PvP Discussion: Rewards

[Aedaryl.3195]

Hello,

 

As a a new player, I think my feedback can be share from a unique perspective that still matter.

 

I think we need more ascended shards of glory, as a new player, having my ascended armor only by PvPing require too much time : I need at least 2-3 seasons to be full ascended in grieving stats, which is a lot of time when you look others possible ways to get an ascended armor.

 

Thank you for reading us.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

> @Zeroth.7046 said:

> Hey Ben,

>

> Thank you very much for your time answering questions and offering insights in PvP development and pipeline.

>

> I would like to point out some concerns of mine, hopefully you can take them in consideration in lieau of some discussions here:

>

> * I definitely would love to see a 2.5 armor set for PvP like you mentioned, but I would like to avoid having it tied to a very exclusive activity such as tournaments. The WvW sets are both rewarding *and* feasible for all WvW playstyles to different degrees, whereas locking such skins to tournaments would greatly limit their access (speciially when it's not uncommon for the same people to be in the top positions of tournaments). I would like to see something more feasible to players who have enough time on PvP, like something perhaps tied to rank and normal season participation. This offers a time lock rather than a skill lock, which I find more rewarding towards players invested in the mode.

 

> * When we talk about rewards, I think it's important to branch out of ranked, where I feel there are already a number of solid rewards. Unranked is a valid mode too, and I would like to see more progress for playing pvp itself.

 

We're planning 2 tiers of the 2.5 set. One for Leagues and one for top 4 monthly tournament placements. I do think it's valid criticism that we haven't put out much for unranked. I do feel ranked should always be more rewarding, but we could do a bit more for unranked.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @Rym.1469 said:

> > Hey Ben,

> >

> > Since you've already crossed out mount skins as rewards, I'll just chime in and say that end of season rewards, based on final Division (Plat 3 for example) would be appreciated. Not necessarily anything ridiculous, some gems, gold or such things maybe. I was thinking that players ending up in Legendary division could receive one unique piece of armor/part of a weapon per season in Legend, completing the set as seasons roll along. Wouldn't tie this to leaderboard position though, with current wintrading controversies.

>

> We've talked about adding more to the end of season rewards. It's actually a UI issue in addition to a rewards issue. The UI wasn't designed to display more than the title you get at the end. Which already makes it weird, since high leaderboard people now get passes to the VIP lobby, but that's not displayed anymore.

>

> Not basing it on leaderboard position also makes this difficult. Theoretically, someone could play just a handful of games, get a high rating, and then never play again and wait for their end of season reward.

 

Hey Ben,

 

I understand basing it on the leaderboard position is necessary from a play a little get reward perspective, but I think the what is meant by not basing it on the leaderboard position, means basically extending the end of season rewards way beyond the top 250.

 

Altenatively, (And I dunno how possible that is) additional possible conditions to be both eligible for the leaderboard (played the appropriate amount of games), and then get a reward based on the division you're in. I don't think anyone wants division rewards to be about playing a little, getting a high rating but still getting that division reward. Or even then, I don't think I mind having division rewards which are very minimal because you can just play your placement matches, or even better, scale the rewards to the amount of games played where being leaderboard eligible is the max amount (though that can get difficult to balance)

 

Additionally, while I do understand rewarding league play the most, off-season is very unpopular (feeling to me anyway), and barely rewarded at all. I find myself extremely discouraged to even care about rating when the league is not up, which then I find it hard to get back into PvP after that. Personally I would prefer leagues back to back, as that just would really be the only time to work on climbing the ladder. Or having something that also rewards me for playing off season. I don't mind if that's not exactly the same reward as within league, but it could be nice to not have everything meaningful come to a halt to then basically stop playing PvP because it's only for dailies, reward tracks and perhaps tournaments (though I havent done those).

 

I suppose immaterial rewards, like not needing to play your placement matches the next season (I find it very annoying at least to do that EVERY season) Or keeping your division badge or a title for division could also be considered.

[corey.6451]

Can you add colours code for the current rank titles.

[Kapax.3801]

Two new reward routes:

**Fractal reward route**

3 chests that have rewards from T1 to T3

Final Chest, rewards of T4 and a weapon of fractals (of the normal ones) to choose from. Repeat once a week.

 

And here many will jump to the jugular.

**Raid reward route**

repeatable once a week, that each week is from a different wing (of the 5 that there is currently)

The reward can be items of the raids and coins of the same.

The final chest instead of containing clovers, could have 2 Legendary Insights.

 

More dungeon reward routes available, at least 3 or 4 every 2 weeks.

[Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.32]

> @Kapax.3801 said:

> Two new reward routes:

> **Fractal reward route**

> 3 chests that have rewards from T1 to T3

> Final Chest, rewards of T4 and a weapon of fractals (of the normal ones) to choose from. Repeat once a week.

>

> And here many will jump to the jugular.

> **Raid reward route**

> repeatable once a week, that each week is from a different wing (of the 5 that there is currently)

> The reward can be items of the raids and coins of the same.

> The final chest instead of containing clovers, could have 2 Legendary Insights.

>

> More dungeon reward routes available, at least 3 or 4 every 2 weeks.

 

I really, really don't think that's a good thing for the game. I wouldn't want raiders to get Ardent Glorious or Sublime Mistforged (or one of these newly-mentioned Obsidian weapons) for killing one of their bosses.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

 

> @Kapax.3801 said:

> Two new reward routes:

> **Fractal reward route**

> 3 chests that have rewards from T1 to T3

> Final Chest, rewards of T4 and a weapon of fractals (of the normal ones) to choose from. Repeat once a week.

>

> And here many will jump to the jugular.

> **Raid reward route**

> repeatable once a week, that each week is from a different wing (of the 5 that there is currently)

> The reward can be items of the raids and coins of the same.

> The final chest instead of containing clovers, could have 2 Legendary Insights.

>

> More dungeon reward routes available, at least 3 or 4 every 2 weeks.

 

I don't think we'll be taking rewards from other game modes. There is a lot of value of different game modes getting some unique rewards.

[Aeroxe.8140]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @Zeroth.7046 said:

> > Hey Ben,

> >

> > Thank you very much for your time answering questions and offering insights in PvP development and pipeline.

> >

> > I would like to point out some concerns of mine, hopefully you can take them in consideration in lieau of some discussions here:

> >

> > * I definitely would love to see a 2.5 armor set for PvP like you mentioned, but I would like to avoid having it tied to a very exclusive activity such as tournaments. The WvW sets are both rewarding *and* feasible for all WvW playstyles to different degrees, whereas locking such skins to tournaments would greatly limit their access (speciially when it's not uncommon for the same people to be in the top positions of tournaments). I would like to see something more feasible to players who have enough time on PvP, like something perhaps tied to rank and normal season participation. This offers a time lock rather than a skill lock, which I find more rewarding towards players invested in the mode.

>

> > * When we talk about rewards, I think it's important to branch out of ranked, where I feel there are already a number of solid rewards. Unranked is a valid mode too, and I would like to see more progress for playing pvp itself.

>

> We're planning 2 tiers of the 2.5 set. One for Leagues and one for top 4 monthly tournament placements. I do think it's valid criticism that we haven't put out much for unranked. I do feel ranked should always be more rewarding, but we could do a bit more for unranked.

 

I am not sure if this is response to my previous post, but I would encourage you to, if you have not, read my post above and perhaps make a specific response to it. I think I am speaking on behalf of a many players.

 

I am going to address your concerns regarding shifting rewards to unranked mode. I think it's valid to go forward in a bottom-up approach, but I think that especially in a competitive setting, a top-down mindset may address several issues, that being population and incentive to improve. Incentivizing unranked is also only a temporary solution to bringing in players that are likely to pvp for only the rewards, rather than become part of the PvP community.

 

Currently, there is a large gap between those in the "top-tier" competitive scene and those who play PvP casually. A lot of this exists with the lack of tutorials (which is a separate issues altogether but anyways), but more than that, is the question "why should I be there and invest my time?". The automated tournaments have brought some sustainability to the competitive scene, but it is short-lived where many players only login to play in the monthly in the last week. The leaderboards are currently thought of as a trainwreck and incredible, as the solid PvP community is so low that a lot of it is owed to chance. The biggest issue currently then, is to bring in more players who will form the foundation that the PvP community needs. In my opinion, rewards is probably the most feasible and straightforward way to bring in players who decide to invest time instead of lets say raiding or doing dungeons, and oddly enough, finding themselves enjoying the game mode as they improve.

 

 

[Zeroth.7046]

> @Aeroxe.8140 said:

>

> I am not sure if this is response to my previous post, but I would encourage you to, if you have not, read my post above and perhaps make a specific response to it. I think I am speaking on behalf of a many players.

>

> I am going to address your concerns regarding shifting rewards to unranked mode. I think it's valid to go forward in a bottom-up approach, but I think that especially in a competitive setting, a top-down mindset may address several issues, that being population and incentive to improve. Incentivizing unranked is also only a temporary solution to bringing in players that are likely to pvp for only the rewards, rather than become part of the PvP community.

>

> Currently, there is a large gap between those in the "top-tier" competitive scene and those who play PvP casually. A lot of this exists with the lack of tutorials (which is a separate issues altogether but anyways), but more than that, is the question "why should I be there and invest my time?". The automated tournaments have brought some sustainability to the competitive scene, but it is short-lived where many players only login to play in the monthly in the last week. The leaderboards are currently thought of as a trainwreck and incredible, as the solid PvP community is so low that a lot of it is owed to chance. The biggest issue currently then, is to bring in more players who will form the foundation that the PvP community needs. In my opinion, rewards is probably the most feasible and straightforward way to bring in players who decide to invest time instead of lets say raiding or doing dungeons, and oddly enough, finding themselves enjoying the game mode as they improve.

>

>

 

I don't think a structure that rewards the top 250 or so players is a good way to retain players. I'd argue that it's far more of a deterrent, because rewards tied to such close spots will be beyond 99% of the new players who would join in your scenario.

 

Rewards more evenly distributed among the different PvP ranks are far more constructive toward building a player base than rewarding the top 0.1% of the game mode.

 

You brought up a concern that unranked rewards would not integrate players with the community, but I think you are viewing two different topics here: player retention, and rewards for skilled players. I think these issues are separate, not intrinsic, as your suggestion gives the impression of, because ultimately a way to retain players is through long term rewards, and something tied to the top X of the thousands of players is not a feasible long term reward for players.

 

Let's pick Raids as an example, since their reward structure is one of the most solid ones in the game: Players are not rewarded for how fast they clear bosses, but for how consistently they do so. In that line, PvP should reward playing well consistently, and not being in the top 0.X% of players, for that is not a tangible goal for most players. Leagues, in that sense, fill that role, and if improvements are made in that sense, they should aim that.

[Ashyri.5426]

**Remove pip rewards for defeats from ranked match during the seasons.**

This will end afk/botting pips farming, people actually have to play to in order to win the game. Also it might increase the match quality on low tiers and newcomers to pvp might actually enjoy and learn enough of it to stay playing PvP.

[lightningz.1465]

Is there any Chance for end of season reward beyond top 250, based on division ended. I'm ok if the reward is just gold, tickets, or ascended shard if it's too hardto make it pvp specific. This will encourage people outside top 250 to try hard until end of season.

[Kuya.6495]

Probably a good way to make off league season less stale is by doing small events like unlocking special reward tracks that are only available for a limited time. that way there is something to look forward to in off season.

[Ivantreil.3092]

> @Ashyri.5426 said:

> **Remove pip rewards for defeats from ranked match during the seasons.**

> This will end afk/botting pips farming, people actually have to play to in order to win the game. Also it might increase the match quality on low tiers and newcomers to pvp might actually enjoy and learn enough of it to stay playing PvP.

 

If the amount of pips won by winning is increased, i could totally support this, otherwise you are stuck with the possibility of a big loop due to a bad day of loss streaks.

[Ivantreil.3092]

> @lightningz.1465 said:

> Is there any Chance for end of season reward beyond top 250, based on division ended. I'm ok if the reward is just gold, tickets, or ascended shard if it's too hardto make it pvp specific. This will encourage people outside top 250 to try hard until end of season.

 

This!, i would love to see increased money rewards at the end of the season.

Or maybe chests that gives materials at the end of it, depending of how well you did perform each season.

[Ivantreil.3092]

What about create a converter for ascended shards? a converter that allows you to convert your ascended shards into random materials after playing "x" amount of matches.

[Keesh.5689]

Okay I know how everyone said they hates Llamas and everything..... but is there a possibility..... we can maybe.... get a Llama reskin for the raptor or bunny mount. Obviously only for the best players. Although every other game type would probably complain

[Dropdown.7460]

One thing about rewards: all rewards should be obtainable by playing the game, like doing a reward track. If you want to keep the titles as special prizes for winning ATs and Ranked, so be it, but as of now there is too much cheating and match manipulation to give everyone a fair shot. Not to mention gating these rewards behind placement means only a select few will ever see those skins/rewards. Honestly, if you did this, I would probably stop playing PvP all together. As it is now, I win some, I lose some, but in the end I can walk away with *something* for my time and effort and I can continue to work toward a goal.

 

Something not resource intensive: Crafting material rewards would be nice, giving pvp players another option other than pve or wvw in order to craft exotic/ascended items.

 

Also a question: I have crafted 3 legendary pieces of pvp armor so far; will this new enhanced version (skins) be available for a reasonable cost for those who already invested the time and effort for the current set (aka discount or requiring less materials)?

[Rennie.6750]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @ArthurDent.9538 said:

> > Can we get at least some PvP league tickets on repeat Byzantium chests. The time-gate for them is extremely harsh for example a single mini Lavish Llama requires at least 3 seasons and doesn't even include the precursor llamas. The tickets are useful for lots of other things as well like the legendary armor but it literally takes years to get them all because of the time-gates.

>

> It's not off the table. But it would probably be a pretty low number. There aren't a lot of things to spend them on besides legendaries and Llamas and I want to avoid going the way of shards of glory where people have bucket loads.

 

The problem i see is that shards of glory are basically worthless because there's nothing you can buy with this currency alone. It's always shards of glory + something else, except in very specific cases, but then they're one time things. I know you may be reluctant to put something cool to buy for shards of glory only but it works fine for fractals for instance. We're swimming in fractal relics and they're never worthless because there's always some cool stuff to buy with that now.

[Rennie.6750]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @Rym.1469 said:

> > Hey Ben,

> >

> > Since you've already crossed out mount skins as rewards, I'll just chime in and say that end of season rewards, based on final Division (Plat 3 for example) would be appreciated. Not necessarily anything ridiculous, some gems, gold or such things maybe. I was thinking that players ending up in Legendary division could receive one unique piece of armor/part of a weapon per season in Legend, completing the set as seasons roll along. Wouldn't tie this to leaderboard position though, with current wintrading controversies.

>

> We've talked about adding more to the end of season rewards. It's actually a UI issue in addition to a rewards issue. The UI wasn't designed to display more than the title you get at the end. Which already makes it weird, since high leaderboard people now get passes to the VIP lobby, but that's not displayed anymore.

>

> Not basing it on leaderboard position also makes this difficult. Theoretically, someone could play just a handful of games, get a high rating, and then never play again and wait for their end of season reward.

 

I'd say it's a terrible idea, you're going to create a lot of situations where the risk averse part of our brains is going to prevent us from enjoying PvP. A lot of us are going to freak out at the idea of losing ranks and right now the lack of tiered division rewards means that there's 0 pressure not to play any non safe matches. It's going to bring a lot of unneeded toxicity and is not worth it imo, but it's up to you. At best you could introduce tiered rewards for how many games you played during season but pips do cover that to some extent so I don't know.

 

With that you're potentially killing trying out new professions (standard mode rewards are a joke and doesn't deserve to be played, let's be real here), playing at unusual hours with a weirder MM, trying new builds, playing with less skilled friends, and so on. Risk aversion is a real thing and it's a very, very strong part of our psychology. That's what marketing and casinos use to manipulate us.

[Majirah.5089]

> @Ashyri.5426 said:

> **Remove pip rewards for defeats from ranked match during the seasons.**

> This will end afk/botting pips farming, people actually have to play to in order to win the game. Also it might increase the match quality on low tiers and newcomers to pvp might actually enjoy and learn enough of it to stay playing PvP.

 

I disagree with this. It may effect the afk rate of players, but it will alienate people who are trying, but end up with loss streaks. Those people will eventually quit playing the mode. I think that is a much more likely outcome with your suggestion.

 

I don’t agree with the only reward those who win or only reward top players mindset. It’s only good for a small portion of the player base (especially if the only good rewards are for the top players). Some players just aren’t as good as others. So they will lose more often even if they are putting in as much effort as they can. If they aren’t rewarded at all they will likely quit the mode. This the population will diminish. Having a low population is a huge problem.

 

I’m not against having the best rewards or the coolest skins locked behind winning a lot, but those who lose should be rewarded enough to keep on playing the mode. Both sides should be happy with pvp. If both sides aren’t then the population dies. I have gotten better each season, but I still have loss streaks that make me just want to give up on the season. But I don’t because I’m at least getting something.

 

One “reward” I would like is for the victory screen to be removed and put it back to how it used to be.

[Keyba.9570]

I just hope that these obsidion weapons require alot of work to get so that the communities can see who is dedicated to PvP just like legendary armor for raiders

[LucusAurelius.9820]

**Proofs/Testimonies of Heroics** add it to the daily chest, replace some areas where tomes of knowledge are used. However you can do it please get this in there. The majority of us have stacks of Tomes but could desperately use hero points. That would be such a big motivator for people with alts they want to get new elite specs on.

[Keyba.9570]

A PvP style currency like glory would be nice to have as well. I miss the exclusivity of having a pvp.based currency

[Rennie.6750]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

>

> > @Kapax.3801 said:

> > Two new reward routes:

> > **Fractal reward route**

> > 3 chests that have rewards from T1 to T3

> > Final Chest, rewards of T4 and a weapon of fractals (of the normal ones) to choose from. Repeat once a week.

> >

> > And here many will jump to the jugular.

> > **Raid reward route**

> > repeatable once a week, that each week is from a different wing (of the 5 that there is currently)

> > The reward can be items of the raids and coins of the same.

> > The final chest instead of containing clovers, could have 2 Legendary Insights.

> >

> > More dungeon reward routes available, at least 3 or 4 every 2 weeks.

>

> I don't think we'll be taking rewards from other game modes. There is a lot of value of different game modes getting some unique rewards.

 

That's a bit far-fetched, you're doing this already for open world, effectively ripping it off its "unique" rewards already. Raid skins would be a logical step in that direction, if that's the one you want to take. I don't see why it's ok to strip open world from potential rewards and put raids off-limits, it's a game mode dedicated pvp players probably don't enjoy anyway so it's not hurting the game at all.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

Remove the ascended and legendary rewards. All they do is attract PvE and WvW pip farmers. PvPers don't need them. Add more unique PvP rewards that are skins. perhaps one set for each season. There's a lot that could be open to imagination here. Passes to the exclusive areas of the lobby, for example.