A Message About the Mount Adoption License

[AnodicShadow.3647]

I bet all the people saying that they will tell everyone that GW2 is a horrible game that nobody should play would absolutely _love_ it if someone decided to dissuade people from investing in the companies they work at themselves. Seriously? You want the entire company of ArenaNet and GW2 to topple just because of the current Adoption Licenses not being changed? You want the years and years of hard work that many members of the community have spent building relationships, fortifying communities, and reaching goals to be just... deleted? To many people, GW2 isn't just a game. It's a place where they have met lifelong friends and in some cases, lovers. It's a place where they can login and talk to others about the troubles going on in their lives and be met with a lot of support. In my case, it's what gave me the final push towards deciding that my career goal in life is to become a fantasy novelist. Does none of that matter? The almost three years that I have spent playing Guild Wars 2 have been the best times of my life. I have met great people through this game who I consider to be better friends than I have ever made in real life and _refuse_ to let the amazing memories I have forged with them and to just be... _shattered_.

[MrMouser.6583]

Lets take a look at WoW pricing of microtransaction.

Before you look, remember, box price is way more than GW2 and you pay a 15$ a month to play it, unless you have no life and have a lot of gold to buy the sub with gold.

https://eu.shop.battle.net/en-gb/family/world-of-warcraft#mounts

Tell me how is the reforged skin expensive? are people that blind and can't see its an actual remodel? that takes a lot of time and resources to make? plus no one forces you to buy it, its not mandatory, its something that people buy to one be a bit more unique and two, to support the game. Prices will never be a problem in a game such as quildwars, problem is the RNG aspect and the ridiculous number of the skins from the start or the lack of option to at least pick a mount type, and the lank of obtainable armor/glider and now mount skins in game. Trow us a stupid collection that doesn't make sense, have a bit of map currency and gold sink and we be alright.

So do us all a solid and stop complaining about the gem price as long as you will have the option to pay with gold for it. A game like this needs to fund itself. Another thing is, GW2 doesn't sell things you need to buy, it sells things you want to have, think about it for a second before you spew your mindless opinion on the internet and pretend its a fact.

Complain about the RNG, that is a problem in this case, GW2 in general has a RNG problem, there is a lot of improvement to be made on that front or maybe that's the price we pay for not competing for loot like you do in other mmo's.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Vanity Flare.8539" said:

> Stick your non apology up your kitten hole. You will not see another red cent from me until you remove this rng GARBAGE from the game. I will NEVER recommend your game to ANYONE again. I've played both gw games for like a decade and this is the pathetic excuse of an apology you give? This is the beginning of the end for your company you have just pissed off entirely too many people to EVER recover from whoever's idiotic idea this was. You have so many great idea's for how to remedy this DISGUSTING PREDATORY TACTIC and you're going to choose to do nothing instead? Your company cannot actually be that stupid to ever think this lame kitten attempt to "fix" things would work. I'm am sitting here aghast at how willfully ignorant you're choosing to be.

>

> Every. Single. Gamer. On the earth knows about how ALL of us DESPISE RNG BS/loot boxes and not one person in the company said "hey wait guys everyone is going to hate us for this you really think it's a good idea" . They probably did and you fired them for not wanting to GOUGE your playerbase. You have effectively signed the death warrant of this game so good kitten job guys. The whole company needs to go look in a kitten mirror until you FEEL the shame you deserve.

>

> Thank you for destroying a decade of my life with this asinine SCAMMY SCUMMY kitten.

 

I have found that the worse an idea is the more likely it is to come from someone high up who is not involved with the day-to-day realities lower tier people know about. Unfortunately the people who have the instinct 'hey, this is a REALLY bad idea' are rarely empowered to say so.

[Djinn.9245]

> @Devildoc.6721 said:

> > @StaggerLee.6397 said:

> > Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

>

> Unfortunately yes if you compare it to similar items in other MMO's. WoW sells $25 mount skins and it's a subscription game. ESO has mounts between $9-$30. LotRO between $10-$25.

 

As other people have pointed out, WoW sells mounts for a premium price because they are extremely nice looking mounts, but the VAST majority of their mounts are available in-game. *WoW has over 400 mounts and only sells 11 in their store!* I went to their store and counted them. So there is literally no need for a player to purchase a mount from the store give the huge number of mounts available in the game.

[Oglaf.1074]

Someone mail this stupid statement to Jim Sterling, please.

 

He needs to make a follow-up video on this tragically hilarious response.

[crashburntoo.7431]

Ok, my thoughts for Anet... your response itself is excellent, but the decision to leave the mounts locked behind RNG is a little disappointing. It was great to get some feedback into your process and why you went this route. Large selection/variety with affordable pricing, I can understand the model. I'm also pleased to see that you've heard the feedback and that you'll make changes in the future.

 

A few suggestions:

 

1. Don't be afraid to let people know (soon) that you'll make the original 30 available as packs or individual sales, maybe in 6 months or a year. Obviously the pricing will be higher. For those who want them now or that are Pokemon masters at heart, they can catch 'em all at the lowest price per skin right now. The gamble remains, but it's understood.

2. For future releases, go with pricing that matches up with some of the glider skins, tools and toys. A 400-1000 gem range per skin and 1600-2000 gem pack price is decent. I think you'll see a lot of activity and happy customers. If you stick with 1600-2000 gems per skin for singles, the sentiment will be different.

3. Really consider packaging with standard, elite and legendary in mind. I'm sure you have the Marketing and Development knowledge to put together stuff that will be representative of the work that went into it while not inducing sticker shock.

4. I've worked in Sales for >10yrs, and one of the best things I learned was:

 

**S** - Stop - don't get ahead of yourself, developing a strategy from inside a box might leave you with a disappointing product/solution

**A** - Ask - your community would love to be asked questions... the auto-draft versus manual draft save poll is one example... we'd love to offer advice

**L** - Listen - obviously the other half of ask and this thread shows that you've listened to recent concerns

**E** - Empathize - this ties to listen; you've got to put yourself in the customer's shoes... Golden Rule kind of stuff

 

In closing, thank you for taking the time to read our feedback and for responding in kind. It means a lot to have some insight into your process and an idea of how you'll proceed. I want this game and Anet to be successful and profitable for a very long time.

[Sold Out.7625]

> @Tydides.9268 said:

> Thank you, Mo. This means a lot. You guys have always been awesome with your commitment to your consumers - it’s one of the reasons I’m happy to support the game and the gem store.

>

> The only thing I’d ask is a way to get some of the thirty mounts individually - perhaps at a higher price, or through the trading post? If you did that, the solution would be perfect.

>

> Something like an extra, 800 gem special ticket that lets you pick your mount.

>

> Again, thank you. Path of Fire has been amazing and exciting; now I can feel amazed and excited again.

 

Oh, don't thank him. What commitment has he shown here? All he did was say that he thinks RNG boxes are good, that they will completely price gouge on individual future skins by making them cost 2000 gems and that there might be other RNG boxes in the future.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @Deihnyx.6318 said:

>

> Then they crossed the line day 1st with lion keys, which was back at the beginning of the game.

> Their implementation was logical, not malicious, the backslash was overreacting though, considering this was all already in game.

>

> Players voted with their wallet but they did it years ago.

 

What does it matter if a lot of people have been figuratively "asleep" regarding the gem store's use of RNG sales? A lot more are "awake" now. Better late than never. My preference is that they should not go back to "sleep," and that is what your response encourages. If ANet is hoping for a fatalistic response such as yours from a lot more people, I'd just as soon the community disappoint them. It's never too late to try to promote positive change in the consumer experience.

 

Disclaimer: I do not participate in nor condone singling out players in game or forum and blaming/shaming them because they bought into the marketing system. Nor do I condone bitter and abusive language aimed at ANet.

[Djinn.9245]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> > @Elyssa.8307 said:

> > You can't call it a microtransaction when the bundle costs twice as much as the game! Also, why have you not addressed the main issue e.g not a single one acquired through gameplay?

>

> Why? You are buying 30 diff skins why wouldnt that be exp? The microtransactions part is for the 1 on 1 purchase for those who want all of them theres a discounted but still high price.

 

How many different skins & animals were introduced in PoF? Far more than 30. Then add THE STORY, all the huge maps with the vistas/POI/HP/MP, all the hearts, all the events, all the JP, all the mounts, all the mount acquisitions, all the races, all the bounties, all the NPCs / dialogue, etc. You really think that only 30 mount skins should even approach the price of the entire expansion? ROFLMAO!

[Oglaf.1074]

Re BLC:

 

Lets not pretend that these and the pet adoption liscenses are equal. You can earn Keys in-game to open them with, and (At least up until recent months - now it seems they are intent on making BLC rewards account bound, too. Le sigh.) the top-tier rewards such as skins have been tradeable between players so even if you didn't get what you want, you could be reinbursed by selling it to others.

 

No such "positive" exists with the pet adoption licenses. Heck, you can end up getting a Griffon skins without having the 250g (or the will to spend said gold on it) for the Griffon which means you'll end up with a truly useless skin that you cannot do anything with!

 

So lets be real: both suck, but BLC clearly suck less.

[Umbramare.9156]

> @jediwolf.8724 said:

> It was great to get a response. Thanks for that. We can all understand that you are looking for ways to improve revenue streams. But to hide this behind RNG was a mistake.

> Trying to reverse it might have been a total mess of a refund process. It's done. Lets move on and see what comes out in the future. I am sure the Wintersday mount package of skins is just around the corner.

>

 

Nope, not moving on. This adoption license is will be kittensprinkles on anything positive anet does.

 

Trust has been abused. Any goodwill left from the PoF purchase is gone. Now they're just another EA, Ubisoft or Activision.

[Arda.2490]

Arena don't care about what their community think.... They will sell more skin for 2000gems (25€ for a skin seriously ?) You will never get my money anymore.

[Djinn.9245]

> @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > @OmskCamill.6412 said:

> > > @SansSariph.9548 said:

> >

> > > Losing a gamble feels bad. Mike seems to argue that you never "lose" - you always get a brand new skin! We all know that getting a skimmer skin with slight model updates is not the same as getting a griffon with particle effects. The player hoping for the griffon is going to be sad when they get a more simple skin for a mount they use less often.

> >

> > Saying that you can't lose because worst case scenario you still get a skin that you don't want is like saying you can't lose in a lottery because worst case scenario you still got a scrap of paper. It's hypocricy.

> >

>

> Your analogy is true for the BL chests, it's not for mount adoption, where every new try increases the chance of getting what you want.

>

I don't want to PURCHASE an increased chance of getting what I want! The VAST majority of those skins I will NEVER use if I happen to get them. I don't like the boring recolors, so any of those I get are wasted. I mainly ride the Jackal so I really don't want to purchase a skin for the Raptor, Skimmer, or Springer since I only use them for a couple minutes to traverse some barrier. If I get one of the Jackal skins I want after even 10 tries (probably more given my luck), that would mean that I paid 4000 gems for 1 Jackal skin!

[Wildfang.3271]

> @Djinn.9245 said:

> > @Devildoc.6721 said:

> > > @StaggerLee.6397 said:

> > > Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

> >

> > Unfortunately yes if you compare it to similar items in other MMO's. WoW sells $25 mount skins and it's a subscription game. ESO has mounts between $9-$30. LotRO between $10-$25.

>

> As other people have pointed out, WoW sells mounts for a premium price because they are extremely nice looking mounts, but the VAST majority of their mounts are available in-game. *WoW has over 400 mounts and only sells 11 in their store!* I went to their store and counted them. So there is literally no need for a player to purchase a mount from the store give the huge number of mounts available in the game.

 

Well, just out of curiousity sake, why is it that WoW has so many mounts in game? Is it because :

A. Blizzard is altruistic?

B. Blizzard wants to have too many things for players to strive to achieve/get so that they will keep on subbing like a hamster on a wheel?

C. (You come up with any good valid reason)

 

For me, I think the answer is B.

Now since GW2 doesn't have any sub system like WoW, does ANET benefit much from adding so many mount skins and only selling just a few like WoW? Would those sell enough to pay for server costs/employees' salaries? And ppl already do complain about the 2k gem prices for the warhound atm.

Don't get me wrong, I would like ANET to add some mount skins to the game as well but wanting them to do everything similar to WoW is kinda silly considering the size of company and amount of assets.

[Maryth.9372]

Nice sentiment and I appreciate being heard. Now, rather than "next time" how about you return the gems to everyone who purchased the 2K gem skin and any of the 30 random draw skins and let's start over. Show me you really wanted to get this right. Just sayin'

[Fox.3469]

> @Wildfang.3271 said:

> > @Djinn.9245 said:

> > > @Devildoc.6721 said:

> > > > @StaggerLee.6397 said:

> > > > Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

> > >

> > > Unfortunately yes if you compare it to similar items in other MMO's. WoW sells $25 mount skins and it's a subscription game. ESO has mounts between $9-$30. LotRO between $10-$25.

> >

> > As other people have pointed out, WoW sells mounts for a premium price because they are extremely nice looking mounts, but the VAST majority of their mounts are available in-game. *WoW has over 400 mounts and only sells 11 in their store!* I went to their store and counted them. So there is literally no need for a player to purchase a mount from the store give the huge number of mounts available in the game.

>

> Well, just out of curiousity sake, why is it that WoW has so many mounts in game? Is it because :

> A. Blizzard is altruistic?

> B. Blizzard wants to have too many things for players to strive to achieve/get so that they will keep on subbing like a hamster on a wheel?

> C. (You come up with any good valid reason)

>

> For me, I think the answer is B.

> Now since GW2 doesn't have any sub system like WoW, does ANET benefit much from adding so many mount skins and only selling just a few like WoW? Would those sell enough to pay for server costs/employees' salaries? And ppl already do complain about the 2k gem prices for the warhound atm.

> Don't get me wrong, I would like ANET to add some mount skins to the game as well but wanting them to do everything similar to WoW is kinda silly considering the size of company and amount of assets.

 

That is a problem though, what you just said is a major issue. GW2 PoF has no incentive for people to keep playing. And maybe you'll make more money from people visiting only when the updates drop, completeling stuff and then leaving till the next update, but as an mmo that can't be healthy.

[Poi.6541]

I feel bad for the community managers in times like these. It's not that they have bad responses, it's what they can and cannot say to reflect the company's policies in sensitive situations like these. I feel like the official statement is really weak and that it essentially says; "This was a better way to earn money faster from you to continue supporting our live development.". Which is pretty understandable. But I call BS on business models, this being the only way to monetize effectively enough. Oh well.

[Djinn.9245]

> @Mentor.4130 said:

>

> > Enjoy individual mount skins being more expensive so they can recoup their losses. Now instead of getting 2 or 3 nice skins, we'll get one.

>

> So which is better? Paying a bit more for skin you actually want or pay a lot more to get skin you want if rng gods are against you? Which happens most of the time.

>

>

This is exactly why MMOs use gamble boxes: many people enjoy gambling. Look at people who throw tons of Rares into the MF hoping for a precursor. It makes no sense to purchase thousands of rares to throw away when you could save your gold and simply purchase a precursor on the TP. But some people love to gamble.

[Arda.2490]

> We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made,

It's YOUR fault, you should have react faster ....

[Djinn.9245]

> @"Tiny Doom.4380" said:

> > @inubasiri.8745 said:

>

> > Except in Magic's case, pretty much nobody opens boosters for the RNG anymore. What happens is that shops open thousands of booster packs at once and then put the individual cards on sale. And thus it's not the same thing at all.

> >

>

> Are you serious? I work in a bookshop that sells Magic Card Boosters and no-one has ever done that, nor has any customer ever asked if we do. Is that even legal?

 

You work at a bookshop, not a game shop which is why you don't understand how this works. Most regular bookshops aren't going to sell single cards.

[gaborkaldy.3210]

This far in the selling I was almost sure, the current licenses won't / can't be changed without:

 

1/ Resetting all license buying (which is damaging ANETs income and tons of additional background work required)

2/ Hurting the interests of the other part of the playerbase who were... khm lets say "excited" enough to buy in into this garbage

 

As for now I close this thread for myself. As I told before I am not going to spend a singe cent on this gambling license, and no way ANET will see my money in the foreseeable future.

 

Alltogether this was poor thinking. I am dissapointed.

[troops.8276]

> @Gray.9041 said:

> > @Nightmare.1234 said:

> > It takes a lot for a company to admit they made an oversight into the backlash they would receive from this trial. people should be happy with the outcome that mo as posted as it a win for the gw2 community that your voices are heard

>

> There was no admission of fault here. if anything, there was an admission that they didn't expect this reaction - which just shows how bad Anet are at effectively communicating with their playerbase.

>

> Not only that, but Mo's post fails to cover many of the issues brought up around this, which further shows that Anet doesn't understand their players, and proves that our voices _have not been heard_.

>

> >and you can make a difference maybe not directly now (to the current situation) but to the gw2 market structure down the road. if more and more companies can slowly start drifting from this shady loot box practice that infecting games these days then

>

> Except there's no indication that this has changed anything. Mo said nothing about abandoning the adoption lisences - only shifting focus away from them for the next few releases. There's also no mention of the issues with bundle-exclusive skins, or the insane pricing of the only individual skin.

>

> There's nothing in his post to imply even the slightest improvement in sales practices.

>

> > we can get back to a time when in game markets are like a shop. you see the product on show, you see its price if you can afford it you buy it, if not you don't or you save up for it or wait for a sale to be on.

>

> This is the ideal, but there's nothing in Mo's post that makes me think this is going to happen.

>

> > we are making a difference, thanks Anet for listening

>

> We're really not. the entire thing was empty PR talk and handwaving, coupled with a pitiful show of disconnect from the community. I fully expect this entire response to do more harm than good, and I expect this entire release to do not-insignificant damage to the game as a whole.

>

>

 

I wonder how much $$$ this one sales strategy brought in. Surely it's in the millions?

Any guesses anybody?> @AnodicShadow.3647 said:

> I bet all the people saying that they will tell everyone that GW2 is a horrible game that nobody should play would absolutely _love_ it if someone decided to dissuade people from investing in the companies they work at themselves. Seriously? You want the entire company of ArenaNet and GW2 to topple just because of the current Adoption Licenses not being changed? You want the years and years of hard work that many members of the community have spent building relationships, fortifying communities, and reaching goals to be just... deleted? To many people, GW2 isn't just a game. It's a place where they have met lifelong friends and in some cases, lovers. It's a place where they can login and talk to others about the troubles going on in their lives and be met with a lot of support. In my case, it's what gave me the final push towards deciding that my career goal in life is to become a fantasy novelist. Does none of that matter? The almost three years that I have spent playing Guild Wars 2 have been the best times of my life. I have met great people through this game who I consider to be better friends than I have ever made in real life and _refuse_ to let the amazing memories I have forged with them and to just be... _shattered_.

 

Actually the company that owns Anet is NCsoft and its share value has more than doubled in the last two years. No one is saying don't invest in the company (which is NCsoft, Anet is a subsidiary so you can't actually invest in them directly) but rather people are saying they won't buy the product or recommend it to anyone. And that is their right. Why on earth should a consumer continue to buy and pay for a product, or recommend it, if they are not happy with it. That's how consumerism works. And people absolutely should vote with their wallets, even on the ethos of the company that produces the product, as that's how the capitalist democracy model works. If having a better ethos, or brand image, gives you an edge in the market then companies may choose to move in that direction to keep their customers happy. That's how business works. That's how the whole system works, it's all part and parcel of the same thing. For you to advocate against that, and by emotional blackmail, is understandable as you are clearly far to heavily emotionally invested in a product but it does not make you right by any standards.

[Mentor.4130]

> @Djinn.9245 said:

> > @Mentor.4130 said:

> >

> > > Enjoy individual mount skins being more expensive so they can recoup their losses. Now instead of getting 2 or 3 nice skins, we'll get one.

> >

> > So which is better? Paying a bit more for skin you actually want or pay a lot more to get skin you want if rng gods are against you? Which happens most of the time.

> >

> >

> This is exactly why MMOs use gamble boxes: many people enjoy gambling. Look at people who throw tons of Rares into the MF hoping for a precursor. It makes no sense to purchase thousands of rares to throw away when you could save your gold and simply purchase a precursor on the TP. But some people love to gamble.

 

I don't mind people gambling if they want to (except when minors involved). But do mind if players that dont like gambling dont have any other means getting what they desire. You mentioned precursors, we have more options to get precursors: world drop (got 2), crafting (made most of my collection that way), buy from TP ... Do I (dont like gambling) have same/similar options getting mount skins like I have for precursor? No. In short, I want more options to get stuff. Dont force me to gamble, not with ingame money and defenately not with my real money.

[Rashagar.8349]

 

> @Oglaf.1074 said:

> Someone mail this stupid statement to Jim Sterling, please.

>

> He needs to make a follow-up video on this tragically hilarious response.

 

Did you just tune out the part of his video where he repeatedly stated he didn't know much about the subject? And the part where he said that the only reason he was making the video was because his inbox had been flooded by frothing idiots chomping at the bit? Admittedly I'm paraphrasing.

[Djinn.9245]

> @Wildfang.3271 said:

> > @Djinn.9245 said:

> > > @Devildoc.6721 said:

> > > > @StaggerLee.6397 said:

> > > > Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

> > >

> > > Unfortunately yes if you compare it to similar items in other MMO's. WoW sells $25 mount skins and it's a subscription game. ESO has mounts between $9-$30. LotRO between $10-$25.

> >

> > As other people have pointed out, WoW sells mounts for a premium price because they are extremely nice looking mounts, but the VAST majority of their mounts are available in-game. *WoW has over 400 mounts and only sells 11 in their store!* I went to their store and counted them. So there is literally no need for a player to purchase a mount from the store give the huge number of mounts available in the game.

>

> Well, just out of curiousity sake, why is it that WoW has so many mounts in game? Is it because :

> A. Blizzard is altruistic?

> B. Blizzard wants to have too many things for players to strive to achieve/get so that they will keep on subbing like a hamster on a wheel?

> C. (You come up with any good valid reason)

>

> For me, I think the answer is B.

> Now since GW2 doesn't have any sub system like WoW, does ANET benefit much from adding so many mount skins and only selling just a few like WoW? Would those sell enough to pay for server costs/employees' salaries? And ppl already do complain about the 2k gem prices for the warhound atm.

> Don't get me wrong, I would like ANET to add some mount skins to the game as well but wanting them to do everything similar to WoW is kinda silly considering the size of company and amount of assets.

 

Who said anything about Blizzard being altruistic? I'm talking about Blizzard being SMART! Yes, they provided huge amounts of CONTENT in their game so players will continue to enjoy and play their game - what a concept! Will GW2 players continue to purchase gems when they've run out of content and don't play the game anymore?

 

But that wasn't my point - my point was that it doesn't matter that WoW sells 11 mounts in their store for $25 each because the vast majority of players don't need to purchase those mounts - they have 400 other mounts that they can get. GW2 players don't have that choice. We have the base mounts and that's it. Then GW2 adds only these choices on the store:

 

1600 gems: Spooky Mounts Pack (skins for all 5 mounts, no single skins available)

2000 gems: Reforged Warhound (single Jackal skin)

9600 gems: Mount Adoption License 30 Pack (only way to guarantee you get the skins you want)

OR 400 gems per random Mount Adoption License. No way to simply get the skin you want.

 

So what CHOICE do GW2 players have in getting mounts? You can CHOOSE the Spooky Mounts for 1600 gems (not anymore) or the Reforged Warhound for 2000 gems. That's it for being able to make an actual choice.