Nerf the mesmer already, the relentless clone spam is extremely overpowered.

[allias.1420]

> @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> TIME & TIME AGAIN, Mesmer mains have been in an outroar that ELUSIVE MIND isn't the problem, MIRAGE CLOAK is. Being physically (not conditionally) invulnerable for a ridiculous amount of time is simply DUMB.

>

> EASY FIX: REMOVE Rune of Adventure and Sigil of Energy ASAP! No one likes perma dodge Daredevil or Mirage, there is absolutely fun in dodge spam Arenanet remove those two items and play despacito.

>

> edit: while I'm at it lower axe 3 dodge by half, it's just too much on an 8 second cd lol

 

I'm not opposed to this idea, to be honest. I think there is an underlying problem here that extends beyond just the mesmer class itself. Mirage, as a concept, is a class that is contentiously centred around dodging due to its mechanic. Having access to tools that boost the ability to dodge such as sigil of energy and rune of adventure just makes the class a bit harder to deal with and of course, more forgiving to play. But this isn't just the case for mirage, it also has a great impact on classes that revolve around dealing damage while negating it simultaneously, for example the dreaded boonbeast, core warrior and/or Daredevil. Imo, having access to tools that promote a high evasion uptime is unhealthy for the pvp scene in general. Replace sigil of energy with some other defensive mechanic such as 'upon weapon swap, become immune to critical hits for 2 seconds' or something, just a suggestion.

[Crow.2851]

In my opinion, reducing the active frames of Mirage Cloak would fix a lot of the problems folks have presented. I don't know if GW2 runs at 60 FPS, but with the Wiki saying standard Dodge Rolls are .75 seconds (45 frames) and Mirage Cloak is 1 second (60 frames) it's just straight better. Tie in the ability to dodge during skills/stomps/CC... and it's not hard to understand people's frustration, especially with all the other evasion Mesmer gets. If the invulnerability was less active it would be easier to punish, and the cool Mirage concept wouldn't break the other mechanics of GW2 that benefit dodging like food and vigor.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Crow.2851" said:

> In my opinion, reducing the active frames of Mirage Cloak would fix a lot of the problems folks have presented. I don't know if GW2 runs at 60 FPS, but with the Wiki saying standard Dodge Rolls are .75 seconds (45 frames) and Mirage Cloak is 1 second (60 frames) it's just straight better. Tie in the ability to dodge during skills/stomps/CC... and it's not hard to understand people's frustration, especially with all the other evasion Mesmer gets. If the invulnerability was less active it would be easier to punish, and the cool Mirage concept wouldn't break the other mechanics of GW2 that benefit dodging like food and vigor.

 

So in beta it was 0.75s mirage cloak the same as dodge and you know what happened? Almost no-one could use their ambush skills. This is why it was increased to 1s because aftercasts are a real problem for any class that doesn't end with a ief and begin with a th.

 

I would really recommend trying power mirage after the most recent nerfs to vigor up time, if you fight any other 1v1 like soulbeast, holo or spellbreaker you'll see them dodging around like monkeys while you have to time yours carefully and hope that you get to use one of those ambush skills on the weapon. Sure condi mirage is still somewhat functional but given that certain people are hilariously biased against mesmers, some well known streamers who have 1 on 1 talks with devs, and it's not hard to see that soon mesmer will be back to a horrible class to play that requires almost no thought to beat but require far more effort to play for no reward.

[Ansau.7326]

This is mesmer subforum, not the right place to necropost.

[Crow.2851]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

>

> So in beta it was 0.75s mirage cloak the same as dodge and you know what happened? Almost no-one could use their ambush skills. This is why it was increased to 1s because aftercasts are a real problem for any class that doesn't end with a ief and begin with a th.

>

> I would really recommend trying power mirage after the most recent nerfs to vigor up time, if you fight any other 1v1 like soulbeast, holo or spellbreaker you'll see them dodging around like monkeys while you have to time yours carefully and hope that you get to use one of those ambush skills on the weapon. Sure condi mirage is still somewhat functional but given that certain people are hilariously biased against mesmers, some well known streamers who have 1 on 1 talks with devs, and it's not hard to see that soon mesmer will be back to a horrible class to play that requires almost no thought to beat but require far more effort to play for no reward.

 

Hm, that is interesting insight. I thought that the ambush attack window was increased to 1.5 seconds to accommodate that issue, and with my recommendation to lower active frames on Mirage Cloak I'd maintain that window. Do you think that increasing the window for ambush access would make it easier to nerf/balance Mirage Cloak in general? So that the invulnerability isn't so attached to ambushes? I kinda wish Mirage could gain ambush skills while in stealth but that's probably a pipe dream.

 

If only I wasn't sooo bad at power builds haha. I will give it a shot though, it would help my perspective on Mesmer in the metagame. Soulbeast/Holo/Spellbreaker are hard 1v1s, but I find that mostly to be the case because I don't have any boon rip to remove resistance. It was easier when I ran Arcane Thievery, but I always find myself with more than enough evasion to outlive them. That's pretty doom and gloom, but I haven't been active in the competitive scene long enough to know how impacting those "1 on 1 talks" are in the grand scheme of things. I'm hopeful that Mesmer will remain viable, even if Mirage sees a large redesign.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Crow.2851" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> >

> > So in beta it was 0.75s mirage cloak the same as dodge and you know what happened? Almost no-one could use their ambush skills. This is why it was increased to 1s because aftercasts are a real problem for any class that doesn't end with a ief and begin with a th.

> >

> > I would really recommend trying power mirage after the most recent nerfs to vigor up time, if you fight any other 1v1 like soulbeast, holo or spellbreaker you'll see them dodging around like monkeys while you have to time yours carefully and hope that you get to use one of those ambush skills on the weapon. Sure condi mirage is still somewhat functional but given that certain people are hilariously biased against mesmers, some well known streamers who have 1 on 1 talks with devs, and it's not hard to see that soon mesmer will be back to a horrible class to play that requires almost no thought to beat but require far more effort to play for no reward.

>

> Hm, that is interesting insight. I thought that the ambush attack window was increased to 1.5 seconds to accommodate that issue, and with my recommendation to lower active frames on Mirage Cloak I'd maintain that window. Do you think that increasing the window for ambush access would make it easier to nerf/balance Mirage Cloak in general? So that the invulnerability isn't so attached to ambushes? I kinda wish Mirage could gain ambush skills while in stealth but that's probably a pipe dream.

>

> If only I wasn't sooo bad at power builds haha. I will give it a shot though, it would help my perspective on Mesmer in the metagame. Soulbeast/Holo/Spellbreaker are hard 1v1s, but I find that mostly to be the case because I don't have any boon rip to remove resistance. It was easier when I ran Arcane Thievery, but I always find myself with more than enough evasion to outlive them. That's pretty doom and gloom, but I haven't been active in the competitive scene long enough to know how impacting those "1 on 1 talks" are in the grand scheme of things. I'm hopeful that Mesmer will remain viable, even if Mirage sees a large redesign.

 

Dodge/mirage cloak is not invulnerability and you should be very very particular on that. Magebane tether, spear of justice, tainted shackles, guardian lines and a few other things like aura's and on hit effects will completely ignore evade. You also still take condition damage.

 

Shorting the evade frame but keeping the ambush will make it feel a bit disjointed and the class mechanic is literally being able to cast while evading, the problem is as I say there's casts/aftercasts that need to be taken into account. The reality is that most ambush skills are interruptable right at the end because of how the evade window and ambush lines up.

 

1 on 1 chats aren't bad per say, the problem is that they need to be with people who understand the class and hopefully other classes. They also have to take into account the bias of that person. For example Blackjack loves guardian and is fairly biased to it, Chaith to engineer, Helseth was to mesmer before he left etc. A lot of the streamers left also don't fully understand when something is strong because it fills a niche very well in a meta and something that is strong in multiple situations. A good example is S/D thief, yes it was a bit too strong and needed toning down but it needed to keep it's anti bunker aspect of unblockable, the reduction in passive defence and double steal was warranted, the damage reduction to larcenous strike not so imo as it is used for it's anti block spam from FB.

 

Then they come up with suggestions that are at best ill thought out and at worst flat out wrong.

 

Also yes power mirage isn't that fun to use against a holo or ranger, your best bet is to +1 and then leave, I think thief, holo and rev are much better for it though as they have the power damage to flatten someone in 1s and if not sustained damage to keep pressure up to kill. Mesmer has F1 which if they don't hit they don't have much useful follow up. The nerfs to vigor up time really hurt power mes more than condi.

[Amaranthe.3578]

> @"Zex Anthon.8673" said:

> The problem isn't the number of dodges its mirage cloak. The ability to evade while casting spells, after being stunned (even without EM), or even immobilized is overpowered. There isn't any counter play to that, you can't interrupt any crucial spells. Add onto that the amount of screen clutter and target break mesmer is capable of as well as distortion and it becomes too much. Not to mention the amount of mirage cloak you can poop out with mirrors.

 

Mirrors? Most people run 1 mirror in their build

The problem here is that you understand so little about your mirage opponents that it all seems like a spam to you.

The fact that you dont think there is counterplay to Miragea just shows how bad you are.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

*OP gets mad for getting beat by mesmers*

*OP goes to the enemy's class forums demanding nerfs*

*OP believes this is the best part of the forum to make exaggerated demands about said class*

*OP hasn't realized yet this isnt the place for it and hasnt claimed they may be to blame as its easier to do ti this way*

*OP gets owned again*

 

Jokes aside, The only issue imo (as a non meta DPS mirage main) is the mobility of sword and the condi mirage. Learn to fight them. Learn to counter them. Learn their tells. If you are NA, ill spar with ya as I love dueling.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> *OP gets mad for getting beat by mesmers*

> *OP goes to the enemy's class forums demanding nerfs*

> *OP believes this is the best part of the forum to make exaggerated demands about said class*

> *OP hasn't realized yet this isnt the place for it and hasnt claimed they may be to blame as its easier to do ti this way*

> *OP gets owned again*

>

> Jokes aside, The only issue imo (as a non meta DPS mirage main) is the mobility of sword and the condi mirage. Learn to fight them. Learn to counter them. Learn their tells. If you are NA, ill spar with ya as I love dueling.

 

This was actually a necro post from pvp sub forum and the mods moved it here.