Sykper.6583 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > I don't want raids to be easier, but I do want players to be more accepting and agreeable about letting unknown players into raid groups. The only solution every mmo has been able to come up with is lower raid difficulty. Don't you remember? GW2 is a different MMO, it looks for different solutions. Besides, WoW is the only one that has an infantile mode, FF14 has only a Normal Difficulty and then a Hard/Savage difficulty, the Normal difficulty can be considered Story-Mode however Square Enix did a good job of building up the playerbase's knowledge of mechanics in that game, thus it's not braindead easy, you can actually fail Story Mode far more often than in WoW. > > Honestly I think the easiest compromise would be to get rid of the timers on bosses. This would free up people wanting specific builds (unless its a speed clear group). People would eventually get the kill (or not if they are really bad), and it would reduce a lot of new player scrutiny. You mean wipe away the Enrage timers? The only thing keeping people from making builds that can literally ignore mechanics because they can take like three hits of missing Green Circles? Enrage timers are there to ensure that some of the raid is at risk of getting downed by a mechanic that shouldn't be ignored, thus forcing the raid to adapt and actually do something about it. The enrage timers are actually comfortable enough right now to allow for many mistakes during an encounter for the group to recover from if they are skilled enough. > > It's also in the spirit of GW1 elite area's where they have no timers either. Most people had trouble doing them, but there was no gimmicky timer which pigeon holed people into specific builds/specs unless the group was going for fast clears. This allowed people to set there own difficulty and not be overly inclusive in finding group members. Apples and Oranges, but even humoring removing timers for a moment, certain encounters have mechanics that cause a Hard Enrage regardless. Gorseval comes to mind with his limited updrafts, unless you propose **reworking raid bosses as well** instead of just removing a timer. One of my bigger issues with any of the "solutions" people wanting an easier difficulty is that they really don't give a crap about how this might affect work on the next raid wing. And I'm still 100% confused why people can't seem to find the LFG tool, I suppose it's in a weird place, but if you want to make your group all you do is find it under the Contacts icon, and find the 2nd option on the left side. In here is an option for 'Raids', you can create your group in the Looking for More section and put in whatever criteria you want for raiding! Or find like-minded members in the next option below it! Or Join a guild, that works too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Vulf.3098 said: > What is funny is that raid finder wasn't added to wow until 2011. Exactly, and it was added to appease people just like him. Look how that turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > @Vulf.3098 said: > > What is funny is that raid finder wasn't added to wow until 2011. > > Exactly, and it was added to appease people just like him. Look how that turned out. they created auto join in LFG around 2009 with wrath of the lich king - Mr. specificity, but yah you're right raid finder was 2011- so as you can see i never used raid finder so your last post about me not socializing is wrong. So now that i've proven your wrong about your assumption, ill just assume your wrong about everything. Because that's how this works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosmaster.8263 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Sigh... when are you guys going to realize someone just can't handle the diversity of this game and wants to manipulate into something that this game broke away from!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulf.3098 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > they created auto join in LFG around 2009 with wrath of the lich king - Mr. specificity For dungeons at the end of an expansion that 95% of the player base outgeared. Then cata came along and people constantly cried about how hard dungeons were to the point the devs had to massively nerf the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > @Vulf.3098 said: > > > What is funny is that raid finder wasn't added to wow until 2011. > > > > Exactly, and it was added to appease people just like him. Look how that turned out. > > they created auto join in LFG around 2009 with wrath of the lich king - Mr. specificity, but yah you're right raid finder was 2011- so as you can see i never used raid finder so your last post about me not socializing is wrong. > > So now that i've proven your wrong about your assumption, ill just assume your wrong about everything. Because that's how this works. Only in the feeble minded. You do realize the auto LFG still worked that way right? It would fill you in a role, no socialization needed. So either you are lying about when you started playing wow, or you are lying about raiding in wow. I'll let you decide which story you are gonna stick to. I just find all this hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 You guys are advocating that gw2 broke from other mmo's when it comes to raiding by not offering other features or alternatives to raiding and raid grouping. and that the lack of features or options, is what makes gw2 unique and great. Now I've heard it all. That's like saying i play this game over others.. why? because in every game out there u can jump, but in this one you can't so its GREAT. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > @Vulf.3098 said: > > > > What is funny is that raid finder wasn't added to wow until 2011. > > > > > > Exactly, and it was added to appease people just like him. Look how that turned out. > > > > they created auto join in LFG around 2009 with wrath of the lich king - Mr. specificity, but yah you're right raid finder was 2011- so as you can see i never used raid finder so your last post about me not socializing is wrong. > > > > So now that i've proven your wrong about your assumption, ill just assume your wrong about everything. Because that's how this works. > > Only in the feeble minded. You do realize the auto LFG still worked that way right? It would fill you in a role, no socialization needed. > > So either you are lying about when you started playing wow, or you are lying about raiding in wow. I'll let you decide which story you are gonna stick to. I just find all this hilarious. I played wow in 2004 when it launched through Cata and was in NA 7th ranked guild during all of BC, frankly I don't think you've raided at all in any MMO lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykper.6583 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > You guys are advocating that gw2 broke from other mmo's when it comes to raiding by not offering other features or alternatives to raiding and raid grouping. and that the lack of features or options, is what makes gw2 unique and great. Now I've heard it all. > > That's like saying i play this game over others.. why? because in every game out there u can jump, but in this one you can't so its GREAT. lol. More like we expect Arenanet to understand the **mistakes** other MMOs have made. LFR was a mistake, an easier difficulty that you can mindnumb through is a MISTAKE. Raiding isn't for everyone in GW2, nor is farming Silverwastes for gold, nor is being a WvW dedicated player or PvPer, nor is being something in between. Adding automated raid grouping isn't a feature, it is a way to remove the social aspect of building a raid group from the ground up. When LFR was introduced people didn't give a kitten about who they were with, everyone was a nobody. In this game, that's not the case every raid group success or fail has the social aspect of finding people you might be best buddies over, or the worst of enemies that just so happen to play the same game. Within the context of multiservers LFG makes the basic amount of sense in PvE to find other like-minded individuals but from there on it is the social aspect that the player takes and uses to make success happen. Not some automated garbage that you click on daily, running through mindlessly while paying a sub fee for this 'entertainment'. There has still not been a single, actual argument that indicates a sound need for Raids to have an easier mode, nothing that hasn't already been countered by the downsides or opposing arguments against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > @Vulf.3098 said: > > > > > What is funny is that raid finder wasn't added to wow until 2011. > > > > > > > > Exactly, and it was added to appease people just like him. Look how that turned out. > > > > > > they created auto join in LFG around 2009 with wrath of the lich king - Mr. specificity, but yah you're right raid finder was 2011- so as you can see i never used raid finder so your last post about me not socializing is wrong. > > > > > > So now that i've proven your wrong about your assumption, ill just assume your wrong about everything. Because that's how this works. > > > > Only in the feeble minded. You do realize the auto LFG still worked that way right? It would fill you in a role, no socialization needed. > > > > So either you are lying about when you started playing wow, or you are lying about raiding in wow. I'll let you decide which story you are gonna stick to. I just find all this hilarious. > > I played wow in 2004 when it launched through Cata and was in NA 7th ranked guild during all of BC, frankly I don't think you've raided at all in any MMO lol. sigh, with a little poking the attitude that plagues raiding rears its ugly head again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > > @Vulf.3098 said: > > > > > > What is funny is that raid finder wasn't added to wow until 2011. > > > > > > > > > > Exactly, and it was added to appease people just like him. Look how that turned out. > > > > > > > > they created auto join in LFG around 2009 with wrath of the lich king - Mr. specificity, but yah you're right raid finder was 2011- so as you can see i never used raid finder so your last post about me not socializing is wrong. > > > > > > > > So now that i've proven your wrong about your assumption, ill just assume your wrong about everything. Because that's how this works. > > > > > > Only in the feeble minded. You do realize the auto LFG still worked that way right? It would fill you in a role, no socialization needed. > > > > > > So either you are lying about when you started playing wow, or you are lying about raiding in wow. I'll let you decide which story you are gonna stick to. I just find all this hilarious. > > > > I played wow in 2004 when it launched through Cata and was in NA 7th ranked guild during all of BC, frankly I don't think you've raided at all in any MMO lol. > > sigh, with a little poking the attitude that plagues raiding rears its ugly head again. Yah this is what happens though, you state your opinion about it, give good reasoning, they insult you and say, clearly you have no skill therefore the whole post is invalid. You defend yourself by explaining what makes you a qualified and competent person to give such alternative suggestions, and then the nitpicking and insults come, regarding who you are and what you've done, instead of focusing on the topic at hand. This is how most groups go when you try to find a group in LFG, pretty much, from dungeons to fractals to raids and since introducing raids this behavior has spiked in gw2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykper.6583 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Wait you seriously messaged? Not even that but with a 'you mad brah'? Good grief we been trolled folks, 8/8 g8 b8 m8. Like what's even the point of sending that? No purpose, this thread is a joke now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapax.3801 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Blizzard added the LFG and later that of raids because they already knew what kind of players they had and would have in the future, that is why today there are not only four difficulties of raids, but the dungeons also added more difficulties for the most demanding people ... and since 2011 who have been doing this ... Here one more difficulty is asked and people lose their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" Not just you, but I feel that quite a few people in this thread are calling people "elitist" just for liking a game mode with a specific philosophy that they don't like. Elitists as I define it (mostly people only there to brag and be toxic - nothing to do with being good or only wanting exp people in your group) are not plaguing raids. In my experience, this is simply not true. These people exist, just like they exist in PVP, or WVW, or Dungeons, or pretty much everywhere. But it's far from a majority. It's easy to call a community elitist so long as you don't fit in their philosophy, but by no mean does it mean that they're doing anything wrong. I hate pvp because whenever a team lose they start insulting each other, because the whole point of the game is to appear as the best player. I have 2 choices, deal with it, or don't play. Yes, I'm sorry, but in gw2 raids the level of content demands a minimum level of interactions with other players. You don't like that it's fine, you are free to make your own groups, but if that's too much psychological work you can't ask the whole game mode to be changed to adapt your own condition, because it's going to impact others who actually like that game mode. And because again, most of this game already doesn't require social interaction at all, and you gotta please everyone. By the way, a few things you said in this thread would lean towards you being one of these elitist people, stating ranking, calling yourself good player, those are the things that typically raise a red flag for me. Not that it matters, I don't think "good" or "bad" has any relevance in this thread. Elitism has never been about being good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapax.3801 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 The only ones affected if they will add a new difficulty are the sellers of bosses ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Kapax.3801 said: > The only ones affected if they will add a new difficulty are the sellers of bosses ... > I agree, this explains why so many came on here vehemently opposed to what is essential quality of life changes for raids when they themselves admit to being able to clearing all the raids and having no problems themselves with raids. It makes me question why they are so opposed to any changes that would help others who are having trouble. Me thinks they doth protest too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Elitism is good in a way, it is driving progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Greyraven.4258 said: > > @Genesis.5169 said: > > > @Greyraven.4258 said: > > > > @Genesis.5169 said: > > > > > @Greyraven.4258 said: > > > > > It's really a simple solution that arenanet as a company practices in many areas already and that is a zero tolerance for rude and insulting behavior. > > > > > > > > > > So it wouldn't be a matter of fixing elitism, but addressing the rude toxic behavior that comes with it...which is more doable I think. > > > > > > > > Like like doing forces kicks to votes? That would just force already competent commanders to not pug at all leaving you casuals with other casuals or the new with the average or how ever PC way you want me to convey my idea, which puts us back to square one. Reporting people for hurting your feelings should not be a thing i'm sorry if i say scrub or your bad that does not warrant a suspension or a mute or anything its a videogame. > > > > > > > > Maybe give additional loot for helping new players in the raid like ff14 does, Its call FT bonus this way there's some incentive to train the folks who are bad at raiding but outside of that there is no enforcement policy that can control elitism that isn't something out of 1984 or brave new world. > > > > > > Dude.....All I suggested is people making their decisions of who they want to game with without insults, if that is a deal breaker to you maybe you should rethink your life? > > > > Yeah it a deal breaker like the ability to not be censored because of feelings, i'm more of an objective reality kinda guy. Allowing any kinda of salt to compromise gameplay is an automatic no from me, i come from old games like quake ff11 WoW etc, there was no safe space culture either you performed or you didn't and yes sometime you would get trashed but in a competitive setting its supposed to happen. > > So unless you can be a jerk to other people you don't want to play....I actually feel pity for you. Way to misrepresent everything im saying, either or i'm not a fan of nerf content because people get there feelings hurt, and i'm against any kinda of punitive action for said actions either. If you believe i'm a jerk because of that so be it. Man i'm really getting tired of people assuming i'm a jerk for defending the right to criticize people, even if it was just a "dps too low" in a whisper then a prompt kick people would still be mad, no amount of censorship is gonna solve you being kicked out of a raid for fails why do people keep advocating this like it solves problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapax.3801 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Malediktus.9250 said: > Elitism is good in a way, it is driving progress it would be the collateral damage of being elitist, it causes the masses to move in favor of a change. So far I have not read any solid arguments against adding a new difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenGlass.9356 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 So, this boils down to an uncomfortable fact. People like me, and the OP who *feel* the problems of elitism in raiding are confronting an issue, which OP was correct to say is psychological. *We want to be the elitists, and they already have thier click.* So, from our perspective it *feels* like every person they reject is them *"being elitist"*... And we say that like it's a bad thing. They way people use political party names as "insults" when said with enough condescending undertones. But you gotta look at the perspective of "the elitists".... They are good at this content. In the world they play in, they are common. But... so are noobs who are just flat bad. (and no judgements, I have been that noob and had a bad time because of that noob. I'm calling it like it is, not judging.) so after the 15th group that *should* have gone faster if the other 9 people you usually play with were on... It's easy to hate someone for fat fingering the wrong key. (too easy. No judgment.) So this is basically hazing. New people entering an existing group, and being checked to see if they pull thier weight. Psych 101. So, the suggestion of difficulty levels is a good one, because it cuts out the barrier to entry loop of '*you must be good at raids, to find a raid group.*' having a tiered system helps with this circular issue. I don't know about OP's suggestion of forced grouping. But a system for automated LFG could be great, so long as it's optional. I also understand the point of view of people upset by the OP's ideas. If they were put in place if would invalidate the experience of just dealing with the hostile meta, and learning to swim in those waters. So it's *offensive* to people that have already done it. (not saying it's right or wrong, just saying.) All in all though, there are things Anet can do to predict the behavior that's generated by the meta... And make new content that's intended to break those behavior patterns. Other posters have been right to say that it's a people problem. Anet can't fix the people. But they can predict behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyraven.4258 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 I honestly think that Arenanet has all the information they need, they can tell that the raiding mentality goes against everything this game was ever meant to be....it's time to make the hard decision and end it for the betterment of the vast majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Greyraven.4258 said: > I honestly think that Arenanet has all the information they need, they can tell that the raiding mentality goes against everything this game was ever meant to be....it's time to make the hard decision and end it for the betterment of the vast majority. What would that solve now? You would have no raids and less people playing cause you guys were never doing raids to begin with. All your accomplishing and the removal of content out of the game and said player base. Raiders don't go into open world pve or pvp or wvw tell you how to play yet you all feel the need to come to the raiding community and shit on them because they won't allow you in there group? Isn't that elitism? Your the most toxic of them all my friend. One more time the raiding community only affects the raiding community and again your advocating for it's removal even though none of its community spills over to other parts of the game because you can't get into a group and you believe that the way how they think is wrong. You should take a look in a mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > So, this boils down to an uncomfortable fact. > > People like me, and the OP who *feel* the problems of elitism in raiding are confronting an issue, which OP was correct to say is psychological. > > *We want to be the elitists, and they already have thier click.* > > So, from our perspective it *feels* like every person they reject is them *"being elitist"*... And we say that like it's a bad thing. They way people use political party names as "insults" when said with enough condescending undertones. > > But you gotta look at the perspective of "the elitists".... They are good at this content. In the world they play in, they are common. But... so are noobs who are just flat bad. (and no judgements, I have been that noob and had a bad time because of that noob. I'm calling it like it is, not judging.) so after the 15th group that *should* have gone faster if the other 9 people you usually play with were on... It's easy to hate someone for fat fingering the wrong key. (too easy. No judgment.) > > So this is basically hazing. New people entering an existing group, and being checked to see if they pull thier weight. > > Psych 101. > > So, the suggestion of difficulty levels is a good one, because it cuts out the barrier to entry loop of '*you must be good at raids, to find a raid group.*' having a tiered system helps with this circular issue. > > I don't know about OP's suggestion of forced grouping. But a system for automated LFG could be great, so long as it's optional. > > I also understand the point of view of people upset by the OP's ideas. If they were put in place if would invalidate the experience of just dealing with the hostile meta, and learning to swim in those waters. So it's *offensive* to people that have already done it. (not saying it's right or wrong, just saying.) > > > All in all though, there are things Anet can do to predict the behavior that's generated by the meta... And make new content that's intended to break those behavior patterns. > > Other posters have been right to say that it's a people problem. Anet can't fix the people. But they can predict behavior. And the vetting process will still happen with the lower tier. It's called human nature. They will want someone who can pull their own weight and is willing to learn and communicate when things go wrong. So expect there to be training runs and groups who just want those who are experienced in the lower tier and groups who want a very specific group composition, etc, etc. It will not solve the human problem. ANet can't solve it. And every time they've tried to solve it by making general PvE harder, the masses come onto the forum and complain and get the content nerfed. I bet there are posts on Reddit about HoT maps when it first launched and go look at all the threads related to Eater of Souls. And that's the only way to solve the raid problem: figure out how to get the general player base to have a higher average skill level and mechanics knowledge level than they do now. And that's hard when players complain when they try to increase those aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Kapax.3801 said: > The only ones affected if they will add a new difficulty are the sellers of bosses ... > > @Seera.5916 said: > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > So, this boils down to an uncomfortable fact. > > > > People like me, and the OP who *feel* the problems of elitism in raiding are confronting an issue, which OP was correct to say is psychological. > > > > *We want to be the elitists, and they already have thier click.* > > > > So, from our perspective it *feels* like every person they reject is them *"being elitist"*... And we say that like it's a bad thing. They way people use political party names as "insults" when said with enough condescending undertones. > > > > But you gotta look at the perspective of "the elitists".... They are good at this content. In the world they play in, they are common. But... so are noobs who are just flat bad. (and no judgements, I have been that noob and had a bad time because of that noob. I'm calling it like it is, not judging.) so after the 15th group that *should* have gone faster if the other 9 people you usually play with were on... It's easy to hate someone for fat fingering the wrong key. (too easy. No judgment.) > > > > So this is basically hazing. New people entering an existing group, and being checked to see if they pull thier weight. > > > > Psych 101. > > > > So, the suggestion of difficulty levels is a good one, because it cuts out the barrier to entry loop of '*you must be good at raids, to find a raid group.*' having a tiered system helps with this circular issue. > > > > I don't know about OP's suggestion of forced grouping. But a system for automated LFG could be great, so long as it's optional. > > > > I also understand the point of view of people upset by the OP's ideas. If they were put in place if would invalidate the experience of just dealing with the hostile meta, and learning to swim in those waters. So it's *offensive* to people that have already done it. (not saying it's right or wrong, just saying.) > > > > > > All in all though, there are things Anet can do to predict the behavior that's generated by the meta... And make new content that's intended to break those behavior patterns. > > > > Other posters have been right to say that it's a people problem. Anet can't fix the people. But they can predict behavior. > > And the vetting process will still happen with the lower tier. It's called human nature. They will want someone who can pull their own weight and is willing to learn and communicate when things go wrong. So expect there to be training runs and groups who just want those who are experienced in the lower tier and groups who want a very specific group composition, etc, etc. > > It will not solve the human problem. ANet can't solve it. > > And every time they've tried to solve it by making general PvE harder, the masses come onto the forum and complain and get the content nerfed. I bet there are posts on Reddit about HoT maps when it first launched and go look at all the threads related to Eater of Souls. And that's the only way to solve the raid problem: figure out how to get the general player base to have a higher average skill level and mechanics knowledge level than they do now. And that's hard when players complain when they try to increase those aspects. Tell me why is it that no other mmo has this concept of training raids? Could it be that this is some concept the playerbase came up with since there is no compromise or alternative raids? I mean nobody asks you for a training raid to do auric basin meta. Why? Because it's easy. Raids are harder and more gimmicky then auric basin. So Anet should introduce raids that are somewhere inbetween auric basin and raids. This would indeed still result in player scrutiny to some degree, but to a much lesser extent, since as you can see lower difficulty (auric basin) results in no scrutiny or elitism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talindra.4958 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 not sure about fixing elitism but perhaps fixing players own attitude towards the games first might help. I have seen people starting a month ago and never given up and achieved what they need. I don't see any problem for any new raiders to start today if they stop crying and actually start to put effort in it. I pugged my way from start, I have seen people getting kicked, seen people refuse to change, seen people cry about everything but refuse to fit in. so these are the people that they should accept that you either need to fight for it to achieve it or leave it. similar to real life you cant forced urself to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, artist, you need to put effort to train urself to it. and no point crying about it by only try 40 hours training? we wipe over and over and over and over and over before we master how to play in a team .. how to manage mechanics. I also seen people try a few and they couldn't accept that they couldn't do it, they really have to say all the bad stuff about raids. accept that, the fact there are a handful of raiders, and anet will continue to provide reasonable updates for them and similar to fractal, similar to living story. pvp & wvw? anet probably has a long term plan or none due to good reasons. so accept the fact and play or don't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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