Do you like the concept of kneel?

[Belishine.7493]

i think it should be like the way it works for ranger when you do the lb shot that pushes peps away. i dont mind kneeling for a short time but when it comes to locking you inplace it messes me up hard core most of the time

[Ellisande.5218]

> @Tabootrinket.2631 said:

> @Sobx.1758 Have you tried though ? In fractal situations or the like (and I mean lvl 90+ to 100)? Because that's exactly how I play it. It's plenty long enough for the floor to become deadly lava.

> And sometimes you miss the opportunity to do a well needed last Death Judgement before the malice fades away.

>

> @Ellisande.5218 You stand up to get away from the fields while letting the auto attacks do some chip damage, then kneel immediately when you want to take any meaningful action. Even if it includes auto-attacks. The idea of the Deadeye, from what I've heard from the devs is to commit on your attack or suffer from damage reduction but gaining a way to jump out to safety. It actually makes the class more dynamic than expected by choosing between two stances focused either on escaping or damaging. The only problem is, there's no reward from the 'offensive' stance, since you can't switch whenever you want, and don't get a significant enough damage burst reward from that one shot you've carefully prepared.

 

Except in this game you always have to constantly move out of harm's way so if that was their concept then they are idiots who don't know how their own game plays. All that happens is that the player is constantly pressing 5 to use skills for a second before they have to press 5 to move out of the fire for a second then immediately going back to 5 when they've moved out of the fire for a couple of seconds before pressing 5 to move out of the fire again. It is extremely annoying, tedious and double plus unfun. The damage isn't even good irregardless of whether you are kneeling or standing. I do more damage with other weapons which also aren't as clunky. If you are pvping then you are using 5 for easy stealth as the only other use of kneel would be if no one was attacking you. But if no one is attacking you then you can't really say you are dedicated to offense, rather everyone is ignoring you.

 

And how does that even make the slightest bit of sense when the other elite spec can do damage without having to be locked in one spot and other classes can also do damage without having to be locked in one spot? The Thief gains nothing for being rooted to the ground EXCEPT an unnecessarily clunky unworkable mechanic that is useless BOTH while standing and running as the damage while kneeling is still poor and the damage while standing is so poor as to be equal to not doing any damage.

 

What 5 should have been is simply a way to add range (or AoE or hp drain) to the Rifle skills and nothing else.

[Ellisande.5218]

> @LazerusKI.7485 said:

> I like the concept because i know that it can work. It worked fine in SWtoR for example and it works fine in Games where attacks "root" you in place.

>

> The main problem is that it is just clunky, Line of Sight breaks the core mechanic of marking a target so that its better to swap weapons than to use a crippled rifle, and since literally every single new enemy can throw, pull or knock down it feels especially clunky.

> Against core-enemies the kneeling works just fine, but HoT and PoF enemies are horrible.

> So the problem isnt the kneeling, its the environment.

>

> Also the "theoretical" melee damage at range is just that, theoretical. The numbers need to be adjusted, malice needs a bigger role for other skills other than DJ and of course the rifle needs more piercing abilities to actually hit your mark

 

In SWtoR, the system increases your defense, substantially in some cases. You also don't have GW2's selling point of mobile combat and constant amounts of fire on the ground to run out of all the time. SWtoR also makes use of the holy trinity as well as companions who can tank for you and keep you healed. Having a tank that keeps the boss on them and healers to keep you healed makes the kneeling mechanic much easier to deal with in SWtoR. Not to mention that in SWtoR, every class has AoEs. The two classes which use the kneel mechanic also aren't dependent on the stupid Malice system to deal damage. You can tell that the SWtoR team spent a lot of time figuring out the kneeling system they finally decided upon whereas it is painfully clear that the GW2 did not. Hell the kneel system is fundamentally incompatible with the GW2's combat system as it is completely antithetical to it.

[Tabootrinket.2631]

@Ellisande.5218 The way you describe the use of kneeling is exactly how it's supposed to be used. That's how I play it and I do understand that it may feel annoying and clunky. It's like moving around a turret and having to install it whenever you have to use it (bastion). It's a different kind of gameplay on the direct opposite of the core thief concept.

I personally like it though (it feels like a nice change of pace from the Daredevil), on the condition that the reward is worth the trouble. It is not the case right now.

 

You also pointed out a problem I mentioned earlier : with a weapon like that, we need to be able to kneel whenever we want because that's the only way to be "the most efficient" with it.

 

What I wish kneel had are :

- unlimited kneel : get rid of the stacks and put them in the stealth trait itself

- significantly higher damage

- piercing shot on Death Judgement (or a way for the bullet to not be hindered by random bodyguard mobs)

 

[TreK.3794]

Thanks everyone so far for the great discussion. Hopefully the devs will take notice of our feedback and find it valuable. Keep it up! ;)

[Lyros.4673]

Kneel is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to problem, and it stems from the greater issue of the class as a whole. I won't comment on its value in PVP since I haven't played it much but there are plenty of things that contribute to its other issues that might overlap as well. For the most part this is in regards to PVE.

 

It just doesn't compare to most other weapons in terms of utility and damage. The range bonus on it is also paltry at best, when the Ranger's Longbow has the innate range of a kneel without the immobility and the ability to burst damage with utility abilities without relying on gimmicks to actually do said damage (which is actually one of the more annoying problems of Deadeye Rifle across all modes). Especially since the kneel is so slow that it utterly limits your capacity to do damage.

 

There's really no point to the kneel when the PVE balance design is included in the "melee damage but at range." Why do it when you can just melee instead? That's the ultimate problem with the class. There's no real incentive to use the rifle, let alone to use kneel when other more simple weapons accomplish similar feats more effectively.

 

One of the suggestions I had to combat the initiative drain of the class outside PVP was to make the kneel autoattack give back one initiative. Not only does this promote the use of kneel but it allows you to actually make use of your burst damage and "ramp up" over time. Right now, there's little reason to use autoattack when kneeling because it's just waiting for initiative to stack back up in frustration more than anything else. It adds little to no tactical benefit in its current form. However, making the AA (kneel, to reiterate) would give it an additional tactical element that makes it a more *active* resource management in combat as opposed to passively waiting for everything to come back.

 

 

[Barzah.8019]

Kneel should not consume ammo (only consume to add stealth buff from sniper cover)

 

that is all