ANET please raise classes defensive stats

[BassHunteR.7246]

well something must be done..

 

[jalmari.3906]

Just too much damage.

 

Toughness and vitality work just fine as long as there is no hot/pof classes around.

 

 

 

 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

Let's remove the dodge key. It gives too many classes extra active defenses and people are terrible at using it properly anyway.

[Orpheal.8263]

Stats don't work fine.

The Combat System of GW2 needs finally a proper complete overhaul to adapt it to the changes Anet made ovr the last years to al the KSills, traits , additionso f other combat mechancis, that were never part of the old game balance state of 2012, like new Conditions - Torment, Taunt, Slow and new Boons as well

The addition of Elite Specs is another big point wo which 90% of the whole games cobmat system aren't still adapted and balanced around properly.

 

This game still has an bad Attribute System, which massively favors offensive Stats over Defensive Stats, instead of putting them on equal relevance for the player, where both sides provide eually good synergy.

A a perfect balancec game would an offensive player get perfectly neutralized by a defensive player, if their attack and defense values are exactly the same, so that basicalyl just only player skill decides over it, which side wins.

But this situation will never happen unde anets system, because this gasme has basicalxyl like a felt ratio of 65/35 towards offensive gameplay, whrere playing offensively is much more forgiving, than playing defensively and alot more efficienty, because offense effects in this game way too oftenly ignore either completely all defense (conditions), or are with highend stats dealign so much damage, that you still die in a matter of seconds, regardless of how much defensive power you have and thats the sad truth about this game, because the defensive attributes are too weak and too ineffective to make up for a real difference, when you go rather for a higher defensive build, over an offensive one.. if you go for a defensive one, you wil ldeinetiely lose alot of DPS, but you gain in this game nothign for your increased defensive in Pvp nor WvW.. in Wvw you get steamrolled anyway, because there its just a game of numbers, who has more people on their side in the combat, there plays player skill by far not so much of a big role, than in PvP, where chances asre highwer that you can have duels between just two players long enough ,so that your skill as a player can make up for a difference.

 

GW2 needs Dual Effect Attributes, these will help in balancing offensive and defensive gameplay elements and will help makign both combat styles more equal.

The ganme is lackign since 2012 very important defensive gameplay elements, like an attribute that reduces the chance, how likely you will receive critical hits, or an attribute, that helps with your endurance regeneration, or a simpyl an attribute, that directly influences how much condition damage you can receive, or how long conditons can last on you maximum, or how high the stacks of conditions can go on you maximum.

If there would be a defensive attribute, with that we can reduce the max stack of a condition we casn suffer on from say 25 to like 10 or so, then this would massively help in balancign this game, especially for WvW to cut down some absurd condi bursts back to a sane level.

No class should be able by itself alone to bursts neither conditions, nor boons in a very brief time from 0 to 25

 

The whole boon and condition system needs a complete rework, its massively out of control, since june 23rd of 2015 and Anet has never done until today somethign about this self created mess they did to the game, brief before releasing HoT...

 

The base health system needs a rebalancign finalyl.. the game still uses its 2012er health system, that was desisnged around a game state, where no E-Specs, no certain conditions like Torment, Slow and Taunt existed, where no massive DPS powercreep existed.. at that state was the base health system fine.

But by now, it would be best for GW2, if anet finalyl kicks this old health system out of the window and begins finalyl to individually balance the Health Values for each Base Class and revalues their health numbers properly to the current state of game balance.

No class should have in this game anymore a low base health of lousy 11000 HP - such a low base health for this game now is a ridiculous JOKE!! where basicalyl everyones critical fart could halfway defeat you by now ... if you play such a risky build

 

and the game must get rid of gear stats... Any stats you receive for your character should come by just natural character progression from leveling your character up, not from gear. Gear should provide only the class relevant Base Defense Valus that are added on top of the stat defense values that are part of your build, Fashion and slots for your build diversity through Upgrades, which shoudl also all not provide any stats, just effects only that would make then also upgrades more interesting, if thy would provide only effects, and not like now, where half of their slots are wasted with lousy boring stat boosts, instesad of more interstign and build creating effects.

 

If these thigns could get done only on day, then this game woudl be a huge step further to become more balanced, because then its combat system elements would be again morte in harmony with each other, online now, where anet wants to keep 2012er balance state and mechanics into a 2017er game, where skills, traits and classes by far ar all not anymore, what they were 5 years ago, when these old systems were designed for the game.

[MUDse.7623]

> @Orpheal.8263 said:

> Stats don't work fine.

> The Combat System of GW2 needs finally a proper complete overhaul to adapt it to the changes Anet made ovr the last years to al the KSills, traits , additionso f other combat mechancis, that were never part of the old game balance state of 2012, like new Conditions - Torment, Taunt, Slow and new Boons as well

> The addition of Elite Specs is another big point wo which 90% of the whole games cobmat system aren't still adapted and balanced around properly.

>

> This game still has an bad Attribute System, which massively favors offensive Stats over Defensive Stats, instead of putting them on equal relevance for the player, where both sides provide eually good synergy.

> A a perfect balancec game would an offensive player get perfectly neutralized by a defensive player, if their attack and defense values are exactly the same, so that basicalyl just only player skill decides over it, which side wins.

> But this situation will never happen unde anets system, because this gasme has basicalxyl like a felt ratio of 65/35 towards offensive gameplay, whrere playing offensively is much more forgiving, than playing defensively and alot more efficienty, because offense effects in this game way too oftenly ignore either completely all defense (conditions), or are with highend stats dealign so much damage, that you still die in a matter of seconds, regardless of how much defensive power you have and thats the sad truth about this game, because the defensive attributes are too weak and too ineffective to make up for a real difference, when you go rather for a higher defensive build, over an offensive one.. if you go for a defensive one, you wil ldeinetiely lose alot of DPS, but you gain in this game nothign for your increased defensive in Pvp nor WvW.. in Wvw you get steamrolled anyway, because there its just a game of numbers, who has more people on their side in the combat, there plays player skill by far not so much of a big role, than in PvP, where chances asre highwer that you can have duels between just two players long enough ,so that your skill as a player can make up for a difference.

 

i didnt read the rest cause too tired, maybe tomorrow. yes offensive stats are more powerful than defensive ones, but i think the defensive buffs and effects are stronger(just check how many damage reductions you can stack). this way you can use offensive stats while buffing your little defense with strong buffs will result in alot better outcome than having no offence and slightly more defense.

 

> @Orpheal.8263 said:

> and the game must get rid of gear stats... Any stats you receive for your character should come by just natural character progression from leveling your character up, not from gear. Gear should provide only the class relevant Base Defense Valus that are added on top of the stat defense values that are part of your build, Fashion and slots for your build diversity through Upgrades, which shoudl also all not provide any stats, just effects only that would make then also upgrades more interesting, if thy would provide only effects, and not like now, where half of their slots are wasted with lousy boring stat boosts, instesad of more interstign and build creating effects.

 

then every player of the same class would have the same stats and therefore are forced to play one only way- or i didnt understand how you thing stats shall be granted. more effects on gear so more gimmicks i am not sure that is a good way to go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @BassHunteR.7246 said:

> Lower dps would be good to. But looking at anets side, it is harsh to remove a benefit you already gave ppl. Would look like they considered it a mistake. We may consider it a mistake, but it is hard for a company to come out and announce they did a mistake and therefore they will revert it.

> Part of the community could start saying they bought the xpack because of those boosts and then a bigger issue would rise up.

> That is why i think it is easier to just boost defensive stats.

>

> NOTE: i NEVER said to give us immunities. We dont need that. All we need is some sort of defensive stat increase. Vitality, toughness, cond resist and those woyld be more then enough

 

If they did that, admitting a mistake and reverting it, i think it would have the opposite reaction to what you're saying.

People are sick of gaming companies compounding mistakes on top of mistakes because they are unwilling to admit a mistake and revert it. And Arena Net isn't exempt from this behaviour (most stuff related to HoT is still a mess), and it would definitely earn them praise if they owned up to their mistakes.

 

On topic, yeah, i believe one thing that warrants doing is a rebalancing and standardizing the health pools.

The way they work made sense in the beginning with Guardian having a lot of survivability thus meriting the lowest health pool. But now? With all the new support specs coming out, that makes less sense. Why would a Dragonhunter merit less HP than a Chrono, a Scourge, a Druid or a Tempest?

 

Also, they added Expertise but nothing to balance that out (as in a stat that lowers condi duration on you). With the enormous amounts of condis being applied, lower health pool classes like thief and guardian simply don't have enough condi cleanse to face that.

 

In PvP and WvW the most immediate and easiest thing to do would be to limit the size of condi stacks so that condi damage doesn't spike too much, which it does.

For example, scourge's problem, isn't the class itself, it's just that it can output a ton of conditions and easily punish you for trying to counter those with boons, without any counter-play other than not engaging him. Add that to the ability to have some of that work remotely via the shades, and its regarded as broken.

But what's broken is the condi damage in general in PvP situations.

[sweetrules.8359]

Honestly, the only buff I think they should make is to increase every class's base health to match warrior's. They have the highest base health pool by a mile, and it allows them the most lee-way with builds. I'm curious just how different things would be if all classes had equal or at least less uneven health pools. Because that is one of the main balancing issues in pvp and wvw. Warrior is constantly a problem because of their survivability in any setting. They just have better survivability than every other class that can't go bunker build. And bunker build shouldn't be the Only solution to having a survivable option in those game modes.

[MUDse.7623]

> @ReaverKane.7598 said:

> Also, they added Expertise but nothing to balance that out (as in a stat that lowers condi duration on you). With the enormous amounts of condis being applied, lower health pool classes like thief and guardian simply don't have enough condi cleanse to face that.

 

+condi duration was a stat ingame from the begin but it was not on gear. i think first time we got this on gear was giver weapons. expertise was just a stat to balance it depending on what item you put it, as it is easier to balance expertise than % condi duration with so many different stat values on items.

the problem is not the amount of conditions that can be applied(if it took longer to apply them) but the amount of defensive stats you can have with minimal damageloss as well as the low ramp up time. we do have mostly short fights in pvp encounters atm and in short fights power damage allways has to be superior but its not. while in loger fights conditon damage has to be stronger.

 

 

[intox.6347]

> @Kapax.3801 said:

> The damage in WvW is so unbalanced that if you attack a group of Zerg you can kill yourself with all the reflected damage they have. It is not even necessary to attack you, you just killed yourself :s :s (without also mentioning the conditions that put you to attack them)

 

That can happen only full zerk ele .... in old times of icebow on zerk ele... u can die fast on this.... but now ? :D What are you playing ? :D

[Orpheal.8263]

@ Mud:

 

Nop,e not everyone iwll be the same, because if the Character progression of Characters come from your natural progression of just playing your character and leveling up, the individualism that is needed to make build diversity comes from the ability to freely distribute your attribute points then how you like.

That system was in use in GW1 and it worked perfectly fine.

 

there you leveld your charascter up, gained attribute points for your character that you then could freely put into the Attribute Lines, which are here now Status Parameters, while what were Attributes in GW1 are here now this time Traitlines basically.

Just imagine you reach level 50 as a new lowered Max Level for the Main Game, and by the moment you reach this level, your Maximum Amountof distributable Attribute Points would be for this example lets say 10000 Points, what would mean, you'd receive with Every level Up (Start Level = 0 and not anymore 1) 200 Attribute Points.

 

200 Points, which you as a player could then freely distribute among all possible Status Parameters, as you like. the way how you spend then your points will be for each player individually.

Sury, many peopel surely will think of such a system, its too easy to screw your "build", if you give the player too much freedom to customize the status parameters as your character grows stronger all manually. But for that would exist the option to reset your build to start anytime you want out of combat then, so that you can freely redistribute tzhen all your Attribute Points onto your Status parameters again to change your "stat build".

Its a classic and traditional rpg mechanism of character progression, which simply works and is much easier to handle, while giving the player alot more freedom to define your character build in a more detailed way, than what is possible with pregiven stat increases onto which you receive zero influence on, by how and which stat should get increased by how many points the moment you level up. It leaves for the player no room for stat specialization and focusing on certain things, that you want to specificly focus on for your build - for what we currently need this limitated stat gear system, which is there only to be an arteficial money sink, but for the gameplay itself its absolutely in no way helpful, that it exists and it decreases in fact true detailed build diversity massively.

 

One player coudl spend these 200 points completely differently on the status paramenters, then an other player. it lies all about, what you personalyl priorize for your character and your build you want to play, without being artificially bonded to your equipment, when equipment in fact in this game should be nothign more, than just only fashion, base defense values and build diversity through upgrades, but not through stats. Stats belong to Character Progression, not to Equipment

Ehe equipment is just a tool in the hands of your character with that you as a character act and do something, but it is not your character itself or any form of its progression. (ihope this makes somehow kind of sense in English in the way what I want to express with this LOL)

 

[Kirin.7306]

lower damage

remove all stats

bingo! gw1 style. would be very easy to balance then.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @BassHunteR.7246 said:

> Lower dps would be good to. But looking at anets side, it is harsh to remove a benefit you already gave ppl. Would look like they considered it a mistake. We may consider it a mistake, but it is hard for a company to come out and announce they did a mistake and therefore they will revert it.

> Part of the community could start saying they bought the xpack because of those boosts and then a bigger issue would rise up.

> That is why i think it is easier to just boost defensive stats.

>

> NOTE: i NEVER said to give us immunities. We dont need that. All we need is some sort of defensive stat increase. Vitality, toughness, cond resist and those woyld be more then enough

 

> @Kirin.7306 said:

> lower damage

> remove all stats

> bingo! gw1 style. would be very easy to balance then.

 

They should really remove base stats.

It will probably fix many of the problems.

[Dadnir.5038]

Anet want a PvP game where all option leave room to kill each other. In this grand scheme, defensive stat, albeit not strong, are something that the PvP dev team find unsightly. That's why offensive stats are so dominant.

 

Just look at what happen when a spec start to have a bit of survivability: It's labelled as bunker and is nerfed asap. Chronomancer? Nerfed. Minionmancer? Nerfed. Spellbreaker? nerfed. Ventari revenant? Nerfed... etc. Every single time players have a hard time killing a specific build, you can be sure that it will be nerfed soon. Anet find that defensive build (and thus defensive stat) hurt the dynamic of the gameplay. They want players to kill fast and die fast so that the most skilled one (in using it's active defense) can be the top dog that reap the reward.

 

So why in this context shall they improve defensive stat? There is no way they would do it.

 

NB.: I'm not saying that I support anet's choice and that I don't understand why the OP want an improvement in defensive stats, however, let's be realist, there is tons of players in spvp that wouldn't be happy to see such thing happen.

[Orpheal.8263]

Because its also player skill to recognize, how your defensive oponnent works and how you have in combat to react upon a defensive build to crack it like an exposed nut...

There is no fun in combat, when everything in this game's combat system is designed around boring 1 to 3 second wins because of way too overpowered burst capabilities of the classes... where both sides of a combat are just waiting only on the moment, where one side makes a fatal mistake, so that the other can safely land their deadly bursts that bring your enemy if you are lucky basically nearly from full health to basicalyl near downed state or from half health to instantly downed state.. and that currently with out being even actively involved in the combat even at lal, because condi spam does just braindeadly all the work for yu, while you have to avoid fighting only and make sure, that condis dont run out ... as you can spam them much faster, than your enemy can cleanse them.

 

However, that the game is so heaviliy unbalanced like it is, is not only the faault currently because of the combat system favouring offensively mechanics over defensive ones.

Its maynly because of outdate combat elements that were dsigned and balanced around the games state of 2012, which are still in an complete unadapted and unrebalanced way still inm usage with this game, after Anet has changed on Skills , Traits, Conditions, Boons, Upgrades (not so much, but there was one bigger change on them) and added by now two sets of new E-Specs plus 1 new Class with the Rev, that weren't part of the original games state of combat system balance.. and all the changes that anet did on skilsl and traits, didn#t fiix until today this huge root problem with the games balance.

 

Health System, Attribute System, Conditions and Boons, Upgrades - they all need to get finalyl adapted and rebalanced around the fact, that we have now the Rev, that we have now 18 Elite Specs in the game that influence alot in regard of class balance with their new skills, their new traits, their new gameplay mechanics that they chance in regard of their base classes, the new boons and conditons that have been added and the catastrophal condition patch of june 23rd of 2015 that changed everythign in regard of class balance for the competitive play of GW2 to the worst and that hasnt been fixed until today..

 

Just raising there the defensive only in the game is no solution.

Fixing the Combat System as a whole is the solution and for that to happen, must Anet begin first tzo finally stop ignoring the 90% of the combat system for tzhat anet basicalyl nearly never has done ANYTHING in the last 5 years, because they were permanently only focused on their many but tiny changes on the skills and traits mainly, while doing nothign for everything else basically.

[Yannir.4132]

Tbh, I wouldn't be opposed to every class getting a flat 3-5k(same number for all) more health. But no more Toughness/defense!