qtfy's Power Deadeye build is the epitome of crappy.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > > > @"ArcanistSeven.8720" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > > > > @Asur.9178 said:

> > > > > > > > > Raid/cm comps provide 25 stacks of might without thief's presence. Assassins's Fury is a wasted trait, when you can gain 7% crit damage.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Raid/cm comps provide 100% quickness and alacrity without thief's presence. BQoBK synergies with PT.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Spider Venom shared with 5 people with 100% alacrity is a higher DPS than any other joke of a utility.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It doesn't matter how hard you try to defend it, because a fact is a fact, even if you choose not to believe it.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Deadeye is trash. Period!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Deadeye is trash to you. That is your opinion. Opinions mean nothing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > EDIT: Also, d/d conditions is meta for raids. Nothing else works in the thief repertoire, so whatever your justification is for that build is pointless.

> > > > > > > > EDIT2: 7% is great! Then you get hit! Now there is no 7%!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No Deadeye is trash its numbers and performance compared with other classes proves that. Deadeye is good in your opinion and as you said opinions mean nothing when compared to facts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So... where does player skill and style come into play here in these facts?

> > > > >

> > > > > Apparently, player skill is not important either as it doesn't factor into their equation. All builds are supposed to carry the player. XD

> > > >

> > > > Interesting, (as far as I understood) last time I said numbers aren't everything, you insisted that numbers are all that matter, because "the rest is just opinion and preferences"? :D

> > > > You can't just keep changing your stance depending on what currently fits your argument...

> > >

> > > I never said Deadeye was good, only that it provably isn't trash like some people want to believe. And since everyone who has been trashing the spec have not shown one iota of evidence to prove their statements, it can only be assumed that it is their baseless opinions.

> >

> > I didn't write you wrote it's good, are you answering to the right post?

> >

> > Also many people -me quite some time ago included- listed tons of problems with the spec and the rifle itself, saying all of that is "baseless opinon" is just trying to shut down anyone who thinks differently than you.

>

> Then what were you insinuating?

 

Exactly what I wrote, that one time you claim numbers are all that's needed to 'rate' a class and the other time you say that numbers aren't everything. There's literally nothing I wrote in that post that would claim that something is good or bad or that you said anything like that. Which part of that (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/309566/#Comment_309566 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/309566/#Comment_309566") couldn't you understand? (not trying to be 'mean' in any way, I just don't see what was confusing about that)

 

> Also I am not denying that the spec and the rifle could use some improvement, but flat out saying its trash is false. Just like you and the people who share your thoughts, I and the people who share my thoughts think that there really isn't that much of a problem with either of them. Could the DPS be a bit higher? Yes. Does the concept need to be redone? No. Is TRB a bad skill? Maybe.

>

> But when I make a statement I am prepared to prove it using concrete data. Math being one of them. I have yet to see that from the other side.

 

ok. :)

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Amineo.8951" said:

> Thief is trash everywhere except in High level PvP... And even then it's still very hard to play and unforgiving.

 

Does this mean that only skilled PvP thief ain't trash and that is only if they play in high level PvP game?

 

For all old dungeon path I'd still take at least 1 thief in my party if I'm not playing the said thief.

For WvW roaming I'd still prefer to take a thief, not that it's op but the dynamic of it's gameplay make it really strong in this area.

For low/mid level fractal I wouldn't mind a thief, they are still usefull there.

For raid, thief still have competitive dps (albeit not top tier) and can be pretty usefull if your party lack reactivity when it come to break the breakbar.

 

I, myself, am not really good at playing thief, it's far from being my main. However when I read your sentence I have at least the feeling that I'm better at it than you. The thief is very forgiving. For each new episode of the living story, I always do it first with my thief, because it's by far the profession with which I know that I'll struggle the least. When you understand and use properly it's mechanisms it allow you to breeze through PvE, have fun in WvW and be competitive in PvP. Thief, as a profession, is far from being trash.

[Zacchary.6183]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > > > > @"ArcanistSeven.8720" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Asur.9178 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Raid/cm comps provide 25 stacks of might without thief's presence. Assassins's Fury is a wasted trait, when you can gain 7% crit damage.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Raid/cm comps provide 100% quickness and alacrity without thief's presence. BQoBK synergies with PT.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Spider Venom shared with 5 people with 100% alacrity is a higher DPS than any other joke of a utility.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It doesn't matter how hard you try to defend it, because a fact is a fact, even if you choose not to believe it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Deadeye is trash. Period!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Deadeye is trash to you. That is your opinion. Opinions mean nothing.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > EDIT: Also, d/d conditions is meta for raids. Nothing else works in the thief repertoire, so whatever your justification is for that build is pointless.

> > > > > > > > > EDIT2: 7% is great! Then you get hit! Now there is no 7%!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No Deadeye is trash its numbers and performance compared with other classes proves that. Deadeye is good in your opinion and as you said opinions mean nothing when compared to facts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So... where does player skill and style come into play here in these facts?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Apparently, player skill is not important either as it doesn't factor into their equation. All builds are supposed to carry the player. XD

> > > > >

> > > > > Interesting, (as far as I understood) last time I said numbers aren't everything, you insisted that numbers are all that matter, because "the rest is just opinion and preferences"? :D

> > > > > You can't just keep changing your stance depending on what currently fits your argument...

> > > >

> > > > I never said Deadeye was good, only that it provably isn't trash like some people want to believe. And since everyone who has been trashing the spec have not shown one iota of evidence to prove their statements, it can only be assumed that it is their baseless opinions.

> > >

> > > I didn't write you wrote it's good, are you answering to the right post?

> > >

> > > Also many people -me quite some time ago included- listed tons of problems with the spec and the rifle itself, saying all of that is "baseless opinon" is just trying to shut down anyone who thinks differently than you.

> >

> > Then what were you insinuating?

>

> Exactly what I wrote, that one time you claim numbers are all that's needed to 'rate' a class and the other time you say that numbers aren't everything. There's literally nothing I wrote in that post that would claim that something is good or bad or that you said anything like that. Which part of that (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/309566/#Comment_309566 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/309566/#Comment_309566") couldn't you understand? (not trying to be 'mean' in any way, I just don't see what was confusing about that)

>

When did I say that?

EDIT: Are you talking about me just stating it was crappy? I already stated why I thought it was crappy in another comment because I had no clue how they though that setup would work. There is another d/d build on that site which is much more viable than their Power Deadeye. That power deadeye build should not even be listed because it is so lackluster.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Amineo.8951" said:

> > Thief is trash everywhere except in High level PvP... And even then it's still very hard to play and unforgiving.

>

> Does this mean that only skilled PvP thief ain't trash and that is only if they play in high level PvP game?

>

> For all old dungeon path I'd still take at least 1 thief in my party if I'm not playing the said thief.

> For WvW roaming I'd still prefer to take a thief, not that it's op but the dynamic of it's gameplay make it really strong in this area.

> For low/mid level fractal I wouldn't mind a thief, they are still usefull there.

> For raid, thief still have competitive dps (albeit not top tier) and can be pretty usefull if your party lack reactivity when it come to break the breakbar.

>

> I, myself, am not really good at playing thief, it's far from being my main. However when I read your sentence I have at least the feeling that I'm better at it than you. The thief is very forgiving. For each new episode of the living story, I always do it first with my thief, because it's by far the profession with which I know that I'll struggle the least. When you understand and use properly it's mechanisms it allow you to breeze through PvE, have fun in WvW and be competitive in PvP. Thief, as a profession, is far from being trash.

 

depends on what you need a class to be capable of to consider or even have fun playing it. if it is important for you that you are most efficient in your instanced pve/spvp/wvw, then you wont think thief to be of any use aside from pvp and roaming in WvW, because other classes will be 'better'. if you can live with lets say 2 second longer dungeon run or what ever, than thief might be a class that you enjoy playing. it just depends on what you expect and often its just about wich class is best on paper but in the hands of an average player it might be a completly diffrent story.

so according to qtfy tests deadeye might not be the best dps against a target golem but its still better to take a thief that can get close to that number in a dungeon/fractal/raid run than class/build X, in the hands of someone that cant get to 30% of the dps of their test.

so for people only looking to be efficient and comparing builds on paper or are able to actually do their perfect rotation(i dont think that is the majority of gw2 players), for them a thief might be 'trash'.

 

the only thing that i am not sure about that build is if mug is really doing more damage than dagger training, but that will be just a minor diffrence, while mug also helps to keep scholar and twin fangs bonus.

 

 

[Platanos.8107]

QT's build seems pretty legit. You don't take assassin's signet because it will take you over the crit cap.

 

You shouldn't be getting hit period. Any passive damage ticks should be healed back up to above 90% in less than half a second with signet of malice and healers/regen/auras. If you've played power thief at all, you would know that you pick Twin Fangs 100% of the time in any group, no matter how bad they are. If you aren't getting healed, or if you are just standing in bad, you slot in IP instead of NQ. If you disagree, then fine, you can swap traits, but you're going to swap rune sets too so you don't require anything that needs >90% hp.

 

Spider venom is probably the best. I've tried RFI + weaponswap animation cancel (get the initiative while not rolling backwards) , and it was about the same.

 

You can get Maleficient Seven instead of BQoBK if your mesmers are complete trash. Maleficient Seven with quickness is only very slightly worse than BQoBK with quickness I believe, but you're going to need to slot in the Agility signet. So you will lose the bonus damage from spider venom.

 

The build quantify uses expect the person to be in near optimal conditions, which means 100% quickness uptime where it matters, not standing in bad, no mechanic failures.

 

Tl;dr; staff thief is better that power deadeye period. Not reliant on the boss randomly bugging out and failing your backstab, mark can be hard to time with mechanics (e.g. deimos ouchy time), etc.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Platanos.8107" said:

> QT's build seems pretty legit. You don't take assassin's signet because it will take you over the crit cap.

>

> You shouldn't be getting hit period. Any passive damage ticks should be healed back up to above 90% in less than half a second with signet of malice and healers/regen/auras. If you've played power thief at all, you would know that you pick Twin Fangs 100% of the time in any group, no matter how bad they are. If you aren't getting healed, or if you are just standing in bad, you slot in IP instead of NQ. If you disagree, then fine, you can swap traits, but you're going to swap rune sets too so you don't require anything that needs >90% hp.

>

> Spider venom is probably the best. I've tried RFI + weaponswap animation cancel (get the initiative while not rolling backwards) , and it was about the same.

>

> You can get Maleficient Seven instead of BQoBK if your mesmers are complete trash. Maleficient Seven with quickness is only very slightly worse than BQoBK with quickness I believe, but you're going to need to slot in the Agility signet. So you will lose the bonus damage from spider venom.

>

> The build quantify uses expect the person to be in near optimal conditions, which means 100% quickness uptime where it matters, not standing in bad, no mechanic failures.

>

> Tl;dr; staff thief is better that power deadeye period. Not reliant on the boss randomly bugging out and failing your backstab, mark can be hard to time with mechanics (e.g. deimos ouchy time), etc.

 

Actually the staff rotation is way way way easier to mess up where the Deadeye one is basically fail-proof... and in actual raiding scenarios I hit more consistent numbers with the DE because I did something like forgot to de-target before using Weakening Charge, or the top down bugged on it slightly and didn't shorten WC, or I accidentally hit WC twice and messed the rotation that way, or I accidentally miss with Bounding Dodger damage strike, miss-timing Bound so that you don't get the full damage boost etc. etc. There are many many points of failure on the staff rotation, and only one on DE (backstab), in which case Dagger AUTO actually hits for more consistent DPS than Staff AUTO, and because of the incredibly overly simplified rotation of the D/D DE, yes I regularly sit well above the 20k DPS threshold even in bad groups, as someone (Kitty) above stated. I personally have a disability that makes the daredevil rotation, as easy as it technically is, almost impossible for me to accomplish on a moving target. I never hit the same numbers in an actual raiding environment as I do with DE.

 

Edit: It's also notable that the one or two scenarios where staff DD really shined, it was gaining a damage boost from blanket reveal combined with the trait Revealed Training. BLANKET REVEAL NO LONGER EXISTS IN RAIDS, and so staff DD loses the power boost from the trait most of the time, where DE who relies on going in to stealth and then revealing itself as part of the rotation actually does take advantage of the power boost with about 95% uptime. This actually helps push the DE to do higher DPS than the DD in a lot more cases than even before.

[DanScott.4839]

Quantify relevant in 2017? LUL