ThunderPanda.1872 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @GottFaust.5297 said: > > @ThunderPanda.1872 said: > > Do you know what this pirateship meta reminds me of? > > Kitten WvW fights back when the game just released, when everyone would pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew from range and avoid every melee confrontation as possible since everyone's playing an uplevel with absolutely trash gear. > > Also reminds me of kitten EOTM with everyone in zerker gear pew pew pew pew. > > > > Lemme tell you, that's kitten boring, but x 99999999999999 worse because of larger, longer, stronger AOE and atrocious condi > > > > Melee train brought in interesting maneuvers and positioning plays to get your hammer/sword into the face of the opponent instead of this pew pew aoe aoe kite kite kite kite mess. And it's not like range classes were useless in the melee train meta, necros and eles were the primary dps... Melee had it's useful role and range also had it's useful role. Unless you've only been feeding in lower tiers, you should know how utterly pointless melee is against most good pirate ship groups. > > Most T1/2 fight-centric guilds run 2x guards and 1 war in every party. How is melee useless when it's 3 5ths of all squads? All those burn firebrands arent really melee... and warrior is just there for bubbles that literally just encourages a lot more range... I mean even in small groups... just look at this... > @Sovereign.1093 said: > Sample small group versus many. This is why there should be atleast one fb in a squad. > > > > p.s. im not really good on videos. Literally proves that the counter to all these kitten mechanics is to out condi them with range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottFaust.5297 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @ThunderPanda.1872 said: > > @GottFaust.5297 said: > > > @ThunderPanda.1872 said: > > > Do you know what this pirateship meta reminds me of? > > > Kitten WvW fights back when the game just released, when everyone would pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew from range and avoid every melee confrontation as possible since everyone's playing an uplevel with absolutely trash gear. > > > Also reminds me of kitten EOTM with everyone in zerker gear pew pew pew pew. > > > > > > Lemme tell you, that's kitten boring, but x 99999999999999 worse because of larger, longer, stronger AOE and atrocious condi > > > > > > Melee train brought in interesting maneuvers and positioning plays to get your hammer/sword into the face of the opponent instead of this pew pew aoe aoe kite kite kite kite mess. And it's not like range classes were useless in the melee train meta, necros and eles were the primary dps... Melee had it's useful role and range also had it's useful role. Unless you've only been feeding in lower tiers, you should know how utterly pointless melee is against most good pirate ship groups. > > > > Most T1/2 fight-centric guilds run 2x guards and 1 war in every party. How is melee useless when it's 3 5ths of all squads? > > All those burn firebrand isn't really melee... and warrior is just there for bubbles that literally just encourages a lot more range... Seeing as at least half the FBs alternate burn with greatsword for the pull/spin sillyness in bubbles and the warriors go crazy with their hammers: I'd say melee still plays a huge part. You can' just run blindly into the enemy blob anymore no matter what formation you're in. It's all about watching for mistakes/cracks and capitalizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPanda.1872 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @GottFaust.5297 said: > > @ThunderPanda.1872 said: > > > @GottFaust.5297 said: > > > > @ThunderPanda.1872 said: > > > > Do you know what this pirateship meta reminds me of? > > > > Kitten WvW fights back when the game just released, when everyone would pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew from range and avoid every melee confrontation as possible since everyone's playing an uplevel with absolutely trash gear. > > > > Also reminds me of kitten EOTM with everyone in zerker gear pew pew pew pew. > > > > > > > > Lemme tell you, that's kitten boring, but x 99999999999999 worse because of larger, longer, stronger AOE and atrocious condi > > > > > > > > Melee train brought in interesting maneuvers and positioning plays to get your hammer/sword into the face of the opponent instead of this pew pew aoe aoe kite kite kite kite mess. And it's not like range classes were useless in the melee train meta, necros and eles were the primary dps... Melee had it's useful role and range also had it's useful role. Unless you've only been feeding in lower tiers, you should know how utterly pointless melee is against most good pirate ship groups. > > > > > > Most T1/2 fight-centric guilds run 2x guards and 1 war in every party. How is melee useless when it's 3 5ths of all squads? > > > > All those burn firebrand isn't really melee... and warrior is just there for bubbles that literally just encourages a lot more range... > > Seeing as at least half the FBs alternate burn with greatsword for the pull/spin sillyness in bubbles and the warriors go crazy with their hammers: I'd say melee still plays a huge part. You can' just run blindly into the enemy blob anymore no matter what formation you're in. It's all about watching for mistakes/cracks and capitalizing. You mean, out range, out dps in range, out kill in range them until they don't have as much people before going into melee to speed up their deaths when they could no longer put up a decent fight regardless? Or some kitten tag moves into a terrible spot that can't allow them to kite anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottFaust.5297 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @ThunderPanda.1872 said: > > @GottFaust.5297 said: > > > @ThunderPanda.1872 said: > > > > @GottFaust.5297 said: > > > > > @ThunderPanda.1872 said: > > > > > Do you know what this pirateship meta reminds me of? > > > > > Kitten WvW fights back when the game just released, when everyone would pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew from range and avoid every melee confrontation as possible since everyone's playing an uplevel with absolutely trash gear. > > > > > Also reminds me of kitten EOTM with everyone in zerker gear pew pew pew pew. > > > > > > > > > > Lemme tell you, that's kitten boring, but x 99999999999999 worse because of larger, longer, stronger AOE and atrocious condi > > > > > > > > > > Melee train brought in interesting maneuvers and positioning plays to get your hammer/sword into the face of the opponent instead of this pew pew aoe aoe kite kite kite kite mess. And it's not like range classes were useless in the melee train meta, necros and eles were the primary dps... Melee had it's useful role and range also had it's useful role. Unless you've only been feeding in lower tiers, you should know how utterly pointless melee is against most good pirate ship groups. > > > > > > > > Most T1/2 fight-centric guilds run 2x guards and 1 war in every party. How is melee useless when it's 3 5ths of all squads? > > > > > > All those burn firebrand isn't really melee... and warrior is just there for bubbles that literally just encourages a lot more range... > > > > Seeing as at least half the FBs alternate burn with greatsword for the pull/spin sillyness in bubbles and the warriors go crazy with their hammers: I'd say melee still plays a huge part. You can' just run blindly into the enemy blob anymore no matter what formation you're in. It's all about watching for mistakes/cracks and capitalizing. > > You mean, out range, out dps in range, out kill in range them until they don't have as much people before going into melee to speed up their deaths when they could no longer put up a decent fight regardless? Or some kitten tag moves into a terrible spot that can't allow them to kite anymore? Far from just that. I won't deny that sometimes fights end up being who can out-haze the other guy and then clean up with melee. Far more common though is a clutch SB bubble placement with strong melee followup breaking the enemy's back and then both melee and range clean up. A well placed bubble with the requisite melee guard followup will end a fight in mere seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 WvW is actually really fun atm. You start with pirateship and bait out their bubbles and bombs. Then you push with melee train. It's actually balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyafuji.1340 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I also think its better than in the days of boonshare sustain melee train. It was all about stick as tight as possible, be tanky and run tanky/support build and keep spamming your rotation while rolling as tight as possible and nothing else. That was literally it, and when back then I decided to play differently people instantly shouted at me for that, even tho I played better than average, and now when the tides have turned and what Iv been digging back then works amazingly now, its the same people you see fail to adapt, fail to change their habbits and cry here about pirateship or condi or you name it. If you cannot defeat enemy that pirateships its you playing wrong and failing to adapt, not the game being wrong by not serving your playstyle. The game now combat wise is better than before the expansion. Sure it still needs tweaks and a lot at some places, but I don't want the melee sustain ball meta back. I find this one better. The game now is more rangy, but its not all the way, you still push to melee, you need to decide and move with more care and more brain based on whats happening, if the enemy got hit by bubble really bad maybe its time to jump in and finish them quickly. Half year ago I experienced blob vs blob fights where basically the groups went trough each other multiple times literally unable to kill each other until few minutes later one of the groups got bored/tired, lost focus and lost that way. Not that again pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 As long as you designate a role to your team, thus giving them meaning, you will be able to fight good. 1. coms 2. squad composition synergy 3. speed 4. sustain 5. coordinated execution of skills; you will be a cut above the a ayerage player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takatsu.9416 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Random thought, what might be interesting is if we could optionally target allies (i.e. up to 5) for skills that give boons, heals, cleanse. With that kind of control it might be possible to be more strategic and create focused wedges of frontliners or whatever variety that can power through with stacked support and ofc aoe, cc bombing or melee cleaves skills can still be used that don't need you to target enemies. It would probably mean a lot of tweaks to skills but I wonder how that might play out? It might provide more variety and controlled strategic counters and pushes. It would also expose certain classes who do not have the support focus which allows the enemy some control in trying to pick those off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xDudisx.5914 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 The problem is not even the condis, it is the mindless aoe spam that apply said condis. Scourge shade skills are low cd, insta cast, no annimation whatsoever. PD thief and PU mesmer have always been cheap skilless condi builds, but they have never become a big problem because most their skills is single target and has counters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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