How happy are you with Guild Wars 2 right now?

[RoChan.1926]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @RoChan.1926 said:

> > > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > > @Athrenn.9468 said:

> > > > If they were included, new players would pay for the expac you would also get the Living Stories. If you don't log in during the time they are active even if you have the expansion you don't gain access to the living stories that were released that are related to the expac. It's not included with the expac it's never been and the idea that it's part of it needs to stop and at most can be considered DLC that is related.

> > >

> > > Ok, then answer this. What if you *do* log into the game even once during the period during which the Living World chapter is available, how much extra do you have to pay to play that content?

> > >

> > >

> > Better question. If they were part of the expac why are they not advertised as part of it on the actual store front?

> >

>

> Because the PoF content is available at launch, the LW content comes later. If they advertised it as being part of the package then people would be even more confused that it wasn't there.

 

We have a precedence we can look at called HoT and evaluate since at the time we are discussing this we do not know what they have in store for PoF. Now this can all change with PoF and they can start charging everyone, new and old to LS4 or they can charge no one for LS4 only time will tell, but I highly doubt Anet are going to change their practices with LS4. So forget about PoF and think of just HoT instead. HoT isn't packaged with the LS3 and it's not even mentioned as part of the expansion, because even Anet knows it's not part of the expansion. It's a separate, carved-out experience to bridge the gap between expansions. When Anet sells HoT they are only selling what comes directly within the expansion. So if Anet is considering and selling it that way, why do you believe it's part of it?

[Dashiva.6149]

Gemstore shenanigans aside, I think the game as a whole is in a pretty good spot after 5 years , at least for the content I enjoy the most. Sure, there is always room for improvement but there is nothing ingame that I have major issues with at the moment.

 

Except Braham of course. Because that is one annoying character I could live without.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @RoChan.1926 said:

> When Anet sells HoT they are only selling what comes directly within the expansion. So if Anet is considering and selling it that way, why do you believe it's part of it?

 

Because HoT is required to access the LWs3 content, whether or not you try to buy it separately, and because if you did buy HoT and were playing at the time, you did not have to buy the LWs3 content separately. There definitely are conditions on the arrangement, but LWs3 definitely flowed from HoT just as LWs2 flowed from the base game.

 

 

[RoChan.1926]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @RoChan.1926 said:

> > When Anet sells HoT they are only selling what comes directly within the expansion. So if Anet is considering and selling it that way, why do you believe it's part of it?

>

> Because HoT is required to access the LWs3 content, whether or not you try to buy it separately, and because if you did buy HoT and were playing at the time, you did not have to buy the LWs3 content separately. There definitely are conditions on the arrangement, but LWs3 definitely flowed from HoT just as LWs2 flowed from the base game.

>

>

 

Being gated does not mean inclusion.

 

Consider that even the jargon when talking about the base expansion and how additional content are described. It's called Heart of Thorns expansion but the additional content are called Living World Season 3. When it's announced it's called "The return of the Living Word!" not "The continuation of Heart of Thorns story!" The chapters in HoT are called Acts where as in Living Story they are called Episodes. They indicate a clear cut difference, separation, and non-inclusion because they are separate content that happen to bridge story from story to another with most plot points completed, but most importantly completing the main plot point of the expansion.

 

If you log into the game during the active LS episode you pay 0 gems for a limited time once the limited time offer expires you pay the regular price of 200 gems per episode. What other limited time offer do you consider part of something when you purchase? I'd really like to know of an example because I honestly have never seen one. A limited time offer is just that. If they wanted to they could start charging the player base 1 gem or 100 gems because the current offer on the table is 0 gems. So just because we **currently** pay 0 gems doesn't mean that it's included in the expansion price (because it isn't included in the price when others have to pay for it separately). And again I re-iterate this strongly, you can own the expansion and not have access to the Living World episodes. You can also qualify for the limited time offer without the expansion. If they were so integrated as you claim, neither of those two facts would be true.

 

When you, Anet, I, the game shop describe what is included in your purchase for an expansion (HoT for example) you do not include LS3 into it because when you pay the price of the expansion as sold by the store front you **only** have access to what you paid for. You don't get to access the new zones, new masteries, or any other accouterments that come with the Living Story 3 you only get HoT maps, achievements, masteries, etc. That's it. The rest is extra, except for a limited time offer of 0 gems for the first 2 months. And if you aren't explicitly telling new players that what the get if they purchase HoT expansion is just what they actually can access prior to any additional payments then you are being dishonest with them.

[MarkoNS.3261]

i only log in to do raids on monday, and daily fractals other then that the game does not offer me anything interesting or rewarding to do.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @RoChan.1926 said:

> And again I re-iterate this strongly, you can own the expansion and not have access to the Living World episodes. You can also qualify for the limited time offer without the expansion. If they were so integrated as you claim, neither of those two facts would be true.

 

Is that true? I've never tested it myself but were people who were F2P while LWs3 was going on able to unlock the LW chapters for free? You can't actually play them without HoT, right? At the very least it would be very difficult to navigate some of the maps without gliding. I will point out one distinction in your theory though, if you unlock them by logging in at the time, it is not "being able to buy it for 0 gems," its just playing the game. You never have to actually go into the Gem Store and make a purchase of any kind, which is NOT the case with any other "sale" in the game, in which they *do* list a gem store item at a "cost" of 0 gems.

 

>When you, Anet, I, the game shop describe what is included in your purchase for an expansion (HoT for example) you do not include LS3 into it because when you pay the price of the expansion as sold by the store front you only have access to what you paid for.

 

I don't agree with your interpretation, but I am curious why you seem so very hung up on this semantic point. What is your practical angle on this discussion?

 

 

[Myrdreth.6829]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> I was in the mostly happy category this time last week, but the Mount Skins thing put me in a bad mood. I still think most of the game is in a good place, which is why I didn't want to say that I was "mostly unhappy," but they NEED to do something about the 30 skins locked behind the gambling box before I would consider giving them any more money.

 

Yeah, me too.

[RoChan.1926]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @RoChan.1926 said:

> > And again I re-iterate this strongly, you can own the expansion and not have access to the Living World episodes. You can also qualify for the limited time offer without the expansion. If they were so integrated as you claim, neither of those two facts would be true.

>

> Is that true? I've never tested it myself but were people who were F2P while LWs3 was going on able to unlock the LW chapters for free? You can't actually play them without HoT, right? At the very least it would be very difficult to navigate some of the maps without gliding. I will point out one distinction in your theory though, if you unlock them by logging in at the time, it is not "being able to buy it for 0 gems," its just playing the game. You never have to actually go into the Gem Store and make a purchase of any kind, which is NOT the case with any other "sale" in the game, in which they *do* list a gem store item at a "cost" of 0 gems.

 

I actually owned LS3 before I bought HoT recently so it is true, you can own LS3 without HoT and can potentially own both LS3 and LS4 without HoT or PoF. You can't play them without the expansion but you do have them without it. You also cannot directly buy the Living Stories in the store directly and must go through your journal ( I am making the assumption that it might have something to do with coding or in general with the way the LS in implemented) as you buy it directly from your journal that takes you to a cash shop check out. So yeah 0 gem items that already exist in the cash shop can show that but the LS is handled differently and not purchasable directly through the cash ship to show case that it's either buy or locked. But here is an exert from the wiki regarding unlocking the stories.

 

```Episodes of the Living World must be unlocked in order to play them. Unlocked episodes can be accessed by any level 80 character on your account. There are two methods for unlocking episodes. Episodes can be unlocked for free simply by logging in to any character during the episode's original release window. This lasts until the next episode is released; for Season 3 (current season), episodes are on a cadence to be released two to three months apart. After the release window, players can unlock the episode for 200 Gem. The journal will indicate this with a "lock" icon and a "Buy Now" button. ```

 

> I don't agree with your interpretation, but I am curious why you seem so very hung up on this semantic point. What is your practical angle on this discussion?

I figured semantics would come up at some point. You yourself are hung up on the phrase "inaccessible without the X expansion" where as I am looking at it from a more practical, face value point of view where "what am I paying for?" actually has context and definable data. If you were to buy HoT today on a brand new account you only have access to what is in the actual expansion itself, you can even create a list based on what is on the cash shop store front. When you look into your journal you have lock on the LS3 tab indicating no access. So if it's included why then are you paying for a separate purchase?

[Zaklex.6308]

I have no problems with GW2, it's a GAME, so it doesn't have to satisfy my every whim.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @RoChan.1926 said:

> I figured semantics would come up at some point. You yourself are hung up on the phrase "inaccessible without the X expansion" where as I am looking at it from a more practical, face value point of view where "what am I paying for?" actually has context and definable data. If you were to buy HoT today on a brand new account you only have access to what is in the actual expansion itself, you can even create a list based on what is on the cash shop store front. When you look into your journal you have lock on the LS3 tab indicating no access. So if it's included why then are you paying for a separate purchase?

 

But again, if you bought HoT any time before spring of 2015, and you logged into the client during that period, then the content is *just available,* ready and waiting to play, free of charge, no purchase necessary, not even for zero gems. It is just content in the game. And it's clearly not content that they intend to be paid for by purchasing it directly, since most likely only a tiny fraction of the people that play it actually do that relative to the numbers that "get it for free." Ultimately, I guess it's up to ANet to define what they consider it to be, but I've always just considered it to be a natural extension of the previous expansion's content, just as s1-2 was a natural extension of the original box purchase. I considered the payment for picking the chapters up late to be less of a "deferred payment," and more of a "late fee" for not logging in for it earlier.

 

I guess the closest example that I can think of would be TV, where in the modern era, a show will come on at, say, 8PM tonight, and if I watch it at 8PM tonight, it's totally free. And because I have a cable-provided DVR, I could record that program, and save it on my cable box, indefinitely, and watch it months later unless I removed it. For free.

And I can also watch the show On Demand any time I want, for free, but in most cases only for a fixed period of time, maybe a month, maybe six weeks, eight, something in that range. If I wanted to watch that show three months from now, when it had cycled out of the active programs, I could no longer watch it for free. I'd have to pay maybe a few bucks to purchase or rent that episode in order to watch it. Of course all of that is contingent on having bought into the cable system in the first place, much like the expansion.

 

Now, personally, I do think they could do a little better on this. I do think they could offer better bundled rates and special deals on older content, so that more casually-minded people could pick it up for "whatever" money, but I see the value in having some sort of incentive to "get it while it's hot," and the associated fees are relatively minor in the grand scheme of things.

[Condutas.3580]

I have waited some months to actually read and hear the comments about the expansion, didn't rush or bought it yet.

 

The new gambling system of getting new pet skins killed it for me, Not gonna buy the new expansion unless they change it.

 

Besides, I already have pointless gambling in games like Overwatch... not gonna help sail this boat.

[RoChan.1926]

> @Zaklex.6308 said:

> I have no problems with GW2, it's a GAME, so it doesn't have to satisfy my every whim.

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @RoChan.1926 said:

> > I figured semantics would come up at some point. You yourself are hung up on the phrase "inaccessible without the X expansion" where as I am looking at it from a more practical, face value point of view where "what am I paying for?" actually has context and definable data. If you were to buy HoT today on a brand new account you only have access to what is in the actual expansion itself, you can even create a list based on what is on the cash shop store front. When you look into your journal you have lock on the LS3 tab indicating no access. So if it's included why then are you paying for a separate purchase?

>

> But again, if you bought HoT any time before spring of 2015, and you logged into the client during that period, then the content is *just available,* ready and waiting to play, free of charge, no purchase necessary, not even for zero gems. It is just content in the game. And it's clearly not content that they intend to be paid for by purchasing it directly, since most likely only a tiny fraction of the people that play it actually do that relative to the numbers that "get it for free." Ultimately, I guess it's up to ANet to define what they consider it to be, but I've always just considered it to be a natural extension of the previous expansion's content, just as s1-2 was a natural extension of the original box purchase. I considered the payment for picking the chapters up late to be less of a "deferred payment," and more of a "late fee" for not logging in for it earlier.

>

> I guess the closest example that I can think of would be TV, where in the modern era, a show will come on at, say, 8PM tonight, and if I watch it at 8PM tonight, it's totally free. And because I have a cable-provided DVR, I could record that program, and save it on my cable box, indefinitely, and watch it months later unless I removed it. For free.

> And I can also watch the show On Demand any time I want, for free, but in most cases only for a fixed period of time, maybe a month, maybe six weeks, eight, something in that range. If I wanted to watch that show three months from now, when it had cycled out of the active programs, I could no longer watch it for free. I'd have to pay maybe a few bucks to purchase or rent that episode in order to watch it. Of course all of that is contingent on having bought into the cable system in the first place, much like the expansion.

>

> Now, personally, I do think they could do a little better on this. I do think they could offer better bundled rates and special deals on older content, so that more casually-minded people could pick it up for "whatever" money, but I see the value in having some sort of incentive to "get it while it's hot," and the associated fees are relatively minor in the grand scheme of things.

 

I am not debating the value of it per say, but I will consistently state that because it's a separate purchase it has its own value outside of the expansion and visa versa. The problem I have with the statement of being included with the expansion is that whenever someone is being critical of an specific expansion, like the current PoF, someone always chimes in with "But LS4!" when it's a own entity with it's own story. Worse is that I have seen people actually tell new players that LS is included which then creates a confusion with LS3 and HoT which then someone has to clarify. I've had so many map debates because I explain that it's a separate, stand alone purchase outside of the expansions if you missed it. :/ So the more people continue to believe in the "it's free on release so it's part of it" the more it creates problems and is disingenuous. It's not sold or advertised that way by anyone but veteran players and I cannot fathom as to why. State the facts not opinions is all I am asking for in terms of Expansions/Living Stories and when criticizing please apply it correctly.

 

I suppose we can always ask Anet but I don't know, other than Customer Service (and I don't think they would know anything outside of the unlocking methods), how to contact them for an actual answer that would put this to rest (not that I feel they would give a direct answer per say because if they say inclusive then people are going to be mad about a separate purchase).

[Vayne.8563]

> @Athrenn.9468 said:

> > @Ashen.2907 said:

> > > @Athrenn.9468 said:

> > > Aside from my personal opinions about the quality of storytelling from Season 3 to Path of Fire...

> > >

> > > >! (just as a 'brief' note (okay, maybe not brief at all), my problem with the last two story arcs is that the villain felt one dimensional, the pacing was unfocused and the big identity reveal was not foreshadowed properly. Writers need to play fair with their audience and their plot twists are poorly executed. That, and they tried to pack too many villains into six episodes, thus resulting in the anticlimactic resolution of the White Mantle, Jormag and Primordus plot threads in a way that was unsatisfactory. The writers need to just focus on one good antagonist and flesh out the PC's conflict with them rather than telling a bunch of separate and unrelated stories at the same time and rushing through all of them.)

> > >

> > > ...my main problem with Guild Wars 2 right now is that I feel kept in the dark about what I'm getting for the money I already paid. Normally a company who's selling you a product will tell you, "For $30, you get 11 new maps, 9 story episodes, 9 elite specializations, 4 raid wings, 1 new PvP game types, Etc. Etc." To me, that is what an honest business practice looks like. You tell me what you're offering and I'll tell you whether I want to buy it. That is not what I've been seeing post-Heart of Thorns.

> > >

> > > How many maps do I get for $30? Sure, there's the 5 base maps of the expansion, but how many Living World episodes do I get for my money's worth? I don't count LW as a free add-on that the 'generous' developers are giving me, they count as part of the expansion and I want to know how many episodes I'm getting. When Wrath of the Lich King was in presales, Blizzard told everyone up front what we were getting: 8 new zones, level increase, deathknight class, 1 new PvP game types, and a specific amount of raid wings and dungeons. That is the kind of honest dealing I expect from the industry.

> > >

> > > How many new raid wings am I getting and when will they be ready for release? There is no guarantee how much content we'll be getting or even when, just that it will come out when they say it's ready. When WotLK was released, most raids we're there and ready to go immediately. Again, that is what the industry standard should be in my opinion.

> > >

> > > I think it's my right as a customer to know how much content I'm getting and when I'll be getting it if they're already asking me to reach for my wallet. That's how honest business should be conducted, not this 'surprise-you-later' model where I'm not even told how many episodes of LW I'm getting until the penultimate episode goes live, thus telling me that there's only one more episode to go.

> > >

> > > Right now, I am very unimpressed by ArenaNet's business model and the recent mount scandal only made it worse. I want the developers to tell me upfront what they're selling, for how much and I'll be the judge of whether it's worth my time and money to buy it. That's what an honest deal looks like in my opinion and what they should be striving for. I don't want this mount adoption nonsense where I'm not allowed to choose the one skin I want and instead have to gamble away my gems just for a chance at getting it. To me, that is where I draw the line. Customers have a right to demand transparency. ArenaNet should be able to tell us exactly what we're getting for the money we're putting down the moment we come up to the checkout and ask to see their products.

> > >

> > > So to wrap it all up, here is what I am asking from ArenaNet in point form:

> > >

> > > * Tell your playerbase upfront how many Living World episodes/maps they can expect to come with their purchase of the expansion. You're not just doing us a 'kind service', you're being transparent with us about what we're getting for the money that you're asking from us. Five maps worth of content is not a generous sum compared to other games; in Wrath of the Lich King, there were eight zones worth of content and quests including new dungeons, raids, and 1 new PvP game type. This is what I expect as the industry standard for transparency.

> > > * If you can't deliver new raids, dungeons, or PvP game types with the expansion's release, tell us when we can expect to have them and what the content will be like. If other developers can bundle their new content together for the expansion's release then you should be able to either meet or beat their standard.

> > > * Do better with communication overall. If you're going to promise us new raids with the expansion, tell us something about those new raids so that we're not throwing money blindly at a product that we can't even see. Transparent business practices reassure your customers that you have nothing to hide from them.

> > > * If you can manage all of the above, please take some time to see my above point about where your story is failing. It's not the most important part of the product you're selling, but it's important enough to me that I've been disappointed by the quality of villain characterization, pacing and foreshadowing consistently.

> >

> > I understand where you are coming from. I, however, tend to look at it as $30 for what is included with the expac launch. If what is listed for the launch is worth the price of admission, to me, I buy. In this case I considered the price acceptible and so bought. If PoF had been advertised as launching with less, with the promise of more later, I would not have bought it.

>

> But you did buy Path of Fire, and they did promise to release new Living World episodes and raids later bundled with your purchase. The only difference is that they aren't telling us how much content we can expect, when to expect it, etc. It feels 'free', but it's really not. You're paying for access to Living World episodes, raids, and everything else that requires the expansion so it really is part of the purchase price regardless of how they advertise it.

>

> I'm going to hide the rest of my post in spoiler tags because it comes with a warning. Keep reading if you want to know why I've come to this conclusion, but be prepared for the possibility of becoming disillusioned with the Disneyland fantasy of the game world once you start thinking about how the video game industry works:

>

> >! Just think about the economics of their decision. What is their monetary incentive to release 'free' maps and episodes? The game designers are certainly getting paid to design those maps and the writers are getting paid to write those episodic stories, so where are they getting the money to pay those people? My theory is that Living World is only profitable because their business model is heavily reliant on the gem store and regular 'free' content releases are integral to their success.

> >!

> >! In a conference call from 2015, it was stated that "the contribution of item sales (Gem Store) is Much Stronger than the Box Sales. The Xpac Revenue will weaken further over time." [(Source)](

"(Source)") From that information, my hypothesis is that it is in ArenaNet's best interest (I.e. For their bottom line) to keep players coming back at regular intervals to check the gem store for new sales. That can only happen if they spread their content releases out over time so that every two months, players flock back to play the new content which is coordinated with the promotion of gem store sales and item releases. If my hypothesis is correct, then ArenaNet's business strategy is to intentionally hold back on content releases so that players can't complete the whole story in one go.

> >!

> >! This is why I believe that Living World is just a strategic ploy to keep players from figuring out that their expansion releases are lightweight compared to the industry standard established in other games. They want their players to believe that they got their money's worth with the expansion but their true motivation is to keep them coming back for 'free' content so that they are exposed to the gem store sales and new items. It's a psychological trick that makes people think that ArenaNet is doing them a favor when it's really just part of a cold, hard and calculating strategy to boost gem store sales because they know it's more profitable than box sales of the expansion on its own.

> >!

> >! Of course, there's nothing wrong with that. ArenaNet is a business and they need to stay competitive in the industry. How many people are playing this game because of the fact that there are no subscription fees? I'm perfectly content with their business model because it allows me to play for $30 as long as I control my gem store spending. The thing is, players are catching on to how their business strategy works and it's transparent as glass.

> >!

> >! You know how games like World of Warcraft reward players for playing the game? That's because you're paying a subscription fee and it's in the company's best interest to keep players putting hours of work into the game so that they keep paying subscriptions. Now, what happens when you take subscription fee revenues away? Those profits are going to come from somewhere else, and I'll bet it's the gem store. All that content that other game developers would have bundled with the expansion as gameplay rewards become microtransactions in GW2. Have you ever wondered why it feels like GW2 doesn't have as much to offer by just playing the game? It's probably because the company's profit revolves around item sales and they always save their nicest items for the cash shop.

 

What you're saying here is obvious, but it still changes nothing. I enjoy the game and I know Anet is a business. These things are not mutually exclusive. This is the same in most creative business. I was in publishing. A writer writes a book. When the writer creates that book, he/she is being an artist. The editor is being a technician. The companies that own the publishing house are being a business. The business people worry about the bottom dollar and never really care about the art, except that it sells, but that doesn't devalue a good book. The same can be said for this game.

 

Business decisions are made by the suits. That's true in most big and medium sized businesses. But the Disneyworld fantasy of a programmer sitting there having fun creating something fun, that's all still there. Nothing about why something is the way it is changes that. The suits say we need to do it this way but if you can't see the love put into the maps by people developing them, then you're just not looking. Anet isn't a person, it's a company with close to 400 people some of whom are probably not even working on Guild Wars. Do I believe many of the devs love the game they're developing. Sure I do. And to some devs, it's going to be just a job, because that's the way the world works. But you'd have to be blind to not see that a great deal of vision and care goes into the designs of maps and creatures. Even the way the did mounts....it blew a lot of people away.

 

Nothing you've said changes my opinion about the company. They've always been a business. Because some guy sitting in his garage can't make a triple A MMO all by himself.

[Vayne.8563]

> @Djinn.9245 said:

> > @Athrenn.9468 said:

> > > @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

> > > > @Athrenn.9468 said:

> > > >

> > > > This is why I believe that Living World is just a strategic ploy to keep players from figuring out that their expansion releases are lightweight compared to the industry standard established in other games.

> > >

> > > I deleted the rest of your "spoiler" text in line with your intent to allow people to choose to read it or not.

> > >

> > > I have to question the above assumption, especially in the case of PoF. What PoF lacks is not content, it is rewards to fuel the near-endless repetition some MMO fans expect. When I comparison shop, ANet's business plan is a lot more consumer-friendly than other companies. $30 for PoF compares favorably to the first 2 ESO DLC, which sold for ~$22 and ~$30, respectively. It especially compares favorably to games which charge $40-50 for XPac's, then rent access to players. I know there is going to be disagreement on the latter assertion. I never felt more cheated by a game than when I played the big gorilla of MMO's. Ommv.

> > >

> > > So, for me, the Living World updates are gravy, especially at PoF's price. Maybe that's damning ANet with faint praise, but if that's the case, I'd be damning the whole industry.

> >

> > I haven't played ESO so I can't comment on that, but again, I would question whether people would feel the same way about Path of Fire if the developers told them that there was no 'free' Living World content for Winter 2017/Spring and Summer 2018. What feels like a generous amount of content now will feel dry in comparison 4-6 months down the road. Like gravy, I believe that the promise of regular 'free' updates is the reason why Path of Fire sounds palpable. "It's enough content to tie me over for the next two months until episode 1," people might say. "It doesn't need to be enough to last me all year." Whereas if this was a game where expansions had most of their maps, dungeons, raids, PvP game modes, etc. packed into them on day 1 of the release, a longer draught between releases would be more bearable.

> >

> > I challenge people to consider the thought experiment of how they would feel about Path of Fire as a standalone product if ArenaNet said that Living World was either canceled or gated behind a mandatory paywall for all players. In this scenario, there would be no more free content updates until Expansion 3. Would it still be worth it in your opinion? If not, then I think that Living World is really part of Path of Fire's selling point. You're paying money with the promise of future free updates that are just around the corner.

>

> I've been reading your comments and I honestly don't understand what you're on about. Living World updates are clearly a separate entity from Expansions as they are charged a separate amount in the gemstore if you fail to login while they are active. I personally did not buy PoF thinking that Living World Season 4 had anything to do with it.

 

Except that without PoF you can't even play the LIving World Season 4. It's required for playing, just as HoT was required to play Season 3.

[Verthurnax.2784]

Pof killef gw2 for me. The fact that it does not have meta the maps are boring and not worth the time, also it does not have even wold bosses nor dungeons. The pve aspect because of that looks more like a longer living world story instead of an expansion and this makes me worry for the future expansions.

Also it killed pvp and wvw with the broken and overtuned elite specks, it's a horrible experience to play in those mods.

[Sykper.6583]

Mostly fine with how things are going. Really wish they would follow up on the whole '6 raids a year' deal they anticipated in the interview.

[Erasculio.2914]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> No, LW is part of the expansion. You need to buy PoF to gain access to s4, just as you needed to buy HoT to gain access to s3, even though s2 was part of the original box purchase.

 

I agree.

 

In fact, back when HoT was released, there were massive topics on the old forum complaining about how the expansion was too expensive, and the argument used more often by those defending the price was how HoT came with the next season of the Living World as part of its package. The following season of the Living World has always been used by ArenaNet as a selling point of their GW2 expansions.

[Salonikios.3154]

Wow, only 17% of us actually love this game?

[Martin.4860]

> @Salonikios.3154 said:

> Wow, only 17% of us actually love this game?

 

So in your mind, GW2 only have 580+ players?

[Isanox.3498]

If you asked me that right after PoF launched I would have said "very happy" But between the horrible storyline, poorly balanced balathazar fight, and Mount Skin money grab, I'm very unhappy and barely play anymore. EAnet keeps pandering to the top 5% of the game. Those with every legendary, thousands of gold in the bank, tens of thousands of gems, and just screws the rest of the player base.

[Arioch.6507]

Mostly Happy, Mountgate didn't effect the way I like/dislike "The game". For instance, I am much more put off by the fact I can't join my guild in WvW than I am about Skins that are more of a luxury (to me).

[Ashen.2907]

> @Arioch.6507 said:

> Mostly Happy, Mountgate didn't effect the way I like/dislike "The game". For instance, I am much more put off by the fact I can't join my guild in WvW than I am about Skins that are more of a luxury (to me).

 

This.

[Oglaf.1074]

I'm happy with the game itself, but extremely unhappy, saddened and disappointed in Anet's conduct as of late.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @RoChan.1926 said:

> I am not debating the value of it per say, but I will consistently state that because it's a separate purchase it has its own value outside of the expansion and visa versa. The problem I have with the statement of being included with the expansion is that whenever someone is being critical of an specific expansion, like the current PoF, someone always chimes in with "But LS4!" when it's a own entity with it's own story.

 

But it IS content that you get *for free with the expansion,* so it is part of what you get when you buy the expansion, at least assuming that you buy it before the season starts. Again, it has no value of its own *unless* you miss out on it "on first airing,* just like how a TV show has no value of its own unless you miss the first airing. Now that argument applies far less when you're talking about a year or more down the road when players have already missed chapters.

 

> I've had so many map debates because I explain that it's a separate, stand alone purchase outside of the expansions if you missed it.

 

Maybe just. . . don't have those debates?

 

> @Salonikios.3154 said:

> Wow, only 17% of us actually love this game?

 

I do love the game, but not unconditionally. It can get some work did.

[Vayne.8563]

> @Salonikios.3154 said:

> Wow, only 17% of us actually love this game?

 

Funny how people make this assumption. No, because the question was asked on the heels of something that really got the community riled up and many of the responses reflect just that. If you'd ask this question the day before that, you'd have gotten a different graph because people think with their emotions. You'd have gotten the same response after any of the missteps that Anet made, like the HoT character slot fiasco. People aren't thinking about the game, they're thinking about the company and can't seperate the two. They vote how they vote to punish, because they're angry.

 

If you'd have asked this same question 1 week after POF released you'd have gotten a completely different answer. This poll was posted when it was, in my opinion, to try to prove some kind of point. I won't fall for it, because I know how fickle most people are and how short term their memory is. You piss them off, they get mad, until the next time you make them happy.

 

To me, this poll is essentially meaningless in the long term.