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What if you just replaced the quotes of praise with things like "PLAY FOR FREE", "FREQUENT CONTENT UPDATES", "EPIC PUZZLES AND ADVENTURES", "THOUSANDS OF WEAPONS TO COLLECT", "100-PLAYER PVP BATTLES". Stuff that isn't directly related to Path of Fire, but reasons most people play in the first place. I've referred a few dozen friends to the game, and most of the recent ones didn't even know it was free!

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> @"Mike Silbowitz.1827" said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > First, I would not use quotes from the forum, use narration with a Gaelic/Celtic voice (It is just perfect for narrating). This makes it look like you are only cherry picking and showing the stuff that's favorable to you. It's why I never watch videos that people post of themselves from youtube, they are always edited to make themselves look good. Use lines from the game, many of your trailers have great narration, use that instead.

> >

> > Second, I never see GW2 advertised anywhere except for the occasional online link. If you had the resources to produce a television ad, it could bring in a lot of interest and new players. Maybe try hooking up with Steam, that can connect a ton of potential customers to GW2, and other Anet/NcSoft games.

> >

> > Third, marketing needs to focus on changing consumer emotions and thoughts. That music is good, but you need to add something stronger that makes the blood flow. Music is a powerful tool that can affect how people feel and think, and more importantly how they associate those feelings with a product. The visual aspect needs to display what a player can do. You can be sexy, heroic, and embark on great adventures in a huge world. Showing some npc's walking around does not do that. Showing a player exploring a beautiful map, and suddenly getting attacked by an enormous beast ambushing them while the music shifts from peaceful to heart pounding and combative, does that. It makes people more interested.

>

 

> Thank you for this. I agree that we need to go broader with our advertising. TV and Out of Home is something we need to consider, particularly to engage new players.

>

> Music is key to tap into the emotional connection and leaning on our beautiful content is key, particularly when we show to player experience.

 

I would like to say thank you for this thread. I always appreciate it when staff are engaged in a discussion with players and interested in feedback on how to improve something.

 

I'd also like to add that it should not be focused solely on PoF. I don't mean to sound like PoF does not have a lot of great things to show off, but so does the rest of the game. The Mouth of Mordremoth for example, kitten amazing. If you show a shot of that thing coming up behind a player who then slowly turns around for example. Show off the diverse scenery. I personally love the Shiverpeaks areas, the majestic snow capped mountains are just beautiful.

 

Guild Wars 2 also has the absolute best combat system of any MMO out there. It needs to be showcased.

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Great start on the video I feel, I would add maybe using some clips of MO talking about the new features in the PoF reveal stream show, I feel it could work well when showing different quotes, like show the quote about the mounts then insert a clip of him talking about them, I feel it would add some personality to it! Awesome to see that the devs are looking at the community for suggestions, keep it up!

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Text quotes from players, reviewers, some guy's cat... it doesn't mean anything. No company is going to quote "_it was only ok_" in their trailer are they? It comes from a bias source so it carries no weight.

 

I am far less cynical about live reactions trailers. Clips of streamers responding to the game as things happen. Even though that can be staged, and it is still

cherry picked, I have more faith in my ability to spot the genuine reactions, therefore, more likely to believe that this game that would elicit similar reactions as I played it.

 

As more general feedback for reaching the wider audience (_non Guild Wars 2 players_)... tell a better story. Not a story that whets the appetite of Guild Wars 2 players but a story that anyone can enjoy.

 

Trailers that tell a universal story are ones that I have shared with other people, even when I have no interest in playing the game they are advertising. Surely when a person that isn't even interested, is happily sharing the work, the chances of reaching others is higher.

 

Here are a few examples of trailers I have shared with friends...

 

[Wildstar Warplots](

"Wildstar Warplots")

 

[Overwatch Bastion](

"Overwatch Bastion")

 

[Meet the Pyro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ4-obTw0VY "Meet the Pyro")

 

The first two come from games I knew I was never going to play, but I shared the trailer anyway because I liked the character or the story being told. I enjoyed it for what it was. The last one was a game I did play and although I didn't entice a brand new player to the game, sharing it with friends that used to play, did bring a few back for a while.

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All right, first things first, I'm just gonna apologize for my bad writing, I kind of rushed this statement, sorry. :P Second, I want to say that this promo video is definitely a step up in quality from some of the earlier promo videos, which is awesome, I mean GJ. But it still feels hollow, almost.

Putting myself in the perspective of a potential player looking for an mmo to play, I just can't feel myself thinking something along the lines of "Oh, this looks pretty cool, i'm gonna go try this game out now." Or something along those lines. I'm just not getting hooked in and i'll get into that in the following paragraphs

 

My biggest problem with this advert is that if I were a potential player, I'd have no idea who these people are. Are they players? Critics? Bribed hobos? Some way of knowing who they are through a mention like "- GW2 Player Jojomemester.69420" being placed just underneath the quotes or "The following comments are from GW2 Players." Being placed just before the advert starts would be cool or anything along those lines would be quite nice, especially if ANet are insistent on using community feedback, although I personally don't think using community praise is the best way to get people to buy your game, but i'll get more into that in my next point.

I feel that using exclusively community given praise (Which btw I wouldn't know they were members of the community if i'd never played the game before) isn't exactly optimal. The main reason is that, the opinions of nobodies(no offense to anyone featured in this advert) don't really hold any real value, especially in such a small quantity and from an advert from the developers in which case the replies are basically 100% cherry picked to make their product seem good. Ofc as a GW2 player ik that the POF is pretty 8/8 would r8 m8 but, naturally, someone who isn't wouldn't. I would recommend getting praise from professional critics since those statements will hold more weight. Of course if that's not an option then stick with the community praise but if it's available i'd say go from praise from critics or bribed hobos. Bribed hobos are most credible, 10/10 would have help me study for finals again.

Although I find the editing to be pretty good overall, I think the shot selection is slightly inaccurate. e.g. In the first quote which says something along the lines of "The Crystal Desert is beautiful." Why not show me a beautiful shot of the crystal desert instead of Balthazar? On the other hand, I think there's a lack of gameplay footage, while there are some exciting and beautiful shots, I don't have any idea how this game plays. Maybe showing some players doing bounties or fighting a boss in the open world would help.

Otherwise, I believe the font could be more sand themed, especially since the fade in and fade out animations resemble sand being blown away or burying something, which is lovely, btw.

 

Anyways, before I end this message I guess i'll just say this. Seriously ANet, you've been doing a great job lately, you've had your little hiccups here and there but overall you've been doing great and been getting even better, so keep up the good work.

 

Well, that's it. Thanks for reading. :DD Hopefully my suggestions were unique and good.

-Yours truly, some random nerd on the internet.

EDIT: IDK WHAT THESE YELLOW BOXES ARE HELP ME PLS

EDIT2: nvm fixed

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> @Cronos.6532 said:

> On the topic of the website rather than the trailer - not sure if it's so much of a marketing thing - showing microtransactions on the purchase page (the cart) is a huge turn-away. I don't know how much more the game actually makes by adding these buttons at checkout, but all of these should be removed completely:

>

> ![](https://i.imgur.com/4DPVjob.png "")

>

 

Disagree.

 

Potential customers should be told up front that they're buying a game that expects them to spend more money after they buy it. This store page is honest business and accurately portrays the GW2 business model for potential buyers.

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GW2 really needs to start clearly advertising what is coming into the game, random quotes from players are imo not clear at all, because every game has at least 1 player that likes it for some weird reason, player quotes are meaningless, unless they are from reviews, do not include quotes at all.

 

You guys can learn something from how WoW do their trailers. And this is coming from someone that isn't playing wow but is playing GW2, this trailer

is a good example, clearly lines out the features, clearly communicates what is being added to the game. You just had a tripple release, you didn't market it at all, most people didn't even know a raid or fractal was even coming. You should have a trailer with a bit of story, and then "New fractal" some shots from the fractal. "New raid" some shots from the raid, "continue your story" some story teasers, "new map" some shots from the map. "New legendary weapon" some shots of the new legendary added.

 

I get that you don't want to spoil to much and you certainly shouldn't but you need to announce what is in the update. And be very clear about it.

Anounce your features, make trailers for the living world that we can share with friends and say "this is what's in the new update" so we can get people to log in and so other people that don't play the game can clearly see "wow this game is adding stuff often" a cryptic story trailer doesn't show what's in the updates and we need GW2 to be way more clear about that.

 

I haven't played wow in years, but if i were to go back, i know exactly what i can expect, GW2 doesn't do this so i guess if you haven't played GW2 in a while, you don't really know what to expect at all. The only time you guys included the features is with the expansion anouncement and that stuff was super long. You need a bite sized (2-3 mins) short feature trailer for all major updates, so living world and expansions at least.

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"Still no build templates?" Celtus.8456

 

"...gem store updated weekly!" Celtus.8456

 

Am I doing this right?

 

Really though, I'm not sure how effective it is to be picking random positive quotes from forum users and compiling them like this. The response on Facebook to all of this has been lukewarm/outright negative. People might be more responsive if you quote reviews from known sources (even though these days it does seem more like "everyman" is effectively his own journalist with social media, but still). Or, as others said, just tell people about the game or what exciting things are new. Also not sure why the community needs to advise on this, making it feel amateurish...but we remember how awful some of the previous marketing attempts by ArenaNet were (some linked in this thread), so I guess the caution is warranted. Good luck.

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I think ads like this are lacking character, perhaps literally as in NPCs. Well-defined characters are central to a game's identity and I would try to establish GW2's IP through its NPC cast. Show their names and give them brief characterizations that allow the viewer to match a personality to a face. Give people a reason to be curious about the game beyond the obvious elements of MMO gameplay. People don't buy a Tomb Raider game because it's another third-person action-platformer about ancient civilizations, they buy the game because they like the character of Lara Croft.

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Hey Mike.

 

I think the video itself is fine, but it wouldn't necessarily bring me into the game. I just started playing again a couple weeks ago since I have some time between my college's quarters. To get to the core of what could draw people in, I think it would be good to look at why someone wouldn't want to play the game or already quit. I won't pretend to speak for other people, but I can give you reasons why I stopped and then came back.

 

End game and combat

I honestly didn't even make it to max level my first trip into GW2. I wanted to pvp, but you could do that at any level, so end game was a big question mark to me. I never got to see any cool boss fights or any challenging content, which I think would have been enough to keep me around longer. Dodging attacks and switching weapons for quick combos is pretty basic stuff for a veteran, but showing what an intense fight looks like as a player and how many buttons they have to hit is actually interesting to see. One thing I miss about older WoW is how many moves I used to have on my Warlock, but now I'm enjoying all the stuff I have to do and pay attention to on my Scourge. I know I said I'd speak for myself, but there are definitely many players who are tired of their three or four button rotations in that game. Also, teasing some fun fights and hectic events could be beneficial. I'm having a blast in Istan right now and it's honestly hard for me to want to go anywhere else. The pirate ship part of the Palawadan raid kinda sucks, but it's at least so visually hectic that it makes for a good scene to look at. Show a bunch of people fighting for their lives and grappling onto pirate ships (even though this is false advertising because you just hit the side of the boat and then fall into the water to die). Just some thoughts!

 

Another quick note worth considering is how to incorporate a sense of progression. You can't show off nice armor in a trailer without context. People gotta work hard for that stuff, and that hard work is what draws in people like myself. If I look cooler than someone, it's 'cause I earned it. It could be something as simple as a character running with starting gear, then maybe wearing a mid-level karma set, then a nice exotic set with a cool, glowy infused weapon. I still don't even have a cool, glowy infused weapon! Something small like that in a trailer can easily show off the sense of progression all in the span of a few seconds so people know what they're working towards.

 

Mounts and exploration

I hated not having a mount. It was a fun novelty at first, but I got tired of running around by level 30 or 40. Other games had spoiled me. Now that there are mounts in the game, it would be wise to show off that they aren't just for getting from point A to point B in a linear fashion. After all, mounts as a concept are nothing new. Why should anyone care? Well, as a returning player, I was fine with just a plain point A to point B mount, but the ones that are available brought so much more to the table that I didn't anticipate. I'm having such a good time just hopping around really high on my big dumb bunny. If you can manage to capture how fun it is to navigate up, down, and all around the maps, it should sell itself without the need for quotes. I wonder if it would even be a good idea to have a separate short video dedicated to just the mounts. Maybe a quick tale of a few adventurers trying to overcome some obstacle(s) on their preferred mounts, succeeding or failing miserably as each task dictates certain things. You could easily make something like that funny as well for appeal and to give people a reason to want to look into it more (or perhaps simply share it with others).

 

General critique of the video

I think everyone else has mentioned the quotes to death. I don't ever care what they have to say no matter who says it, honestly. I get why a player would have a quote as well, but it works better on paper than in practice since nobody would know Anet's tag conventions among other reasons.

 

One thing I can't stand is when I'm told about something and not just shown it. Just show me! Show me the Crystal Desert. I've ran around the whole place and there are some very nice areas in Path of Fire that should be given some proper screen time. A lot of shots seemed too close and you couldn't really get a feel for the sense of scale or how pleasant it really is to look out across the map. GW2 is a beautiful game and I don't think the video really did it justice -- and I play on low settings! There are tons of cool little things to show off that you guys can highlight and utilize.

 

This isn't GW2 specific, but I've noticed that many MMOs are scared to death to show off what it's like to actually be a player from the player's point of view. I'm not saying you need to go as far as to have the UI on and I realize it clashes with the aesthetics of big cinematic shots; however, as a viewer and potential customer, I always feel like when any company does this, they're trying to hide something from me by not showing a person just playing the game. This is especially true of any game claiming Free to Play and even MORE so with Free to Play MMOs. Interesting looking gameplay goes a long way considering it's the core of the game. Those crappy F2P MMOs? They have reasons to hide their gameplay. GW2 doesn't. It's easily one of the best selling points.

 

Good luck in the future.

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> @Spurnshadow.3678 said:

> I appreciate the engagement, but how much are you getting paid? I'm not going to do your job.

 

Well, developers are also getting paid and ppl want to burn them in hell if they don't listen to players feedback. Why a marketing person can't ask a question and discuss stuff to attract new players to the game ? This was a bullshit comment to me.

 

As for the video, my only complaint is the quotes, i didint sell the game for me, id rather see what content the game offers :). Also why not include some HoT stuff? Considering GW2 style of progression HoT is still relevant i believe :)

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Over all I thought it was good. I have 4 suggestions:

* I'd try to get a picture of the night sky in the desert,. That really jumped out at me when I played it.

* I would put some more of the pretty scenery before you go to the more war torn scenery. Those areas are more enjoyable for me to explore, and you can build up to the more dramatic stuff.

* I'd try to get some shots groups of players. The different weapon and armor skins and cooperative play of the zones are a nice feature of the game.

* This is probably too much to get into in a single video, but these are all features that would interest people, maybe some in separate videos: regular living story updates, end game content (fractals, raids, WvW, sPvP), holiday events.

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Your grades:

 

* A+ : For engaging the community.

* F : For thinking that anybody is going to care about quotes from RandomInterwebsDude.2645. Plenty of people have already said it, but here one more whack on the dead horse: "Nobody cares about cherry picked quotes from a bunch of anonymous interweb usernames."

* F : For creating yet another video game trailer using fake "gameplay" (your word, not mine) footage that obviously was not rendered in real time (or used hardware that none of us will ever be able to afford) and obviously was not created using positions, angles, and movement that are even possible when playing the game. Stop it. If you want to impress gamers who are NOT already GW2 players, show them the game! Don't show them over-produced hype footage that doesn't look like anything they'll ever see when playing. If you want to REALLY impress gamers who aren't currently GW2 players, record a video like that with text at the bottom of the screen that says "Actual game play footage using an Nvidia GTX 1050Ti." Show them how freakin' cool the game looks even using a $140 graphics card.

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If you were going down the route of user quotes, I would start the video with a clear question to what the quotes are answering. Gives the video a better easier to understand narrative.

 

For example, you could even hold discord chats with users so it is a bit more grabbing. But pose clear questions.

* What is your favourite part of Guild wars 2?

* How has your experience with the new expansion been?*

 

Etc etc. Lineage 2, as much as I hate being bombarded with adverts from the same game, some of the quick clips with narration really grab the attention. And honestly, I have no idea why you aren't selling WvW more!

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Hi Sibs,

I really like what you are doing and if you didn't make this post I was thinking it might be good to even make such a thing myself. Its really amazing how you have such easy access to consumer opinions and you have so many consumer advocates here in gw2, there is tremendous opportunity to reach a very large audience. As a bit of a sidetrack I'm studying a marketing major at university, and this is really fun for me to talk about, I hope my tiny bit of free market research will mean something to you.

 

 

Firstly I just want to comment on what others have said here. One of the biggest things that I have seen pop up is the eve online trailer "This is Eve", it's definitely my favorite marketing message for any game company. To that end I believe the best place to start is by taking this god-tier marketing example and contrast it to the one you have given us to look at.

The first thing that stands out is that eve totally immerses the viewer into the game. It not only sinks you into the game but more importantly it gives you a place or a rank, so to speak, with the other players there. We can talk about how this appeals to a consumer's sense of belonging which is a need that Maslow talks about, we can talk about McClelland and the need for a sense of affiliation, how it makes you feel powerful even. (eve online really isn't nearly as social as that trailer makes us think it is, so do you think it was an accident that they decided to hammer the social aspect of it so hard?) Then when they see these massive ships they think "that could be me?" "I could fly that?" that's talking about need recognition and self-concept theory and more. Even that scene with the massive payload is a strategically placed bit of Freudian theory.

They made playing the game feel so easy and seamless, gratifying and welcoming, honestly, I think that every single person here kinda wants to play eve after seeing that trailer. However, after seeing the trailer you gave us to look at, I felt a different way.

 

In the new trailer, the only thing I saw was lifeless NPC's and audio trying to add emotion, to make them seem and feel more human than what they actually are. That sort of a message would have worked 10 years ago I think, today however people are smarter and they know the difference between a robot and a human.

 

**Straight away** my suggestion for improvement is to use players in your trailers instead of cutscenes and NPCs.

**Secondly,** I would put much more impressive scenery in the game. I personally would definitely want to be capitalizing on a lot on the new stuff, forget the risen who is well overdue for higher resolution models, I would be putting footage of players using that underworld sky path in the new raid.

**Lastly and most importantly,** I would be putting player social interaction into every marketing message I could. Let's get real, people aren't looking at gw2 because they want more single-player gameplay, they don't join for story content and badass looking balthazars. Tell me what do people want out of gw2 more than anything else?

They want to join guilds and make friends, they want to face difficult challenges as a group of friends, they want to have fun poking jokes and talking about experiences, they want to show off their sexy new armor to their friends and win their admiration and most of all they want a place they can be accepted.

I know the reality is different when people play gw2 they spend most of their time solo or in unorganized groups, that's why your metrics will say something different, but it doesn't change what they want. Show people how they can fly griffons in packs at high speeds, show people having fun in difficult content (a music guild tries to raid anyone), let's see that footage of crazy guild events and people chanting in wvw. I believe this is a better way to appeal to our consumer's emotional state.

 

 

Consider something like [this](https://media.giphy.com/media/26FfgbIyE9N5hQau4/giphy.gif "this") without the bug and with much better resolution.

 

Well that's my little bit, I hope you find it useful and please don't be hesitant to criticize anything I've said. I kinda have to restrain myself because I have 3 more assessments due tomorrow and making this into an essay is probably not a smart decision xD but I think I covered the big part that I really wanted to cover. I will edit later if I can remember anything glaringly massive. Thanks for reading my post, I hope you find it useful!

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If this is supposed to target people who haven't played GW2, it won't work. At all. It tells them some random people like an expansion for a random game they have never played.

 

Focus on what Guild Wars 2 does differently, just like you did back at launch. People have forgotten and need a reminder

 

 

Make THIS video, but for Guild Wars 2. This is how you market the game to people who haven't played before, not with blurbs from players they don't know about content they don't care about, but by focusing on what makes the game unique and putting it front and center.

 

I started playing EvE because of videos like the one above. I genuinely would not be convinced by your trailer. List your features, don'te tell me "I loved the story" and 'Crystal Desert looks amazing", what the hell is the Crystal Desert anyways? Talk about the awesome instanced content, the business model, the frequency of updates, the music and the art, the dynamic event system etc.

 

And more importantly, market GUILD WARS 2. Not the expansion, THE GAME ITSELF. The people you are targetting with this add will have to start with core GW2, so all this praise for PoF is even more meaningless.

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It's been said quite a bit already in this thread, and appreciate your willingness to hear our thoughts, but I have 0 care for any player's opinion on the Expansion, it already comes with quite a heavy bias when using players' reviews. Perhaps, if you do you intend on including in game players, maybe interview 'celebrity'-esq players, maybe - and this is quite hypothetically speaking - highest AP, PvP champions etc. and give a short brief explanation of who they are (i.e Season 4 PvP Champion underneath their username).

 

EDIT: And I don't want to come off as insulting, but there hasn't been a recent trailer for GW2 which I've felt proud to show my friends, possibly due to the fact that

a) it had almost zero hyped up material in the trailer

b) it was too brief and recycled.

Show your new customers what they want to see. If you want to express how QoL or Casual friendly this game is, maybe try incorporate the features which define GW2 as being such.

-Xiri

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> @JustTrogdor.7892 said:

> Also aside from just cinematic show some actual game play. When I am shopping for games I see tons of epic cinematic views. That doesn't really show me how the game play looks though when I am in the game. So I then go to find player created videos that show what actual in game play looks like. I want to see what a fight looks like for real in game with all actual the in game graphics, effects etc. So maybe throw in a few seconds from an actual in game legendary bounty fight or something like that.

 

This is what I was thinking. Show a boss or big mob cinematic, then show a dodge from player perspective against a well telegraphed boss hit. Then another npc cinematic followed by a big flashy attack from a player perspective against a mob. You guys have a pretty slick combat system and I think you can showcase that and new content hand in hand. Focus on some PoF skills in particular and it might sell to new and returning players simultaneously. Mix up between solo, 5 player, and 10 player scenes to show off some different aspects too.

 

Edit: I guess another way to put it is I don't buy a game for cut scenes, I buy it for gameplay. Some games have awesome cutscenes/graphics and an alright story, but the gameplay is horrible. Use the gameplay/mechanics (I.e. 99% of what you're doing in the game) with a story hook at the beginning and end, then show how much fun it is to get there.

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Tbh i could't care less about quotes made by random fans. I can find 5 ppl from any game who tells the game is awesome. What I am missing is narrative with the "sexy" GW2 voices. I want them to call me into the game. I want to feel that the game needs me. The hero. Who saves Tyria. Once again. The music should start slow, with slow movement then drag me into the trailer while its heating up more and more. Final cut. The elder dragon roaaaaaaars. :)

 

Yeah and gameplay gameplay gameplay. Dont hide the griffon show it flying over the map. I had soooooo many great moment flying over the map starting from a high hill.

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> @painedOne.7104 said:

> I only have one thing to note:

> > @"Mike Silbowitz.1827" said:

> ... "while displaying gameplay "...

> I didn't see any gameplay footage. Lots of sweeping low angles and pretty shots of nameless characters/gods. Like most snippet trailers I see for games it shows nothing that will actually be experienced outside of cutscene footage. That footage isn't gameplay, and provides no reference to the joy of a griffon race, bouncing up a towering pinnacle, or leaping across canyons. The graphics are nice, but that's all this showcases, not the content or the actual experience.

>

 

I would have to agree with this. Take into account that you want players to get involved with the story, but you also want them to get an insight into what the actual interface of the game is like because it will be 90% of what they see. Cut scenes immerse them in the story, people want to see different fluidity in the combat style. Alot of people come from games where you can't move and have to stop, cast, then move again, not the fluid combat that we have.

 

I suggest getting a juicy snippet of a world boss like tequatl or even the raids...oh my word, the Raid GAMEPLAY footage will bait them alot... imagine this "RAIDS!" played in all black, then screen cuts to a grindy scene vs the new Dhuum wing. Do you remember when Collin Johanson did his "hey i swung a sword...hey i swung it again..." base most of it off of that...but PLEASE throw in gameplay.

 

Another thing I want to mention is that, while I know that the way you spread the games existance is word of mouth / Advertisements on some webpage, I would like to recommend at least 1 very short, image flashing commercial and end with the Guild Wars 2 ORIGINAL logo telling the viewers on Television to visit our forum page for more information...Leave them hanging, MAKE them be curious.

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My initial reaction is "Ho Hum". This video lacks any intensity to make it memorable. The graphics ARE great in GW2, but so is the idea of play how you want.

 

I try to sell friends on the range of activities available when you choose to spend free time here. I try to sell them on the immersion and fun, casual/group atmosphere for open world events. That is the main feature unique to GW2.

 

No structure or party formation is required to have fun. Just log in, get immersed in the beautiful world. For more intense, formatted group play, you can choose to play in PVP, WvW, Raids, Dungeons or Fractals depending on your taste.

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