedicated to it. You do the same thing as everyone else in a slightly different way. Interrupts are way less impressive in a game with so much spam. Even power Mes has been dumbed down to an insane degree. The Confusion build is way worse than the Holo one imo because most of the damage comes in one instant whereas Holo damage is more spurred out with very obvious animations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm sure Mes is like it is because of open world PvE, the lack of damage you have caused problems.

> > > > >

> > > > > *I'd like to play an interrupt build. The high level of stability, block and resistance ( much of it passive ) makes such a build impractical at best.* Moa is largely useless for similar reasons. Boon Share Mesmer is sometimes seen in WvW with a voice coordinated group. There's also Alacrity support Chrono used in raids and sometimes in dungeons.

> > > > >

> > > > > Realistically burst, ( either condi or power,) is the only generally good choice.

> > > >

> > > > Interrupt isn't really a viable option for anyone in GW2 the way it was in GW1. It's like saying that you want to play a prot monk; it just doesn't exist in this game. Also, moa is fine on condi chrono (which isn't a burst build, by the way, but is still viable).

> > > >

> > > > As for holosmith being overpowered, it really isn't. The way they've changed the game (i.e. the way elite specializations work) means that core builds will almost never be useful compared to elite specs, but also that elite specs can be relatively well balanced compared to each other.

> > >

> > > For the record, I do currently play a prot Monk. That or UA or sometimes Mo/A running my Discord team. I also run a domination Mesmer and flirt with Rit.

> >

> > I said "does not exist **in Guild Wars _2_**." So either your reading comprehension is terrible, or you're deliberately being obstinate and misrepresenting what I said.

> >

> > >

> > > *If core builds are not and will not be competitive, then the game is pay-to-win..* precisely the opposite of competitive.

> >

> > Oh, please. Half the skills you needed in GW1 came from various expansions. In fact, the FotM e-denial mes that I saw everyone and their mother running back in the day required Prophecies, Nightfall, and Eye of the North for all of the skills it used.

> >

> > >

> > > Philosophy aside, Holosmith does too much damage with too little risk. Heat doesn't appear to be a significant limiting factor. A Holosmith is pretty much invulnerable to me long enough to easily kill me and that's not right.

> > >

> >

> > Then you need to learn to fight them, because it's obviously an operator error problem. Unlike mesmers, holosmiths are completely incapable of dealing damage while invulnerable. Hell, they still take condition damage while 'invulnerable', and have very little cleanse. Why don't you try playing one for a while, and see how that goes?

>

> In Holo mode, I can shatter all I like and I will die before I even dent the engi's health. In addition they have heavy cc and a one-shot elite. Literally the only way I can beat a holosmith is to somehow survive until they exit holo mode and try to pressure them before they can re-enter it.

>

> Two problems there: First, they own the point for that entire time and second.. the margin of time is so short before they are back in holo mode that I simply cannot damage them enough to seriously threaten them. **In effect, they are invulnerable to me.**

>

> The spec is obviously OP.

 

You have got to be trolling. Play a holosmith and go do what you described.

 

Because I'm pretty sure this is just user error.

[zoopop.5630]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > > > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > > > > > The current state of Mesmer really disappoints me. In GW1 you could run Mes as lockdown or debuffer which was a unique role. These days, all you see are burst builds that require very little cleverness from a class supposedly dedicated to it. You do the same thing as everyone else in a slightly different way. Interrupts are way less impressive in a game with so much spam. Even power Mes has been dumbed down to an insane degree. The Confusion build is way worse than the Holo one imo because most of the damage comes in one instant whereas Holo damage is more spurred out with very obvious animations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm sure Mes is like it is because of open world PvE, the lack of damage you have caused problems.

> > > > >

> > > > > *I'd like to play an interrupt build. The high level of stability, block and resistance ( much of it passive ) makes such a build impractical at best.* Moa is largely useless for similar reasons. Boon Share Mesmer is sometimes seen in WvW with a voice coordinated group. There's also Alacrity support Chrono used in raids and sometimes in dungeons.

> > > > >

> > > > > Realistically burst, ( either condi or power,) is the only generally good choice.

> > > >

> > > > Interrupt isn't really a viable option for anyone in GW2 the way it was in GW1. It's like saying that you want to play a prot monk; it just doesn't exist in this game. Also, moa is fine on condi chrono (which isn't a burst build, by the way, but is still viable).

> > > >

> > > > As for holosmith being overpowered, it really isn't. The way they've changed the game (i.e. the way elite specializations work) means that core builds will almost never be useful compared to elite specs, but also that elite specs can be relatively well balanced compared to each other.

> > >

> > > For the record, I do currently play a prot Monk. That or UA or sometimes Mo/A running my Discord team. I also run a domination Mesmer and flirt with Rit.

> >

> > I said "does not exist **in Guild Wars _2_**." So either your reading comprehension is terrible, or you're deliberately being obstinate and misrepresenting what I said.

> >

> > >

> > > *If core builds are not and will not be competitive, then the game is pay-to-win..* precisely the opposite of competitive.

> >

> > Oh, please. Half the skills you needed in GW1 came from various expansions. In fact, the FotM e-denial mes that I saw everyone and their mother running back in the day required Prophecies, Nightfall, and Eye of the North for all of the skills it used.

> >

> > >

> > > Philosophy aside, Holosmith does too much damage with too little risk. Heat doesn't appear to be a significant limiting factor. A Holosmith is pretty much invulnerable to me long enough to easily kill me and that's not right.

> > >

> >

> > Then you need to learn to fight them, because it's obviously an operator error problem. Unlike mesmers, holosmiths are completely incapable of dealing damage while invulnerable. Hell, they still take condition damage while 'invulnerable', and have very little cleanse. Why don't you try playing one for a while, and see how that goes?

>

> You made a comment about GW1 and I replied in kind. Sorry if you took that amiss.

>

> As you just took care to point out, we're discussing GW2. Yes some builds required the expansions in GW1.. though there were a lot more viable builds. You could make a usable build with only Prophecies.

>

> In Holo mode, I can shatter all I like and I will die before I even dent the engi's health. In addition they have heavy cc and a one-shot elite. Literally the only way I can beat a holosmith is to somehow survive until they exit holo mode and try to pressure them before they can re-enter it.

>

> Two problems there: First, they own the point for that entire time and second.. the margin of time is so short before they are back in holo mode that I simply cannot damage them enough to seriously threaten them. **In effect, they are invulnerable to me.**

>

> The spec is obviously OP.

>

 

At this point it's a Learn To Play Against Holo, They are NOT OP and by far the EASIEST class to read skill abilities coming at you.

 

In Holo, Their 5 ability has a delay/easy to avoid so you aren't knock back, the number 3 Ability is a Spin that can EASILY be dodged as well/avoided by a mesmer. The only thing that might be hard to avoid is there Auto Attacks.... which even then on a mesmer i DONT see how you can't stop this with your F4 ability/Blink/Moe/ Or your ability to dodge basic moves.

 

I highly suggestion you go to arena and find a holo to 1vs1 to learn how they are play against them.

[BurrTheKing.8571]

From what I've been seeing in Plat almost everyone knows how to deal with Holo now. You can't take most 1v1s because even if you hit hard you lack the sustain to trade blows with Spellbreakers, Mirage, and even core Radient Guard.

 

Sure, you land that full combo on most builds and they're dead, but most aren't going to let that happen unless you play like a thief and go for picks.

 

A Mirage being unable to kill a Holo 1v1 means the Mirage is doing something very wrong.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> From what I've been seeing in Plat almost everyone knows how to deal with Holo now. You can't take most 1v1s because even if you hit hard you lack the sustain to trade blows with Spellbreakers, Mirage, and even core Radient Guard.

>

> Sure, you land that full combo on most builds and they're dead, but most aren't going to let that happen unless you play like a thief and go for picks.

>

> A Mirage being unable to kill a Holo 1v1 means the Mirage is doing something very wrong.

 

I'm playing a core Mesmer. The holo auto attack alone will melt me very quickly. That would be one thing if I could reply in kind, but I can't.

[Bish.8627]

Honestly holosmith is fine, dodge the burst and you are good to go!

 

I can't comment on mirage too much as I can cleave their clones and it seems to always worry their owner. I do think the instant downs out of stealth are silly. And if you want to see a different between both classes in risk vs reward, go to the engineer forum and look at the thread about rocket boots and ranged. Warping half the map instantly is a bit much for a class that can decoy and stealth also.

 

That being said, I wouldn't want major nerfs, I find the balance quite ok at the moment.

[Bish.8627]

Oops. double post, my bad

[Vagrant.7206]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > From what I've been seeing in Plat almost everyone knows how to deal with Holo now. You can't take most 1v1s because even if you hit hard you lack the sustain to trade blows with Spellbreakers, Mirage, and even core Radient Guard.

> >

> > Sure, you land that full combo on most builds and they're dead, but most aren't going to let that happen unless you play like a thief and go for picks.

> >

> > A Mirage being unable to kill a Holo 1v1 means the Mirage is doing something very wrong.

>

> I'm playing a core Mesmer. The holo auto attack alone will melt me very quickly. That would be one thing if I could reply in kind, but I can't.

 

So wait...

 

You admit you're playing a build that's considered subpar by the community at large? No wonder the holosmith seems powerful...

[kappa.2036]

I just want to point out that i have no problems beating holosmiths or mirages. I'm complaining about the damage. They are unhealthy for the game in their current state, alongside with Scourge.

[Kadj.6725]

As a mirage, I doooo feel like the damage is a bit high considering the stealths and potential invuln time, _specifically coming from the meta build_.

I think target dropping is a gimmick mechanic that will basically never see the competitive play the developers intend because the damage per second in pvp is way too high. Mis-targetting a clone is irrelevant in a meta where people can spam 1 and cleave all your illusions down.

I think Elusive Mind is a literal non-issue. It does give us extra stunbreaks, but stun-oriented builds *need* that sort of counter. FURTHERMORE, burning our dodges is already a major part of the setup, so it's not an issue of "always has two extra stunbreaks", but instead "regenerates an extra stunbreak every couple seconds."

 

Before anet goes too heavy with the nerf bat in a few months, I hope they instead first consider the number of confusion stacks we can dish out; second to that, burn ticks on the torch and torch trait, specifically. I don't think they should be lowered too drastically, but I think dropping 1 stack from Jaunt and Ineptitude will go a long way towards evening us out. I would also hate to see an ICD on Ineptitude, but maybe it needs a small cooldown just so chain blinds don't stack so much in a short time. (I hate trait ICDs in general. It's lazy balance, to me. Any trait that has a long cooldown due to sheer power shouldn't be a trait.)

[ZhouX.8742]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > >

> > > > > I spoke of Thieves' Guild to make the point that even Phantasms are not truly unique to Mesmer. I could have mentioned others.

> > > > >

> > > > > When Chronomancer was introduced, one of the specialization perks was resistance if memory serves. *Yes, I do think that each profession ought to have something unique. In the case of Mesmer, My class brings nothing to the table that another class cannot replicate to some extent.* Resistance was shared out and severely nerfed on Mesmer because it was allegedly OP. Then Warrior got resistance in spades.

> > > >

> > > > Confusion, A.I, (Phantasms), resistance, Mesmer did not do these before other professions.. They're more of a game wide mechanic. You're digging a 2km deep hole searching for reasons why the entire Mesmer profession is obsolete but if you just resurfaced once and a while you'd see it's been in a must have spot since 2015.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Perhaps that is so from an ESL/Pro league POV. For the vast majority of players it is not.

> >

> > I had no problems doing well with chronomancer until PoF dropped. Again, the problem is you and your stubborn refusal to use effective builds. You have no grounds to complain about balance when you intentionally use inferior builds.

>

> ***One of my points is that I should not need to be locked into the latest metabattle bandwagon.*** Balance is poor if only one or two of the possible builds are useful. I protested when ANET simplified the trait system.

>

> They seem to be wanting to move toward a video game style setup with one build per class. I think that would be a major error in judgement.**In a balanced game, most possible builds would be useful and roughly equivalent. GW2 has, in my opinion, never really approached that.** The Guild Wars Franchise trades on it's diversity and richness. To destroy that would be to destroy the game.

>

 

Then I would quit playing PvP in mmos, mobas or anything that utilizes builds and team organization in a PvP environment because in any game this is going to occur. Meta builds exist because they are optimal, and are the best.

 

There isn't an mmo where you can freely play what you'd like and be effective vs the meta comps especially in higher level tiers.

 

You're wanting something that has and never will exist in mmo PvP even without a trinity.

[mysticsicness.7598]

Holosmith dmg is high, but they can't take a lot of damage either. Mirage is a silly concept, because their damage is extremely high, and they have insane amounts of iframes, invulns, and escapes. If you manage to survive long enough against mirage (big IF), for them to run out of cooldowns, then they can always portal.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Duelled somebody running holosmith and paladin amulet. It hit me for 9k lol

[Twigifire.8379]

> @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:

> Duelled somebody running holosmith and paladin amulet. It hit me for 9k lol

 

With grenade barrage at 25 might? Yes, holo damage is high and does need some nerfs to either baseline damage or might stacking ability but people need to be realistic about what classes are capable of because then it just causes confusion. There's been some horrendous claims about holomancer in general but really it's an easy to use seal-clubber spec that excels at ground-pounding people that don't know how to dodge and has mostly unfavourable matchups otherwise.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

> @Twigifire.8379 said:

> > @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:

> > Duelled somebody running holosmith and paladin amulet. It hit me for 9k lol

>

> With grenade barrage at 25 might? Yes, holo damage is high and does need some nerfs to either baseline damage or might stacking ability but people need to be realistic about what classes are capable of because then it just causes confusion. There's been some horrendous claims about holomancer in general but really it's an easy to use seal-clubber spec that excels at ground-pounding people that don't know how to dodge and has mostly unfavourable matchups otherwise.

 

I wish I could hit for so much with deathstrike on my revenant. I rarely hit for 8k while running zerk amulet at 25 stacks of might.

[Druh.1092]

i dont give a fuck what people say holosmith is op when they know how to play they can chain cc you to the point of even using a stunbreak doesnt help and the dmg they put out will kill you in one second

[BurrTheKing.8571]

> @Druh.1092 said:

> i dont give a kitten what people say holosmith is op when they know how to play they can chain cc you to the point of even using a stunbreak doesnt help and the dmg they put out will kill you in one second

 

Holosmith has large tells, melts when caught, and is weak to Condi burst. Mirage can do their damage while invulnerable, has just add good if not better mobility than holo, and is Condi so t has synergy with scourge. They can melt when caught but if that happens they made a mistake.

 

Damage in general is to high but at least holo has reliable counterplay. With mirage you have to wait for them to use all their CDs and dodges since CCing them is useless when dodging is a stun break.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @Druh.1092 said:

> i dont give a kitten what people say holosmith is op when they know how to play they can chain cc you to the point of even using a stunbreak doesnt help and the dmg they put out will kill you in one second

 

They have exactly 3 hard cc skills, including their elite. Also, I really doubt they killed you in one second. What I find really funny is that core mesmer can do a comparable amount of burst damage in an even shorter time frame, from stealth, with less telegraphed skill animations...yet nobody complains about that. Holosmith is new, and you just obviously don't know how to play against it yet. Try one out yourself, that should allow you to get used to its strengths and weaknesses.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @Druh.1092 said:

> i dont give a kitten what people say holosmith is op **when they know how to play** they can chain cc you to the point of even using a stunbreak doesnt help and the dmg they put out will kill you in one second

 

I highlighted the relevant section for you. Because if you don't know how to play, you will always lose to a holosmith who knows how to play.

[Druh.1092]

i made one so i can learn thier skills to counter them and i am just like blowing people up its kind of fun honestly

[Vagrant.7206]

> @Druh.1092 said:

> i made one so i can learn thier skills to counter them and i am just like blowing people up its kind of fun honestly

 

You'll quickly learn their weaknesses too! When you play the class, you get a handle on what makes it strong, and where it falls flat.

[choovanski.5462]

holo is simple, it doesn't have a ton of evades or stunbreaks so I can land headbutt. if I can land headbutt I can win that 1v1, because after that headbutt comes arcing slice and a barrage of gunflames.

 

mirage tho... what a nightmare dude. love all the evade spam and attacks w no telegraphs. after the nerfs to adrenaline and zerker stance Berserker just doesn't have the condi clear to face a good mesmer. it's either you catch them in your wombo (unlikely because stunbreak on dodge actually FML) or you have to try and rotate (not much point because they can chase you down w sword ambush. but sometimes they waste all their endurance on movement so you get a chance to headbutt into wombo).

 

one one level I get @"Ithilwen.1529" , because I'm playing a weak spec- Berserker too. but the thing is, I don't cry about everything being OP. sure I'll complain about headbutt from time to time, but I know full well I'm gimping myself. so any frustrations I have from playing a gimped build is straight up on me. it was my choice to be 'weak for fun', so I have no grounds to 'QQ OP'.

like, don't play something weak on purpose then complain it's weak and you're not enjoying it. you choose what you play, and since I know Ithilwen owns both expansions- I know she can play OP to incredibly strong mesmer builds if she wants to. it's her choice to play weak builds, so she's got no grounds to complain about her builds being weak- she choose to play them over builds that are straight up BS OP.