katz.8376 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 NGE was the most infamous fail in gaming history. SWG was super popular... had 3 expansions in only 2 years... people loved it! the 3rd expansion, however, completely changed the game. people left in DROVES. so many people were demanding refunds for the expack that Sony actually started issuing those refunds only about 2 weeks later.... took SIX more years for them to admit defeat and close the game down https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies popular game, people played it because they liked the structure that that particular game had. then an expansion comes along and changes the game to an entirely different kind of game. the whole tone of the playstyle changes. the whole tone of the GAME changes. a select few like the changes, but a large number don't... they liked the game the old way. they leave in droves, taking their money with them. game continues to limp along for several more years, until......? gee. sounds familiar. the question is, can this trainwreck be turned around in time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > Sure, Player versus Environment. Whoop-dee-doo. My point still stands, the objectives are controlled by NPCs. You will not win WvW by killing enemy players alone. WvW is more about objective control than anything else as that's where the main source of points come from. The same for SPvP: the main source of points is the cap locations you need to control (and sometimes additional mechanics like Lord, svanir/chieftain, orb). And while it's true you will not win WvW match by killing enemy players alone, neither can you win _without_ killing enemy players. Notice, that it's the same as in SPvP (with the difference that winning SPvP match without killing any enemies by simply outrotating them _is_ actually possible at low skill tiers) > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > The four main objectives, camps, towers, keeps, and a castle are all controlled by NPCs. These objectives (I'm saying this for the umpteenth time) **can** be defended by other players. Hence why WvW is **officially** classified as a PvP/PvE gamemode. As I've already said before, it doesn't matter that players are competing against each other... those players are competing against each other by killing each other **and** NPCs. And on SPvP Conquest modes they compete against each other by controlling a territory and utilizing additional environmental effects (and/or killing NPCs). Which **can** be defended by opposing players (or those opposing players can lose the match by trying to engage in PvP while forgetting about the real goals). Cap points on SPvP matches are as much an Environment element as NPCs and structures in WvW. Also, in Stronghold mode, you specifically win by killing enemy Lord - an NPC. Defended by other NPCs, and by utilizing your own NPCs. It's still SPvP, not WvW or PvE or something else entirely. The only difference lies in scale. > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Sure. Point me one business in which you see a market failure and you continue doing it. Do i need to mention SW:Galaxies and how long did it take for the devs to actually admit they made a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 This is the basic premise of the thread... “Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” - Mike O’Brien Sooooo.... Some players find their “fun from moment to moment” in various ways or modes. Once you carrot on stick, “for a future fun reward”, in specific modes a player doesn’t like, the feeling becomes that of a “grind”, that isn’t really fun for them. The devs want players to log in and enjoy themselves as much as possible, not feel negative about their gameplay experience. Unhappy players will spend less cash on this game, and that’s the way it goes... Funny how HoT rewards were improved so the devs could “value the players time”, and that’s exactly what I’m bringing up here... This is about offering the full list of legendary weapons, armor, back items and trinkets... as earnable rewards offered in EVERY mode, so any player can log in and play what they want, and have fun doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > This is the basic premise of the thread... > > “Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” - Mike O’Brien > > Sooooo.... Some players find their “fun from moment to moment” in various ways or modes. Once you carrot on stick, “for a future fun reward”, in specific modes a player doesn’t like, the feeling becomes that of a “grind”, that isn’t really fun for them. The devs want players to log in and enjoy themselves as much as possible, not feel negative about their gameplay experience. Unhappy players will spend less cash on this game, and that’s the way it goes... > > Funny how HoT rewards were improved so the devs could “value the players time”, and that’s exactly what I’m bringing up here... This is about offering the full list of legendary weapons, armor, back items and trinkets... as earnable rewards offered in EVERY mode, so any player can log in and play what they want, and have fun doing it. Let's be honest here: MMORPGs are all about grind. That's basically what keeps them going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > I'm at the point where I'm convinced that this is not a matter of 'good vs. bad idea', it's simply a business decision on what they don't do to divert resources to implement it ... which clearly up to this point is 'it's not important enough to replace anything they are doing". > > > > > > You also believe that the loss of players is a viable cost to keep things the way they are, so, no doubt you would take this stand no matter what price Anet or GW2 pays for it. > > > > > > That aside,. Anet has already said this is the way things will be, while I think it is a bad business move to lock something like the ONLY PvE Legendary Armor behind an Expansion.. it's not my call to make.. it's a bold move.. lets see if it pays off. > > > > Um, no, that's your interpretation, no doubt taking a page from your other 'friends' book on that one. > > > > It really looks likes like you said that.. I mean.. have you forgotten this so soon? > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Why should Anet provide other paths to Legendary Armor, well, customer retention would be a good reason, to keep with their founding philosophy would be another.. but they don't need to do either of those things. They can take the loss in both players and faith. > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > So be it ... Anet can't make the game everything for everyone. I see no problem with that. It's reasonable and practical. > > See right here, you said squarely when faced with the loss of players.. "so be it".. > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > Players are going to leave for lots of reasons and trying to claw them back with all the whatevers needed that will keep them is just NOT a viable business strategy. Again, there is a need to have a small amount of business acumen to understand what is happening here and I don't get why people don't understand it ... I can only hope that most people here have actually worked somewhere in their lives ... you see it every day at your workplaces ... this ISN'T some phenomenon limited to Anet or MMO developers. Arguing like the ROI on these decisions is just positive with zero impact on the rest of the business is naive. > > I think the confusion lies in why cater to >5% of the players who often don't spend a lot of money to start with, when you have limited resources. > > I mean, if a company has a limited amount of resources and time, if would be better served to reach out to their largest demographics to make the most money, That's just common sense. > > But.. again.. it is what it is. > > Lets see how it pans out. Worst case is that it becomes a cautionary tale, which I am sure myself and others would be glad to re-tell in every other game we play. I'm not contradicting myself here, so I don't know what the misunderstanding is. /shrug Honestly, I think it's as simple as I already stated before; it's not about what players are willing to do, it's about what Anet decides needs to be done. Having played many MMO's, I don't see Anet acting uniquely in this regard either. Anyways, it appears that the most disruptive person of this thread has found himself a little vacation, so it seems to me that reasonable discussion can resume if people wish it. Personally, I would find it very difficult to think that implementing Leg. Armor in WvW would be a good idea for two reasons: 1. It would change the focus for WvW on some players; indeed you would find people joining WvW that are simply there to get armor and not participate in ways that 'real' WvW play. Their is also a limit to how many people can be in a map. Imagine not being able to get into a map and having the feeling that some fraction of those people could care less about winning ... it would frustrate me to no end. 2. It would be a little bit of a stretch to associate this armor with a WvW 'story'. Seems a little weak but there is this element that Anet has to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > I'm at the point where I'm convinced that this is not a matter of 'good vs. bad idea', it's simply a business decision on what they don't do to divert resources to implement it ... which clearly up to this point is 'it's not important enough to replace anything they are doing". > > > > > > > > You also believe that the loss of players is a viable cost to keep things the way they are, so, no doubt you would take this stand no matter what price Anet or GW2 pays for it. > > > > > > > > That aside,. Anet has already said this is the way things will be, while I think it is a bad business move to lock something like the ONLY PvE Legendary Armor behind an Expansion.. it's not my call to make.. it's a bold move.. lets see if it pays off. > > > > > > Um, no, that's your interpretation, no doubt taking a page from your other 'friends' book on that one. > > > > > > > It really looks likes like you said that.. I mean.. have you forgotten this so soon? > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Why should Anet provide other paths to Legendary Armor, well, customer retention would be a good reason, to keep with their founding philosophy would be another.. but they don't need to do either of those things. They can take the loss in both players and faith. > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > So be it ... Anet can't make the game everything for everyone. I see no problem with that. It's reasonable and practical. > > > > See right here, you said squarely when faced with the loss of players.. "so be it".. > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > Players are going to leave for lots of reasons and trying to claw them back with all the whatevers needed that will keep them is just NOT a viable business strategy. Again, there is a need to have a small amount of business acumen to understand what is happening here and I don't get why people don't understand it ... I can only hope that most people here have actually worked somewhere in their lives ... you see it every day at your workplaces ... this ISN'T some phenomenon limited to Anet or MMO developers. Arguing like the ROI on these decisions is just positive with zero impact on the rest of the business is naive. > > > > I think the confusion lies in why cater to >5% of the players who often don't spend a lot of money to start with, when you have limited resources. > > > > I mean, if a company has a limited amount of resources and time, if would be better served to reach out to their largest demographics to make the most money, That's just common sense. > > > > But.. again.. it is what it is. > > > > Lets see how it pans out. Worst case is that it becomes a cautionary tale, which I am sure myself and others would be glad to re-tell in every other game we play. > > I'm not contradicting myself here, so I don't know what the misunderstanding is. /shrug > > Honestly, I think it's as simple as I already stated before; it's not about what players are willing to do, it's about what Anet decides needs to be done. Having played many MMO's, I don't see Anet acting uniquely in this regard either. > > Anyways, it appears that the most disruptive person of this thread has found himself a little vacation, so it seems to me that reasonable discussion can resume if people wish it. > > Personally, I would find it very difficult to think that implementing Leg. Armor in WvW would be a good idea for two reasons: > > 1. It would change the focus for WvW on some players; indeed you would find people joining WvW that are simply there to get armor and not participate in ways that 'real' WvW play. Their is also a limit to how many people can be in a map. Imagine not being able to get into a map and having the feeling that some fraction of those people could care less about winning ... it would frustrate me to no end. > 2. It would be a little bit of a stretch to associate this armor with a WvW 'story'. Seems a little weak but there is this element that Anet has to address. No idea who got the vacation. But.. Legendary Armor is already in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > Sure.** Point me one business in which you see a market failure and you continue doing it. **Decline in numbers is a natural process in this industry. It's not caused by raids, it's caused by age. The mere fact ANet keeps developing raids means the numbers would be lower now without the raids. > > > > As requested: > > Starwars Galaxies, NGE, they stuck with that bad decision.. right to the bitter end. > > > > Let me know if you won't accept being wrong about this as well and need another example, > > I'm not familiar with the bad decision in question. Care to enlighten me? Umm Starwars Galaxies NGE was a headliner of a Bad Decision, and an iconic cautionary tale of what not to do with MMO development. it's legacy as being the Mother Load of bad choices can be found on pretty much every game blog, site, and forum. With that said, Now, not being rude, but at this point, it's painfully obvious that you do not know or follow what is going on with the industry, so any illusion that you might have regarding how things pan out, is just that, an illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > I'm at the point where I'm convinced that this is not a matter of 'good vs. bad idea', it's simply a business decision on what they don't do to divert resources to implement it ... which clearly up to this point is 'it's not important enough to replace anything they are doing". > > > > > > > > > > You also believe that the loss of players is a viable cost to keep things the way they are, so, no doubt you would take this stand no matter what price Anet or GW2 pays for it. > > > > > > > > > > That aside,. Anet has already said this is the way things will be, while I think it is a bad business move to lock something like the ONLY PvE Legendary Armor behind an Expansion.. it's not my call to make.. it's a bold move.. lets see if it pays off. > > > > > > > > Um, no, that's your interpretation, no doubt taking a page from your other 'friends' book on that one. > > > > > > > > > > It really looks likes like you said that.. I mean.. have you forgotten this so soon? > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > Why should Anet provide other paths to Legendary Armor, well, customer retention would be a good reason, to keep with their founding philosophy would be another.. but they don't need to do either of those things. They can take the loss in both players and faith. > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > So be it ... Anet can't make the game everything for everyone. I see no problem with that. It's reasonable and practical. > > > > > > See right here, you said squarely when faced with the loss of players.. "so be it".. > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > Players are going to leave for lots of reasons and trying to claw them back with all the whatevers needed that will keep them is just NOT a viable business strategy. Again, there is a need to have a small amount of business acumen to understand what is happening here and I don't get why people don't understand it ... I can only hope that most people here have actually worked somewhere in their lives ... you see it every day at your workplaces ... this ISN'T some phenomenon limited to Anet or MMO developers. Arguing like the ROI on these decisions is just positive with zero impact on the rest of the business is naive. > > > > > > I think the confusion lies in why cater to >5% of the players who often don't spend a lot of money to start with, when you have limited resources. > > > > > > I mean, if a company has a limited amount of resources and time, if would be better served to reach out to their largest demographics to make the most money, That's just common sense. > > > > > > But.. again.. it is what it is. > > > > > > Lets see how it pans out. Worst case is that it becomes a cautionary tale, which I am sure myself and others would be glad to re-tell in every other game we play. > > > > I'm not contradicting myself here, so I don't know what the misunderstanding is. /shrug > > > > Honestly, I think it's as simple as I already stated before; it's not about what players are willing to do, it's about what Anet decides needs to be done. Having played many MMO's, I don't see Anet acting uniquely in this regard either. > > > > Anyways, it appears that the most disruptive person of this thread has found himself a little vacation, so it seems to me that reasonable discussion can resume if people wish it. > > > > Personally, I would find it very difficult to think that implementing Leg. Armor in WvW would be a good idea for two reasons: > > > > 1. It would change the focus for WvW on some players; indeed you would find people joining WvW that are simply there to get armor and not participate in ways that 'real' WvW play. Their is also a limit to how many people can be in a map. Imagine not being able to get into a map and having the feeling that some fraction of those people could care less about winning ... it would frustrate me to no end. > > 2. It would be a little bit of a stretch to associate this armor with a WvW 'story'. Seems a little weak but there is this element that Anet has to address. > > No idea who got the vacation. But.. Legendary Armor is already in WvW. I meant obtaining armor through an alternate path in WvW. I mean, it seems to me, the discussion was about having multiple paths to obtain leg. armor, many of the complaints centered around people that don't raid who focus on WvW or PVP. Admittedly, I had not thought of an additional path in PVE as an option ... but I can't see how that's any more willing to be entertained as an option than a WVW might be. If we JUST limit ourselves to PVE alternate paths, it's hardly sensible to consider offering leg. armor in anything less than the most legendary to complete content, and that's raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > I'm at the point where I'm convinced that this is not a matter of 'good vs. bad idea', it's simply a business decision on what they don't do to divert resources to implement it ... which clearly up to this point is 'it's not important enough to replace anything they are doing". > > > > > > > > > > > > You also believe that the loss of players is a viable cost to keep things the way they are, so, no doubt you would take this stand no matter what price Anet or GW2 pays for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > That aside,. Anet has already said this is the way things will be, while I think it is a bad business move to lock something like the ONLY PvE Legendary Armor behind an Expansion.. it's not my call to make.. it's a bold move.. lets see if it pays off. > > > > > > > > > > Um, no, that's your interpretation, no doubt taking a page from your other 'friends' book on that one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It really looks likes like you said that.. I mean.. have you forgotten this so soon? > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > Why should Anet provide other paths to Legendary Armor, well, customer retention would be a good reason, to keep with their founding philosophy would be another.. but they don't need to do either of those things. They can take the loss in both players and faith. > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > So be it ... Anet can't make the game everything for everyone. I see no problem with that. It's reasonable and practical. > > > > > > > > See right here, you said squarely when faced with the loss of players.. "so be it".. > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > Players are going to leave for lots of reasons and trying to claw them back with all the whatevers needed that will keep them is just NOT a viable business strategy. Again, there is a need to have a small amount of business acumen to understand what is happening here and I don't get why people don't understand it ... I can only hope that most people here have actually worked somewhere in their lives ... you see it every day at your workplaces ... this ISN'T some phenomenon limited to Anet or MMO developers. Arguing like the ROI on these decisions is just positive with zero impact on the rest of the business is naive. > > > > > > > > I think the confusion lies in why cater to >5% of the players who often don't spend a lot of money to start with, when you have limited resources. > > > > > > > > I mean, if a company has a limited amount of resources and time, if would be better served to reach out to their largest demographics to make the most money, That's just common sense. > > > > > > > > But.. again.. it is what it is. > > > > > > > > Lets see how it pans out. Worst case is that it becomes a cautionary tale, which I am sure myself and others would be glad to re-tell in every other game we play. > > > > > > I'm not contradicting myself here, so I don't know what the misunderstanding is. /shrug > > > > > > Honestly, I think it's as simple as I already stated before; it's not about what players are willing to do, it's about what Anet decides needs to be done. Having played many MMO's, I don't see Anet acting uniquely in this regard either. > > > > > > Anyways, it appears that the most disruptive person of this thread has found himself a little vacation, so it seems to me that reasonable discussion can resume if people wish it. > > > > > > Personally, I would find it very difficult to think that implementing Leg. Armor in WvW would be a good idea for two reasons: > > > > > > 1. It would change the focus for WvW on some players; indeed you would find people joining WvW that are simply there to get armor and not participate in ways that 'real' WvW play. Their is also a limit to how many people can be in a map. Imagine not being able to get into a map and having the feeling that some fraction of those people could care less about winning ... it would frustrate me to no end. > > > 2. It would be a little bit of a stretch to associate this armor with a WvW 'story'. Seems a little weak but there is this element that Anet has to address. > > > > No idea who got the vacation. But.. Legendary Armor is already in WvW. > > I meant obtaining armor through an alternate path in WvW. I mean, it seems to me, the discussion was about having multiple paths to obtain leg. armor, many of the complaints centered around people that don't raid who focus on WvW or PVP. Admittedly, I had not thought of an additional path in PVE as an option ... but I can't see how that's any more willing to be entertained as an option than a WVW might be. > > If we JUST limit ourselves to PVE alternate paths, it's hardly sensible to consider offering leg. armor in anything less than the most legendary to complete content, and that's raids. Because I need to clarify.... > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > Would be nice to have a path to all legendary gear (weapons, armors, trinkets and back pieces) for every mode (owpve, dungeons, fractals, raids, spvp, wvw)... so players can play how they want. > > > > > > Just remember folks... “It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” - Mike O’Brien > > > > What's the whole point of this thread if I may ask? > > > > -There is already legendary armor for all game modes and the only difference is that raid armor has a different skin...if you want the skin then play the content ? And no..I hate raids but I need legendary armor for wvw..so I just do that and craft legendary armor using wvw mode, I don't need the skin, if I want the skin I play the content > > "the whole point" is located in the very first sentence. > > Also, what is this hang up on legendary armor? Read... "Would be nice to have a path to all legendary gear (weapons, armors, trinkets and back pieces) for every mode (owpve, dungeons, fractals, raids, spvp, wvw)... so players can play how they want."... This is about end game gear rewards for every area of the game, and for every player. It's bigger than legendary raid armor. > > So let's break this down... > > .... "path to all legendary gear (weapons, armors, trinkets and back pieces)" > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_weapon > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_back_item > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_trinket > > FOR... > > "every mode (owpve, dungeons, fractals, raids, spvp, wvw)" > > because... > > reasons. Also, we have Raid, WvW and Spvp Legendary Armor... "Legendary armor was introduced to PvP and WvW with the August 8th, 2017 balance patch. Since this is an upgrade, the stat-swappable armor does not include a new unique skin, but is instead the same skin as the ascended piece that was upgraded."... August 8th, 2017 was 7 months ago.... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor Raid... "It takes 150 Legendary Insights to obtain the first set of Legendary raid armor. With the weekly cap of 17 Legendary Insights, this will take approximately 9 weeks of reaching the required amount. Any subsequent sets of legendary armor cost 300 Legendary Insights, taking approximately 18 weeks each, because crafting additional Refined Envoy armor precursor sets costs 150 Legendary Insights." Spvp... "It takes 300 to obtain a full set of Legendary PvP armor. With the season cap of 100 , this will take 3 seasons of reaching the season cap. It takes 3,600 to obtain a full set of Legendary PvP armor. 2,400 for the Star of Glory and 1,200 for the full Ascended Glorious armor set. All of that requires either 33 repeats of the final Byzantium reward track for most efficiency or 9 seasons worth of not repeating the reward tracks." WvW... "It takes 7,880 to obtain a full set of Legendary Triumphant Hero's armor. With the weekly cap of 365 , this will take approximately 22 weeks. It takes 10,500 to obtain a full set of Legendary Mistforged Triumphant Hero's armor. With the weekly cap of 365 , this will take approximately 29 weeks." More Legendary stuff for Spvp... > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > @"Ziooo.8932" said: > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > It's a 3rd set of glorious armor using the original as a base with some enhancements. > > > > How's that gonna work compared to WvW? We have 3 sets there, and you require the 1st to be able to buy the 2nd and that one to by the 3rd (coupled with some high levels), the very first is received from reward tracks, where the others are bought, and both the 2nd and 3rd are upgradable to legendary. > > > > I'm kinda working on my pvp legendary armor, and i want to get this new set when its out to wear as my legendary, will i also require to have unlocked the other skins? I mean, we dont need glorious to be able to buy ardent as of now, and that "original" you're saying is the glorious or the ardent? Since in wvw we have more or less an indirect upgrade 1st>2nd>3rd, it'd be odd to have pvp be 1st>3rd. > > > > (if u cant/dont know the answer its fine) > > Current plan is that you'll need ardent to get the upgraded version of ardent. > We're also planning to have a tournament version that you can get for placing 1-4 in the monthly AT. > > I'm planning to make them upgradeable to legendary using the same type of recipe the ardent current uses. So why you say the below, you obviously didn't know that the devs already put more paths to legendary armor in the game, and are completely capable of making these alternate paths... > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > I'm at the point where I'm convinced that this is not a matter of 'good vs. bad idea', it's simply a business decision on what they don't do to divert resources to implement it ... which clearly up to this point is 'it's not important enough to replace anything they are doing". > > > > > > > > You also believe that the loss of players is a viable cost to keep things the way they are, so, no doubt you would take this stand no matter what price Anet or GW2 pays for it. > > > > > > > > That aside,. Anet has already said this is the way things will be, while I think it is a bad business move to lock something like the ONLY PvE Legendary Armor behind an Expansion.. it's not my call to make.. it's a bold move.. lets see if it pays off. > > > > > > Um, no, that's your interpretation, no doubt taking a page from your other 'friends' book on that one. > > > > > > > It really looks likes like you said that.. I mean.. have you forgotten this so soon? > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Why should Anet provide other paths to Legendary Armor, well, customer retention would be a good reason, to keep with their founding philosophy would be another.. but they don't need to do either of those things. They can take the loss in both players and faith. > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > So be it ... Anet can't make the game everything for everyone. I see no problem with that. It's reasonable and practical. > > > > See right here, you said squarely when faced with the loss of players.. "so be it".. > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > Players are going to leave for lots of reasons and trying to claw them back with all the whatevers needed that will keep them is just NOT a viable business strategy. Again, there is a need to have a small amount of business acumen to understand what is happening here and I don't get why people don't understand it ... I can only hope that most people here have actually worked somewhere in their lives ... you see it every day at your workplaces ... this ISN'T some phenomenon limited to Anet or MMO developers. Arguing like the ROI on these decisions is just positive with zero impact on the rest of the business is naive. > > > > I think the confusion lies in why cater to >5% of the players who often don't spend a lot of money to start with, when you have limited resources. > > > > I mean, if a company has a limited amount of resources and time, if would be better served to reach out to their largest demographics to make the most money, That's just common sense. > > > > But.. again.. it is what it is. > > > > Lets see how it pans out. Worst case is that it becomes a cautionary tale, which I am sure myself and others would be glad to re-tell in every other game we play. > > I'm not contradicting myself here, so I don't know what the misunderstanding is. /shrug > > Honestly, I think it's as simple as I already stated before; it's not about what players are willing to do, it's about what Anet decides needs to be done. Having played many MMO's, I don't see Anet acting uniquely in this regard either. > > Anyways, it appears that the most disruptive person of this thread has found himself a little vacation, so it seems to me that reasonable discussion can resume if people wish it. > > Personally, I would find it very difficult to think that implementing Leg. Armor in WvW would be a good idea for two reasons: > > 1. It would change the focus for WvW on some players; indeed you would find people joining WvW that are simply there to get armor and not participate in ways that 'real' WvW play. Their is also a limit to how many people can be in a map. Imagine not being able to get into a map and having the feeling that some fraction of those people could care less about winning ... it would frustrate me to no end. > 2. It would be a little bit of a stretch to associate this armor with a WvW 'story'. Seems a little weak but there is this element that Anet has to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I think we need to be clear what it means to 'have' legendary armor for Raid, WvW and Spvp. IIRC, this discussion has always been about having alternate paths to getting leg. armor, not having individual Leg. Armor sets for each game mode. What I know ... we HAVE a path to obtain leg. armor in raids. If there are alternate paths to get leg. armor in other game modes, then what does your original post even mean? _ "Would be nice to have a path to all legendary gear (weapons, armors, trinkets and back pieces) for every mode (owpve, dungeons, fractals, raids, spvp, wvw)... so players can play how they want."_ If we have paths in other game modes to obtain leg. armor, what's the problem here? We have the alternate paths people are asking for no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Thao.3947" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > No, the real reason why both polls are predetermined and irrelevant is because in both cases the population at large lack the knowledge to properly assess the consequences. This was the point of the analogy, and it is valid. Gamers, as a rule, have a pretty poor grasp on game design. There are exceptions, of course, but they won't change the outcome of such a poll. Another point of the analogy is that both would break the system. Whether you see it or not. > > > > > > > > > > Oh, I get that taking exclusivity of reward away from raids would likely be the death knell for that system. That type of reward structure is inextricably tied to the MMO construct that is raids. I would bet ANet knows it, too. What neither you nor I know is whether breaking the raid system would break the game -- even though it might break the game for raiders. Regardless, ANet is unlikely to go that way. Even if it could be proved that ANet is out a lot of revenue due to so-called casuals leaving due to upset about exclusive rewards, it's almost certainly too late to try to draw them back. > > > > > > > > Oh, but I can say for certain all of this. Yes, breaking the raids will effectively break the game for a lot of players. The game would end up in the same situation before the raids were introduced, and they were introduced for a reason - namely, to address this exact issue. The market result is out of question - ANet keeps developing raids, therefore they're a market success. > > > > > > Perhaps take a look at anets numbers, pre-raids and now. > > > > Sure.** Point me one business in which you see a market failure and you continue doing it. **Decline in numbers is a natural process in this industry. It's not caused by raids, it's caused by age. The mere fact ANet keeps developing raids means the numbers would be lower now without the raids. > > As requested: > Starwars Galaxies, NGE, they stuck with that bad decision.. right to the bitter end. > > Let me know if you won't accept being wrong about this as well and need another example, Yea they made the descision and dident back down. Anet made 1 raid wing saw it was a success and made 4 more, clearly it would have been cut like dungeons were after atherblade path if it was a failiure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > Sure.** Point me one business in which you see a market failure and you continue doing it. **Decline in numbers is a natural process in this industry. It's not caused by raids, it's caused by age. The mere fact ANet keeps developing raids means the numbers would be lower now without the raids. > > > > > > As requested: > > > Starwars Galaxies, NGE, they stuck with that bad decision.. right to the bitter end. > > > > > > Let me know if you won't accept being wrong about this as well and need another example, > > > > I'm not familiar with the bad decision in question. Care to enlighten me? > > Umm Starwars Galaxies NGE was a headliner of a Bad Decision, and an iconic cautionary tale of what not to do with MMO development. it's legacy as being the Mother Load of bad choices can be found on pretty much every game blog, site, and forum. With that said, Now, not being rude, but at this point, it's painfully obvious that you do not know or follow what is going on with the industry, so any illusion that you might have regarding how things pan out, is just that, an illusion. > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > Sure.** Point me one business in which you see a market failure and you continue doing it. **Decline in numbers is a natural process in this industry. It's not caused by raids, it's caused by age. The mere fact ANet keeps developing raids means the numbers would be lower now without the raids. > > > > > > As requested: > > > Starwars Galaxies, NGE, they stuck with that bad decision.. right to the bitter end. > > > > > > Let me know if you won't accept being wrong about this as well and need another example, > > > > I'm not familiar with the bad decision in question. Care to enlighten me? > > Umm Starwars Galaxies NGE was a headliner of a Bad Decision, and an iconic cautionary tale of what not to do with MMO development. it's legacy as being the Mother Load of bad choices can be found on pretty much every game blog, site, and forum. With that said, Now, not being rude, but at this point, it's painfully obvious that you do not know or follow what is going on with the industry, so any illusion that you might have regarding how things pan out, is just that, an illusion. You're funny if you say he doesn't follow the industry while comparing NGE to the addition of raids in GW2. Those are not comparable. One redesigned the core of the game while the other is a small addition which can easily be ignored and nothing changes for the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > I think we need to be clear what it means to 'have' legendary armor for Raid, WvW and Spvp. IIRC, this discussion has always been about having alternate paths to getting leg. armor, not having individual Leg. Armor sets for each game mode. > > What I know ... we HAVE a path to obtain leg. armor in raids. If there are alternate paths to get leg. armor in other game modes, then what does your original post even mean? > > _ "Would be nice to have a path to all legendary gear (weapons, armors, trinkets and back pieces) for every mode (owpve, dungeons, fractals, raids, spvp, wvw)... so players can play how they want."_ > > If we have paths in other game modes to obtain leg. armor, what's the problem here? We have the alternate paths people are asking for no? > Not sure what the confusion is, but it’s pretty easy to follow and understand. This thread is about adding a path to all legendary gear for all of the various modes. I’d suggest rereading the post above your recent post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Thao.3947" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > No, the real reason why both polls are predetermined and irrelevant is because in both cases the population at large lack the knowledge to properly assess the consequences. This was the point of the analogy, and it is valid. Gamers, as a rule, have a pretty poor grasp on game design. There are exceptions, of course, but they won't change the outcome of such a poll. Another point of the analogy is that both would break the system. Whether you see it or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, I get that taking exclusivity of reward away from raids would likely be the death knell for that system. That type of reward structure is inextricably tied to the MMO construct that is raids. I would bet ANet knows it, too. What neither you nor I know is whether breaking the raid system would break the game -- even though it might break the game for raiders. Regardless, ANet is unlikely to go that way. Even if it could be proved that ANet is out a lot of revenue due to so-called casuals leaving due to upset about exclusive rewards, it's almost certainly too late to try to draw them back. > > > > > > > > > > Oh, but I can say for certain all of this. Yes, breaking the raids will effectively break the game for a lot of players. The game would end up in the same situation before the raids were introduced, and they were introduced for a reason - namely, to address this exact issue. The market result is out of question - ANet keeps developing raids, therefore they're a market success. > > > > > > > > Perhaps take a look at anets numbers, pre-raids and now. > > > > > > Sure.** Point me one business in which you see a market failure and you continue doing it. **Decline in numbers is a natural process in this industry. It's not caused by raids, it's caused by age. The mere fact ANet keeps developing raids means the numbers would be lower now without the raids. > > > > As requested: > > Starwars Galaxies, NGE, they stuck with that bad decision.. right to the bitter end. > > > > Let me know if you won't accept being wrong about this as well and need another example, > > Yea they made the descision and dident back down. > Anet made 1 raid wing saw it was a success and made 4 more, clearly it would have been cut like dungeons were after atherblade path if it was a failiure. What cute speculation, unfortunately everything you have said about the industry so far has been either patently wrong. And IIRC, Anet has _Abandoned_ dungeons from the start when they got rid of the vast majority of their dungeon team almost immediately after launch. > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > Sure.** Point me one business in which you see a market failure and you continue doing it. **Decline in numbers is a natural process in this industry. It's not caused by raids, it's caused by age. The mere fact ANet keeps developing raids means the numbers would be lower now without the raids. > > > > > > > > As requested: > > > > Starwars Galaxies, NGE, they stuck with that bad decision.. right to the bitter end. > > > > > > > > Let me know if you won't accept being wrong about this as well and need another example, > > > > > > I'm not familiar with the bad decision in question. Care to enlighten me? > > > > Umm Starwars Galaxies NGE was a headliner of a Bad Decision, and an iconic cautionary tale of what not to do with MMO development. it's legacy as being the Mother Load of bad choices can be found on pretty much every game blog, site, and forum. With that said, Now, not being rude, but at this point, it's painfully obvious that you do not know or follow what is going on with the industry, so any illusion that you might have regarding how things pan out, is just that, an illusion. > > You're funny if you say he doesn't follow the industry while comparing NGE to the addition of raids in GW2. Those are not comparable. One redesigned the core of the game while the other is a small addition which can easily be ignored and nothing changes for the player. No, I didn't compare the two. But you just did.. kinda telling. Please follow the discussion better in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Thao.3947" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > No, the real reason why both polls are predetermined and irrelevant is because in both cases the population at large lack the knowledge to properly assess the consequences. This was the point of the analogy, and it is valid. Gamers, as a rule, have a pretty poor grasp on game design. There are exceptions, of course, but they won't change the outcome of such a poll. Another point of the analogy is that both would break the system. Whether you see it or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, I get that taking exclusivity of reward away from raids would likely be the death knell for that system. That type of reward structure is inextricably tied to the MMO construct that is raids. I would bet ANet knows it, too. What neither you nor I know is whether breaking the raid system would break the game -- even though it might break the game for raiders. Regardless, ANet is unlikely to go that way. Even if it could be proved that ANet is out a lot of revenue due to so-called casuals leaving due to upset about exclusive rewards, it's almost certainly too late to try to draw them back. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, but I can say for certain all of this. Yes, breaking the raids will effectively break the game for a lot of players. The game would end up in the same situation before the raids were introduced, and they were introduced for a reason - namely, to address this exact issue. The market result is out of question - ANet keeps developing raids, therefore they're a market success. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps take a look at anets numbers, pre-raids and now. > > > > > > > > Sure.** Point me one business in which you see a market failure and you continue doing it. **Decline in numbers is a natural process in this industry. It's not caused by raids, it's caused by age. The mere fact ANet keeps developing raids means the numbers would be lower now without the raids. > > > > > > As requested: > > > Starwars Galaxies, NGE, they stuck with that bad decision.. right to the bitter end. > > > > > > Let me know if you won't accept being wrong about this as well and need another example, > > > > Yea they made the descision and dident back down. > > Anet made 1 raid wing saw it was a success and made 4 more, clearly it would have been cut like dungeons were after atherblade path if it was a failiure. > > What cute speculation, unfortunately everything you have said about the industry so far has been either patently wrong. And IIRC, Anet has _Abandoned_ dungeons from the start when they got rid of the vast majority of their dungeon team almost immediately after launch. > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > Sure.** Point me one business in which you see a market failure and you continue doing it. **Decline in numbers is a natural process in this industry. It's not caused by raids, it's caused by age. The mere fact ANet keeps developing raids means the numbers would be lower now without the raids. > > > > > > > > > > As requested: > > > > > Starwars Galaxies, NGE, they stuck with that bad decision.. right to the bitter end. > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you won't accept being wrong about this as well and need another example, > > > > > > > > I'm not familiar with the bad decision in question. Care to enlighten me? > > > > > > Umm Starwars Galaxies NGE was a headliner of a Bad Decision, and an iconic cautionary tale of what not to do with MMO development. it's legacy as being the Mother Load of bad choices can be found on pretty much every game blog, site, and forum. With that said, Now, not being rude, but at this point, it's painfully obvious that you do not know or follow what is going on with the industry, so any illusion that you might have regarding how things pan out, is just that, an illusion. > > > > You're funny if you say he doesn't follow the industry while comparing NGE to the addition of raids in GW2. Those are not comparable. One redesigned the core of the game while the other is a small addition which can easily be ignored and nothing changes for the player. > > No, I didn't compare the two. But you just did.. kinda telling. Please follow the discussion better in the future. The dungeon team were actually existend until late LS1. Just smaller. It got removed after Aetherpath. Also the NGE wasn't the mother of bad decisions. The ultimate failure was the return to the old systems years later. That broke their back not the NGE. NGE just did a lot of damage. It actually shows that you either revert it as soon as possible or you have to ride it until the end. Changing your mind later just causes even more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"katz.8376" said: > NGE was the most infamous fail in gaming history. SWG was super popular... had 3 expansions in only 2 years... people loved it! the 3rd expansion, however, completely changed the game. people left in DROVES. so many people were demanding refunds for the expack that Sony actually started issuing those refunds only about 2 weeks later.... took SIX more years for them to admit defeat and close the game down The closure of SWG had little to do with the NGE. SWG was closed because they didn't want to divide the playerbase between their old Star Wars MMO(SWG) and their new one (SWTOR). Sony's license to publish the product was at an end and rather than renewing it, a license was given to Bioware/EA. SWG had a lot of other problems, ones those who were passionate about the game refuse to really acknowledge in retrospect. While the NGE was certainly unpopular, a large number of the changes that were made were done because the game was already bleeding customers (mainly to WoW) . The combat was terrible pre-NGE and during it's peak, the game's infrastructure was not able to handle some basic things, leading to buggy and frustrating player experiences. @"Feanor.2358" The NGE parallel is **a meme** that some people like to draw when they see a choice made by an MMO developer that they disagree with. It's a change that fundamentally altered the existing product because it was faltering. It made changes to some basic design to attempt to bring the game in line with a rapidly changing playerbase that was influenced heavily by the success of competitors. It was an unpopular change that fans like to scapegoat for the eventual downfall of the title. But it is just a meme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"katz.8376" said: > NGE was the most infamous fail in gaming history. SWG was super popular... had 3 expansions in only 2 years... people loved it! the 3rd expansion, however, completely changed the game. people left in DROVES. so many people were demanding refunds for the expack that Sony actually started issuing those refunds only about 2 weeks later.... took SIX more years for them to admit defeat and close the game down > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies > > popular game, people played it because they liked the structure that that particular game had. then an expansion comes along and changes the game to an entirely different kind of game. the whole tone of the playstyle changes. the whole tone of the GAME changes. a select few like the changes, but a large number don't... they liked the game the old way. they leave in droves, taking their money with them. game continues to limp along for several more years, until......? > gee. sounds familiar. > > the question is, can this trainwreck be turned around in time? > You can note that they didn't release any more expansions. They stopped the development of the game and let it run on its own in order to collect the extra revenue the game would generate anyway while dying out. It didn't take them six years to "admit defeat". It took the game this much to stop earning noticeable profits that could at least cover its maintenance costs (which by the way are much lower than development costs). And to answer the question - no, you can't turn this around. Not in time, not at all. Precisely because development is extremely expensive. You can't just redesign the game *again* with a wave of a hand. And the players who left wouldn't come back anyway. Some would, of course, but not nearly enough to warrant spending the money on more development time. So this is actually an excellent example how you manage a losing situation in this business. They didn't stick with a mistake. They made one and they adapted to it. It meant the death of the game, but that's a possible outcome in any business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > You're funny if you say he doesn't follow the industry while comparing NGE to the addition of raids in GW2. No. He obviously doesn't follow the industry if he doesn't even know what SG NGE was. > @"Feanor.2358" said: > And to answer the question - no, you can't turn this around. Not in time, not at all. Precisely because development is extremely expensive. You can't just redesign the game *again* with a wave of a hand. And the players who left wouldn't come back anyway. Some would, of course, but not nearly enough to warrant spending the money on more development time. FFXIV players _did_ return. And it had a lot to do with dev reactions, attitude and willingness to talk to (and with) the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > The dungeon team were actually existend until late LS1. Just smaller. It got removed after Aetherpath. > > Also the NGE wasn't the mother of bad decisions. The ultimate failure was the return to the old systems years later. That broke their back not the NGE. NGE just did a lot of damage. > It actually shows that you either revert it as soon as possible or you have to ride it until the end. Changing your mind later just causes even more damage. Well No doubt you must have some insider info that allows you to know this, as it disagrees with pretty much every MMO blog and site out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > And IIRC, Anet has _Abandoned_ dungeons from the start when they got rid of the vast majority of their dungeon team almost immediately after launch. You do not recall correctly. Dungeons were a part of ANet's plans until the Aetherpath flopped after release in October of 2013. There was a revamp of Ascalonian Catacombs' three paths in early 2013. ANet then switched to using Living World releases as a vehicle for temporary dungeons, with the Molten Facility (April-May 2013), Canach's Lair (May-June 2013) then Aetherblade Retreat (June-July 2013). Due, in all likelihood, to the persistent dislike of temporary content, ANet switched from temporary dungeons to revising explorable paths. However, the first of these to appear was the Aetherpath in Twilight Arbor. This path was poorly received, and under-utilized. At that point, ANet switched to Fractals only for instanced PvE group content. So, Aetherpath was the dividing line at which dungeons were abandoned in favor of fractals (and much later, raids). As to the dedicated dungeon team, the dungeon lead, Robert Hrouda, left ANet in August of 2013, but I believe the team had been disbanded before that. In all likelihood, when ANet shifted dungeon development to the various Living World teams, they also reassigned the dungeon team members to one Living World team or another -- as that was a major restructuring within the company. I can find no evidence that the dungeon team was ever large enough to warrant the use of the adjective "vast." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katz.8376 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"katz.8376" said: > > NGE was the most infamous fail in gaming history. SWG was super popular... had 3 expansions in only 2 years... people loved it! the 3rd expansion, however, completely changed the game. people left in DROVES. so many people were demanding refunds for the expack that Sony actually started issuing those refunds only about 2 weeks later.... took SIX more years for them to admit defeat and close the game down > > The closure of SWG had little to do with the NGE. SWG was closed because they didn't want to divide the playerbase between their old Star Wars MMO(SWG) and their new one (SWTOR). Sony's license to publish the product was at an end and rather than renewing it, a license was given to Bioware/EA. > SWG had a lot of other problems, ones those who were passionate about the game refuse to really acknowledge in retrospect. While the NGE was certainly unpopular, a large number of the changes that were made were done because the game was already bleeding customers (mainly to WoW) . > The combat was terrible pre-NGE and during it's peak, the game's infrastructure was not able to handle some basic things, leading to buggy and frustrating player experiences. > > @"Feanor.2358" > The NGE parallel is **a meme** that some people like to draw when they see a choice made by an MMO developer that they disagree with. It's a change that fundamentally altered the existing product because it was faltering. It made changes to some basic design to attempt to bring the game in line with a rapidly changing playerbase that was influenced heavily by the success of competitors. It was an unpopular change that fans like to scapegoat for the eventual downfall of the title. > But it is just a meme. here's a little light reading for you: https://www.pcgamer.com/the-biggest-mmo-failures-in-history/ it has an entry for SWG. come see me after you read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > The closure of SWG had little to do with the NGE. SWG was closed because they didn't want to divide the playerbase between their old Star Wars MMO(SWG) and their new one (SWTOR). Sony's license to publish the product was at an end and rather than renewing it, a license was given to Bioware/EA. > SWG had a lot of other problems, ones those who were passionate about the game refuse to really acknowledge in retrospect. While the NGE was certainly unpopular, a large number of the changes that were made were done because the game was already bleeding customers (mainly to WoW) . Nope.. Try again, SWG was 2 years with their sub rate plateauing, when the NGE was released, and almost instantly went into decline, directly , they went from almost 300K subs to almost 100K within the year after the NGE was released (that's 2/3 of their player base quitting), but yah.. keep telling yourself that it was not the NGE, which, you know, goes against everything that has been said about the NGE and, yah.. .. even Sony themselves admitted that the NGE was a mistake and the death knell for their game.. I am am sure you know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > And IIRC, Anet has _Abandoned_ dungeons from the start when they got rid of the vast majority of their dungeon team almost immediately after launch. > > You do not recall correctly. > > Dungeons were a part of ANet's plans until the Aetherpath flopped after release in October of 2013. There was a revamp of Ascalonian Catacombs' three paths in early 2013. ANet then switched to using Living World releases as a vehicle for temporary dungeons, with the Molten Facility (April-May 2013), Canach's Lair (May-June 2013) then Aetherblade Retreat (June-July 2013). Due, in all likelihood, to the persistent dislike of temporary content, ANet switched from temporary dungeons to revising explorable paths. However, the first of these to appear was the Aetherpath in Twilight Arbor. This path was poorly received, and under-utilized. At that point, ANet switched to Fractals only for instanced PvE group content. So, Aetherpath was the dividing line at which dungeons were abandoned in favor of fractals (and much later, raids). > > As to the dedicated dungeon team, the dungeon lead, Robert Hrouda, left ANet in August of 2013, but I believe the team had been disbanded before that. In all likelihood, when ANet shifted dungeon development to the various Living World teams, they also reassigned the dungeon team members to one Living World team or another -- as that was a major restructuring within the company. > > I can find no evidence that the dungeon team was ever large enough to warrant the use of the adjective "vast." Good to know. I was not playing at the time, it was just what I had been told. I am secure enough to admit that I was wrong, and learned something new today. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > I think we need to be clear what it means to 'have' legendary armor for Raid, WvW and Spvp. IIRC, this discussion has always been about having alternate paths to getting leg. armor, not having individual Leg. Armor sets for each game mode. > > > > What I know ... we HAVE a path to obtain leg. armor in raids. If there are alternate paths to get leg. armor in other game modes, then what does your original post even mean? > > > > _ "Would be nice to have a path to all legendary gear (weapons, armors, trinkets and back pieces) for every mode (owpve, dungeons, fractals, raids, spvp, wvw)... so players can play how they want."_ > > > > If we have paths in other game modes to obtain leg. armor, what's the problem here? We have the alternate paths people are asking for no? > > > > Not sure what the confusion is, but it’s pretty easy to follow and understand. This thread is about adding a path to all legendary gear for all of the various modes. > > I’d suggest rereading the post above your recent post... OK so we don't have multiple paths to legendary gear ... as I suspected. So I will just ignore what you posted from wiki that says it's implemented, cause it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > I think we need to be clear what it means to 'have' legendary armor for Raid, WvW and Spvp. IIRC, this discussion has always been about having alternate paths to getting leg. armor, not having individual Leg. Armor sets for each game mode. > > > > > > What I know ... we HAVE a path to obtain leg. armor in raids. If there are alternate paths to get leg. armor in other game modes, then what does your original post even mean? > > > > > > _ "Would be nice to have a path to all legendary gear (weapons, armors, trinkets and back pieces) for every mode (owpve, dungeons, fractals, raids, spvp, wvw)... so players can play how they want."_ > > > > > > If we have paths in other game modes to obtain leg. armor, what's the problem here? We have the alternate paths people are asking for no? > > > > > > > Not sure what the confusion is, but it’s pretty easy to follow and understand. This thread is about adding a path to all legendary gear for all of the various modes. > > > > I’d suggest rereading the post above your recent post... > > OK so we don't have multiple paths to legendary gear ... as I suspected. So I will just ignore what you posted from wiki that says it's implemented, cause it isn't. How do you not understand what I have been posting? I couldn't have simplified any of my comments more. "cause it isn't" What? Do you really not know what is in this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now